From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #177 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, July 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] PABARAT ["O Geier" ] Re: [loud-fans] big huge giant pseudo-giveaway! [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] Solo Bob [Jer Fairall ] Re: [loud-fans] Solo Bob [Dan Schmidt ] Re: [loud-fans] Solo Bob [Aaron Mandel ] RE: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ [bedwellm@WellsFar] RE: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ [bbradley@namesecu] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced [Michael Bowen ] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced ["Phil Gerrard" ] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced [Miles Goosens ] RE: [loud-fans] BS Box? ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] [loud-fans] Gaiman article [bbradley@namesecure.com] [loud-fans] BS Box [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced ["Bradley Skaught" ] Re: [loud-fans] BS Box [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Convinced [Jon Tveite ] [loud-fans] Wetlands closes [DOUDIE@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] BS Box [Sue Trowbridge ] [loud-fans] It's the 80s all over again! [Roger Winston ] [loud-fans] Still King ["Bradley Skaught" ] Re: [loud-fans] BS Box [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] nitpicking [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] Still King [Stewart Mason ] [loud-fans] giveaway update II [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] PABARAT Picked up a used copy at Plan 9 yesterday for $5.00. Anybody call dibs on it, I'll mail it out today, plus $2.00 postage. I also have a spare 'Two Steps', same price. np: Next Stop Wonderland-Soundtrack, great Bossa-Nova. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:39:15 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] big huge giant pseudo-giveaway! A few notes on some Jeffrey giveaway items... >King Swamp s/t Dave Allen from Gang of Four and Shriekback was involved in this project; they did two albums, and this was the more entertaining of the pair. >Men at Work TWO HEARTS Wasn't this the third -- and largely unsuccessful, at least commercially -- Men at Work album? I have the vinyl of this, and remember it being pretty good even if it did disappear without a trace. >Mighty Lemon Drops LAUGHTER Not as good as WORLD WITHOUT END; not as disappointing now as it seemed at the time. >Tin Star THE THRILL KISSER One of the most pleasant surprises of 1999 -- wholly insubstantial pop fun on the grand scale of ABC or early Duran Duran. later, Miles playing in the car this morning: Jack Logan, BULK will be playing in the car this afternoon: Luna, LUNAPARK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:09:19 -0700 From: bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM Subject: RE: [loud-fans] BS Box? Oh, yes. It is wonderful. I am not that big on the covers disc, but everything else is golden. This stuff has aged well. Especially tracks like "Over the Wall" and all the selections from "Oceanrain." It has great liner notes, and a song by song commentary by Ian and Will. Micah Bedwell - -----Original Message----- From: glenn mcdonald [mailto:glenn@furia.com] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:30 PM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: Re: [loud-fans] BS Box? While we're on the subject of boxes, anybody shell out for the Echo and the Bunnymen box? I was a big Echo fan once, but I'm not sure I still like them enough to want second copies of all the albums, and there doesn't look like that much novel stuff in the box. But I could probably be swayed by a really enthusiastic testimonial... glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:41:23 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] Convinced Anyone who's enjoyed Nick Lowe's transformation into a country/soul pop vocalist will be thrilled to hear that his new album, The Convincer, is every bit as great as Dig My Mood. It's actually a little less "lounge-y" than Dig My Mood and more "Joe South-y". Anyhow, it's beautiful stuff--I don't know when it comes out, but put it on your list. He'll probably tour again, too, and you shouldn't miss that--Steve H and I saw him last time he came around and it was a really amazing show. Some of you probably know that The Convincer receieved one of Greil Marcus' patended one-line dismissals at Salon.com. I'm increasingly convinced that, despite some great work once upon a time, Marcus is full of it (and himself.) Half the time i'm not even sure he's listened to the albums he's talking about. Half the time he's not even talking about the albums! More than anything else, his pathetic defense of Eminem smacked of an old-timer trying to be on the cutting edge again. It's too bad that a lot of once-great rock journalists ended up truly making a career of it because it would've been great if they'd just hung it up at some point and moved on to some other journalistic pursuit. Marcus should just write about Dylan, Elvis and The Mekons and not try to tag "the next big thing" everytime a major label's hype machine kicks into overdrive. Of course if he wants to give my album a good review i'll stop complaining! will work for good review, B NP cLOUDDEAD s/t ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:24:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jer Fairall Subject: [loud-fans] Solo Bob Has anyone heard the new Robert Pollard record CHOREOGRAPHED MAN OF WAR? I never know what to expect from Bob's solo work and would like to know before I order it if this is gonna be a KID MARINE or a NOT IN MY AIRFORCE. Thanks. Jer np: Go Go's, VACATION ===== Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 2001 12:34:58 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Solo Bob Jer Fairall writes: | Has anyone heard the new Robert Pollard record | CHOREOGRAPHED MAN OF WAR? I never know what to expect | from Bob's solo work and would like to know before I | order it if this is gonna be a KID MARINE or a NOT IN | MY AIRFORCE. It's pretty good, but I'm not sure what those reference points actually mean. I was supremely disappointed by NOT IN MY AIRFORCE when I first got it; now I think it's one of the best things Pollard's ever done (although it was a mistake to stick the last six songs on). The songs in CHOREOGRAPHED MAN OF WAR are fine, but the arrangements are a little samey. My guess is that you are unlikely to be disappointed. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:54:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Solo Bob On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Jer Fairall wrote: > Has anyone heard the new Robert Pollard record CHOREOGRAPHED MAN OF > WAR? I never know what to expect from Bob's solo work and would like > to know before I order it if this is gonna be a KID MARINE or a NOT IN > MY AIRFORCE. Which is good and which is bad? I didn't think Man Of War was brilliant, and its flaws tended more toward the formless and overcooked (like Kid Marine or Mag Earwhig) than the bizarre and fragmentary (like Not In My Airforce). a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:30:16 -0700 From: bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM Subject: RE: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ Et does nut-ting!!! Micah - -----Original Message----- From: bbradley@namesecure.com [mailto:bbradley@namesecure.com] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:55 PM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ that link should have been http://www.bjork.com/f_main.php?section_id=8 &page_id=5 - -- brianna bradley - -----Original Message----- From: Bradley, Brianna - Namesecure Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:53 PM To: 'loud-fans@smoe.org' Subject: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ bee vo-wee vo-wee qwiet... we-o hun-teen wabbitts.... what's that bjork song where she singing very quietly them yells? most of them? no - the specific one... ah - It's Oh So Quiet..... go here. http://www.bjork.com/unity/ hold your mouse over the ship. not literally, you ee-dee-oat. put the cursor there. sheesh. laugh heartily. - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 11:12:41 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ grrr.... argh.... for some reason the link doesn't seem to like to come through in email. it really wasn't that funny. just kinda silly. but here it is again anyways: ( http://www.bjork.com/f_main.php?section_id=8&page_id=5 ) - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com - -----Original Message----- From: bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM [mailto:bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:30 AM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: RE: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ Et does nut-ting!!! Micah - -----Original Message----- From: bbradley@namesecure.com [mailto:bbradley@namesecure.com] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:55 PM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: [loud-fans] RE: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ that link should have been http://www.bjork.com/f_main.php?section_id=8 &page_id=5 - -- brianna bradley - -----Original Message----- From: Bradley, Brianna - Namesecure Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:53 PM To: 'loud-fans@smoe.org' Subject: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh................ bee vo-wee vo-wee qwiet... we-o hun-teen wabbitts.... what's that bjork song where she singing very quietly them yells? most of them? no - the specific one... ah - It's Oh So Quiet..... go here. http://www.bjork.com/unity/ hold your mouse over the ship. not literally, you ee-dee-oat. put the cursor there. sheesh. laugh heartily. - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:22:36 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced At 08:41 AM 7/30/2001 -0700, Bradley Skaught wrote: >Some of you probably know that The Convincer receieved one of Greil Marcus' >patended one-line dismissals at Salon.com. I'm increasingly convinced that, >despite some great work once upon a time, Marcus is full of it (and himself.) >Half the time i'm not even sure he's listened to the albums he's talking >about. Half the time he's not even talking about the albums! More than >anything else, his pathetic defense of Eminem smacked of an old-timer trying >to be on the cutting edge again. Marcus can occasionally write interestingly, but his (increasingly) bizarre stances on what's good and what isn't have made him totally useless as a guide. One of his most irritating tics lately has been the gratuitous backhand. In one column he was praising Eminem's "honesty" and "authenticity", and he threw in for no apparent reason something along the lines of "as opposed to Steve Earle, Lucinda Williams, or Aimee Mann". I suppose this was to prove Marcus' credentials as a straight-up "radical" rock'n'roller, instead of being a mere liberal milquetoast like the people who like Steve, Lucinda, or Aimee. Marcus, like many of the regular Salon writers, was forced into participating in Salon's discussion boards for a week; you can read the results here: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?50@156.RyhsaRoTNIP^1@.eeac20b . I did