From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #183 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, August 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 183 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Dave Marsh: gone off the deep end? [John F Butland ] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] Smashing Fits (another ramble) [Michael Mitton ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:26:43 -0300 From: John F Butland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dave Marsh: gone off the deep end? At 01:26 PM 01-08-02 -0700, Sue Trowbridge wrote: >http://www.starpolish.com/news/article.asp?ID=144 > >This may be a satire, but I don't think so. > >"We will all rot in the pits of hell five minutes for >every second we've wasted watching MTV, and there are >no seconds that are not wasted watching MTV after the >first two minutes. I believe this with all my heart >and what's left of my mind." He also claims "it is a >crime against both journalism and humanity to produce >Entertainment Weekly and People." Hey, I subscribe to >EW and happen to think it's a pretty cool magazine! No, I don't think it's satire if it's coming from Marsh. Ol' Dave lives in prety much a black and white world (in various senses of that meaning) and no hyperbole is too hyper for him to make his point. He recently finished a lengthy anti- Daniel Lanois rant over on the Springsteen list that completely undercut his correct point (IMO) that Lanois would be a poor choice to produce Bruce. I've seen him a few times at various conferences and it's pretty much a Jeckyl and Hyde deal. One time he was on the verge of literally foaming at the mouth during a discussion about CD labelling, invoking the First Amendment and threatening to "Call Frank Zappa right now!" (I think he just wanted to let us know he had Frank's phone number.) What set him off was a rapper, whose name I forget, saying that he *wanted* some of his CDs stickered because they contained language that he didn't want his kids hearing until they were old enough to deal with it maturely, but that it should be the artist's decision in the end. Marsh went nuts calling the guy a traitor to free speech, completely missing the point that true freedom of speech and expression includes both the freedom to *not speak out* and the freedom to label your own work if you want to. He (Marsh) saw voluntary labelling as just another version of Uncle Tomism. I didn't point out to him that he was sounding a lot like the anti flag burning amendment folks, but I figured the irony would be lost on him at that point. At other times he was pretty rational and open-minded. Go figure. So, to answer the question in the subject - probably yes, but it wasn't a recent occurrence. best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:46:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smashing Fits (another ramble) On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Bradley Skaught wrote: > In my opinion, the vast majority of the people in this country who have any > relation to music at all are not really what I'd call "big music listeners". > Music, for most people, is a soundtrack--a social event and a kind of moment > signifying bookmark. The artistic potential of music and the pursuit of > personal growth through music isn't really the point for them I've got no > problem with that. What I do get annoyed at is the assumption that exposing > all of the Shania Twain listeners of the world to some kind of "real country > music" is going to switch on the enlightenment switch in their head and > they're going to realize that Shania is "bad" while the good country music is > "good". I agree - and that view is doubly flawed, because not only does it pretend the way most music consumers take in music is the same as the way music *fans* do, it also assumes that "good" music can function as (what I will now call) lifestyle music just as well as music intended for that function (and I'm pretty sure Shania, Mariah, and all the other chart artists are pretty clear about how their music is consumed, and take that fact into account in producing it). Just the fact that, in order for a record to be HUGE, it has to sell to lots of people who'll buy only one record a year ought to be evidence enough for this. What kind of "big music listener" buys only one record a year (unless forced to by poverty, or because s/he's too busy *making* music)? I remember reading something about radio marketers' surveys - you know, the sort of thing when you're walking through a mall, and someone with a clipboard accosts you and drags you back to a cheap paneled room to fill out a survey etc.? Anyway, while