From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #192 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, August 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 192 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Whoops Apocalypse [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again [Aaron Mandel ] RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Steve Holtebeck ] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Dan Schmidt ] Re: [loud-fans] more peevage [Miles Goosens ] RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [bbradley@namesecure.com] RE: [loud-fans] more peevage [bbradley@namesecure.com] Re: [loud-fans] more peevage [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] more peevage [Roger Winston ] RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com] Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] more peevage [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:48:29 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Whoops Apocalypse Lefty, then West: >> I'm not sure the added 49 minutes adds that much.....seems like it just >> serves to make the point over and over again.........CHAOS......which, I >> believe, was made adequately in the original. > >I thought that a lot of the extra footage fleshed out the characters a >little better. Which is why I strongly prefer the original version. Coppola may have shot these additional scenes at the time for any number of reasons -- to appease the actors (Duval has been vocal over the years about how he hated that the scene where Kilgore rescues the child didn't make the final cut), to flesh out the characters, maybe because he just couldn't stop shooting, I dunno. But what came out of the editing room was an ALLEGORY. In other words, characters aside from the narrator are *supposed* to be one-dimensional, functioning as symbols rather than as fully fleshed-out characters. That's what an allegory is. Adding "dimension" to characters like "Kilgore" is a huge mistake, and it makes APOCALYPSE NOW 2.0 a far less powerful film. yours from the Slough of Despond, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:36:38 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: > out of concern for the implications regarding doug's relationship with his god > if he's not, seeing as how he did follow the time honored "repeat it three > times" method for making wishes come true. woops, does that mean it's going to come back on me tenfold?? uh oh.... jeFF [paraphrased]: }} band called Strap-On God oh, that is so brilliant. yeesh. wish i'd thought of it. - -- d. n.p. nightwish _wishmaster_, just arrived (short i, please, as in river) yestereve; ordered back when i still had a job and money and like that. on evidence so far i like it much better than jeFF; Tarja Turunen's vocals are so pleasant (she really reminds me of Loreena McKennitt) that i mostly can't be arsed to look up what she's actually singing, however while jeFF shared a bunch of english-second-language word salad from "she is my sin," its chorus starts "a sin for him/desire within/a burning veil/for the bride too dear for him" which ain't all *that* bad. all very pseudo-18th century, like, uh, Loreena McKennitt (whose records I often really liked. I hope she starts to sing again sometime). 'n (although i've done it in print) i'm beginning to question the wisdom of criticizing bands for writing lyrics in languages of which they have inadequate command (i.e., english). i'd much rather here nightwish sing in Finnish, but it's increasingly clear to me that that would make it harder for them to make any kind of living making the music they love. if i slam them for writing in english poorly, am i just perpetuating the cultural imperialism that makes them think they have to to start with? i dunno. of course, plenty of english FIRST language bands emit fairly dreadful lyrics, but my impression is definitely that they would be somewhat clunky in any language, but more free of syntactic problems and phrases that make little sense in their own tongue. i really like the intro to track 4 ("wanderlust"), very zappa-esque doubled key guitar riff -- i'm not good enough to say whether it's truly chromatic or if it just trips through a few keys in short order, but it's pretty salty and pretty fun. it's no "fucking champs" though. i have i mentioned tht i like that band in spite of their name, not because of it? - -- d. show! shoddy workmanship/sub-arachnoid space 17 september wash dc. = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > it's no "fucking champs" though. i have i mentioned tht i like that > band in spite of their name, not because of it? i was under the impression that the band was "really" called the Champs, but due to name conflicts with an earlier band, they were using a different variant of it for each record. no? the CD i have by them (just picked it up from the bargain bin; haven't played it) is credited to "C4AM95". and if that's not what's going on, i'm still surprised that i can't think of anyone else who's done that. many bands seem desperately in need of a way to get around namespace collisions, considering the lameness of names like "Mishima USA". a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:12:18 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Aaron Mandel wrote: > i was under the impression that the band was "really" called the Champs, here's what i know, which is not definitive a) the record store where tim green's ex-bandmates shop files 'em under "f" b) so does allmusic. i had assumed that the C4AM95 record was a sop to distributors who would carry an act with an obscenity in its name. > different variant of it for each record. no? the CD i have by them (just > picked it up from the bargain bin; haven't played it) is credited to love to hear what you think -- you're not one of the folks that i would have commended them to in particular -- they make cool out of metal influences in a very different way from, say, the Need. i think it's really good, though; it was the first of theirs that i heard. ye gods is it ever hot. - -- d. np helicopter helicopter _by starlight_ = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:54:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, John Cooper wrote: > Susan Stamberg of NPR's All Things Considered refers every afternoon > to the Dow Jones "Industrals". Former and present Madisonians will recall that Crazy TV Lennie (of American TV fame) used to refer to "s'ereo sys'ems" in his ads. Not in his adds. