From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #124 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, June 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 124 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] poor scott (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever [Cardinal007@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20[loud-fans]=20aube=20vs=20reed=20vs=20=3F=20rou n?= =?UTF-8?Q?d=20two=20(+=20awful=20attemptatOTing)?= [] Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever [Michael Bowen ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] It was... [Michael Bowen ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Moulin Rouge [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Re: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20[loud-fans]=20aube=20vs=20reed=20vs=20=3F=20rou n?= =?UTF-8?Q?d=20two=20(+=20awful=20attemptatOTing)?= [] [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever [Tiger Reel ] [loud-fans] poor scott (addendum) [Dana L Paoli ] [loud-fans] Let's argue movies [Richard Gagnon ] Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Let's agree about movies [Chris Prew ] Re: [loud-fans] Bad movies / Pacino / Cox [Dan Sallitt ] Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Good movies, for a change. [jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] poor scott (ns) The "mailbox problem" excuse is a nice thing for Sue to say, but this is so sad!! [from the loudfamily website, "Ask Scott" section] >This is your opportunity to Ask Scott anything you want. Please keep in mind that due to the large volume >of mail, not all questions can be answered; also, it may take a while for Scott to get around to your >question. Send your e-mail to askscott @ loudfamily.com >Note #2: Did you try submitting a question to Ask Scott anytime between mid-May and mid-June? It >appears that there was a problem with the Ask Scott mailbox, and no e-mails were received during that >time. Please re-submit it. Thanks! - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:39:04 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever BUT: my two votes for worst movie ever are two early 1970's films called MYRA BRECKINRIDGE and SEXTETTE. the first stars raquel welch as a male to female transsexual and co-stars rex reed (never see a film that a critic had anything to do with. see also: roger ebert and BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS) >>>>>>>>> You're not saying that BTVOTD is bad, are you??? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:45:22 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever In a message dated 6/14/01 1:33:29 PM, tigerreel@yahoo.com, commenting on THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE writes: >to the gratuitous girl on girl (oh, ok >that's actually a selling point to me) scene (1) I skipped the film with glee. You're now telling me there are scenes of *girl-on-girl* ? (2) Did someone actually include a movie with *girl-on-girl* on the "worst movie" thread? Let's not discuss the Supreme Court anymore. There are members of this list who are undermining sacred American values........ gimme more, C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Tiger Reel wrote: > (never see a film that a critic had anything to do with. see also: > roger ebert and BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS) Au contraire! BTVOTD is a classic! The Carrie Nations rock hard! I once had a dream of covering "Find It" b/w "(Listen To The) Flower People" but realized that I can't play an instrument... In the long run, J. Mallon P.S. Isn't it great that this "your favortie film sucks! your suckiest film is my favorite" nonsense could go on interminibly? P.P.S. "It's" means it is. "Its" means belongs to it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:55:38 -0500 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] 4-Track Recording > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Douglas Stanley wrote: > > Is there such a thing as a 4 track sound card? > Yes, but certainly not cheap. Echo audio makes Mona (4 in, 6 out) and Layla (8 in, 8 out) (see http://www.echoaudio.com) but they're both in the $1,000 range. ...and now for something completely different - is it possible to save a tape that has been sitting in an auto cassette deck in water overnight? The Houston flooding has claimed my car, and with it my only copy of Lolita Nation. I assume my only alternative is to transfer the reels to a new tape shell, but will it be worth the effort? Is it already too far gone? Blub blub, Russ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:52:58 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20[loud-fans]=20aube=20vs=20reed=20vs=20=3F=20rou n?= =?UTF-8?Q?d=20two=20(+=20awful=20attemptatOTing)?