From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #189 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, August 9 2001 Volume 01 : Number 189 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost/SW [Steve Holtebeck ] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost [Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost [Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com] Re: [loud-fans] Cowboy Junkies Greatest Hits...please don't buy it ["John] Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost ["John Sharples" ] Re: [loud-fans] Raving About "Attractive Nuisance." ["John Sharples" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:28:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Bradley Skaught wrote: > > Not as horrifying > > awful as "Muskrat Love" though... > > Oh man, I can't believe you're badmouthing this song! Maybe you need to hear > the original Willis Alan Ramsey version, which is just fantastic. When it's > sung with that kind of cocked eyebrow Lyle Lovett twang (and Lovett got much > of his thang from Ramsey) than it reveals itself to be a fine song. > Especially cool with Leon Russel playing electric piano. Anyhow, it's a > great song, damn it. Aw, I'm just funnin' ya. The real worst song ever is "Rock Me Amadeus." - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Let's quit talking about it and start watching it on TV:: __Susan Lowry__ np: Darius Milhaud "Le boeuf sur le toit" Orchestre de l'Opera de Lyon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:40:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > one of my favorite rants here; tune in next para. if you need to. or > killfile me, hell. but. one difference between disposa-pop now and > disposa-pop then that i wish people would quit glossing over is that the > record companies aren't even their own masters; they are all subordinates > of larger conglomerats. way more business analysis and focus groups and > other assorted b.s. these days. i think it leaves a bit of a sour taste > in the music that results that's qualitatively different from > sound-alikes, knockoffs and transparent marketing ploys of yore. I tried not to gloss that over ( implicit in all the "product" stuff, and I think slightly more explicit elsewhere - but I'm not going to reread all my posts to prove it!) but I also figured I didn't want to start another range war re "capitalism." > dmw goes out on a limb: rampant use of pitch correction all over the place > and the use of digital technology to artificially time lock everything so > it sounds like it was played by robots is a fad, probably near the end of > its lifetime. why? every engineer i've ever met hates it; every music > listener who can hear it hates it; the rest really didn't care to start > with; ergo: no significant effect on bottom line profitability of da > product. god i hope i'm right god i hope i'm right god i hope i'm right. And then Michael Bowen turned on his Scornicator: I beg to differ with Mr. dmw's theorizing: I would imagine that most of the folks who enjoy the current pop music scene wouldn't know what rampant pitch correction (anyone read about Mariah Carey's "breakdown"? I think we have a gold medalist in the Emotional Special Olympics!) was if it bit them on the ass, nor would they be able to recognize artificial time lock if it meant that their SUV/riceboymobile/phat ride would be repoed on the spot. And then I say: But that's what he said: most people can't hear it but those who do hate it. I think Mariah's just upset about the synthesizer flute patches - perhaps one fell off in an embarrassing manner? > i'm a marilyn manson fan, about as reluctantly as i am harry potter fan. > reznor is a more interesting producer/arranger but manson's a better > lyricist, singer, and has a better ear for catchy tunes (or good taste > e.g., bowie in who to nick them from). the wrestling bit seems a bit of a > low blow; i think he'd be forced to write. Oh probably so - Mr. Brian Warner actually seems pretty smart, if just a bit too canny. But someone needed to become a pro wrestler, and in my limited search capacity, I picked on him. > metal record. i'd say 1988 and _...and justice for all_, personally. > wish i could remix it from the master tapes though...where's the bottom > end? That's the one I was dumping - the other thing that bugged me is singer's (forget name) limited range - it seems like fully half the vocals on the album are him growling on the same note around A below middle C or so. I mean, I recognize that there's some musical talent in that group - some of the arrangements are pretty cool; there's no doubt they can play their instruments - but they don't, in the end, seem to have anything to say. Shoulda just covered "Wooly Bully." - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:52:24 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] condiment boy strikes again On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 