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb:: __Batman__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:02:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, amy lewis wrote: > it's tough being an editrix whose boss uses words such as: > > - actionable (ostensibly referring to an item that one could put into > action; AHD3 lists only one meaning -- giving cause for legal action). > > - agreeance (as in "i think we're all in agreeance here.") > > - productize, monetize, and the like -- i'm not such an old-skool > philologist that i declaim all neologisms formed with "-ize," but dang it, > some of them are just plain ugly. Get a rubber stamp in the shape of Dilbert's boss's hair, and stamp all such boss-speak with it - he'll get the picture... Or you'll get the boot. Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:00:32 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage > it's tough being an editrix whose boss uses words such as: > > - agreeance (as in "i think we're all in agreeance here.") I dunno - this dude sounds pretty cool to me. My pet peeve is the use of "literally" as a mere intensifier. I accept the evolution of the language, but in this case we're losing a word with a unique meaning and gaining nothing. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:16:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > n.p. nightwish _wishmaster_, just arrived (short i, please, as in river) > > 'n (although i've done it in print) i'm beginning to question the wisdom > of criticizing bands for writing lyrics in languages of which they have > inadequate command (i.e., english). i'd much rather here nightwish sing > in Finnish, but it's increasingly clear to me that that would make it > harder for them to make any kind of living making the music they love. if > i slam them for writing in english poorly, am i just perpetuating the > cultural imperialism that makes them think they have to to start with? i > dunno. of course, plenty of english FIRST language bands emit fairly > dreadful lyrics, but my impression is definitely that they would be > somewhat clunky in any language, but more free of syntactic problems and > phrases that make little sense in their own tongue. Actually, in quoting the lyrics, I usually chose either the first few lines or something near the beginning. I did so arbitrarily, so it didn't look like I was panning for bad lyrics. (In the one case where I didn't quote from the begininng of the song, I actually made the lyrics look a bit better, since if I had quoted the beginning, it would have been more damned stuff about a wolf, just like the song before.) And I scrupulously avoided saying anything about the lyrics' quality (except by implication, that the third excerpt impressed me most) or implying that their quality might have anything to do w/their being Finnish. (When I mentioned that they were Finnish, it was in reference to things like Tapio the bear-king etc.) But if the lyrics' imagery or syntax sometimes seems a bit off, well yeah, that may be because English is (presumably) a second language for them. Then again, the syntax isn't the problem for me - it's the generally stereotypical nature of the images and meaning, which fall into the gothy end of metal cliche for me (N. European division). Oh hell - damned Finns can't speak English very good. And they probly pernounce it "aks" to. I'm a Yankee Doody Dandy. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::The dog-eared pages, the highlighted passages, the margin ::notations...this book has actually been read: it can't be a student's! __Jose Chung__ np: still Jase's CD-R - the first one this time. Where's the Veruca Salt track "Disconnected" from? Ditto Liz Phair's "Bars of the Bed"? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:24:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Dan Sallitt wrote: > My pet peeve is the use of "literally" as a mere intensifier. I accept > the evolution of the language, but in this case we're losing a word with > a unique meaning and gaining nothing. - Dan I like the mise en abyme potential, though: "I was laughing so hard I literally burst." "It was that funny?" "No, I literally literally burst - I ruptured a hernia." "Wow, that must have been *really* funny..." Not literally yours, Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Why should we value the work ethic ::when employers care so little about the pay ethic? __Barbara Ehrenreich__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:27:01 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On 8/9/01, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > > Susan Stamberg of NPR's All Things Considered refers every afternoon >> to the Dow Jones "Industrals". > >I'm sure no one else would care, but this isn't Susan Stamberg, who now >serves as a special correspondent and not a newsreader; it's Ann Taylor. Absolutely right, as I've been reminded several