From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #193 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, August 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 193 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] I'll be... [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] I'll be... [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [LeftyZ@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Tape swap review [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Tape swap review [Elizabeth Setler ] [loud-fans] WOW!!! TOTALLY COOL!!! [bbradley@namesecure.com] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] "Grease" is JUST the word ["Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I'll be... On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Dan McCarthy wrote: > Hey, be fair. I know of at least one other song title that consists > of only a letter (The Cure's "M.") and it ain't so bad. Bizarrely, three of the five one-letter titles in my collection are "B" (Snuff, Sunscreem and Colin Newman). Median song title length is 14 characters, the mode is 12 and the mean is about 17. But, uh, isn't a song called "W" probably about the US's current philosopher king? a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:40:38 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I'll be... >But, uh, isn't a song called "W" probably about the US's current >philosopher king? Maybe it's a cover of the Van der Graaf Generator song. Or maybe not. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:43:30 EDT From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough << On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, John Cooper wrote: > Susan Stamberg of NPR's All Things Considered refers every afternoon > to the Dow Jones "Industrals". >> I only WISH that Susan Stamberg was on ATC every day. ( : ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:17:31 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape swap review At 06:33 PM 8/10/01 -0400, Jason Long wrote: >Stewart wrote quite a while ago: >>"Deceptacon" -- Le Tigre >> >>Kathleen Hanna's post-Bikini Kill project, which I hadn't heard. I hadn't >>expected this to sound so completely retro, as if it came out on Rough >>Trade in 1980. Actually, it sounds like she's ripping off the Rondelles. > >I don't think I've heard anything by the Rondelles, but if they sound >anything like this, I'm definitely interested. More info, please? They used to be from Albuquerque (I produced the final sessions for their side project, LuxoChamp, but that group broke up before they were released) and are now based in Washington DC. Juliet and Yukiko sing and play guitar and bass, respectively, and Oakley plays drums and keyboards at the same time by hitting the keyboards with one of his drumsticks, which works much better than you might expect. They've had several records out on various indies and they sound like they've only ever listened to synth pop and new wave their whole lives. The band's been together for about six years now and they're still just barely old enough to drink. > >>"Weakened State" -- Sarah Harmer >> >>I swear this name sounds familiar, but I know I don't have this. Did she >>used to be in a band or something? This is really good, though--reminds me >>of Merrie Amsterburg a bit, or maybe Jen Trynin. > >She used to be in the Canadian band Weeping Tile. I don't know as much >about them as I should, but I'm sure there are others on the list (Jer? >Andrea?) who might be able to tell you more. _You Were Here_, the solo disc >this song is from, was my introduction to her work and was among my >favorite albums of last year. If you like this song, you'd probably enjoy >the album. I'll find out for myself tomorrow night, as she's opening for the Barenaked Ladies at the show I had forgotten I was going to until my friend Lea reminded me last night. S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:47:02 -0700 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape swap review At 6:33 PM -0400 8/10/01, Jason Long wrote: >>"Meaningless" -- Jon Brion >> >>I know I really like him, I don't know why I haven't bothered to pick up >>this album yet. This is one of my favorite songs on the disc. > >The entire album is great; it actually took me a while to decide on >just one song to include on the mix. "Gotta Start Somewhere" and "I >Believe She's Lying" would have been strong contenders as well. >There's also a good cover of Cheap Trick's "Voices" that closes the >album. > >I'm not sure if this album has gained retail distribution yet, or if >it's still only available through his Artist Direct site. Either >way, it is worth tracking down. At the store I'm working in at least, it's in our distributor's database, which means you should be able to special order it (although I've never actually tried). Apparently Artist Direct has decided to spruce up the website by making an interactive game out of it, so that of the many links you can click that say "Buy the CD," only one will take you to a place where you can buy the CD. Ooh, wait, I take that back - I just checked again and that one doesn't work either now. Yeah, you might try that special order thing. - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:02:46 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough The short, off-the-top-of-my head list: Their/they're/there (and incorrect uses thereof) Supposably (IT'S SUPPOSEDLY, DAMMIT!) Access. The word is a noun, people, not a verb. I suppose I've lost this round, though, since the sheer amount of misuse has created a new standard. Probably likewise with "nauseous". I concur with whomever voiced that particular pet peeve. Nuclear. It is pronounced "noo-klee-ar" (or perhaps "noo-klay-ar"?), certainly not "noo-kyoo-lar". As there is no vowel between the 'c' and the 'l', one should progress directly FROM the 'c' TO the 'l'. As for the word "literally" used to mean "figuratively", it's interesting you should mention it, since I was just snickering at this review quote on the back of the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" video box at the video store where I work: '"...the film ends with the single