get to ask him the question I've wanted to since I read MYSTERY TRAIN fifteen years ago: "Do you feel any personal responsibility for turning Robbie Robertson into one of the biggest, most pretentious jerks of all time?" At least he isn't an all-out racist like Christgau. MB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:57:44 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced Michael wrote re Marcus: > At least he isn't an all-out racist like Christgau. I'm intrigued - I take it you mean in the sense of 'radical-white-guy- inverted-racism', but if it's meant another way I'd be interested to know. Both Marcus and Christgau have been pretty snide about Aimee Mann for her perceived 'gentility' and 'smugness', which leads me to wonder whether their attitudes towards gender are as highly radical as the rest of their viewpoints. True, both have been OK with PJ Harvey, Liz Phair, and (way back) Chrissie Hynde, but all those three artists can be made to fit easily enough into the patronising 'honorary guy' category of female rock'n'rollers. (No reflection on them, of course, just on certain entrenched male critical attitudes.) Vulnerability, whether in a male or female performer, seems to turn these guys off to an extent which I find worrying - Oh yeah, and my spell-checker only returned one alternative for 'Marcus', which was 'mascara'... ha! peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:57:20 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced At 08:41 AM 7/30/2001 -0700, Bradley Skaught wrote: >Some of you probably know that The Convincer receieved one of Greil Marcus' >patended one-line dismissals at Salon.com. I'm increasingly convinced that, >despite some great work once upon a time, Marcus is full of it (and himself.) >Half the time i'm not even sure he's listened to the albums he's talking >about. Half the time he's not even talking about the albums! Marcus reviewed the May 2000 Wire show at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco (where Bradley and I stood right in front of the ferocious Graham Lewis for the entire show!); his review discussed two songs that weren't even played. Just as disturbing, both with that review and the "patented one-line dismissals," is the degeneration of Marcus' prose. It's nearly incoherent, to such a degree that I've been wondering if Marcus has suffered a stroke or some other health malady. I met Marcus at a book fair several years ago, just as LIPSTICK TRACES came out in paperback. He was bright and fun in the panel discussion that preceded the book signing, but he was curt and dismissive to those in the signing line. This in stark contrast to fellow panelist Peter Guralnick, who, at the signing, was personable and generous to a fault. In fact, Guralnick gave me such a lengthy answer to my question that the person in line directly behind me stared at me and loudly complained "There *are* other people in line, you know!" even though it was Guralnick himself who was causing the delay! later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:07:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] BS Box? On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote: > So Joe, Sue - when can we expect the GT/LF box set? :-) Let's see how our current stock moves. Making matters more complicated, the GT recordings are owned by Scott Vanderbilt, and the LF recordings are owned by Alias, so there's a lot of legal fun for ya. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:29:34 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: [loud-fans] Gaiman article might be of interest to some of you, and this quote sounded awfully loud fan-ish: When I was 7, I was obsessively alphabetizing my books, so I could find them immediately -- and worrying about whether Roger Lancelyn Green's 'Tales of Ancient Egypt' should be filed under 'L' or 'G.' Now, what kind of 7-year-old worries about that?" http://www.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/jobenvy/07/29/neil.gaiman.focus/index.html - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:38:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] BS Box Can we rename our list "BS Box"? Re Joe's comments on Scott Vanderbilt's possession of the GT catalog (and Alias's ownership of LF's), I've always wondered: why would they hold on to these w/o doing anything w/them? Are they biding their time in the hope that next year, w/no band and no record for 3-4 years, a 42-year-old Scott Miller will suddenly become the next newest, biggest thing, and that they can then sell the rights to his back catalog for huge giant dollars? If they're not releasing the stuff, or licensing it, what good is it doing them? I'm trying to imagine, if I had the rights to the GT catalog, why I wouldn't try to work out a deal w/anyone who wanted to press v. limited numbers of copies - such a deal could be structured so that I'd almost certainly make *some* money, I'm guessing...vs. not licensing it, which guarantees almost no money (everything's out of print, so no back-catalog sales). I jes' don't get it - probably why I never went to biz school. Perhaps someone needs to enlighten me as to the economics here. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ np: The Promise Ring _Nothing Feels Good_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:41:39 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced > It's nearly incoherent, > to such a degree that I've been wondering if Marcus has > suffered a stroke > or some other health malady. Afraid not. I've been ringing Greil up at the record store almost every week for nearly three years now (less and less, lately.) In fact, I once debated starting a website that would simply list what he had bought that week. Anyhow, he started off cold and distant, but has slowly become begrudgingly friendly and distant. We've talked Mekons a couple times, Elvis once or twice, but usually it's small talk. It's not easy to resist calling him on his increasingly vague and tangled writing, or his increasingly misguided praise/criticism. He's an old school Berkeley intellectual, really, which doesn't seem to age well. I like him for his attempt to evaluate and explore pop culture in a greater, grander cultural context, but he's proven to be fairly shortsighted and shallow when it comes to actually nailing profound artistic moments vs. more iconic displays. I'm also increasingly uncomfortable with an interpretation of modern history based on whatever pop culture elements managed to convince the most people that they were somehow definitive. Like the guy I passed on the way to work the other day--he points to a tie-dyed Cal Berkeley shirt and says to his wife, "That's why I love Berkeley--it's like the sixties never left." Hmm. By the way, I know that Robbie Robertson's pompous and should lose the Armani suits, but I'm in his corner most of the time. I really do not buy the crap from Levon that the rest of the band were somehow trampled artistically and cut out of being legitimate voices in The Band. Aside from Manuel, none of them were half the songwriters that Robertson was. Also, it was pretty unheard of for a band at the time to divide up songwriting credit equally (a la REM.) Plus, as a songwriter, I know what it means to write a song and what that credit designation stands for. I didn't write the bass lines on my album and yet I'm not giving the bass player songwriting credit. It's fuzzy at times, I know, but credit for defining a song musically with your parts and actually writing a song are completely different things. I've also gathered, from various co-workers who had been around The Band at times in the sixties and seventies, that most of those guys were useless junkies and alcoholics unless given some serious ass kicking and if Robbie had to be pompous and manipulative in order to get them to actually play then so be it. They probably should have just broken up earlier, I guess. I don't hold being an asshole against rock stars usually--it's hard to imagine surviving, let alone thriving, in that environment without being one. There are lines of course and a certain point at which they just become lousy human beings, but it's a nasty business that few survive by being friendly. I'm just in a rambling mood I guess. Don't hold me to any of this a week from now when I argue the complete opposite side, okay? B NP Sparklehorse It's A Wonderful Life ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:58:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] BS Box On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I'm trying to imagine, if I had the rights to the GT catalog, why I > wouldn't try to work out a deal w/anyone who wanted to press v. > limited numbers of copies - such a deal could be structured so that > I'd almost certainly make *some* money, I'm guessing... I've often wondered this myself, but I doubt it's just Scott Vanderbilt (or the people at Alias) causing trouble -- everyone everywhere talks about how doing reissues is a pain. Baffles me. Isn't it easier to get one person to sign on the dotted line than it is to, you know, write and record a whole album? And yet frequently reissue dates slide and slide even while the same musicians are putting out new records. I'd offer to bet money that Heavenly Vs. Satan isn't coming out on the 28th, but I don't especially want to be right. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:12:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Convinced On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Bradley Skaught wrote: > I don't hold being an asshole against rock stars usually--it's hard to > imagine surviving, let alone thriving, in that environment without > being one. There are lines of course and a certain point at which they > just become lousy human beings, but it's a nasty business that few > survive by being friendly. This reminds me of an exchange I had with a friend of mine recently at his band's show (The Teriyakis, though I'd be shocked if anyone's heard them). He was talking to me about the Portland band they had done some shows with, Wow and Flutter, and how nice they were, and a good band, too, and I said something to the effect that rock-n-roll has reached a point at which most of the people doing good music also seem to be nice people. I don't know if I could support that through statistical analysis, but I do think that the overblown ego-driven rock of the 60s and 70s has really worn out its welcome. Being an asshole doesn't disqualify you from making good music, but it seems a mark of bad taste, or a lack of sensitivity that doesn't bode well. The stuff that I like most comes from introspection, and introspection does not usually translate to stereotypical rockstar behavior. Maybe I'm overgeneralizing, or just counting too much on my own judgement of what music is "good" and what isn't, but the I do think that rock would've collapsed under its own weight a long time ago if not for all the folks who are just doing it because they love music and genuinely get into playing for appreciative audiences of whatever size is willing to show up. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:39:46 EDT From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Wetlands closes Another blow dealt to what, regardless of whether or not you are a Spin Doctor's fan, was a bit of an institution and one of the last venues in NYC that books hip hop. s > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday July 30, 2001 > NYC's LEGENDARY WETLANDS PRESERVE ROCK CLUB FORCED TO CLOSE ITS DOORS AFTER ALMOST 13 YEARS > New York, NY -- Landmark live music venue and activism center Wetlands > Preserve will be turning out its environmentally-friendly lights on > September 15th, 2001. After close to thirteen years at 161 Hudson > Street in TriBeCa, the gentrification of the Manhattan loft set has > caught up with the venerable club. The building is being sold and > turned into residential condos and the venue is being converted into > office and lobby space. > > Since opening on Valentine's Day in 1989, Wetlands has become an > institution among musicians and fans, and has been frequently lauded for > its eclectic music programming. Wetlands has achieved national > prominence as the home of the burgeoning Jam Band scene through the > emergence of Dave Matthews Band, Phish, Blues Traveler, Widespread > Panic, Spin Doctors, and the many other improv-oriented rockers who > performed regularly at the venue in the 90s. > While serving as the "must play" venue for jam bands nationwide, the > club is also proud of its development of artists from a broad spectrum > of musical genres--Rock, Punk, Hardcore, Hip Hop, Reggae, Ska, Funk, > Jazz and electronic music. Some of the most prominent bands in > contemporary music were booked at the 500 person capacity club early in > their careers. For example, Pearl Jam, Sublime, Travis, David Gray, > Counting Crows, and Rage Against the Machine had their first NYC shows > at Wetlands. Oasis' first two shows in America took place at Wetlands. "Wetlands is known worldwide as one of the most successful venues for > developing talent that the music industry has ever seen," said talent > agent Jonathan Levine of Monterey Peninsula Artists. > Konkrete Jungle, the first American weekly drum and bass party, called > Wetlands home for its first three years. And, just last year, The Roots > hosted a month long residency at the club that morphed into their > heralded weekly BlackLily party which featured an open-mic for female > talent, including Jill Scott, Macy Gray, and Erykah Badu. The club has > hosted numerous matinee shows on weekends, where the leading ska, punk, > and hardcore bands played scores of shows for packed audiences. For the > past several years, live electronica bands such as The Disco Biscuits, > The New Deal, Lake Trout and Sector 9 have also had numerous sold out > shows at Wetlands. The club was also the home of "Deadcenter", which for > ten years was the longest running and largest weekly gathering of > Grateful Dead fans in the country. > In an age where clubs are designed to cater to a niche demographic, > Wetlands welcomed everyone without the ego of a velvet rope at the > entrance. With a capacity of 500, Wetlands is the largest all ages live > music venue in New York City that is open every night of the week. Wetlands has always encouraged the use of DJs before, between, and after > bands' sets to enhance the live music experience. While most clubs would > just have the sound engineer put on a CD between bands, Wetlands prides > itself on hiring a DJ for every show to accent the vibe of the evening. > > Larry Bloch founded the club as a neighborhood watering hole for > activists and a center for environmental activity. Bloch's intention was > to open a club and to use revenue from the club, regardless of profits, > to fund the Activism Center at Wetlands Preserve, which is still a major > part of the club's operations. Since 1989, Wetlands has spent in excess > of one million dollars running the center, which is contained in-house > and supports four part-time employees as well as an army of volunteers > and interns who earn high school and college credit for their work at > Wetlands. The activism center works tirelessly on direct actions, > letter writing campaigns and petition drives to raise awareness of a > myriad of environmental and social justice issues. Every Tuesday since > the club opened, the downstairs lounge has been the host of Eco-Saloon > meetings. Each week features a different topic, and many nights have > featured special guest speakers (ranging from Timothy Leary and Allen > Ginsberg to Jello Biafra, Julia Butterfly, and William > Kunstler), as well as educators, activists, and indigenous people who would talk about issues and share ideas of included lobbying successfully with the New York Times to get them to > cancel their contract with MacMillan Bloedel, a paper supplier who was > clear-cutting the Clayqout Sound, an old growth forest in British > Columbia.. They were also successful in persuading Home Depot, the > largest retailer of old growth rain forest wood, to cease the sale of > wood from environmentally sensitive areas by 2002. > "They don't make rock clubs like Wetlands anymore," says current owner > Peter Shapiro (who took control of the club in 1996). "Now it's more > about trendy lounges and carpeted live music venues. There's something > really special about going to the bathroom where the walls have > been graffitied and stickered on for 13 years, and where the bandroom > has seen nearly 20,000 guests over the years. There is a special > feeling in the air at Wetlands that is hard to describe, it's the kind > of thing that only happens after having shows every day for more than a > decade in the same room, and it's a feeling that very few other music > venues have." Shapiro adds, "At Wetlands, we tried to create a kind of > marriage between a neighborhood bar and a live concert hall. A place > where people come to meet, socialize with