times at home! Thanks for the correction, and sorry, Susan. >I love the way she emphasizes the word "billion" -- "on a volume of over one >BIL-yun shares..." I think they teach that in newsreader school because 'm' and 'b' are hard to distinguish if the sound is low or fuzzy. I find it a little annoying because it seems to put an editorial slant on the reading of raw numbers, as if it's inherently outrageous that something costs a billion dollars or whatever. It would be better if the US adopted the UK way of saying a "thousand million"...which gives a better instant idea of the kind of number we're talking about. After all, what's a billion? But a thousand million...ooooh! John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:47:57 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hoodleehoo tape revoo #1 >The non-drag guitarist's booty is on the cover of the Andre Williams album? Or >they both have releases entitled "Silky"? Only one SILKY. The Doll Rod did the cover art for Andre's album, and from what I understand, she furnished her own bottom for the photograph. Where's my big guy, Andy Dear friend
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[--some spam Doug Mayo-Wells got earlier today] (courtesy Doug Mayo-Wells) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:50:58 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Dan Sallitt wrote: > My pet peeve is the use of "literally" as a mere intensifier. I accept > the evolution of the language, but in this case we're losing a word with > a unique meaning and gaining nothing. - Dan okay, can I put in a vote for "decimate?" which, as it's similarity to "decimal" suggests, means "to take a tenth of or from" (specifically, usually, killing every tenth member of a population). i snigger whenever I hear a sports announcer say that one team "literally decimated" another -- no one ever seems to be jailed for these crimes. - -- d. = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:01:39 -0400 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:27:01 -0700, John Cooper wrote: >It would be better if the US adopted the >UK way of saying a "thousand million"...which gives a better instant >idea of the kind of number we're talking about. After all, what's a >billion? But a thousand million...ooooh! But is a billion not a million million in the UK? Which would be why they call a thousand million that rather than a billion. Isn't "billion" one of the UK/US differences? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:06:05 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hoodleehoo tape revoo #1 On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Andrew Hamlin shared my mail: > (NOTICE: This is one time mailing, and you've recieved this email because > of your interest to adult sites

This is my favorite bit. Yes indeed, I do seem to be of interest to adult sites! I've yet to figure out zackly why -- I guess having a harvestable e-mail address is really all it takes. - -- d. np the new helicopter helicopter again. shortlist for year's best? or just an infatuation? check back soon... = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:12:13 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough John Cooper wrote: > >I love the way she emphasizes the word "billion" -- "on a volume of over one > >BIL-yun shares..." > > I think they teach that in newsreader school because 'm' and 'b' are > hard to distinguish if the sound is low or fuzzy. I find it a little > annoying because it seems to put an editorial slant on the reading of > raw numbers, as if it's inherently outrageous that something costs a > billion dollars or whatever. Reminds me of when I used to tune in to COSMOS just to hear Carl Sagan say "billion", which he'd have the opportunity to do many times in each show, and he said it the same way, with heavy emphasis on the first syllable "BILL-yuns and BILL-yuns of light years.." I think the word "Jif" came into being as a shortcut for the letters "G-i-f", plus it rolls off the tongue a lot easier than hard G "gif". One of my pet peeves is substituting "point" for "dot", or vice versa. I learned that "point" should only be used as a numerical delimeter (decimal points: "3-point-1-4-1" or radio stations: "107-point-7" maybe even IP addresses), so hearing "point" in file names or email addresses or URLs really curls my hair. Someone told me that using "point" in that matter came from Boston ("M-I-T-point-E-D-U").. Is that right?? Steve "Plantiff's libel action is based on the allegation that Defendant changed the 'code name' on its personal computer from 'Carl Sagan' to 'Butt-Head Astronomer' after plaintiff had requested that Defendant cease use of Plaintiff's name. There can be no question that the use of the figurative term 'Butt-Head' negates the impression that Defendant was seriously implying an assertion of fact. It strains reason to conclude that Defendant was attempting to criticize Plaintiff's reputation or competency as an astronomer. One does not seriously attack the expertise of a scientist using the undefined phrase 'butt-head.' Thus, the figurative language militates against implying an assertion of fact. Furthermore, the tenor of any communication of the information, especially the phrase 'Butt-Head Astronomer,' would negate the impression that Defendant was implying an assertion of fact." - --Judge J. Baird, dismissing the 1994 "Sagan vs. Apple Computer Inc." libel case ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:16:09 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage My pet grammatical peeve - and this one drives me so crazy I want to become a lawyer - is when people say "imprimatur of approval", since (as I've mentioned before to no avail), "imprimatur" means "approval". Or, as our CEO said today in his broadcast e-mail: "The code is the code." Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:24:11 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough Steve Holtebeck writes: | One of my pet peeves is substituting "point" for "dot", or vice versa. I | learned that "point" should only be used as a numerical delimeter | (decimal points: "3-point-1-4-1" or radio stations: "107-point-7" maybe | even IP addresses), so hearing "point" in file names or email addresses | or URLs really curls my hair. Someone told me that using "point" in | that matter came from Boston ("M-I-T-point-E-D-U").. Is that right?? I've lived my whole life in the Boston area and went to MIT, and have never heard that usage. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:38:34 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough >Reminds me of when I used to tune in to COSMOS just to hear Carl Sagan >say "billion", which he'd have the opportunity to do many times in each >show, and he said it the same way, with heavy emphasis on the first >syllable "BILL-yuns and BILL-yuns of light years.." For what it's worth, Sagan claims that throughout the entire run of COSMOS he never used the phrase "billions and billions." You can probably guess the title of the book in which he makes this claim. I never saw the show, so I won't take sides. And Dan Sallitt says: >My pet peeve is the use of "literally" as a mere intensifier. I accept >the evolution of the language, but in this case we're losing a word with >a unique meaning and gaining nothing. - Dan I don't like that type of change either--see my "obtuse" complaint (I don't know if hot weather is obtuse, but it certainly makes me obtuse). But as the "astonished"/"surprised" joke shows, it's as ancient and inevitable as other types of linguistic change. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:54:04 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Fw: [loud-fans] more peevage >My pet grammatical peeve - and this one drives me so crazy I want to become a lawyer Oh shit. Rog must be really crazy now! 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Actually, this brings up something that I liked a lot about GROUNDED FOR LIFE: the show's writers don't turn their characters into moronic dimwits just because the characters are working-class and not college-educated. Sean and Claudia (the mom and dad) may have gotten married right out of high school because they "had to," and they've worked blue-collar jobs ever since, but they have decent vocabularies, understand the world around them, and exhibit other signs of intelligence. Not many other American TV shows come to mind (the first few seasons of ROSEANNE, maybe?) that have done the same. Also, in honor of AMERICAN PIE II's release, let me say that Megyn Price, as GROUNDED's Claudia, wearing skirts somewhat longer than those that barely adorned her on her LATELINE stint (those have to be The Shortest Skirts Ever Seen on TV), pretty much defines the term "MILF." later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:19:33 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough as for bill-yuns - anyone remember the guy who used to be on late night tv with an infomercial about how to make money fast? (that narrows it down, doesn't it?) he used to say "i make you BEER-yuns of dolluh." of course, he also said we are "fat rayzee americans" but that he could get us lota of chicks. i believe he's in jail for fraud. and yes, that was an example of some whose native language was not english, but was still very funny to hear. - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com - -----Original Message----- From: John Cooper [mailto:john.cooper@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 9:27 AM To: Sue Trowbridge Cc: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough On 8/9/01, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > > Susan Stamberg of NPR's All Things Considered refers every afternoon >> to the Dow Jones "Industrals". > >I'm sure no one else would care, but this isn't Susan Stamberg, who now >serves as a special correspondent and not a newsreader; it's Ann Taylor. Absolutely right, as I've been reminded several times at home! Thanks for the correction, and sorry, Susan. >I love the way she emphasizes the word "billion" -- "on a volume of over one >BIL-yun shares..." I think they teach that in newsreader school because 'm' and 'b' are hard to distinguish if the sound is low or fuzzy. I find it a little annoying because it seems to put an editorial slant on the reading of raw numbers, as if it's inherently outrageous that something costs a billion dollars or whatever. It would be better if the US adopted the UK way of saying a "thousand million"...which gives a better instant idea of the kind of number we're talking about. After all, what's a billion? But a thousand million...ooooh! John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:25:51 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] more peevage <> wow - now the chinese are cloning, too! <> oh wait - i guess they're doing it the old-fashioned way. <> eh? << You must be raved about its art charm.