= In a message dated 6/14/01 10:27:11 AM, Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com writes: >Sharples: >... Mr. Thomas just the other day further emasculated the non-establishment >clause (separation of >church/state) beyond recongnition via some highly disingenuous intellecutal >dishonestly? > ><><><><><><><> > >What exactly did he opine? The nutshell -- local community w/ 1 school must provide same "group access" [for after-school activities] for church groups as others (reading club gets room 401 at 5:00 pm for meeting, church group has to have access too). Nutshells being nearly useless, I offer this anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:46:33 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever At 08:49 AM 6/14/2001 -0400, Aaron Milenski wrote: >>>Neither of you have seen Blood Sucking Freaks, have you? It's easily the >>>worst >>>movie I've ever seen, and very probably worse than the 35,000 movies >>>that came >>>out this or any other year that I haven't. > >I've seen it. Yeah, it's pretty awful, but there's no way you can call a >movie like that "worst ever" because it doesn't PRETEND to be any >good. To truly be the worst, a movie (or any piece of art) has to not >only be awful to watch and offend the sensibilities, in my opinion, but >also has to be a huge dissapointment by being a waste of talent or >horrible distortion of source material, AND an insult to the intelligence. > >How about something like YOU'VE GOT MAIL? EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES? Therefore, BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, q.e.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:55:38 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever >BUT: my two votes for worst movie ever are two early >1970's films called MYRA BRECKINRIDGE and SEXTETTE. >the first stars raquel welch as a male to female >transsexual and co-stars rex reed (never see a film >that a critic had anything to do with. see also: roger >ebert and BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS) > >>You're not saying that BTVOTD is bad, are you??? Hell, I was going to say that I even enjoyed the ridiculous MYRA BRECKINRIDGE! Danny Peary had an interesting assessment of just why BTVOTD was not a good film, and he makes excellent points. I just wish he would have conceded that even if it's a bad film with no narrative consistency, it still has some really funny moments, and any movie with an all-female rock and roll band has a reason to exist. Ebert's connection to this movie shows the hypocrisy of his 80s rants against movies like FRIDAY THE 13th and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE. The gun fellatio scene (which he wrote) is easily as offensive, if not moreso, than anything in the movies he criticized. Given my own sensibilities, I can't think of anything I've seen that's worse. I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE may have been a painful film to watch, but at its core its values were nowehere near as exploitive as those of BTVOTD. In fact, the original title was DAY OF THE WOMAN, which obviously was changed because of the obvious fact that there's a very small female audience for gory horror movies. It's rather disturbing that Ebert fails to see the difference. I agree with Ebert about those high-protein diets, at least. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poor scott (ns) - --- Dana L Paoli wrote: > The "mailbox problem" excuse is a nice thing for Sue > to say, but this is so sad!! Heh -- it really was a mailbox problem. After realizing that askscott@loudfamily.com hadn't even received any *spam* for a month (definitely unusual), I tried sending a test message. 'Twas never received, and it didn't bounce. It's fixed now, so feel free to submit questions. I really hope no one from, say, DreamWorks tried e-mailing askscott to offer the LF a huge and lucrative contract. And MOULIN ROUGE sucked. I loved ROMEO + JULIET and went into MR fully expecting I would love it too, but within the first five minutes, I got a horrible sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach (the scene where Toulouse and his colleagues were introduced, and Christian "fixes" their musical by singing "The Sound of Music" theme). It never went away until the movie ended. If I'm lucky, some day I will be able to expunge the spectacle of Jim Broadbent singing "Like a Virgin" from my memory. As far as movies in current release go, SHREK is about a million times better. Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:53:56 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] It was... At 01:32 AM 6/14/2001 -0400, glenn mcdonald wrote: >The new Lucinda Williams hasn't done anything for me yet, either, and I've >yet to warm to the new Cowboy Junkies, but I'm liking the new Mary Chapin >Carpenter, Trisha Yearwood and Chris Whitley records. This has been the >Americana (Including Canada) Report, thank you. So how's the new MCC? I like her a lot, but her last couple of records have been spoiled by forced ambition. Is this one any better, or is she still thinking too much? MB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:01:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Moulin Rouge On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Tiger Reel wrote: > i do have to point out to jeff, however, that the > monologue in "everybody's free to wear sunscreen" was > not written by kurt vonnegut, but by a feature writer > for the chicago sun times. Which is why what I wrote was: - --He's responsible for that utterly stupid, annoying adaptation of the graduation speech Kurt Vonnegut never gave a few years back. Please note the word "never." We now return you to regular diet of film criticism. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:03:05 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 4-Track Recording On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > > Is there such a thing as a 4 track sound card? Is there possibly a cheap > > (read: freeware) software solution of combining separate WAVs into one? Or > > am I up a creek? > > As for "4-track sound card", none that I've heard of. I think you'll have > to record each track individually. Up-side - you can remix it in full > stereo. Actually, this is not a common feature of consumer sound cards, but there are plenty of pro sound cards with anywhere from 8-24 inputs, probably even more. bad news: most are not cheap; many work with only a limited set of software. caveat emptor. this link (to musician's friend, a vendor i've been fairly happy with when i knew exactly what i was buying) may help give you an idea of what's out there. little bit of good news: if you have just been plugging into a consumer audio card, you're likely to find the A/D converters on even the lowest end pro cards give you much better results. I would definitley recommend finding a local vendor with a good return policy though. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/search/rec/computer/010614105118209164024201943312?FIND=EBAX&q=c - -- d. p.s. Joe -- I know I owe you a response. My sked's been kinda insane, but I have an unexpected night off tonight. Will take a look this eve. = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:07:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] Re: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20[loud-fans]=20aube=20vs=20reed=20vs=20=3F=20rou n?= =?UTF-8?Q?d=20two=20(+=20awful=20attemptatOTing)?= On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 Cardinal007@aol.com wrote: > Nutshells being nearly useless... Except to nuts. Sorry, couldn't resist... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ np: Continental Drifters _Better Day_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:08:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Tiger Reel Subject: [loud-fans] Re: worst movie ever i cannot lie. i do not enjoy that film. however, i doubt it would crack my worst 10 films since it obviously has entertainment value. - --- Dana L Paoli wrote: > BUT: my two votes for worst movie ever are two early > 1970's films called MYRA BRECKINRIDGE and SEXTETTE. > the first stars raquel welch as a male to female > transsexual and co-stars rex reed (never see a film > that a critic had anything to do with. see also: > roger > ebert and BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS) > >>>>>>>>> > > You're not saying that BTVOTD is bad, are you??? > > --dana > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:18:00 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] poor scott (addendum) Re: my recent post about the "Ask Scott" section of the loudfamily.com website. It's been pointed out to me that my post could be interpreted as being insulting to Sue, the webmistress. Just so there's no question, that wasn't the intent. I thought it was amusing (in a Jay Leno, "funny headlines" sense) that a note about the vast volumes of mail received by Scott was immediately followed by a note about the total lack of mail to Scott. Sue puts a lot of work into the website, and deserves a lot of credit for continuing to use her time and money to support the band, and to respond to the endless queries about Scott's new solo album. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:46:20 -0400 From: Richard Gagnon Subject: [loud-fans] Let's argue movies Stuart opines: >I know Tiger Reel. Tiger Reel is a good friend of mine, and he's dead-on >about Moulin Rouge. Consider it a litmus test for the humanist soul. If >you don't like it, I feel sorry for you. Now, if we could only get Baz to >make movies faster than once every five years. I don't usually appreciate >anything that appeals to the teen masses, but I am amazed at Baz's ability >to make sophisticated movies that somehow also grab those youths in spite >of themselves. Call it the relief of seeing at least one genius whose work >I adore getting a little commercial success and mass recognition. (Unlike >the musical genius whose work has brought us all together here). Baz Luhrmann "sophisticated"? This has the be the most preposterous thing I've heard in a long time. I like the double standard condescension to teens. Sure, a lot of teens are sophisticated, but I think those ones are likely to see right through the nutrition-free prattlings of ole Baz. Steve mentions: >Off to see Atlantis and Tomb Raider this Friday and Time And Tide next, >with a trade-off of Moulin Rouge in there somewhere because my wife is not >enthusiastic about seeing another film by the guy who made Once Upon A >Time In China. Yeah, Moulin Rouge for a (non-american) Tsui Hark is quite the trade off,to say the least. Okay, I'm curious, benefit of the doubt time: what are her reasons? I found that Once upon a time in Chine succeeds on every level that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon fails: it's about something more interesting than a magic sword (colonialism, from the colonised point of view), it focuses on the interesting characters instead of relegating them to the background, doesn't overdo the damn wirework and ends on a satisfying note. Miles compiles: > 1) Raising Arizona > 2) Apocalypse Now (still sort of dreading Coppola's "expanded" Cannes >version) > 3) Brazil > 4) The Godfather (I & II) > 5) Fight Club > 6) Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me > 7) The Seventh Seal > 8) A Night at the Opera > 9) The Adventures