most horrifying frame in movies, which literally curdles your blood and makes your hair stand on end." (Newhouse)' My god! Literally curdles the blood! How did the viewing public survive such a deadly onslaught?!?! - -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:28:04 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: [loud-fans] WOW!!! TOTALLY COOL!!! if you're a geek, like me, you'll love this. you can track satellites with it, and see where the stars are going to be (or rather, where they are right now - haven't figured out how to get it to tell me about tomorrow night yet) and see hte earth from the moon or sun. http://www.fourmilab.ch/homeplanet/ KICK-ASS!!!!! - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:46:52 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough Access. The word is a noun, people, not a verb. I suppose I've lost this round, though, since the sheer amount of misuse has created a new standard. Probably likewise with "nauseous". I concur with whomever voiced that particular pet peeve. >>>>>>>>>> Sorry, all nouns were declared honorary verbs several years ago. My friend from agency.com (who would love to architect solutions to your problems, if they don't go out of business first) told me so. Since the tendency is for languages to simplify, and for context to increase in importance, I assume that the logical end is a Borges-ian language consisting of a single word that can assume all possible meanings, depending on context. Does anyone remember the Flintstones episode (have I mentioned this before?) where they buy a boat and Fred wants to call it something like "Nautical Princess" and Barny wants to call it "Sea Princess" or something like that, so they compromise and use the first three letters of each name. Hee hee. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:08:14 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough >>Access. The word is a noun, people, not a verb. >Sorry, all nouns were declared honorary verbs several years ago. I know Dana's kidding, but in fact making nouns from verbs is completely common and acceptable (e.g., ace, baby, clock, dog, etc.). If the result has no clearly superior synonym, as in the case of "access," what's the problem? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:34:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough It's not linguistic, but in the wake of the title for _Star Wars Episode II_ and insane "scientists": People who imagine cloning is like duplicating adult humans. Grrr. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat ::everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum ::temporo-spatial anomaly. __Crow T. Maslow__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:49:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] Re: condiment boy attacks again On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > > > > > okay, can I put in a vote for "decimate?" which, as it's similarity to > > > "decimal" suggests, means "to take a tenth of or from" (specifically, > > > usually, killing every tenth member of a population). > > > > And the reason the word's meaning can't be extended metaphorically, like > > those of many other words in the language? > drinksh! to use a term with a concrete, specific meaning in a more > general sense (for which there are already other words) seems to me to be > a net loss of meaning and nuance for the language. If I were to say that > "my year's income has been nearly tri-decimated by the Revenue Service," > that statement would be more ambiguous and less clear now than it would > have been a couple of generations ago. Well, except that one reason the word's meaning has broadened (and become overassed?) is that it's very rare for anything these days to be literally decimated (and I mean literally literally). So the original, narrow meaning of the word no longer gets much call to be used - thus the broadening of definition, to provide yet another entry in the pool of synonyms sportswriters use to describe overwhelming defeats. Seriously, one of the great strengths of English is that, because of its promiscuous history, it has generally more synonyms available, each of which has its own little set of special nuances. "Decimate" is more serious than, say, "ruined," but, I think, less serious than "annihilate" (and hey, if we're being literalists, Hiroshima was not "annihilated" by the H-bomb - there was *something* left). Trivia time: what song title was used by the Beatles, the Who, and the Kinks - three different songs, same title? (Hint: there's a Rolling Stones bootleg listing a song of the same title - although whether it's *their* song or a cover of one of the other three, I don't know. Although I'd like to...) Prizes? I don't have no steekin' prizes... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Time provides the rope, but love will tie the slipknot, ::and I will be the chair you kick away. __Stephin Merritt__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:18:49 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough Dan McCarthy wrote: > > Supposably (IT'S SUPPOSEDLY, DAMMIT!) AARRGGHHH.... the cringe alarm went off when I saw this one, as it immediately brought to mind one of my serious peeves- "prolly." It's probably, dammit! Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:59:45 -0400 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough aloha means goodbye and also hello it's in how you inflect > Since the tendency is for languages to simplify, and for context to > increase in importance, I assume that the logical end is a Borges-ian > language consisting of a single word that can assume all possible > meanings, depending on context. Powered by the E-mail PIM - Info Select - www.miclog.