it would seem fairly obvious that songs played to such surveyants (?) that scored very low would not get airplay, apparently radio execs frowned upon songs that scored very *high* as well. The reasoning seemed to be that if a significant number of people *really* liked a song, it was likely that a lot of other people would really hate it. And since radio execs care only that listeners don't change the station, not whether they're actually enjoying what they're hearing, the safe and bland was preferable to the interesting. Hmmm...I seem to be indulging in the musical elitism Bradley was decrying. I guess I'd defend myself, on the grounds that, since differnet listeners use music in different ways, there's nothing wrong with producing music for the passive listener. But that means its specifically musical aspects are less important than the whole marketing package: was it on this list that someone noted they simply couldn't imagine a Britney Spears song appearing anonymously with just voice and piano? The song isn't the point; it's merely a vehicle for the image, the video, the dance, the costumes, the spinoff products, etc. None of this is new - but I think it bears repeating that music that grabs a listener by the shirt collar really isn't suited for this sort of thing - - just as people who are inclined to grab others by their shirt collars probably aren't the best PR and media shmoozers, lacking the subtlety and moderation to appeal to all people (or at least all people in the specified demographic). - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::playing around with the decentered self is all fun and games ::until somebody loses an I. np: the Figgs _Sucking in Stereo_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:50:04 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] off the deep end Speaking of Dave Marsh, Greil Marcus, and their ilk, has everyone visited www.rockcritics.com? I'm completely addicted to it! Pages and pages of nothing but interviews with rock critics: Marsh, Marcus, Meltzer, and just about anyone else you could name, even that "glenn mcdonald" guy who does the War Against Silence! The overriding theme through most of the interviews seems to be "People obsessed by the sound of their own voice". Present company excluded, of course. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:01:51 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced >I think I read somewhere, alternating between a drone on one >pitch and a drone on (what later got called) bVII is a very old device >indeed: you'll hear it in Appalachian ballads, and in their ancestors (Tim >Walters?). As far as I know (which isn't all that far, really), most of the folk songs collected in the British Isles and Appalachia were sung unaccompanied, so it's hard to say what truly traditional harmony might be. (There are some exceptions such as the Copper family, who've been singing a capella harmony for at least five generations, with documents to prove it. As it happens, they're more tonal than modal.) The guitar accompaniment we've come to expect is a fairly recent phenomenon. That said, there are plenty of songs that use the Mixolydian mode in the melody, and that can be harmonized agreeably with I and bVII. >I should pull out a CD I have of Scottish ballads from like the >16th through 18th centuries: there's one track that I swear could sound >like a Bob Mould song if he sang it and played his characteristic geetar. I believe Mr. Mould once said "it's important to respect the dulcimer", or something like that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smashing Fits (another ramble) On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Bradley Skaught wrote: > What I do get annoyed at is the assumption that exposing > all of the Shania Twain listeners of the world to some kind of "real country > music" is going to switch on the enlightenment switch in their head and > they're going to realize that Shania is "bad" while the good country music is > "good". I think this is basically right, but with an exception. There is a set of people who want to listen to music as an end in itself instead of simply lifestyle music (as Jeff put it), but don't have any real access to it. Not everyone has a college radio station to listen to. Not everyone has an independent record store, or friends into "real country." Not everyone has a CD-buying budget that allows buying CDs ears-unheard. Not everyone lived in a time when MTV showed music videos. And so on. Sure, these are all barriers that anyone could break through, but they are still barriers. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:49:42 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced Double ">"s is me, single ">"s is Jeff, no ">"s is me again: >> 1> The arrangement. >Yeah, okay... but note that a lot of the most interesting music of the >last ten-fifteen years ditches guitar, bass guitar, acoustic drums, and >singer. Sure, but as I mentioned, a case could easily be made for that not being "rock" at all, specifically by virtue of the absence of this or other listed attributes. >> 2> I-IV-V. This will never go away as long as the move "V-I" is >> understood as a resolution. >That is to say, imitators fall back upon an outmoded musical form But what happens when the modernism which impells the inclination to view something as outmoded, merely because it has already been done, has itself already been done? "One deep breath, then breathing is passe"? >witness >all the folks who insist that "More Than a Feeling" has the same chord >sequence as "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Yeah, especially when it's obvious that Boston was swiping "Louie Louie", and Nirvana was playing "Godzilla", only sped up. >Also: I suppose the 1812 Overture is the blues now? That is, I-IV-V and >variants predate the blues (in fact, are absent in really early blues and >were added from European-American influence - ya had to put *some* kinda >harmonic progression in there...), as Dan Schmidt's post points out. True, but as I think I previously said, many of the things on my list predate blues, but their absorption by rock came via the blues, not via their previous avatars, hence their continued presence in rock constitutes the influence of the blues. >> 3> Keying up to the IV for the bridge. Buddy Holly brought this simple and >> effective change-on-the-thrird-part variation to pop, and it has not left. >Is Buddy Holly a blues guy bringing a blues device to pop/rock, or is he a >rock guy, with therefore a blues pedigree, bringing a rock device to pop >(here differentiated from rock)? I guess what I'm saying is, what's the >line back to the blues here? I don't know what they called it when he first started doing it, but his structures (the opening lick to "That'll Be The Day" is a simplification of a traditional Delta style fingerpicked turnaround, for one example, the 12 bar structure of the verses "Rave On", for another) are nigh indisputably blues derived. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a specific blues precedent for the Holly bridge move (which essentially amounts to chopping the beginning I chord bars off of a twelve bar progression) but I doubt such would be too difficult to find. >(I'd also have to wonder if pre-rock >songwriters didn't use this device as well...off the top of my head, I >can't think of any, but it's still humid around here, and my head can't be >bothered right now w/a mental journey throuh the Cole Porter catalogue, >etc.) Scanning various fakebooks has generally indicated to me that popular songwriting before rock & roll had a far richer harmonic palette than the vast majority of material after the early fifties. >> 5> The backbeat. The snare falling on the three is the single most common >> rhythmic move in all of rock, and rock did originate this on its own. >I think you meant "didn't," right? As in, the blues does this a lot. Point >conceded if so. I did mean "didn't". Add that to my previously posted "oops". Here's hoping I can get another infallibility card from the community chest before I get to Park Place. >> 6> Adding sixths, especially on the backbeat. This is still used all over the >> pop and rock map. Rob Poor's bassline even does a variation of this in >> "Aerodeliria". It's most commonly associated with Chuck Berry (who as I see it >> represents the transition from blues to rock), but Jimmy Reed, who slightly >> predates Berry, and is undoubtedly blues, not rock, did this all the time. And >> I'm sure it predates him, too. >I'll have to relisten to that one, since in memory I can't really hear it >- but usually when that pattern gets played, it sez "I am now hearkening >back to the blues roots of early rock, such as Chuck Berry" or, if >slightly crunchier, "I am channeling the ghost of Keith Richards...which >is peculiar, since he's not dead yet." Qualified agreement here... It falls before the line about "elegant Stalins" in the first verse, an again between "what will these kids get done" and "with their ibuprofen", in the second. It's not the straight up Chuck Berry added sixth on the three, it's a variation, but clearly derived. The majority of "Not Because You Can" is based on a sixth adding pattern, too. It has that jerky stop-start thing to it, and the second time the sixth is added on the two, but the first one is straight outta "Johnny B. Goode". I