of Baron Munchausen >10) Bringing Up Baby > >I look at that and I'm amazed that Fellini, Kurosawa, Egoyan, Scorsese, >Kubrick, Hartley, Malick, and Sayles didn't land anything on that list, but >I like 'em a lot too. FIGHT CLUB pushed MATEWAN off the top ten. All fine choices, several bubbling under my own top ten, except... Phil shares: >My own list of most disliked movies would have to include 'The >Piano', 'Shakespeare in Love', and 'The Man Who Fell to Earth' >alongside such major studio duds as 'Armageddon', 'Deep Impact', >'Fatal Attraction', and 'Basic Instinct' (although generally I like >Verhoeven, as long as we can draw a veil over 'Showgirls'). I'm with you on the corset pictures. Rog reminds: > >No list of big budget/name cast bad movies would be complete without >mentioning CONTACT. What a load of twaddle, and Matthew "Bongos" >McConaughey to boot. I know this movie has a lot of supporters, but >I couldn't stand it. "Scientists have to have faith too!" - sheesh. >Even South Park made fun of it. Which brings me to my own top ten (chronologically) and bottom seven (randomly): The Big Sleep Strangers on a Train Le Salaire de la Peur (Wages of Fear) The Killing The Trial The Manchurian Candidate Top Secret Heathers Crimes and Misdemeanors Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with me and my bottom seven (all I can think of for now): La Strada (I'm sorry, I get the willies when I see Fellini's wife act). The Man who fell to earth (most pretentious movie I've ever seen. I like Don't look now by the same director, though) William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet (pretentious, predictable, and not because I knew the plot, shallow...) The Fifth Element (unfunny, superficial, Milla Jovovich, more willies) The Cook, the Thief...(when someone tells you "the costumes by Gaultier are fabulous" (see also The Fifth Element), expect them to be the highlight of the film, if you know what I mean) Contact (wrong director, wrong approach, crappy ending, every second of McConaughey is painful) Fight Club (we've been over this before, but the last act ruins the whole film, which was pretty wonderful up to that point) Dead Poets Society (same thing with that contrived suicide; killing someone off to make his films more "relevant" seems to be a favorite Peter Weir trick) Rick - -- This month, the Skinny Nameless Punk goes to a very Strange place in a dazzling full-color adventure. Check it out at http://www.geocities.com/jack_ruttan/strange.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:00:59 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever In a message dated 6/14/01 11:17:05 AM, amilenski@hotmail.com writes: << Ebert's connection to this movie shows the hypocrisy of his 80s rants against movies like FRIDAY THE 13th and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE. The gun fellatio scene (which he wrote) is easily as offensive, if not moreso, than anything in the movies he criticized...>> Here's a beloved topic of mine. Also consider that Ebert followed up a decade of calling for censorship by then celebrating the importance of us all seeing "Henry: Portrait Of A Serial Killer." The difference between "Henry" and "I Spit On Your Grave"? Supercool detached victimization of women vs. rapists depicted as horrific goddamn idiots. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:20:38 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Let's agree about movies On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 01:46 PM, Richard Gagnon wrote: Top Ten Films: > Top Secret This is the Zucker brothers comedy, right ?(I assume there are probably a dozen movies titled "Top Secret " out there) This always seems to get horribly panned in reviews (excluding Ebert), but I consider it to be one of the funniest movies ever made. "Deja Vu, I'll always remember you!" CP ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:26:14 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever ><< Ebert's connection to this movie shows the hypocrisy of his 80s rants >against movies like FRIDAY THE 13th and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE. The gun >fellatio scene (which he wrote) is easily as offensive, if not moreso, than >anything in the movies he criticized...>> > >Here's a beloved topic of mine. Also consider that Ebert followed up a >decade >of calling for censorship by then celebrating the importance of us all >seeing >"Henry: Portrait Of A Serial Killer." The difference between "Henry" and "I >Spit On Your Grave"? Supercool detached victimization of women vs. rapists >depicted as horrific goddamn idiots. A similar issue points out the absolute idiocy of the MPAA. STRAW DOGS, a movie that tends to divide viewers pretty strongly, had about 30 seconds cut to get an R rating. The film has a scene where the Susan George character is raped by two men, one a former boyfriend. The first rape, by the former boyfriend, is filmed as if it's a love scene, and she appears not to realy know whether she likes or dislike it. The second, by his friend, is clearly violent and horrible. Our beloved MPAA insisted it be cut in order to get an R. In other words, it's OK to show rape as not such a bad thing, but we must shield our children from seeing it as the horrible experience it is. If there's anything more backwards than that, I don't know what it is. The MPAA has also been known to demand cuts because of certain IDEAS, not necessarily sex and/or violence. TRUE ROMANCE originally ended with the Patricia Arquette character shooting a cop. The MPAA made them edit that scene to appear that one of the bad guys shot the cop. In other words, they would not allow a film in which someone shoots a cop and gets off scot free be shown to our youth. By the way, I totally agree about HENRY, which in fact had some intentional humor that makes me question the critical opinion of it as a film that does not sympathize with its killer. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:41:30 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] King Crimson alert (off-topic) Not that many of you are within easy driving distance of Nashville, BUT... King Crimson is playing four shows (one each evening tonight through Sunday) at Nashville's best club, 12th & Porter. I just spoke with John Bruton, the club's booker, who informed me that due to a problem with the online ticket sale, there are *FIFTY* tickets still available at the door for *each* show. Therefore, if you were thinking of going but saw on the website that the shows were sold out, they're not. Like last year's series of KC@12th&P shows, it's a rare chance to see rock musicians of this caliber in such an intimate setting, so if you're interested and *can* skeddadle here, do it! Any of you on Elephant-Talk might want to pass this information on to that list, if it hasn't mentioned there already. going Friday and now maybe Saturday too, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:03:25 -0500 From: triggercut Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever JRT456@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/14/01 11:17:05 AM, amilenski@hotmail.com writes: > > << Ebert's connection to this movie shows the hypocrisy of his 80s rants > against movies like FRIDAY THE 13th and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE. The gun > fellatio scene (which he wrote) is easily as offensive, if not moreso, than > anything in the movies he criticized...>> No way in hell it's more offensive. The gun fellatio scene was nothing new for Russ Meyer (BYVOTD's famous director) and perfectly in keeping with his unique, uh, style. It isn't a scene, or even a movie, that looks like anything but a silly bit of satire and goofiness. It certainly doesn't portray it's events as "real", as I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE does, or with the veneer of reality of the "dead teenager" genre. In the actual review, Ebert's dismissal of FRIDAY THE 13th was based on the fact that it was about the fifth "dead teenager" movie he'd seen in a month, and that it was nowhere near as good as HALLOWEEN, the king of the genre. Ebert has never shied away from senseless violence and/or stupidity--he just looks for justification of same (he really dug ROBOCOP, f'rinstance...) He looooooved REANIMATOR, praising it for not backing down after laying the groundwork for the gore, and then gleefully going way, way over the top. He also loved INFRAMAN and a host of other "bad" movies. > > Here's a beloved topic of mine. Also consider that Ebert followed up a decade > of calling for censorship by then celebrating the importance of us all seeing > "Henry: Portrait Of A Serial Killer." The difference between "Henry" and "I > Spit On Your Grave"? Supercool detached victimization of women vs. rapists > depicted as horrific goddamn idiots. Links to this material? I've been reading Ebert's essays and reviews since the early 1980's, and have found him to at least be very consistent. His knock on NC-17 movies like SHOWGIRLS wasn't due to the nudity, but was instead due to the fact that he found fault with making a skinflick that wasn't titillating. He liked other NC17's like HENRY AND JUNE (speaking of girl on girl), ANGEL HEART (uncut version), REQUIEM FOR A DREAM, etc. etc. He *has* taken Jack Valente to task quite a bit, mostly based on the inconsistency of the ratings system--the fact that violence is quite a bit more acceptable than nudity and sex for instance, but I'm not sure where or when he's ever advocated censorship. Michael Medved on the other hand... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:24:09 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bad movies / Pacino / Cox > > Anyone see HIGHWAY PATROLMAN? > > Yes - odd movie, in that it's completely unrecognisable as Alex > Cox's work, or indeed as the work of a non-native filmmaker: it > really does look and feel like a completely homegrown Mexican > product. Not bad for all that, though. I love HIGHWAY PATROLMAN - it's my favorite Cox film. > Reconsidering my own top 10 movie list after seeing 'A Bout de > Souffle' recently for the first time in years and *loathing* it... How interesting. I never liked Godard, but a few months ago I resaw A BOUT DE SOUFFLE and was surprised to find myself liking it.... - - Dan (pro THEY CAME FROM WITHIN and THE HOLE; anti TERMS OF ENDEARMENT) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:13:51 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: [loud-fans] Good movies, for a change. >> Yes - odd movie, in that it's completely unrecognisable as Alex >> Cox's work, or indeed as the work of a non-native filmmaker: it >> really does look and feel like a completely homegrown Mexican >> product. Not bad for all that, though. > >I love HIGHWAY PATROLMAN - it's my favorite