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:15:13 -0300 From: John F Butland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough At 08:46 PM 01-08-10 -0400, Dana L Paoli wrote: >Sorry, all nouns were declared honorary verbs several years ago. I think this concept was best stated by one of the greatest minds of the 20th Century: "Verbing weirds nouns." - Calvin (to Hobbes, I think) best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: condiment boy attacks again On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Trivia time: what song title was used by the Beatles, the Who, and the > Kinks - three different songs, same title? (Hint: there's a Rolling Stones > bootleg listing a song of the same title - although whether it's *their* > song or a cover of one of the other three, I don't know. Although I'd like > to...) "I Need You", also by Billy Squier. Language is a (computer) virus, J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:27:49 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] On Your List I saw Joe Henry live a few nights ago and strongly encourage y'all to check him out if he's in town. Oddly enough, he barely touched the new album, but focused instead on Trampoline and Fuse material. It's an amazing band, too--just a rhythm section and a piano player (Henry played guitar), but they managed to capture all of the weird, tangled glory of those albums. Reminded me a lot of that first Curtis Mayfield live album where a small band does stellar versions of otherwise pretty elaborate tunes. Good stuff. And damn if Henry's not one of the most exciting lyricists around. I'm a real lyrics junkie, and Henry's been near the top of my list for years. The new Graeme Downes album, Hammers and Anvils, is really fantastic, too. It's pretty odd--home demos that somehow got fleshed out a bit and ended being an album. Some of the songs seem a little half baked, but even half baked Downes is brilliant. The sound is really raw and stripped down--it reminds me more of Some Disenchanted Evening rather than any of the last three Verlaines albums (although a few wouldn't have been out of place on Over The Moon.) Those who know me know I consider Downes second only to Our Scott in the "greatest songwriter ever" category, and this odd little snapshot record shows the muse hasn't departed. If you don't know Downes at all, I highly recommend The Verlaines' Way Out Where (usually a bargain in the used bins) or Bird Dog (still in print on Flying Nun.) verlaineveerlaineverlaineverlaineverlaineverlaineverlainevalerinae verl-ay-aine, B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:37:05 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] "Grease" is JUST the word I was going to avoid this language thread because it's grating on me, but I have to say that if you're "nauseated" it's not unlikely that you're "nauseous", too, eh? It's a good third grade chain reaction anyhow. I'm reminded of an article my friend Ian and I read in Austin last year. The author was traveling to visit a castle in England somewhere and wrote something like: "We're traveling along such-and-such highway towards such-and-such castle. In reality, we're traveling through time, back to an age of knights and kings and, etc." Ian and I were amazed! In reality, this author was traveling through time! It's become our favorite reoccurring joke to talk about completely imaginary experiences as being "in reality". Now stop whining and talk about music, B NP Poppy Family (I love them, too. And I think "Seasons in the Sun" is fine. Especially the Black Box Recorder version. But maybe someday in the future some twenty-something year old kid will tell me "Who Let The Dogs Out" is fine, too, and I'll be nauseated.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:01:14 -0400 From: timv@triad.rr.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On 10 Aug 2001, at 20:46, Dana L Paoli wrote: > Sorry, all nouns were declared honorary verbs several years ago. My > friend from agency.com (who would love to architect solutions to your > problems, if they don't go out of business first) told me so. There's another one for me. When architects describe what they do, they'll almost always say "design," or occasionally "draw." Other professions, in attempting to identify themselves with architects, are actually drawing attention to their own presumption by using that silly term. Same thing goes for "engineer" for that matter. > Since the tendency is for languages to simplify, and for context to > increase in importance, I assume that the logical end is a Borges-ian > language consisting of a single word that can assume all possible > meanings, depending on context. I guess you never watched _The Smurfs_, Dana. "Smurf" could have any meaning and function as any part of speech in Smurf-land. Smurf ya later, Tim Victor timv@triad.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:01:14 -0400 From: timv@triad.rr.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On 10 Aug 2001, at 10:12, Steve Holtebeck wrote: > One of my pet peeves is substituting "point" for "dot", or vice versa. > I learned that "point" should only be used as a numerical delimeter > (decimal points: "3-point-1-4-1" or radio stations: "107-point-7" > maybe even IP addresses), ESPN baseball announcers Jon Miller and Joe Morgan say that they've switched over to saying "punto com" exclusively after hearing in-game promos for ESPN Espanol. I like that! I once sat in a conference room with a North Carolina furniture plant manager and a well-education consultant, who took turns saying "fusstrated" and "flustrated". The plant maintenance supervisor, a New York native, who'd been paged to the meeting overheard this as he walked in the room and said, with great emphasis on the word, "Nobody's gonna get frustrated about anything." Another southern specialty: the state of "Massa-TOO-setts". This seems to be a favorite of high-minded souls like ministers and school teachers. I can only guess that they're trying to avoid what they assume to be a lazy "ch" sound in words like "mature," "furniture," or "literature." But the name of the state really does have the letters "ch" in it. When was the last time you heard someone use the term "deja vu" to refer to the sensation of something seeming to be familiar when you know that you haven't experienced it before? Hey, it was clever the first dozen or so times someone said "it's deja vu" at something that they really had seen before. Now it's just dumb. (My French isn't very good, but I think that it literally just means "seen before.") For that matter, are there only "blessings in disguise" these days? Can't anything ever be just a blessing any more? Choosy programmers choose "jif," Tim Victor timv@triad.