From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #171 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, July 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 171 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Free Will? ["Phil Gerrard" ] Re: [loud-fans] Free Will? [JRT456@aol.com] RE: [loud-fans] message from mark [Roger Winston ] [loud-fans] McGoohan & a plea for help... ["Phil Gerrard" ] RE: [loud-fans] message from mark [Dan McCarthy ] Re: [loud-fans] a few small things [jenny grover ] [loud-fans] Jimmy Eat World [Jer Fairall ] [loud-fans] flying discs and jaded critics [Steve Holtebeck ] [loud-fans] Gagnon at CB's Gallery [Dan Sallitt ] [loud-fans] bumbershooters? [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] a few small things [Dan McCarthy ] Re: [loud-fans] Gagnon at CB's Gallery ["Andrew Hamlin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:15:52 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] Free Will? Matthew wrote: > This guy can't be serious--is he unaware that Peart (at least) is a > hardcore Randian Objectivist and freethinker? 'Randian' as in Ayn Rand or as in James Randi? :-) I seem to remember reading somewhere that Peart had cooled off a little from his adolescent infatuation with the works of Ayn Rand. I also always find it amusing to see the words 'freethinker' and 'Objectivist' used in the same sentence, since Objectivism these days is not so much a philosophy (however half-baked) as a quasi- religious cult. If you read through the average Objectivist tract and replace the words 'free market' with the word 'God' you'll see what I mean: there's a similar level of blind faith involved. It's hardly what I'd consider critical or 'free' thinking. I haven't sat down and analysed Rush lyrics for a *long* time, but I do remember that the one and only time I read 'The Fountainhead' - which was when I was in my teens and didn't know anything about Ayn Rand - I'd thought it must have been some sort of religious allegory, so maybe a similar confusion in the case of Rush is understandable. Tangentially, I recently saw a complete re-run of 'The Prisoner' on TV, which is something else I hadn't come across since my teens, and I was slightly disturbed to find what I *think* is a quasi- Objectivist subtext to the series. Does anybody out there know whether Patrick McGoohan has ever expressed any views on the subject or elaborated on the philosophy underlying the show? peace & love phil Phil Gerrard Senior Admissions Officer The External Programme University of London E-mail: p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk 'Phone: 020 7862 8369 Fax: 020 7862 8363 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:56:05 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Free Will? I've seen a few Objectivist nods to McGoohan's entire body of work, and there's several Libertarian writings on "The Prisoner." The episode with the election seems to be really popular with both groups. Personally, I think McGoohan's long association with "Columbo" reflects some serious political beliefs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:05:05 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: RE: [loud-fans] message from mark At Monday 7/23/2001 08:59 PM -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >ps: Rose forced us to go so _Jurassic Park III_ last week. It was fun but >dopey, of course - but Rose made the priceless and accurate remark that it >was structured rather like a porn film: dino attack, fifteen minutes of >ignorable plot, dino attack, fifteen minutes of ignorable plot, dino >attack... You folks haven't seen any porn movies since the 80s, have you? Much of today's porn (I've heard) doesn't even try for a plot, ignorable or otherwise. I'm sure the producers of American Bukkake, for example, would be happy to explain to you how things have changed... Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:18:07 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] McGoohan & a plea for help... JRT wrote: > I've seen a few Objectivist nods to McGoohan's entire body of work, > and there's several Libertarian writings on "The Prisoner." The > episode with the election seems to be really popular with both groups. Yes, that was the one which really made me think about the issue, although there's a *lot* in the final episode which could be read as libertarian / Objectivist allegory. It's interesting because most popular entertainment in that kind of paranoid, dystopian vein has tended to come from a left-wing perspective, although that's now changing as conspiracy theories are as much the territory of the political right these days. It seems to me that the underlying philosophy of 'The Prisoner' is very much to do with the triumph of the strong individual over collectivism: not at all what you'd regard as a left-wing message, although I guess the psychedelic trappings and generalised mumblings about personal freedom may have confused the issue and alienated some of the people who you'd have thought would be natural supporters of such a perspective. > Personally, I think McGoohan's long association with "Columbo" > reflects some serious political beliefs. Oh, I'd forgotten that - he's a drinking buddy of Peter Falk's, right? I think I remember