From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #182 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, August 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 182 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] way to give ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] way to give [Michael Zwirn ] Re: [loud-fans] way to give [Stewart Mason ] [loud-fans] Paul K [GlenSarvad@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] way to give [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced [mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber)] Re: [loud-fans] Area: One Festival review [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Area: One Festival review [Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] way to give On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > > Sixth Great Lake UP THE COUNTRY > > E6, right? does it totally suck? I'm surprised someone didn't claim it > already. Is this the Essex Green masquerading as...? The title sounds fmailiar... J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:25:23 -0700 From: Michael Zwirn Subject: Re: [loud-fans] way to give on 8/2/01 5:03 PM, dmw wrote: > On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey offered > > > And I don't want these, but someone should: > >> Me Phi Me ONE > > In addition to the "Motor Boys Motor" deal, some of you dabbling in hip > hop might be interested to know that -- Matrix, pls. correct me on the > terminology but -- Me Phi Me was part of the late 80's graduating class of > "new positivity" or whatever it was called that inlcuded the likes of De > La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest. That means a minimum of gangster > posturing and sexism, more melody and more philosophically oriented > lyrics. I seem to remember that "ONE" had one awesome song on it. Can't > recall what it was. "...and I Believe," probably. I actually liked the record quite a bit. Lots of acoustic guitar strumming and mellow beats. n.p. Sleater Kinney "Get Up" single, in advance of tonight's concert in Portland Michael - ------------------------------------------------------- Michael Zwirn michael@zwirn.com Home 503/232-8919 Cell 503/887-9800 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:35:25 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] way to give At 05:14 PM 8/2/01 -0700, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: >On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: >> > Sixth Great Lake UP THE COUNTRY >> >> E6, right? does it totally suck? I'm surprised someone didn't claim it >> already. > >Is this the Essex Green masquerading as...? The title sounds fmailiar... It's the Essex Green attempting to sound like the first Fairport Convention album. Sasha Bell sings more leads, which is nice, but the songwriting is not very good at all, and the arrangements make all the songs sound pretty much alike. I wouldn't recommend buying it for more than what Jeff's offering it for. S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:46:26 EDT From: GlenSarvad@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Paul K I remember stumbling on a low-budget release of his in the mid 80s recorded under one of his earlier band names (Paul K and the Weathermen?). There was a neat brief pop song called "My Knife" and a side-long taut epic called "Patriots." Can anyone ID this album, and tell me if it's been reissued? > Paul K and the Prayers SARATOGA Not only is this a really good ablum, it's packaged with a really storming live disc. Take a flyer. It's tough reading about Paul K because the list of people he's typically compared with (Dylan, Reed, Townes) is sort of absurd -- might as well throw Neil Young in the mix -- what he is is a strong songwriter whose worked with some excellent supporting musicians. His stuff is lyrically sophisticated, musically very rooted in the big rock tradition. His vocals shouldn't be offputting to very many Scott fans. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:30:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] way to give On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > At 05:14 PM 8/2/01 -0700, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > >On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > >> > Sixth Great Lake UP THE COUNTRY > >> > >> E6, right? does it totally suck? I'm surprised someone didn't claim it > >> already. > > > >Is this the Essex Green masquerading as...? The title sounds fmailiar... > > It's the Essex Green attempting to sound like the first Fairport Convention > album. Sasha Bell sings more leads, which is nice, but the songwriting is > not very good at all, and the arrangements make all the songs sound pretty > much alike. I wouldn't recommend buying it for more than what Jeff's > offering it for. TO me the record sums up all the worst aspects of late sixties/early seventies ruralism (including the truly awful, vintage hairstyles on display on the cover): a forced simplicity so grating it's nearly cultish, enervation masquerading as peacefulness, "nature" as beneficent Cosmic Muffin (no hurricanes, snowstorms, or mosquitoes there!), etc. etc. One of my guidelines for whether or not I'll review a record is: when I'm listening to it the first time, do I keep looking at the CD player hoping this is (finally) the last track? Out of a sense of duty, I'll listen to such a CD a second time - if it's nearly unbearable to get through, it's gone. This one's gone. (Except that it's not...I guess I'm not helping, am I?) Oddly, I liked the Essex Green CD better - even though the first track i heard by them (on the Mystique AIDS benefit sampler) had most of the flaws 6GL displays. Somehow, the broader instrumental palette of the Essex Green, and a quirkier sense of lyrics and slightly darker outlook, mitigated the problems 6GL painfully emphasizes. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I've been praying a lot lately - it's because I no longer have a TV:: __Mark Eitzel__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:33:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] way to give On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, dmw wrote: > > Paul K and the Prayers SARATOGA > > Not only is this a really good ablum, it's packaged with a really storming > live disc. In the retail world, it might be - but this is the promo copy, studio stuff only. Wouldn't want to disappoint anyone. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::playing around with the decentered self is all fun and games ::until somebody loses an I. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:55:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced On 2 Aug 2001, Dan Schmidt wrote (McGreevy's in the funky quotes, I'm in the boring ones): > | > 5> The backbeat. The snare falling on the three is the single > | > most common rhythmic move in all of rock, and rock did originate > | > this on its own. > | > | I think you meant "didn't," right? As in, the blues does this a lot. Point > | conceded if so. > > But you guys mean 2 and 4, right? I was assuming he meant third eighth-note - I was hearing a ride cymbal or something blocking out the 8ths. Again, though, accenting the backbeats is hardly new or unique to rock: certainly it's in blues, but jazz shifted to this rhythmic pattern sometime during the '20s (really early jazz is almost polka-like in its leadfooted clomp on 1 and 3). > | > 6> The seventh chord, essential to blues, is still probably the > | > most common harmonic extension in guitar-based rock as played in > | > standard tuning. > | > Mixolydian. I guess it's arguable whether a lot of this music is in > major with a flat 7th, or mixolydian. I'd be inclined to argue the > latter, since, as I mentioned (or tried to) in my last mail, V is a > lot less interesting in rock/blues/pop than in classical music (as > Matthew said, harmonies more often go to IV and back), including the > leading tone (non-flatted 7th) that's the third of a V chord. Er, so > my point is, not having a leading tone is a fundamental property of a > lot of this music, so I'm inclined away from a perspective that says > it's in there but then gets covered up. But what often happens (in addition to IV being nearly a dominant - but w/o the leading tone, it doesn't have the narrative force V - particularly V7 - has) is the chord built on that flatted seventh - bVII - functions as a dominant of sorts. And here's where things get really interesting - because, as I think I read somewhere, alternating between a drone on one pitch and a drone on (what later got called) bVII is a very old device indeed: you'll hear it in Appalachian ballads, and in their ancestors (Tim Walters?). I should pull out a CD I have of Scottish ballads from like the 16th through 18th centuries: there's one track that I swear could sound like a Bob Mould song if he sang it and played his characteristic geetar. Actually, build a song primarily on one chord (a drone), and nearly any other chord can function as a "dominant" - in that, if there are only two chords in the song, and one of them is clearly the home chord, that other chord, perforce, will sound as if it wants to return to the first chord. The flat seventh is only the most common in rock (actually, I think IV functions this way quite often) - but II works (there's a Stereolab song that's built like this), bIII (as Dennis pointed out: e.g., G major in E major), VI (A major in C major, say), bVI - and yes, Kurt Cobain built a whole album using III -> I a lot (E in C). I have a rather odd sounding song by a local Madison band whose verses are built on a drone, and whose second chord is the unexpected bVIIm (I think it's B major and A minor). Okay, now that none of the non-musicians are reading anymore, what's our next step in taking over the world? (Yes, yes, I know, Matt - you get to kill Kenny G.) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::the popularity of the gruesome FACES OF DEATH video series is ::apparently so great that a children's version is in production, ::to be called FACES OF OWIES. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced At 10:55 PM 8/2/1, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Okay, now that none of the non-musicians are reading anymore, what's our >next step in taking over the world? (Yes, yes, I know, Matt - you get to >kill Kenny G.) I'll let him live as long as he never touches a saxophone again. Matt The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. William Shakespeare, _Henry VI_, Part 2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:39:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Area: One Festival review On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Bradley Skaught wrote: > And Outkast are big heroes of mine right now, though I guess I can't > comment on a show I didn't attend. But they're brilliant, really, and, > again, you can't go wrong with an album. Stankonia is worth all the > hype, but ATLiens is in heavy rotation around here, too. hm; i thought Stankonia was brilliant in places but had tons of filler. tastes differ, i guess. brianna, there *is* a Rahzel solo album which features some of his beatboxing/noise-making skills, but it also has "real songs" that aren't up to the Roots' standard. definitely worth getting if you liked his part of the show, though. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:42:17 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] Smashing Fits (another ramble) Why do I feel the need to pick on Billy Corgan? I don't know. I haven't even heard a record since Siamese Dream. And not since the day it came out. Today I was wondering, though--if a big, loud, rocking, hooky, arty guitar, weird singer, angst ridden modern rock band was somehow fated to launch into superstardom, why couldn't it have been the Straitjacket Fits? Seems like the modern rock landscape would've been a much cooler place for us pop music fanatics with the Fits on top. Like that half an hour when The Breeders were really popular--remember how cool that was? And what if the Trash Can Sinatras were still around instead of Travis? So what does Billy Corgan do with New Order? I was made mildly grumpy the other day by a fairly predictable Talk of the Nation discussion about contemporary country music/alt. country/etc. Here's my take on it: In my opinion, the vast majority of the people in this country who have any relation to music at all are not really what I'd call "big music listeners". Music, for most people, is a soundtrack--a social event and a kind of moment signifying bookmark. The artistic potential of music and the pursuit of personal growth through music isn't really the point for them I've got no problem with that. What I do get annoyed at is the assumption that exposing all of the Shania Twain listeners of the world to some kind of "real country music" is going to switch on the enlightenment switch in their head and they're going to realize that Shania is "bad" while the good country music is "good". To assume that whatever music you consider valid and authentic is SO valid and authentic that no one hearing it could possibly deny its superiority is pathetically self-righteous. Can I argue that Scott Miller records have more artistic value than Lifehouse? Maybe, but I'm really not going to assume that the obvious superiority of Scott Miller is what the Lifehouse fan is going to experience upon hearing it. So mainstream radio does what it does for the vast millions for whom that is enough. It's not enough for us, of course, so we complain that we aren't fulfilled by it. Fine, no problem there, really. Being a music snob is no crime, to me, as long as there's an understanding of the role music listening plays in different listeners lives. Which leads to the argument of whether the world would be better if good music were the mainstream--what if everyone were accustomed to cool shit instead of pre-packaged major label shit? I'm not convinced anything would be different, really, except that either us music fanatics would feel better about the state of the music world, or, more cynically, we'd be resentful of success to the same degree and try desperately to get people to listen to Brad Paisley instead of the Waco Brothers. Which doesn't mean I wouldn't be happier if the Straitjacket Fits had been huge instead of the Smashing Pumpkins. I'm always thrilled to see REM/Radiohead/etc. selling millions.I like to feel snug in my pop fanatic world when what I consider a valuable musician gets to the top. Which reminds me how cool it is that Joe Henry seems to be selling a fair amount of records these days. I'm going to go see him next week--should be good. For Stars are opening, too, and they're a real favorite of mine lately. Buy their new album. And it makes me glad that i've got my Belle and Sebastian tickets already. It's like Thanksgiving early. B NP Cross the Red Sea With The Adverts PS Anyone who's ever spent time around us can tell you that Belle Da Gama is already an old fogey band! We get really grumpy if we're kept out late. I also hardly imagine that anyone who hears our record will think, "Wow, the kids will dig this--it's so obviously better than Incubus." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:49:56 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Area: One Festival review > hm; i thought Stankonia was brilliant in places but had > tons of > filler. tastes differ, i guess. Sad but true. In dealing with hip-hop, I guess I've come to assume that an album will be a certain amount filler, and my deciding the quality of an album is some kind of quality of the quality vs. quality of the filler decision. Outkast's filler is generally just fine and rarely sends me to the skip button. The filler on Stankonia is better than the filler on Aquemini, which is also a wonderful album. But there you go--I guess when you live surrounded by garbage you get to be kind of picky about it. B NP Trash Can Sinatras I've Seen Everything ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 01:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Paul K On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 GlenSarvad@aol.com wrote: > I remember stumbling on a low-budget release of his in the mid 80s recorded > under one of his earlier band names (Paul K and the Weathermen?). There was > a neat brief pop song called "My Knife" and a side-long taut epic called > "Patriots." Can anyone ID this album, and tell me if it's been reissued? It's called _Patriots_, I think, and no, I don't think it has. I haven't actually heard it or anything. "Weathermen" is correct. JeFF: > > Not only is this a really good ablum, it's packaged with a really storming > > live disc. > > In the retail world, it might be - but this is the promo copy, studio > stuff only. Wouldn't want to disappoint anyone. Funky -- I was pretty sure my copy was an Alias promo, and at that (sorry, i'm scum) one of the first ALias promos I got with full retail packaging. - -- d. ps. i love it when all you smart people talk theory. i'm SO glad i don't have to know how to analyze it to know it sounds good when i slide my fingers up a fret or three or eight. = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 00:05:38 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Area: One Festival review At 12:39 AM 8/3/01 -0400, Aaron Mandel wrote: >brianna, there *is* a Rahzel solo album which features some of his >beatboxing/noise-making skills, but it also has "real songs" that aren't >up to the Roots' standard. definitely worth getting if you liked his part >of the show, though. > There's also a live Roots album, if you want to ease yourself in with something along the lines of what you've already seen. S ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #182 *******************************