don't think it necessarily *must* be intended as a signifier of the ghost of rock past; I usually hear it as something along the lines of "hmm, now this is starting to roll somewhere". But everybody's ears lead to a different brain. >> 6> The seventh chord, essential to blues, is still probably the most common >> harmonic extension in guitar-based rock as played in standard tuning. >Yer talkin' bout the flatted seventh in a major-scale context, no? - or >sort of a (consults the I Ching - realizes what he wants is a list of >modal scales instead) whatever that mode is that starts on the fifth >degree of the scale Si. Ye olde dominant seventh chord, if you play jazz or study theory. In blues it's used as an extension of just about any chord, regardless of the chord's scalar / modal position. In rock, too, hence, the presence of blues influence in rock. >I think we're left with a fragmentary harmonic and melodic set of >preferences that indeed come from the blues, but the way they get used in >a lot of new music is so far removed from those origins, it's doubtful to >call them "origins" at all. If an enourmous flood can be geologically and historically identified as having happend to the Sumerian civilization, but some other tribe has an identical story in their lore which can be identified as dated later than the Sumerian version, and contains passages of remarkably similar language, I call that later tribe's story "derived from the Sumerian", regardless of what world altering innovations may have sprung from the latter tribe's adherence to their text. But maybe it's just me. >I'm just thinking of the zillion Amerindie bands (outside of the Jon >Spencer axis und suchlike) who bear almost no trace of the blues in their >material, and any number of British groups about whom you can say the >same. Game Theory were (thankfully) pretty un-bluesy, but I refer back to my example above about "Not Because You Can". Scott's not singing that he done shot his woman down in the cottonwoods by the riverbottoms, but the influence is clearly there. The song is it's own thing, but its position along an obvious ongoing historical vector with easily traceable continuity is not illusory. >(Part of an ongoing anti-blues tirade, inspired by our local college radio >station's attempt - successful though it's been, and I guess I'm grateful >for that - to build an audience by programming nothing but the blues >during evening drive-time every weekday. This wouldn't be so bad, except >that four out of five days feature DJs whose ideas of "blues" consist >solely of lame-ass "Chicago-style" tired variations that just reek of all >those suburbanites slurping cachet as "blues fans." I'm with you there, but most of that stuff is little other than a beer comercial waiting for a brand. Perceiving that as the totality of the blues is like saying "the night belongs to Michelob", instead of it belonging to sex or nightmares or the like. John Butcher Blues Explosion?, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:59:37 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: [loud-fans] Bay Area Concert Update Gillian Welch Fillmore Wednesday, September 5 at 8 PM On Sale Sunday, August 5 at 10 AM Taj Mahal The Phantom Blues Band / funky Meters Warfield Friday, September 7 at 8 PM On Sale Sunday, August 5 at 10 AM Belle & Sebastian Warfield Saturday, September 8 at 8 PM and Sunday September 9 at 8PM On Sale Wednesday, August 1 at 10 AM Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Warfield Friday, September 21 at 8 PM On Sale Sunday, August 5 at 10 AM An Evening With James Taylor Shoreline Amphitheatre Saturday, September 29 at 8 PM On Sale Sunday, August 5 at 10 AM Groove Fest 2001--Earth, Wind Fire Original Rufus featuring Chaka Khan Chronicle Pavilion At Concord Sunday, September 30 at 7 PM On Sale Thursday, August 2 at 10 AM The String Cheese Incident, Friday, August 3 at 7 PM and With special guest Garaj Mahal Saturday, August 4 at 7 PM at Greek Theatre - UC Berkeley Depeche Mode, Poe Friday, August 3 at 8 PM at Chronicle Pavilion At Concord and Saturday, August 4 at 8 PM at Shoreline Amphitheatre Cowboy Junkies, Tim Easton Saturday, August 4 at 8 PM at Warfield Lost At Last, Saturday, August 4 at 9 PM at Fillmore Roxy Music, Rufus Wainwright at Chronicle Pavilion At Concord George Benson, Sunday, August 5 at 7:30PM at Mountain Winery Green Day, The Living End Sunday, August 5 at 8 PM at Bill Graham Civic Auditorium The String Cheese Incident, Tuesday, August 6 at 7 PM and Tuesday, August 7 at 7 PM at Mt Shasta Board and Ski Park The Cult, Monday, August 6 at 8 PM at Warfield Patti Smith, Tuesday, August 7 at 9 PM and Wednesday, August 8 at 9 PM at Fillmore Aerosmith