01:48 AM, Michael Bowen wrote: > I beg to differ with Mr. dmw's theorizing: I would imagine that most of > the folks who enjoy the current pop music scene wouldn't know what > rampant pitch correction (anyone read about Mariah Carey's "breakdown"? > I think we have a gold medalist in the Emotional Special Olympics!) > was if it bit them on the ass, nor would they be able to recognize > artificial time lock if it meant that their SUV/riceboymobile/phat ride > would be repoed on the spot. Aren't we just waiting for some hitmaking producer to come along and do it some other way? Then the rest will jump on the newest fad. Makes no difference what the music consuming public thinks (or doesn't think), so I guess I'm siding with doug. Thinking I would like to have a modest riceboymoble, although that's certainly a contradiction in terms. - - Steve __________ The Bush administration, facing opposition in Congress over proposals to open more of Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico to oil drilling, is exploring ways to speed oil development on federal lands in the West without congressional approval. - Mark Jaffe, Bloomberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 07:25:04 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost/SW On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote: > As an example of Jeff's point, I mentioned the other week that the "smelly" > booklet that comes in the Buffalo Springfield Box Set includes a couple of > charts from 66 - here's the KHJ's Boss 30 records in Southern California > chart for August 31 1966 I guess I knew that PET SOUNDS, REVOLVER, and BLONDE ON BLONDE (and FACE THE FACE) were all released within a few months of each other, but seeing songs from all these albums on KHJ's Boss 30 at the same time! I'm a few weeks short of 36, so I was one year old when these songs were hits, and recognized all the songs, and own all but five of them. Aaron Milenski wrote: > .. wondering who will be the first artist to (not in jest) cover a > Britney Spears song. Both the Travis and Fountains of Wayne covers of "Baby One More Time" (r.i.p. Napster) seem to be jest-free, besides that built-in irony that comes with any "real" band covering a Britney Spears song. This shows that, whether disposable or not, a good song is still a good song. The Wherehouse chain has been around forever on the West Coast, so I think it's a different entity than Sound Warehouse, which I remember from the midwest. They could've merged at some point, but they were distinctly different stores. I've found three LOLITA NATION cds at various Wherehouse stores around the Bay Area in the past, so it's normally worth checking their used bins, besides that they're worthless. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:34:05 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost >Aw, I'm just funnin' ya. The real worst song ever is "Rock Me Amadeus." I'm sticking with "Run Joey Run," by David Geddes. Though I'm holding out hope for "Frankie, I'm So Sorry," Andy LOS ANGELES  Marion "Suge" Knight walked out of an Oregon federal prison on Monday, flew home to Los Angeles, smoked a cigar and hit the Dairy Queen. "The first thing I did when I got [off] the plane was fire me up a nice cigar," the Death Row Records chief said while riding in a limousine en route to a business meeting Tuesday (August 7). "I stopped by a fast-food place and got me a cheeseburger and some french fries and a strawberry shake. It felt really good to dig in my pocket and [pull out cash] and pay for a meal. To press money again felt really good." [--from an article by Terri vanHorn at http://www.sonicnet.com/news/story.jhtml?id=1446415 ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:12:00 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost The worst song ever must be something overplayed like "Free Bird," no? My vote goes to Alanis Morrissette's "Head Over Feet," the ultimate write-a-hit-by-the-numbers song. I cringe with the thought that JAGGED LITTLE PILL's few non-hits (i.e the ones I haven't heard) might be even worse. Oh, and I LIKE "Run, Joey Run." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:27:22 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost dana sez: I really think that Styx shouldn't be in there. Shari "bought" their Greatest Hits way back when she was busy defrauding every music club in existence, and it's rarely left our next-to-the-stereo pile. At the very least, "Come Sail Away" is a pretty incredible hit by any standards. One of the many things that I liked about "Virgin Suicides" was that it seemed to accept Styx as being pretty great without any smirking required. Someone else will have to defend the other two bands, though. <><><><><><><> Uh, o.k., how 'bout: Journey was actually pretty good before Greg Rolie (sp?) left the band. The occasional songs on which he sang lead, particularly, are all right in my book. Though in 