friends, and dance to great > music." > > Shapiro and the current Wetlands management team (including General > Manager Charley Ryan and Talent Buyer Jake Szufnarowski) plan on > continuing to use the Wetlands name to promote shows, and are looking > for a new space to call home in Manhattan. Recent Wetlands Presents > shows have included Sheryl Crow at Shine, as well as last month's Jammy > Awards at Roseland. Shapiro also produced the recent IMAX concert film > ALL ACCESS. Former Wetlands Talent Buyer Chris Zahn has rejoined the > Wetlands team to book some "special" shows featuring the club's alumni > in the club's final weeks at 161 Hudson Street. > For more information contact: > Jim Walsh Coppertop PR 607.275.8217 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: [loud-fans] BS Box - --- Aaron Mandel wrote: > I've often wondered this myself, but I doubt it's > just Scott Vanderbilt (or the people at Alias) > causing trouble -- everyone everywhere talks > about how doing reissues is a pain. Baffles me. I should note that frankly, I doubt anyone has come knocking on Scott Vanderbilt's door lately asking about reissuing the Game Theory catalog. As far as I know, he was very amenable to working with Alias to rerelease BSC and RN, and it was Alias who allowed the deal to expire (and, oddly, decided not to reissue LN and 2S). Scott V. has continued on in the music biz -- I believe he was an A&R guy for Zoo Records -- and probably all that old GT stuff just isn't on his personal radar screen. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong, to quote Dennis Miller, and he might be turning down opportunities to reissue LOLITA NATION even as we speak. Lately, I've often thought about how nice it would be to reissue TINKER TO EVERS, so that at least a good overview of GT would be in print. But it would probably be a major pain to gather all the master tapes together. - -- Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:24:38 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: [loud-fans] It's the 80s all over again! I was recently perusing Amazon.com UK and noticed that both New Order and Human League have new albums coming out in the UK in August. The new Chameleons disc (WHY CALL IT ANYTHING?) just came out a few weeks ago, and I snagged me a copy. Haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but I really like what I've sampled from it. The time is right for a Game Theory revival! Don't you want them, baby? Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:59:26 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] It's the 80s all over again! funny you should mention New Order - i'm seeing them tomorrow at Area:One. here's the band list: AREA STAGE: The Roots New Order Outkast Moby Rinocerose FOCUS AREA: Local DJ The Innovators Timo Maas The Orb Paul Oakenfold more info at http://www.areafestival.com/ review to come.... - -- brianna bradley web designer, web ops http://namesecure.com IT ALL STARTS WITH A WEB ADDRESS tel: 925.609.1101 x206 fax: 925.609.1112 "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing." Cole's Axiom http://startrekonice.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:17:12 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] BS Box At 02:20 PM 07/30/2001 -0700, Sue Trowbridge wrote: >Lately, I've often thought about how nice it would be >to reissue TINKER TO EVERS, so that at least a good >overview of GT would be in print. But it would >probably be a major pain to gather all the master >tapes together. Not to mention that Scott would probably want to continue tinkering with this material, as per his "Ask Scott" reply about a reissue of LN, and his re-recordings of BLAZE OF GLORY material on both TtEtC and the DISTORTION OF GLORY CD. Would Donnette's vocals go the way of Nancy Becker's? buying roadsigns that say "Leningrad," Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:34:23 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] Still King Though it has no details whatsoever, the Rainbow Quartz website mentions that "soon", info will be made available about an upcoming Cotton Mather CD. I'm really looking forward to it. That stopgap EP was fun, but I need a new record from those guys. I saw them live in Austin last year, by the way, and they were stunning. B NP Outrageous Cherry Book of Spectral Projections ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:36:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] BS Box On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 02:20 PM 07/30/2001 -0700, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > >Lately, I've often thought about how nice it would be > >to reissue TINKER TO EVERS, so that at least a good > >overview of GT would be in print. But it would > >probably be a major pain to gather all the master > >tapes together. > > Not to mention that Scott would probably want to continue tinkering with > this material, as per his "Ask Scott" reply about a reissue of LN, and his > re-recordings of BLAZE OF GLORY material on both TtEtC and the DISTORTION > OF GLORY CD. Would Donnette's vocals go the way of Nancy Becker's? Or the way of Donnette's... It's interesting: somewhere in the "Ask Scott" archives (at one point, I started compiling an index to these...if I ever finish it, I'll let Sue know...), he expressed concern over releasing too much stuff so that, like (his example was) Frank Zappa, the sheer volume of stuff inevitably means much of it devolves into mediocrity that overwhelms the good stuff. In a way it seems contradictory to keep tinkering w/the old stuff, ever taking the chance that the historical record that arises from the old records gets overwritten by the interest