Cox film. Which reminds me to plug (again?) Alejandro Gonzalez Iqarritu's AMORES PERROS, a genuine Mexican film that opens with a bang, throws menace and heartbreak into its middle, and goes weird for the ending. One of my favorites of this year. Anyone else seen it? If it's all the same to you sir, I'll take la leche, Andy "With suicide comes all the guilt of people around you thinking they could have done something. With somebody being murdered, nobody takes some kind of guilty responsibility." - --Angelina Jolie, explaining to the Internet Movie Database that she once, in a fit of despondency, hired someone to kill her. The prospective hit man turned out, she says, "spoke very sweetly to me, he made me think about it for a month. And, after a month, other things changed in my life and I was surviving again." As reported by Amy Reiter in today's "Nothing Personal" column at salon.com . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:14:40 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever JRT456@aol.com on 2001/06/14 Thu PM 01:00:59 MDT wrote: > Also consider that Ebert followed up a decade > of calling for censorship I am surprised to learn that Ebert ever rallied for censorship. Could you please supply some hard examples and something to back them up? Thanks. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:34:55 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever In a message dated 6/14/01 1:22:39 PM, rwinston@tde.com writes, while seconding someone else who's too lazy to do his own research: <> Drop out of the Flat Earth Society and go find your own examples. Any decent Internet search should bring up plenty about how Siskel & Ebert actively tried to ban one of the most feminist movies ever made. You should also find references to how they went around claiming that "I Spit On Your Grave" will make men want to rape women. (Strangely, it was implied to be a positive development when "Do The Right Thing" was supposed to start riots all over America.) If it helps, neither of them probably believed what they were saying. Their syndicated series was just beginning, and they needed some hoopla. They had no problem burying a few indie films in the name of publicity. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:02:40 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever JRT456@aol.com, fact-checker supreme, on Date: 2001/06/14 Thu PM 02:34:55 MDT wrote: > Drop out of the Flat Earth Society That was actually my *least* favorite Thomas Dolby album. > and go find your own examples. Sorry, that's what we have you for. I'm too busy making the world safe for upper level managers who need productivity metrics. > Any decent > Internet search should bring up plenty about how Siskel & Ebert actively > tried to ban one of the most feminist movies ever made. Pretty much all I get when I do that is examples of how Ebert is anti-censorship. I think my Internet is being censored. > You should also find > references to how they went around claiming that "I Spit On Your Grave" will > make men want to rape women. (Strangely, it was implied to be a positive > development when "Do The Right Thing" was supposed to start riots all over > America.) If it helps, neither of them probably believed what they were > saying. Their syndicated series was just beginning, and they needed some > hoopla. They had no problem burying a few indie films in the name of > publicity. Thanks for the info! You da man. Hey, do you have any tapes of those old shows? Maybe Ebert loosened up since Gene kicked it. "Be free, Big Rog!" Oh, could you please request "That Smell" for me at the Skynrd show? Thx again. Later. --(Little) Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:11:11 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever At 04:34 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 6/14/01 1:22:39 PM, rwinston@tde.com writes, >while seconding someone else who's too lazy to do his own research: > ><please supply some hard examples and something to back them up?>> > >Drop out of the Flat Earth Society There's a society devoted to appreciation of Thomas Dolby's second album? Can I still join if I like THE GOLDEN AGE OF WIRELESS even better? >make men want to rape women. (Strangely, it was implied to be a positive >development when "Do The Right Thing" was supposed to start riots all over >America.) While I make no hip-man-on-the-streets claims for myself, rarely had I seen a greater example of how out of touch these high-rep white film critics were with any reality beyond their enclaves. The film itself, and any minority audience that saw it, were actually much more wise and level-headed than the reviewers, at least as far as this matter goes. Nevertheless, I don't remember those reviewers being *happy* about the prospect of Spike Lee-inspired looting and sacking. still disappointed by what a jerk Giancarlo Esposito turned out to be after he joined HOMICIDE, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:22:22 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever Miles Goosens on 2001/06/14 Thu PM 04:11:11 MDT wrote: > At 04:34 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > >Drop out of the Flat Earth Society > > There's a society devoted to appreciation of Thomas Dolby's second > album? Can I still join if I like THE GOLDEN AGE OF WIRELESS even better? High Five, dude!! We are like so on the same wavelength. Now I can almost forgive you for loving SOMETIME ANYWHERE and somewhat liking CONTACT. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:25:44 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Good movies, for a change. Andrew Hamlin wrote: > > "With suicide comes all the guilt of people around you thinking they could > have done something. With somebody being murdered, nobody takes some kind > of guilty responsibility." > > --Angelina Jolie, explaining to the Internet Movie Database that she once, > in a fit of despondency, hired someone to kill her. The prospective hit man > turned out, she says, "spoke very sweetly to me, he made me think about it > for a month. And, after a month, other things changed in my life and I was > surviving again." As reported by Amy Reiter in today's "Nothing Personal" > column at salon.com . wild. this reminds me of the "suicide by cop" scenario in a way. i've never heard of hiring a hit on yourself before, though. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:23:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever JRT wrote: > Drop out of the Flat Earth Society and go find your own examples. Any decent > Internet search should bring up plenty about how Siskel & Ebert actively > tried to ban one of the most feminist movies ever made. You should also find > references to how they went around claiming that "I Spit On Your Grave" will > make men want to rape women. I searched around and did find that they tried to ban the movie, in the sense that they couldn't believe respectable theatres were showing the film, and they did try to get theatres to stop showing it. But THAT doesn't advocate censorship. Now, if they were actively appealing the government to ban the film, that's a different story, but I didn't find that. Incidentally, I also found that feminist organizations were "outraged" at the time. > (Strangely, it was implied to be a positive > development when "Do The Right Thing" was supposed to start riots all over > America.) For the record, here's what Ebert wrote in his original review: "Some of the advance articles about this movie have suggested that it is an incitement to racial violence. Those articles say more about their authors than about the movie. I believe that any good-hearted person, white or black, will come out of this movie with sympathy for all of the characters." - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:39:32 -0400 From: "Bill Carter" Subject: [loud-fans] Stephin Merritt, Lemony Snicket, and Neil Gaiman Lemony Snicket is the author of a wonderful group of children's books, which are being published under the general title: "A Series of Unfortunate Events." They tell the story of the unfortunate Baudelaire orphans--Violet, Klaus, and Sunny(!)--and their attempts to escape the villainous Count Olaf. Many of Lemony's allusions probably go over the heads of his target audience--having a herpetologist warn the children that a Virginia wolfsnake must never, ever be allowed near a typewriter, and naming a character Esme Squalor, for instance, might be a bit too obscure for most 10- to 12-year olds. Nonetheless, my 11-year old niece loves the books almost as much as I do. In another life, Lemony Snicket goes by the name Daniel Handler, who is the author of "The Basic Eight" and "Watch Your Mouth." He's also part of Magnetic Fields. Stephin Merritt, performing as The Baudelaire Memorial Orchestra--yet another identity!--has "a cheerless song about Count Olaf'" posted on the Lemony Snicket web site (http://www.lemonysnicket.com/) And in other Merritt news, from today's "Insider": THE NOVELIST AND MAGNETIC FIELDS Thursday, June 14 11:09 a.m. Furthering a literary-rock synergy that Dave Eggers popularized by having They Might Be Giants perform at McSweeney's events, the musician Stephin Merritt of Magnetic Fields has invited novelist Neil Gaiman to read from his brand new book, American Gods (Morrow) at the Bottom Line on Sunday. It's really no surprise, when you realize that Gaiman, the British author of Stardust, Smoke and Mirrors and the Sandman series of graphic novels, shares a certain literary-rebel sensibility with Fields. (American Gods, Gain's usual blend of thriller and fantasy about the disenfranchised, attracts blurbers as diverse as actor Teller and authors Harlan Ellison and William Gibson.) No word yet on whether Gain's newfound buddy will return the favor by joining him on his book tour, which kicks off on Tuesday at the Borders in downtown Manhattan. Regards, Bill Carter bcarter@aaas.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:35:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] worst movie ever On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Roger Winston wrote: > Miles Goosens on 2001/06/14 Thu PM 04:11:11 MDT wrote: > > > At 04:34 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > > >Drop out of the Flat Earth Society > > > > There's a society devoted to appreciation of Thomas Dolby's second > > album? Can I still join if I like THE GOLDEN AGE OF WIRELESS even better? > > High Five, dude!! We are like so on the same wavelength. Now I can almost forgive you for loving SOMETIME ANYWHERE and somewhat liking CONTACT. You're all fools! Fools, I tell you! THE FLAT EARTH is much better. Soon you'll learn... Not working, really, J. Mallon ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #124 *******************************