1993, I was in some record shop in Uptown Minneapolis, and they had a bunch of discounted cassettes, and when I almost bought one by Journey, I was successfully dissuaded by my friend John Smith, who, using the "dirty underwear" argument as a model, explained that I could walk out the door and get hit by a bus, and then I'd be dead and they'd find a Journey tape in my pocket. I instead spent the money on a more politically correct MC5 t-shirt. I seem to recall REO's later stinky phase as being somehow worse than Journey's same. And the lack of humor demonstrated in their successful lawsuit against REO Speeddealer marks them as bozos. But "Roll With the Changes" is a righteous song. And Kevin Cronin is entitled to some respect for being just about the only guy in rock and roll who articulates his final "-r"s. (The only other notable exception being McCartney's articulation of the final "r" in the word "saw" in the broadway song "'Til There Was You".) Hey, dana, "domo arrigato!" , - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:22:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > Though I'm holding out hope for "Frankie, I'm So Sorry," By? I have a song called "Frankie, I'm Sorry" but it's by MX-80, and I somehow don't think that's the song you mean. Oh yeah: which one was "Head Over Feet"? I remember the next three singles from Morissette all did the "opposites" thing borrowed from "Ironic" - I thought maybe she was auditioning tracks for _Sesame Street_ or something. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::does "anal retentive" have a hyphen?:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:26:52 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost >Oh yeah: which one was "Head Over Feet"? I remember the next three singles >from Morissette all did the "opposites" thing borrowed from "Ironic" - I >thought maybe she was auditioning tracks for _Sesame Street_ or something. > If this helps, it's the one where the chorus ends with "it's all your fault," which I suppose is her idea of an ironic comment. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:41:32 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost > ... Morissette ... As we slip into smug dismissals of Alanis I feel obliged to mention that _Jagged Little Pill_ was my choice for the #2 record of the 90s. P&B&R&T was #4. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:53:37 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost > > ... Morissette ... > >As we slip into smug dismissals of Alanis I feel obliged to mention that >_Jagged Little Pill_ was my choice for the #2 record of the 90s. P&B&R&T >was >#4. Hey, we all have our personal taste. I'm a huge fan of The Poppy Family. But I really don't think that my dislike of "Head Over Feet" is smug or a dismissal of Alanis entirely. I just think it's a horrible song. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:03:51 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost In a message dated 8/8/01 11:54:41 AM, amilenski@hotmail.com writes: << Hey, we all have our personal taste. I'm a huge fan of The Poppy Family. >> Everybody, of course, is a big fan of The Poppy Family. And speaking of fine early work overshadowed by embarrassing future chart success--all ya'll hatin' on David Geddes should look into his early work (as David Idema) as a member of The Fredric. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:15:33 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost ><< Hey, we all have our personal taste. I'm a huge fan of The Poppy >Family. > >> > >Everybody, of course, is a big fan of The Poppy Family. And speaking of >fine >early work overshadowed by embarrassing future chart success--all ya'll >hatin' on David Geddes should look into his early work (as David Idema) as >a >member of The Fredric. Which makes me mention, for those who don't know, that the Poppy Family featured a pre-"Seasons of the Sun" Terry Jacks. Oh, and the album by Fuse, the band Rick Nielsen and Tom Petersen were in years before Cheap Trick, is one of the best hard rock albums I own. And I seem to remember someone on this list once favorably comparing Debbie Harry's 60s band, The Wind In The Willows, to Love's FOREVER CHANGES. Still haven't heard the album Ric Ocasek and Ben Orr did as Milkwood... Aaron, who, speaking of pre-success 60s records, just listened to the ATTILA album last night. Not in the same league as FUSE, I assure you. n.p. Kaleidoscope aka Fairfield Parlour: FROM HOME TO HOME _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:23:40 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Floppermost >I have a song called "Frankie, I'm Sorry" but it's by MX-80, and I somehow >don't think that's the song you mean. "Frankie, I'm So Sorry," is David Geddes again. Given the same singer and the same songwriters as "Run Joey Run," my hope may be in vain. If I want to know badly enough I suppose I'll rifle those 49-cent bins. Maybe