of the moment. Again, Zappa's a good comparison: at one point, he was so frustrated by the crappy sound quality and substandard playing (by FZ's notoriously exacting criteria) of _We're Only in it for the Money_ that he overdubbed new drums and bass. Problem was, the very-eighties new tracks (including a big fat wobbly fretless courtesy Patrick O'Hearn) sounded ridiculous placed atop the vintage tracks of the rest of the album. Fortunately, before he died, he had the sense to go back and remaster the original release, with the original, if technically limited, drum and bass tracks. _Lolita Nation_'s reputation is secure enough, and made by the original recording, that "improving" it seems a fruitless gesture - probably more fruitless than keeping it out of print. (Although it's true, the only realistic release strategy would seem to be a sort of subscription-only thing, centered around this list and the Loud Family website.) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::a squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous...got me? __Captain Beefheart__ np: Screaming Eroica, "(She's a) Firedrinkin, Motherfunkin' Daughter of Elysium" - from _Great Unreleased Garage Punk Tracks of the Sixties_ - yes, a version of Ludwig VB's... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:57:20 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: [loud-fans] nitpicking At 05:36 PM 7/30/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Again, Zappa's a good >comparison: at one point, he was so frustrated by the crappy sound quality >and substandard playing (by FZ's notoriously exacting criteria) of _We're >Only in it for the Money_ that he overdubbed new drums and bass. Problem >was, the very-eighties new tracks (including a big fat wobbly fretless >courtesy Patrick O'Hearn) sounded ridiculous placed atop the vintage >tracks of the rest of the album. Fortunately, before he died, he had the >sense to go back and remaster the original release, with the original, if >technically limited, drum and bass tracks. Er, actually it was Scott Thunes (Patrick O'Hearn having left the band ~10 years previous to make new age records). Obviously I should have something better to do, shouldn't I? Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Fire in the lake: the image of revolution. _I Ching [The Book of Changes]_ (c. Twelfth century B.C.), Book I, ch. 49, Ko/Revolution (Molting) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:52:16 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Still King At 03:34 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Bradley Skaught wrote: >Though it has no details whatsoever, the Rainbow Quartz website mentions that >"soon", info will be made available about an upcoming Cotton Mather CD. I'm >really looking forward to it. That stopgap EP was fun, but I need a new record >from those guys. From what I've heard from the Rainbow Quartz PR folks, it's supposed to be out in the fall and it was recorded in fairly similar circumstances as KON-TIKI, self-produced with Brad Jones mixing. In the meantime, I highly recommend KING RICHARD'S COLLECTIBLES by their RQ labelmates The Asteroid No. 4. Sounds like BETTER CAN'T MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER-era Lilys (Kurt Hasley co-produced), but with more consistently good songs and a less overtly retro sound. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:49:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] giveaway update II Here's what's left: **** Volcanic FLUFFER 34 Satellite RADAR 45 Dip THE ACID LOUNGE 6X KUNG-POW! Abby Travis Foundation s/t - --features bassist who's played w/Beck, KMFDM! Adams Eve s/t Afrosheens, the PERSIAN EXPRESSWAY Allscars INTRODUCTION TO HUMANITY American Heritage THROUGH THE AGE OF QUARREL AND INTO THE ERA OF PUTTING UP WITH IT - --best title of the bunch! Arling & Cameron ALL-IN A-Set SONGS FROM THE RED ROOM Astoveboat NEW BEDFORD Aswad TOO WICKED Atlas, Natacha GEDIDA - --parts one and two of our International Collection! Autobody s/t Bensen, Nick PSYCHEDELIC JUGGERNAUT Bevel TURN THE FURNACE ON Big Bad Bollocks NIGHT ON THE TILES Black Water, the WHORES Blastic Pubble GRAVITY, REALITY AND RELATED COMPOUNDS Bo Bud Greene LAS OLAS Brahms, Spohr, Meyerbeer BBC Music CD vol. II no. 8 Bran Van 3000 Drinking in LA promo cassingle Bride of No-No B.O.N.N. APETIT! Brother Weasel s/t Bruce, Jack A QUESTION OF TIME - --doesn't sound much like Cream at all! Buck Dewey Big Band FRIDAY NIGHT CHICKEN WALTZ Carney, Ralph I LIKE YOU (A LOT) - --yes! the horn player with...uh, everyone in the '80s! Childs, Toni UNION Christal Methodists SATANIC RITUAL ABUSE - --e-vil quasi-Negativland sounscaping! Cloud BLUNT SHADE ARTCORE Cloud, Abraham VOYAGE TO AFGHANISTAN Coleko STAYWELL CLINIC - --sick cover art! Conn, Bobby RISE UP! - --is he...the ANTICHRIST?! Corbett, John and Heavy Friends IM SICK ABOUT MY HAT - --avant-gourd! Cudahy MILLENIA EP Danglers, the FAUX KACK - --amusing, slightly dirty cover art! Plus: cover of King Crimson and Holst - - at the same time! Dead Nuggets Dish BLUE SWALLOW MOTEL Descendo Allegro HONORABLE TREASON - --spy music for now people! Dirty Old Man River AGELESS Dissidenten INSTINCTIVE TRAVELER - --part three of our International Collection! DJ Disbelieve aka Wade Iverson OUT OF (OUR) CONTENT Dormouse Choir TONIGHT WE DRINK WITH ORPHANS - --ya know that odd rooster picture on the Brendan Benson CD? It's on this one too! Double Dong s/t - --filthy, filthy! Part of our Smut Collection! Dream City Film Club s/t Drums & Tuba BOX FETISH Drums & Tuba THE FLYING BALLERINA Drums & Tuba FLATHEADS AND SPOONIES Emperor Penguin DAMN Emperor Penguin EXTREME GAMING