Just Push Play Tour, Fuel Wednesday, August 8 at 7:30PM at Shoreline Amphitheatre - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:49:20 -0500 From: steve Subject: [loud-fans] Exclusive version of the new Sam Phillips at Borders Borders stores have FAN DANCE on sale for 12.99 and they have an exclusive version with the bonus track "Wasting My Time (Reprise)". - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:54:01 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] creating and filling a need At 07:44 PM 8/1/2001 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Now that several of you are going to be needing jewelcases soon, I'll >recommend http://sleevecity.nviclassical.com/ as a source for all such >things in bulk. I've used both http://www.am-dig.com and the venerable http://www.bagsunlimited.com for my music protection needs before. But after Jeffrey posted this link the first time, I decided I'd place my next order with these nice Memphis folks, even if it meant paying Tennessee state sales tax (and it did). I ordered some slimline 3-CD jewel boxes, some clear slimline 2-CD jewel boxes, and sealable LP sleeves. I had my order in two days. Of course, Memphis -> Nashville is an easy run on one of UPS' main shipping routes, so it may take longer for folks in other parts of the country. Anyway, the jewel cases came intact (one of the 3-CD ones is now hosting the Chills' SECRET BOX because every tine in the original package got destroyed on its trip from New Zealand to Nashville) and I'm putting them right to use. The LP sleeves I haven't made up my mind about. On the negative side (vs. the Bags Unlimited ones I've used for years) the peeling covering the sticky stuff doesn't come off easily or sometimes even neatly, and these seem to have a much smaller sticky-stuff area; on the plus side, the flap is much longer than the Bags Unlimited version, allowing me to put double LP sets in these instead of the open-top sleeves. Anyway, one customer's opinion. I plan to do more business with them in the future. >np: The Danielson Famile _Tri-Danielson!!!_ ("no, there's nothing wrong >with your ears - he just sings like that...") Sutler booker magnifique Kim Webber had the Danielson troupe play a show a couple of years ago. When the main guy came out inside the plastic tree, she ran across the street to Walgreen's to get a disposable camera -- quoth Kim "I saw that and thought 'Holy crap, I *have* to get a picture of this or no one will believe me!'" later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:59:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] When the Sumerian Levee Breaks On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: Add a >. > Double ">"s is me, single ">"s is Jeff, no ">"s is me again: > >> 1> The arrangement. > > >Yeah, okay... but note that a lot of the most interesting music of the > >last ten-fifteen years ditches guitar, bass guitar, acoustic drums, and > >singer. > > Sure, but as I mentioned, a case could easily be made for that not being "rock" > at all, specifically by virtue of the absence of this or other listed > attributes. Well yeah - but then you're using the definition to make your claim true: "if it doesn't derive from (this aspect of) the blues, it ain't rock." > Yeah, especially when it's obvious that Boston was swiping "Louie Louie", and > Nirvana was playing "Godzilla", only sped up. you sure Boston wasn't ripping off "Wild Thing"? > >I think we're left with a fragmentary harmonic and melodic set of > >preferences that indeed come from the blues, but the way they get used in > >a lot of new music is so far removed from those origins, it's doubtful to > >call them "origins" at all. > > If an enourmous flood can be geologically and historically identified as having > happend to the Sumerian civilization, but some other tribe has an identical > story in their lore which can be identified as dated later than the Sumerian > version, and contains passages of remarkably similar language, I call that later > tribe's story "derived from the Sumerian", regardless of what world altering > innovations may have sprung from the latter tribe's adherence to their text. > But maybe it's just me. I think we need to go back to what I said about known, common ground among young "rock" musicians: yes, we learned experts can trace stuff back all the way to some ape-like guy banging on a rock, but just because the same guy ended up playing keyboards in the ROlling Stones doesn't mean current audiences don't think all that stuff is derived from that Black Crowes band. Where they think it comes from, not where does it come from. If I had been wanting to be more precise and less provocative, I