it's easier to find that Leslie McKeown's ALL WASHED UP. Feeling obliged to point out that only three songs total from JAGGED LITTLE PILL use any kind of "opposite" approach, Andy Remember Steel Dragon, the '80s metal band who recorded the classics "Livin' the Life," "Wasted Generation" and "Blood Pollution"? Probably not, since the band only exists in the fictional '80s of the upcoming Mark Wahlberg movie "Rock Star." But a sort-of-supergroup of real metal musicians  including Dokken bassist Jeff Pilson, son-of-Zep drummer Jason Bonham and one of arpeggio-king Yngwie Malmsteen's glass-shattering vocalists, Jeff Scott Soto  have done their best to bring that band to life. With songwriting help from Sammy Hagar and Marilyn Manson bassist Twiggy Ramirez, the group recorded six original songs for the movie, due September 7, and its accompanying soundtrack album, due August 28. Tom Werman (Cheap Trick, Blue Vyster Cult, Mvtley Cr|e) produced the tracks, aiming to evoke the essence of mid-'80s metal, according to Priority Records, which is releasing the soundtrack album. [--from an article by Brian Hiatt at http://www.sonicnet.com/news/story.jhtml?id=1446416 ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:31:52 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost Jeff sez: And should I go out of my way to do so, just so I can say "yeah, I've heard the 1.5 metal albums released last year that don't blatantly insult my intelligence" - since stupid, doomy or grotesque lyrics & artwork seem required characteristics for something actually to be rgarded as metal. (I expect glenn to weigh in here...) <><><><><><><><> You've obviously never heard Nile. Their compositions are so deliberately complex that they're nearly impossible to follow. They have three different vocalists, all of whom use the cookie monster vocal thing, and are thus indistinguishable from one another. And all their lyrics purport to be translated from ancient Egyptian (I am reminded of a favorite stupidity-of-metal moment from the late '80s: Bruce Dickinson is on MTV plugging Iron Maiden's upcoming tour. Quoth Bruce, "It's a concept tour. The concept is [significant pause, voice returns faux sinister] Egypt." His eyes look all "crazy"; his hands get all clawlike - cut to next scene). Their "song" "Masturbating the War God" appears to be some sort of prayer, describing the ritual impalement of captives on the erect member of the statue of some deity of another. Lyrics include the all time doozie "...'til the god's legs run red with blood, and we too become ithyphalic." Vocalised in cookie monster voice. Essentially, it's aspiration to intelligence as insult to same. "ithyphalic", - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:24:25 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cowboy Junkies Greatest Hits...please don't buy it >I got this from another list. Can't blame them for encouraging bootlegging. >This does remind me of Aimee Mann's Ultimate Collection. >> > This release is a huge insult to us and we ask that >> > if you are a fan of the >> > band that you please don't buy it. I'll probably buy this. I listen to Aimee's ULTIMATE COLLECTION all the time. JS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:11:01 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost >> Not as horrifying >> awful as "Muskrat Love" though... > >Oh man, I can't believe you're badmouthing this song! Maybe you need to hear >the original Willis Alan Ramsey version, which is just fantastic. Bradley beat me to it. My thoughts exactly!! Ramsey calls it "Muskrat Candlelight," and it's different from the C&T version. Bradley turned me on to this album - a must have for fans of Keltner and the Bramlett/Russell crew, not to mention the whole Austin thing. Don't have to tell you which album it's on, JS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:05:42 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Raving About "Attractive Nuisance." >I have now listened to it every day for about a week, often two or three >times a day and am thinking it is brilliant, maybe my favorite album of >2000. > >Now I need to go back and reevaluate "TTOOL." Maybe I have been wrong about >that, too... I've said it before, and I'm about to say it again: I *love* TTOOL. I really don't understand the big problem with it. Recommended: burn yourself a CD-R of it, and include SLOUCHING as bonus tracks. Mmm mmm. JS PS Do the same with IBC and the Badfinger, Hollies, and BeeGees tracks. Lightens the load. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:14:52 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Toppermost >Aw, I'm just funnin' ya. The real worst song ever is "Rock Me Amadeus." Nah, it's Billy Joel's "It's Still Rock'n'Roll To Me." Or Seger's "Old Time Rock'n'Roll." Most songs with "Rock'n'Roll" in the title seem to have the inside track. JS ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #189 *******************************