Emperor Penguin MYSTERIOUS PONY English Softhearts BLUE OYSTER QUILT - --oops, I lied: *this* is the best title of the bunch! Rog should pick it up just for giggles! Fall from Grace s/t Firewater PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY 4-song sampler Frown WALLGHOST Get Hustle EARTH ODYSSEY Grady REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE Grand Island NAUGHTY FRENCH SPOT Grand Island SONGS FOR RUBELLA Gray, Ed SORE EYES Great Crusades DAMAGED GOODS Grinspoon/Speak No Evil split promo CD, 2 songs ea. Gun & Doll Show WORKING ON THE BOMB Harvey Milk COURTESY AND GOOD WILL TOWARD MEN - --no, not the murdered guy - sort of prog/sludge/metal, w/lovely cardboard packaging! Henry SOUNDS LIKE - --features a very large beard! I Farm SINCERELY, ROBOTS I Love Ethel s/t - --yes, it's Ethel of Fred and Ethel fame on the cover! Imaginary Posse SONGS EP Immature Scientist Vacationist League PLEASURE MAP Kilara THE FUNERAL FIX King Swamp s/t Klipstein, Ivan LIFESTYLE! Las Toallitas VOLCANO - --part four of our International Collection! Lonely Kings WHAT IF? Loraxx YELLVILLE Maggies Dream s/t - --part of our "I Didn't Bother to Type the Apostrophe" Collection! Mayfield Four FALLOUT Mayor McCA WELCOME TO MCCALAND Me and the Chicken s/t Me Phi Me ONE Men Among Thieves SIMPLE LIFE Miguel 6 BUILDING A BETTER FUTURE IN ZENITH Modifiers, the SHOW AND TELL Moriarty ROAD TRIP ANYWHERE Naptown Amplifier Co. THE INDIANA WALTZ Neanderthal Spongecake SIDE EFFECTS OF NAPALM - --can you come up with a dumber bandname? Didn't think so! Nod RADIO GIDDY-UP Oneida STEEL ROD EP Own THE OTHERS PARTS - --apostrophes? we don't need no steenkin' apostrophes! PElvis HI FI WRECK IN SLO MO - --see above Paul K and the Prayers SARATOGA Paul, Parker LEMON-LIME ROOM pH Balance s/t Pilars Carnival WAITING FOR THE PARADE Pilgrims PLYMOUTH ROCK - --features Ben Morss of Anton Barbeau fame! Pop Canon THE KINGDOM OF IDIOT ROCK Prom, the IN THIS WAY THEY FOUND ME Proton Accelerator 33 DEGREES - --Masonic conspiracy theory soundtrack! Royal MY DEAR Sandwiches, the ROCK ON, SCUBATRON Sauce WHERE ARE YOU GOING? Scholz, Aaron PERFECT CHILD Seppuku THE AWESOME HOUSES OF EARTHS INNOCENTS Simon, Carly BEDROOM TAPES Sixth Great Lake UP THE COUNTRY Slim Cessnas Auto Club ALWAYS SAY PLEASE AND THANK YOU Small Axe A BLOW TO THE HEAD Small Axe WHEEL OF (MIS)FORTUNE Softs, the 1901 Spear of Destiny RELIGION Stratotanker GAMBIT Styrenes WE CARE, SO YOU DONT HAVE TO Suckdog ONWARD SUCKDOG SOLDIERS - --Nudity! Part of our Smut Collection! Sulfur DELIRIUM TREMENS Sunless Day ELECTRIC AHHH Supernovice TIMELY Supperbell Roundup AT STATION FOUR Take 6 SO MUCH 2 SAY Tej Leo(?) RX/PHARMACISTS Tin Hat Trio MEMORY IS AN ELEPHANT Tin Star THE THRILL KISSER Toby Dammit TOP DOLLAR - --named after Euro film character, recommendation by a Cryptic Corp. guy! Toe VARIANT Tyro AUDIOCARDS Unbunny FISSION ROMANCE THE WEST v/a FOR YOUR EARS: NEW ARTIST SAMPLER (B.Benson, K. Barry, Pluto, S. Phillips) v/a Huh mag comp CD4 v/a Huh mag comp CD5 v/a Huh mag comp CD6 v/a Huh mag comp CD7 v/a Huh mag comp CD8 v/a Huh mag comp CD9 v/a Huh mag comp Summer Bootleg v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 1 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 10 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 2 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 3 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 4 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 5 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 6 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 7 (2cd) v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 8 v/a Musician Magazine comp vol. 9 v/a REVELATIONS BOOK II Volumen Cero ANDROMEDA Weiss, Pete & the Rock Band s/t Williams, Davey and Numb Right Thumb TEXAS WAS DELICIOUS Yours Truly DOMESTICATED The following titles are gone: Arab on Radar ROUGH DAY AT THE ORIFICE Bablicon IN A DIFFERENT CITY Beatles s/t (White Album) (2cd) Bloom, Kath and Loren MazzaCane 1981-1984 Bonfire Madigan FROM THE BURNPILE Captain Beefheart SAFE AS MILK/MIRROR MAN (Castle) Cars Get Crushed EVOLUTION TO THRUST Dahlia Seed PLEASE EXCUSE ALL THE BLOOD Emperor Penguin SHATTER THE ILLUSION OF INTEGRITY Fair, Jad and David MONSTER SONGS FOR CHILDREN Fair, Jad and Jason Willett ENJOYABLE SONGS Family of God WE ARE THE WORLD Flap FLAP AM IN THE HOUSE / SPOTLIGHT ON AGONYTHON Godspeed You Black Emperor! LIFT YOUR SKINNY FISTS LIKE ANTENNAE TO HEAVEN (2cd) Junior Varsity BAM BAM BAM! Kings X FAITH HOPE LOVE Krebs, Pete and the Gossamer Wings SWEET ONA ROSE Langille, Suzanne w/Loren MazzaCane Connors THE ENCHANTED FOREST Life in a Blender TWO LEGS BAD Lothars MEET THE LOTHARS Loud Family ATTRACTIVE NUISANCE Matt Pond PA I THOUGHT YOU WERE SLEEPING Megadeth Insomnia/Prince of Darkness promo CD Men at Work TWO HEARTS Metallica AND JUSTICE FOR ALL Mighty Lemon Drops LAUGHTER Minmae LUCY IN THE SKY WITH DNA HELIXES EP Minmae VONSACHIANG Mulcahy, Mark SMILESUNSET Plastico BOOMERANG Polkaholics s/t Push Stars, the AFTER THE PARTY Seely JULIE ONLY Semiautomatic s/t Silverfish ORGAN FAN Sir Millard Mulch 50 INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING THEMES FROM A CHEAP AMUSEMENT PARK FOR ROBOTS AND ALIENS, VOL. 1 Soft Boys UNDERWATER MOONLIGHT Sparks SPARKS/A WOOFER IN TWEETERS CLOTHING Suicidal Tendencies WHAT YOU NEEDS A FRIEND Toog TOOG6633 v/a HATE PEOPLE LIKE US (People Like Us rmx, reinterp) Vinnie & the Stardusters NOVELTY MUSIC FOR CASUAL SEX - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::glibby glop gloopy nibby nobby noopy la la la la lo:: ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #177 *******************************