>> hang on - my pacifier and whistle are in the car.... great sig! - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:34:35 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage At 12:50 PM 8/10/2001 -0400, dmw wrote: >On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Dan Sallitt wrote: > >> My pet peeve is the use of "literally" as a mere intensifier. I accept >> the evolution of the language, but in this case we're losing a word with >> a unique meaning and gaining nothing. - Dan > >okay, can I put in a vote for "decimate?" which, as it's similarity to >"decimal" suggests, means "to take a tenth of or from" (specifically, >usually, killing every tenth member of a population). I recently read a book about the fighting on the Isonzo front in World War I, and learned that Luigi Cadorna, who was the supreme commander of the Italian Army from 1915 through his monumental defeat at Caporetto in October 1917, reinstituted this odious practice of the Roman Legions. If a unit refused to obey an order, or perhaps simply didn't achieve its objectives, Cadorna would often order a decimation -- every tenth man pulled out and shot. Couldn't help but root for Austria-Hungary after reading about that... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:36:34 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage Miles Goosens on 2001/08/10 Fri PM 02:34:35 MDT wrote: > I recently read a book about the fighting on the Isonzo front in World War > I, and learned that Luigi Cadorna, who was the supreme commander of the > Italian Army from 1915 through his monumental defeat at Caporetto in > October 1917, reinstituted this odious practice of the Roman Legions. If a > unit refused to obey an order, or perhaps simply didn't achieve its > objectives, Cadorna would often order a decimation -- every tenth man > pulled out and shot. Couldn't help but root for Austria-Hungary after > reading about that... Several large companies are currently instituting this policy (substitute "laid off" for "shot"), and in pretty much just such a random way. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:50:47 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough brianna lists: strawbrries straberries strawberrie's (ouch - 2 in 1) <><><><><><><><> Spoken, this one pisses me off: "scrawberries" Written, the substitution of "till" for "'til" makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Overheard yesterday, this didn't irradiitate me, but bears mention as it's the first time I've heard this particular (and redundant?) synthesis, one of my neighboprs leaving a (mixed gender, of course) group of other neighbors: "See y'all guys later." - --D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:12:01 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > > (I don't know > if hot weather is obtuse, but it certainly makes me obtuse). It was the "over 90 degrees" thing, as whenever I hear the word "obtuse" my immediate thought is of an angle more than 90 degrees. High school drafting class will do that to you. Oops! Better go feed my pet peeves. They're quite nice when they aren't coughing up hairballs. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:39:51 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again At 11:16 AM 8/10/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >np: still Jase's CD-R - the first one this time. Where's the Veruca Salt >track "Disconnected" from? Ditto Liz Phair's "Bars of the Bed"? "Disconnected" is from the most recent Veruca disc, _Resolver_, and is the highlight of that album for me. "Bars of the Bed" is an outtake from the _whitechocolatespaceegg_ sessions. It was included on the first version of the album that Liz submitted and Capitol rejected. Some other great songs, such as "White Bird of Texas" and "Blood Keeper," didn't make the final version of the record either. Thankfully, they've all turned up as b-sides or compilation tracks, or on bootlegs. "Bars" is a bit of an odd track, but it's nice to see Liz indulging her "weird" side, which is not on display on almost all of the other _whitechocolate_ recordings. Although, something does need to be said for her "borrowing" from Nick Gilder's "Hot Child in the City" for "Russian Girl." I meant to include some notes with the CDs detailing where all of the songs are from, but it took me so long just to get the CDs done that I didn't want to hold things up any further. If you'd like, though, I can e-mail you a rundown of where everything's from. Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:45:57 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] One peef is not enough >Written, the substitution of "till" for "'til" makes the hair on the back of my >neck stand up. Tell it to sit down--"till" is the original form (as in "till death do us part"). "'Til" is a back-formation, and was no doubt many people's pet peeve around 1750 or so. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 16:32:33 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again >i'm a marilyn manson fan, about as reluctantly as i am harry potter fan. >reznor is a more interesting producer/arranger but manson's a better >lyricist, singer, and has a better ear for catchy tunes (or good taste >e.g., bowie in who to nick them from). the wrestling bit seems a bit of a >low blow; i think he'd be forced to write. I don't know on what criteria I would judge their singing abilities and compare them- range, uniqueness of voice, ability to hold a note? Personally I find Reznor's voice more pleasing to the ear. As far as "better ear for catchy tunes (or good taste e.g. bowie in who to nick them from)", though I would argue that virtually the entirety of Mechanical Animals is an updated Ziggy Stardust ripoff, we mustn't forget that Trent himself has ripped off Bowie on at least one overt occasion- "A Warm Place" from The Downward Spiral follows the same note progression as Bowie's circa-1980 B-side, "Crystal Japan". Other NIN ripoffs include the nicking of the title "Mr. Self Destruct" from Soft Cell, and I'm sure there are others (I know that when he played "Dead Souls" at Woodstock '95 he failed to give recognition to Joy Division, saying only "this is the song we did for 'The Crow')... That's not to say I don't like NIN though... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 16:34:42 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I'll be... >Based solely on the titles, my vote for worst song goes to "Song.com", "W", or >"Beauty of the Beast". Best song, undoubtedly, will be "Would You Be So Hot". >That said, I love the Damned and think _Strawberries_ is just a stellar >record. I will probably not buy their new album. Hey, be fair. I know of at least one other song title that consists of only a letter (The Cure's "M.") and it ain't so bad. On the other hand, "Song.com" is nigh-unforgiveable. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:54:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more peevage On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > okay, can I put in a vote for "decimate?" which, as it's similarity to > "decimal" suggests, means "to take a tenth of or from" (specifically, > usually, killing every tenth member of a population). And the reason the word's meaning can't be extended metaphorically, like those of many other words in the language? I suppose now that a half-assed action must be precisely .5 ass done, neither .6 nor .4 assed? - --Jeff, 99 and 44/100 assed J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Why should we value the work ethic ::when employers care so little about the pay ethic? __Barbara Ehrenreich__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:33:25 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape swap review Stewart wrote quite a while ago: >"Lilybelle" -- The Geraldine Fibbers > >I've never investigated these guys, largely because of their lame-ass name, >but I kinda like this song, a heavily orchestrated tune with a really nice >extended intro. It loses me when the singer goes into the "look ma, I'm >emoting!" section, however. Other than that, though, pretty cool. Is this >representative? It's fairly representative of the album its from, _Lost Somewhere Between the Earth and My Home_. Carla Bozulich does tone down her vocals a little bit on some of the album's other songs, but does overdo it a little on others. A bit of an acquired taste, but after a while, I overcame any reservations I had, and for a while, the album never left my CD changer. The follow-up, _Butch_, is a little more straightforward and rock-oriented, and for most people, may be a better place to start. It does lose a lot of the great orchestration, though, and the songs are more concise. >"Spain" -- Kristin Hersh > >I've always really liked her voice, although I still like the early >Throwing Muses records more than anything she's done since. This kind of >reminds me of those early records in the way it makes a totally unexpected >left turn about halfway through. Good stuff. This is my favorite off her new record, for pretty much the reasons you stated -- it reminds me more of early Muses than, say, _Hips and Makers_. >"Charm Attack" -- Leona Naess > >Wow, this is quite good, kind of like what would happen if Aimee Mann and >Michael Penn tried to write a deliberately commercial pop song. Could >stand to be about a minute shorter, though. I'd heard about her, but I >assumed that the daughter of Diana Ross' ex-husband would probably suck by >association. How's the rest of the album? The album itself is rather inconsistent. There are two or three songs that are almost as good as "Charm Attack," but there's a good chunk of the album that seems somewhat unfocused and her lyrics can be somewhat awkward at times. The one problem you cite with "Charm Attack" pops up a few more times -- some of the songs simply go on longer than they need to. She does show some real promise, though. Reading the credits for the album, it turns out that all of these songs were already two years old by the time the record was released; I'd like to see what she can come up with now, how much she's grown as a writer since then. >"Deceptacon" -- Le Tigre > >Kathleen Hanna's post-Bikini Kill project, which I hadn't heard. I hadn't >expected this to sound so completely retro, as if it came out on Rough >Trade in 1980. Actually, it sounds like she's ripping off the Rondelles. I don't think I've heard anything by the Rondelles, but if they sound anything like this, I'm definitely interested. More info, please? >"Weakened State" -- Sarah Harmer > >I swear this name sounds familiar, but I know I don't have this. Did she >used to be in a band or something? This is really good, though--reminds me >of Merrie Amsterburg a bit, or maybe Jen Trynin. She used to be in the Canadian band Weeping Tile. I don't know as much about them as I should, but I'm sure there are others on the list (Jer? Andrea?) who might be able to tell you more. _You Were Here_, the solo disc this song is from, was my introduction to her work and was among my favorite albums of last year. If you like this song, you'd probably enjoy the album. >"Meaningless" -- Jon Brion > >I know I really like him, I don't know why I haven't bothered to pick up >this album yet. This is one of my favorite songs on the disc. The entire album is great; it actually took me a while to decide on just one song to include on the mix. "Gotta Start Somewhere" and "I Believe She's Lying" would have been strong contenders as well. There's also a good cover of Cheap Trick's "Voices" that closes the album. I'm not sure if this album has gained retail distribution yet, or if it's still only available through his Artist Direct site. Either way, it is worth tracking down. >Thanks for the enjoyable-as-always disc, Jason! Glad you liked it! Now I've got to go finish writing reviews of some of the great mixes I've received... Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #192 *******************************