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:01:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: condiment boy attacks again On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > Trivia time: what song title was used by the Beatles, the Who, and the > > Kinks - three different songs, same title? (Hint: there's a Rolling Stones > > bootleg listing a song of the same title - although whether it's *their* > > song or a cover of one of the other three, I don't know. Although I'd like > > to...) > > "I Need You", also by Billy Squier. Ding-ding-ding! And also by America! (and a whole bunch o' others). Anyone know whose song the Stones did? It's on a bootleg that showed up when I ran the song title through www.allmusic.com. I should have known Joe would get this... - -j ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 timv@triad.rr.com wrote: > I once sat in a conference room with a North Carolina furniture > plant manager and a well-education consultant, who took turns > saying "fusstrated" and "flustrated". The plant maintenance > supervisor, a New York native, who'd been paged to the meeting > overheard this as he walked in the room and said, with great > emphasis on the word, "Nobody's gonna get frustrated about > anything." But "flustrated" is wonderful - "flustered" plus "frustrated." Or maybe it's "flustered" plus "castrated." Or would that be minus? > For that matter, are there only "blessings in disguise" these > days? Can't anything ever be just a blessing any more? The name is Mike, and he wears a wool cap. (That one goes out to John Sharples.) I had another non-linguistic pet peeve come to mind earlier today, but I've forgotten it. It had nothing to do with Suzuki Swifts. There are a number of words that seem to occur only as parts of particular phrases - one example might be "twiddle," as in "twiddle one's thumbs." What else does anyone ever twiddle? No, Mr. Cartman, I'm not going to call on you. Is there a name for the curious linguistic phenomenon on display in the way most people pronounce the names of things like "Madison Square Garden" or "Empire State Building"? (Or "Electric Light Orchestra"...) In each case, the first two components were already established phrases, and in fact were the source of the longer names (Madison Square, the Empire State - - an electric light), yet generally people pronounce the phrases as if they're referring to a square garden named after Madison(*), or a state building named "Empire," or a "light orchestra" (whatever the hell that is) that happens to be electric. (*) THus the visual gag on _Futurama_ in which an event takes place at a venue whose sign reads MADISON CUBE GARDEN. No one should ever give me work to do - or I will delay doing it in posting irrelevantly to the list. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Time provides the rope, but love will tie the slipknot, ::and I will be the chair you kick away. __Stephin Merritt__ np: Paula Carino _Aquacade_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:44:04 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: condiment boy attacks again Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > > Trivia time: what song title was used by the Beatles, the Who, and the > > > Kinks - three different songs, same title? (Hint: there's a Rolling Stones > > > bootleg listing a song of the same title - although whether it's *their* > > > song or a cover of one of the other three, I don't know. Although I'd like > > > to...) > > > > "I Need You", also by Billy Squier. > > Ding-ding-ding! And also by America! (and a whole bunch o' others). Anyone > know whose song the Stones did? It's on a bootleg that showed up when I > ran the song title through www.allmusic.com. If it's on a bootleg, it could be their cover of Bo Diddley's "Mona", which is sometimes incorrectly listed (like on ROLLING STONES NOW!) "I Need You Baby". One of my major pet peeves is bootleg albums with incorrect song titles! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:03:57 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough > np: Paula Carino _Aquacade_ Best thing I've heard so far this year by a good distance.... This White Stripes album I just heard sounds interesting on first listen, though. Anyone familiar with them? - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:10:26 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: condiment boy attacks again > > > > okay, can I put in a vote for "decimate?" which, as it's similarity to > > > > "decimal" suggests, means "to take a tenth of or from" (specifically, > > > > usually, killing every tenth member of a population). > Well, except that one reason the word's meaning has broadened (and become > overassed?) is that it's very rare for anything these days to be literally > decimated (and I mean literally literally). So the original, narrow > meaning of the word no longer gets much call to be used - thus the > broadening of definition, to provide yet another entry in the pool of > synonyms sportswriters use to describe overwhelming defeats. It's useful to have the word around to mean "reduced by 10%," even if one isn't referring to Roman army policies. It's not terribly useful to have it mean "beat up really badly," because we have so many other words to do that. The big problem here (and with "literally" as well) is that intensifiers get weaker as we get used to them, and so we need to appropriate more and more perfectly good words and change their meaning to "a lot" to satisfy our need to make an impression. The best thing we could to for the language is to train schoolchildren to value understatement.... - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 02:12:21 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "Grease" is JUST the word Bradley Skaught wrote: > > It's become our favorite reoccurring joke to talk > about completely imaginary experiences as being "in reality". Um... shouldn't that be "recurring?" ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #193 *******************************