seeing one episode of 'Columbo' he'd directed where he crammed in 'Prisoner' references like Brian DePalma crams in Hitchcock references. Ugly stuff. Lyrical fragment now stuck in my head, and I'm going insane trying to remember where it comes from: 'working two jobs overtime just to prove that nothing matters'. Anybody...? peace & love phil Phil Gerrard Senior Admissions Officer The External Programme University of London E-mail: p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk 'Phone: 020 7862 8369 Fax: 020 7862 8363 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:19:44 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things Miles writes: This was the second rock show I'd seen in Indianapolis (the other being Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band in Nov. '99), and I must note that these Hoosiers, however enthusiastic, are a group of people born without rhythm, unable to master clapping of any sort. They also sport big hair and mullets to an incredible degree. My home region, the South, seems to be most closely associated with these unfortunate hairstyles, but they seem to occur in much higher percentages in Indiana. This also reminds me of how one of my grad school friends, Paul Gasparini, was insistent that the hicks of the South were mere amateurs compared to the hicks of his native upstate New York. Of course, the largest mullet known to mankind was sported by Wire bassist Graham Lewis in 1986-87, and he's neither a Hoosier nor a Southerner. <><><><><><><><><><><><> On the scant occasions where I've engaged in such consideration, I've generally considered the mullet to be much more a midwestern thing than a southern thing. I grew up in Wisconsin, and there were plenty of rednecks there (though, when I lived in TN, I often got the impression when telling people about this that they thought I was attempting some sort of low-consequence yankee ruse). Lest anyone forget, Axl Rose, who, though he does not sport a mullet, clearly embodies the *soul* thereof, is from Indiana. As to Graham Lewis having a neckwarmer in the '80s, the fashion vector that led to Mulletainia Ascendant went something like this: I. The Scaling Back of The Mohawk by New Wave Musicians & Fans II. Road Warrior Sequels III. Professional Wrestlers & White NFL Football Players Who Were, Like, Totally Radical or Outrageous* IV. Guys With Either Muscle Cars or Trucks That Have Been Given Names So, though by '86 - '87 this was already in free flow, making Mr. Lewis perhaps a bit late in the game, he would still have been at the top of that particular Rock & Roll Food Chain. citing "artistic differences" the band broke up in May, - --Dennis * Now covered by the term "extreme" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:09:22 -0400 From: "Brett Milano" Subject: [loud-fans] RE:Wire Just have to chime in and agree that A BELL IS A CUP is the best Wire album. What I lovve about it is that, while the songs are written in a standard pop kind of way and delivered to provoke the usual range of emotional pop responses, the lyrics appear to be entirely non sequitors. That always struck me as a pretty subversive thing to do. Btw, I think I wrote something for some fanzine in 1989 and said that the two best catchpohrases of the year were "Elegance of line and sense of place" and "I shift blame to the worm in the bottle." Them were the days... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:53:04 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: RE: [loud-fans] message from mark At 07:05 AM 7/24/01 -0600, Roger Winston wrote: >At Monday 7/23/2001 08:59 PM -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > >>ps: Rose forced us to go so _Jurassic Park III_ last week. It was fun but >>dopey, of course - but Rose made the priceless and accurate remark that it >>was structured rather like a porn film: dino attack, fifteen minutes of >>ignorable plot, dino attack, fifteen minutes of ignorable plot, dino >>attack... > >You folks haven't seen any porn movies since the 80s, have you? Much of >today's porn (I've heard) doesn't even try for a plot, ignorable or >otherwise. I'm sure the producers of American Bukkake, for example, would >be happy to explain to you how things have changed... Plus, I don't think I've ever seen a porn movie that involved repeated dino attacks. But where can I get them!?!? It sounds like the perfect marriage! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:05:07 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: > As to Graham Lewis having a neckwarmer in the '80s, the fashion vector that led > to Mulletainia Ascendant went something like this: > > I. The Scaling Back of The Mohawk by New Wave Musicians & Fans > II. Road Warrior Sequels > III. Professional Wrestlers & White NFL Football Players Who Were, Like, > Totally Radical or Outrageous* > IV. Guys With Either Muscle Cars or Trucks That Have Been Given Names you seem to have missed the importance of the shag haircut in the 70's Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:51:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jer Fairall Subject: [loud-fans] Jimmy Eat World Two years ago I raved about Jimmy Eat World's last album CLARITY and eventually (thanks in great part to the tape swap, I'm sure) made a