would have said something like: the blues influence is less audible in today's more interesting rock than it has been at any previous time in rock's history. > >(Part of an ongoing anti-blues tirade, inspired by our local college radio > >station's attempt - successful though it's been, and I guess I'm grateful > >for that - to build an audience by programming nothing but the blues > >during evening drive-time every weekday. This wouldn't be so bad, except > >that four out of five days feature DJs whose ideas of "blues" consist > >solely of lame-ass "Chicago-style" tired variations that just reek of all > >those suburbanites slurping cachet as "blues fans." > > I'm with you there, but most of that stuff is little other than a beer comercial > waiting for a brand. Perceiving that as the totality of the blues is like > saying "the night belongs to Michelob", instead of it belonging to sex or > nightmares or the like. Oh, I know it's not the totality of the blues...it's more my little irritation at blues *fans*, or at what the term "the blues" has become for marketing purposes. Every once in a while, you just need a new word, because the meaning of the old one's been so changed. (Try "Christian" for example. Or "Suzuki Swift") I guess I'd like a way of making clear, to those who think "jazz" means Kenny G(*), that that's not what I mean, and certainly not what I like. (*) aside to Matt W.: Yes, but that would leave him free to take up another instrument...like (shudder) the clarinet. The man has a clarinetist's face if ever I've seen one. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::the popularity of the gruesome FACES OF DEATH video series is ::apparently so great that a children's version is in production, ::to be called FACES OF OWIES. np: Shawn Lee _Monkey Boy_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:18:34 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] When the Sumerian Levee Breaks At 04:59 PM 8/3/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >you sure Boston wasn't ripping off "Wild Thing"? In a way (rhythmically), they did, but the harmony makes you wait for the V longer. Wild Thing G G C C |D DD D C C | More Than a Feeling G G C C |e e e e D D | The e minor chord has the effect of prolonging the wait before the arrival of V, and also gives you at least the illusion of normal common-practice resolution when D moves back to G for another cycle. Note that the central hook of Smells Like Teen Spirit is essentially More Than a Feeling transposed to its relative minor. >Every once in a while, you just need a new word, because the meaning of >the old one's been so changed. (Try "Christian" for example. Or "Suzuki >Swift") I guess I'd like a way of making clear, to those who think "jazz" >means Kenny G(*), that that's not what I mean, and certainly not what I >like. > >(*) aside to Matt W.: Yes, but that would leave him free to take up >another instrument...like (shudder) the clarinet. The man has a >clarinetist's face if ever I've seen one. I could sentence him to a lifetime of playing nothing but Variations on Carnival of Venice...that would certainly fit his crime. An ill wind that nobody blows good, Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Beware of robbing a wretch, Of attacking a cripple. Amenemope (c. Eleventh century B.C.), _The Instruction of Amenemope_, ch. 2 ------------------------------ Date: 03 Aug 2001 18:13:01 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] When the Sumerian Levee Breaks Matthew Weber writes: | At 04:59 PM 8/3/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: | | >you sure Boston wasn't ripping off "Wild Thing"? | | In a way (rhythmically), they did, but the harmony makes you wait for | the V longer. | | Wild Thing | | G G C C |D DD D C C | | | More Than a Feeling | | G G C C |e e e e D D | | | The e minor chord has the effect of prolonging the wait before the | arrival of V, and also gives you at least the illusion of normal | common-practice resolution when D moves back to G for another cycle. Doesn't "Wild Thing" use v rather than V? (Which has a whole nother bunch of implications.) - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:31:21 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] When the Sumerian Levee Breaks At 06:13 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote: >Matthew Weber writes: > >| At 04:59 PM 8/3/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >| >| >you sure Boston wasn't ripping off "Wild Thing"? >| >| In a way (rhythmically), they did, but the harmony makes you wait for >| the V longer. >| >| Wild Thing >| >| G G C C |D DD D C C | >| >| More Than a Feeling >| >| G G C C |e e e e D D | >| >| The e minor chord has the effect of prolonging the wait before the >| arrival of V, and also gives you at least the illusion of normal >| common-practice resolution when D moves back to G for another cycle. > >Doesn't "Wild Thing" use v rather than V? (Which has a whole nother >bunch of implications.) I can't remember, but that's a good question. "Louie Louie" certainly does, which makes it almost more of an extended G7 thing...a waiting period that never ends! What say you, good people? Is it major or minor? Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Beware of robbing a wretch, Of attacking a cripple. Amenemope (c. Eleventh century B.C.), _The Instruction of Amenemope_, ch. 2 ------------------------------ Date: 03 Aug 2001 18:19:52 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] When the Sumerian Levee Breaks Matthew Weber writes: | At 06:13 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote: | | >Doesn't "Wild Thing" use v rather than V? (Which has a whole nother | >bunch of implications.) | | I can't remember, but that's a good question. "Louie Louie" certainly | does, which makes it almost more of an extended G7 thing...a waiting | period that never ends! | | What say you, good people? Is it major or minor? Oh, duh, I was thinking of "Louie Louie." - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:07:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] creating and filling a need On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > I've used both http://www.am-dig.com and the venerable > http://www.bagsunlimited.com for my music protection needs before. But > after Jeffrey posted this link the first time, I decided I'd place my next > order with these nice Memphis folks, even if it meant paying Tennessee > state sales tax (and it did). I ordered some slimline 3-CD jewel boxes, > some clear slimline 2-CD jewel boxes, and sealable LP sleeves. I would also like to stump for American Digital (am-dig) as a great source for CD-Rs and CD cases, especially the inserts that turn regular CD cases into slimline doubles, and also CD labels & inserts for CD cases. I've used them for about 4 months and have been very satisfied. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:59:57 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smashing Fits (another ramble) > Sure, > these are all barriers that anyone could break through, > but they are still > barriers. It makes good sense, but I would argue that whatever desire they have to pour into music will be poured into music regardless of what we might consider the quality of it. And if they happen to be exposed to a "better" version of whatever they're familiar with, then perhaps they'll be drawn to it, but the lack of fulfillment doesn't exist because they somehow assume that something better must exist--it only exists if they know it does. And if they know that, then they'll pursue it, right? Someone badmouthed Britney and I've got to step in and say that both "Oops I did It Again" and "Baby One More Time" are monumentally wonderful pop songs. "Oops...", in particular, is a beautifully crafted, buoyant and genuinely funny piece of work. That chorus hook is just mind blowing--the song, to me, is the best possible combination of prime Michael Jackson, ABBA, and that gritty New Jack Swing thing which I always thought was pretty hot. I find myself enjoying a lot of contemporary top 40 teeny bopper pop and R&B stuff--it's the rock bands that I can't stomach. Things like Destiny's Child or Nelly or Mandy Moore have interesting things going at various levels, but the big Tom Petty soundalikes are just painfully boring and predictable. I'm more than happy to be stuck listening to the local top 40 kiddy station, but the adult alternative rock station is a nightmare! I won't stop rambling until they take away my license, B NP Wings London Town ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 02:22:53 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] more tour dates Below are the confirmed West Coast tour dates for Wellwater Conspiracy (I know there are at least a few fans on this list). I'm planning to attend the Springfield, Portland, and Seattle shows, as well as Bumbershoot. If anyone wants to try to meet up for any of these things, email me off-list Jen Thursday, August 23 The Roxy Los Angeles, CA Friday, August 24 The Casbah San Diego, CA Saturday August 25 The Boston Las Vegas, NV Monday, August 27 Great American Music Hall San Francisco, CA Wednesday August 29 Hollywood Taxi Springfield, OR Thursday, August 30 Satyricon Portland, OR Friday, August 31 Crocodile Cafe Seattle, WA ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #183 *******************************