few converts. Well, their new album, BLEED AMERICAN, is released today and after having spent the past weekend listening to it nonstop (thanks John B!) it looks like it's time for me to rave about them again. I was always surprised that "Lucky Denver Mint," the single from CLARITY, was never a gigantic hit but I suppose it didn't help that the album itself was much more complex and expansive than the single suggested (and thus would have resulted in a lot of disgruntled consumers returning the album, grumbling "the rest of it doesn't sound like the one on the radio"), but BLEED AMERICAN is an entire album filled with catchy pop songs that are impossible not to sing along to. With a big push from DreamWorks, their new label, and an opening slot on Blink 182's summer tour, they seem poised for a commercial breakthrough with this record, which would make me ecstatic. Mainstream acceptance or not, thought, it's still easily my favorite new album I've heard so far all year. Jer ===== Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:31:02 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] flying discs and jaded critics Dan McCarthy wrote: > At 12:31 AM 7/23/01 -0600, Stewart Mason wrote: > >Frisbie are from Chicago and they're hellaciously boring. Nothing that > >plain sucks, mind you, but you'll forget what the album sounds like ten > >minutes after it ends. > > Thanks for the input; I was contemplating whether to just buy it > sound-unheard, but you've convinced me to wait until I have a chance to > take a listen first. There are some mp3s at http://www.digfrisbie.com/sounds.html, so you can spin to see if it's your thing. The song I'd suggest downloading first is "To See And Be Seen". I actually like the album myself. Probably not the most original music you'll ever hear, but it's pleasant and poppy, and goes down fairly easily for me. Your mileage, etc.. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:28:54 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things Jen sez: you seem to have missed the importance of the shag haircut in the 70's <><><><><><><><> In fine coincidence, my pal Scott (a.k.a. Lilith, for those of you who might listen to the Sub Rosa catalog, to drop a name so obscure as to possibly not constitute name dropping (I guess I'll have to resort to other means to fulfill my "droppings" quotient)) forwarded me a substantial collection of mullet haiku (and I know how much loud-fans love haiku (hey, maybe these qualify as "droppings")), of which the following are some of the tastier: O! SQUIRREL brother, Your tail, my hair. We are one. Yet I must eat you. I liked that foreign legion movie so much, I grew me one them hats. Brown edged tank top sticks to my white clumpy armpits Somehow I get laid. My hair is slammin like Stone Cold. Can I get a Hell yeah? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Metallica is for first graders. Nothing rocks harder than Winger. Dogs urinate where they so choose. And so do I. Red and blue lights flash. New white tank top tucks neatly into tight black jeans: redneck romeo. Teen runaway, I hate my dad. Yet I am one. Fly, thunderbird, fly. Short like your schooling. Long like your prison sentence. The penal haircut. You smoke me up and jerk me off. You are the best, and I love you, sis. With long hair in place how else can I rebel? Hand me the bong uncle. Short for dad. Long for the daughter mom always wanted. Everyone's happy. - --Dennis, sportin' my summer buzz cut ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:34:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, jenny grover wrote: > Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: > > As to Graham Lewis having a neckwarmer in the '80s, the fashion vector that led > > to Mulletainia Ascendant went something like this: > > > > I. The Scaling Back of The Mohawk by New Wave Musicians & Fans > > II. Road Warrior Sequels > > III. Professional Wrestlers & White NFL Football Players Who Were, Like, > > Totally Radical or Outrageous* > > IV. Guys With Either Muscle Cars or Trucks That Have Been Given Names > > you seem to have missed the importance of the shag haircut in the 70's Can anyone verify a mullet earlier than David Bowie, _Aladdin Sane_? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::glibby glop gloopy nibby nobby noopy la la la la lo:: np: Boards of Canada _Music Has the Right to Children_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:24:48 -0500 From: "CJ" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey: > Can anyone verify a mullet earlier than David Bowie, _Aladdin Sane_? Here? http://store.corbis.com/prodconfig/zoom.asp?imageID=11526812&alphaImgID=SF35 While I was peacefully driving 55, some redneck from South Carolina gave me the finger last week and hurt my feelings, but I got even with the world by cutting off an SUV. Cheaply yours, CJ np: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1567403506/qid=996023825/sr=1-11/ref= sc_b_11/107-2494068-2752549 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:51:22 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: [loud-fans] Gagnon at CB's Gallery NYC loud-fans: Rick Gagnon is in town for the Legal Action art exhibition at CB's Gallery, where one of his paintings is hanging. He invites everyone to join him at the exhibition opening on Wednesday (tomorrow) from 6 to 9 pm. There's no admission charge during those hours; if you can't make it, the exhibition will be at CB's Gallery for a month. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:27:08 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] bumbershooters? any loud-fans planning on attending bumbershoot in seattle this year? the line-up includes a lot of performers who have gotten favorable mention on here (www.bumbershoot.org). i'm trying to decide whether or not to go. i'm leaning toward going, but am trying to work out some logistics, expenses, etc. before i decide. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:03:43 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things At 04:28 PM 7/24/01 -0500, Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: >In fine coincidence, my pal Scott (a.k.a. Lilith, for those of you who might >listen to the Sub Rosa catalog, to drop a name so obscure as to possibly not >constitute name dropping (I guess I'll have to resort to other means to >fulfill ... Is this the same Lilith that appears on the "L'inacheve" compilation with David Toop, Locust, and Scorn? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:32:56 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Gagnon at CB's Gallery >NYC loud-fans: Rick Gagnon is in town for the Legal Action art >exhibition at CB's Gallery, where one of his paintings is hanging. He >invites everyone to join him at the exhibition opening on Wednesday >(tomorrow) from 6 to 9 pm. There's no admission charge during those >hours; if you can't make it, the exhibition will be at CB's Gallery for >a month. - Dan From the non-NYC contingent, tell Rick congrats, and tell him to post more often! I've got a snapshot of his Aunt Maureen, Andy Yum. Eat God. Become God. Why don't we eat God. Our mothers serve us food and tell us that they worked very hard to make it, so we should enjoy it and eat it all up. But, despite the fact that we've worked MUCH harder on making God, we still can't bring ourselves to eat him? Are we also afraid of "You are what you eat"? - --Edward Martin III on that bumper sticker from the Frontier Restaurant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:32:45 -0700 (PDT) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a few small things At 7:03 PM 7/24/1, Dan McCarthy wrote: >At 04:28 PM 7/24/01 -0500, Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: >>In fine coincidence, my pal Scott (a.k.a. Lilith, for those of you who might >>listen to the Sub Rosa catalog, to drop a name so obscure as to possibly not >>constitute name dropping (I guess I'll have to resort to other means to >>fulfill >... > >Is this the same Lilith that appears on the "L'inacheve" compilation with >David Toop, Locust, and Scorn? That's the one. I think Dan & I may be the only ones on this list besides yourself who listen to the Sub Rosa catalog, though... Matt If law, however, presented nothing but a collection of prescriptions to obey rulers, it would find some difficulty in insuring acceptance and obedience. Well, the legislators confounded in one code the...maxims which represent principles of morality and social union wrought out as a result of life in common, and the mandates which are meant to ensure external existence to inequality. Customs, absolutely essential to the very being of society, are, in the code, cleverly intermingled with usages imposed by the ruling caste, and both claim equal respect from the crowd. "Do not kill," says the code, and hastens to add, "And pay tithes to the priest." "Do not steal," says the code, and immediately after, "He who refuses to pay taxes, shall have his hand struck off." Such was law; and it has maintained its two-fold character to this day...Its character is the skillful commingling of customs useful to society, customs which have no need of law to insure respect, with other customs only useful to rulers... Peter Kropotkin, _Law and Authority_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:45:10 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] bumbershooters? >any loud-fans planning on attending bumbershoot in seattle this year? >the line-up includes a lot of performers who have gotten favorable >mention on here (www.bumbershoot.org). i'm trying to decide whether or >not to go. i'm leaning toward going, but am trying to work out some >logistics, expenses, etc. before i decide. Ween, Low, Cat Power, Taj Mahal, Rufus Wainwright, Me'Shell Ndegiocello, Neko Case, Guided By Voices, and Spalding Gray all look like winners. Perhaps Dave Eggers--he's appearing with Sarah Vowell, so that tips it. But I too have logistics to work out. I must persist on my line that John Hammond is not a "Mississippi Delta blues man," however, Andy You Dropped a Bomb on Me The Gap Band Head Prince Atomic Dog George Clinton Super Freak Rick James Pull up to the Bumper Grace Jones Doo Wa Ditty (Blow That Thing) [sic] Zapp Working Day and Night Michael Jackson Let It Whip Dazz Band Genius of Love Tom Tom Club Drop the Bomb Trouble Funk [--a list of "Funkiest Jams of the '80s!" at http://music.windowsmedia.msn.com/topten/?topten=464371 ] ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #171 *******************************