From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #111 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, June 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 111 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) [jenny grover ] RE: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) [Michael Bowen ] Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Ministry Unplugged [Steve Holtebeck ] RE: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) [Elizabeth Setler ] Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] funny snarling clowns!- a swap review [jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) > how is aube pronounced? ">///////... . ../. . {}}}}". With a hard "{". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 03:24:01 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) glenn mcdonald wrote: > > > how is aube pronounced? > > ">///////... . ../. . {}}}}". With a hard "{". smartass ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:17:49 -0400 From: popanda@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] cell phone advice, please I am going to be needing a cellular phone, and I was looking at getting a 200 minutes anytime monthly plan (1000 minutes nights and weekends) from Sprint PCS for a $25 dollar startup fee (instead of $125 for this month only...or so the sales pitch goes) and I believe it is $34.99 a month, plus 4 dollars a month for phone insurance, and 4 dollars monthly for roadside assistance (I'm not that good at changing tires or car stuff, and I'm going to be travelling alone, so I thought I'd get this...you get free towing as well, and 3 free gallons of gas if you run out) + tax. The phone I opted for is the el cheapo free one, but it can handle digital or analog signals, so there wouldn't be lost calls (and it does come in a great shade of my fave color blue as a no charge option...this is important!). I was thinking of getting this. I worked for Sprint PCS in Charlotte, NC a couple of years back, (but have never had a cell phone before, lol) and I feel sort of loyal to them, since they were good to me, but if this isn't a good deal, then I can get over my loyalties and be a bargain whore. Anyone in the know think this is an okay deal? Thanks in advance. Sell me something I haven't already got, - -Mark From a recent Boy George interview, on the subject of Eminem: "...Eminem's thoughts are those of a brattish, streetwise, emotionally insecure, sexually paranoid child pretending to be a grown-up. Any man or woman who craves fame is often slightly in love with themselves. Emimem is just another homoerotic icon in denial. Someone introduce him to the male G-spot, please. As for Elton, a case of the victim identifying with the persecutor." ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 06:57:28 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: RE: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) Is what Kenny G does music? Is RAV4 a car? Is Cate Blanchett an actor or an actress? Daddy, what's Vietnam? Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:22:26 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] cell phone advice, please I am going to be needing a cellular phone, and I was looking at getting a 200 minutes anytime monthly plan (1000 minutes nights and weekends) from Sprint PCS for a $25 dollar startup fee (instead of $125 for this month only...or so the sales pitch goes) and I believe it is $34.99 a month, plus 4 dollars a month for phone insurance, and 4 dollars monthly for roadside assistance (I'm not that good at changing tires or car stuff, and I'm going to be travelling alone, so I thought I'd get this...you get free towing as well, and 3 free gallons of gas if you run out) + tax. >>>>>>>> This is a trick question. The answer is actually 33, because the speed limit is 15 miles per hour. Most people get confused because there's only one person riding in the car, but you have to keep in mind the fact that the plan starts in a month with one "l" in it. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:51:06 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) Rog asks: Is what Kenny G does music? Is RAV4 a car? Is Cate Blanchett an actor or an actress? Daddy, what's Vietnam? <><><><><><><><><><> 1. No. 2. No, it's a phonetic abbreviation for Raiford's, which is a semi-legendary after hours club south of Beale Street in Memphis, owned by limo-cruisin' former pimp Hollywood Raiford. 3. No, she's a "movie star". 4. It was a historical event a lot like one of today's video games, only, since they didn't have the technology we have today, they actually went into the jungle with weapons and blew each other apart. - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:25:14 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rico Aube At 12:55 AM 6/7/2001 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >np: _Metal Machine Music Unplugged_: that jokester Lou set up a whole mess >of microphones then set fire to an acoustic guitar factory... Hey, this is getting too close to my idea (funnier in 1991, when MTV actually aired music, and industrial was enjoying its era of semi-popularity) of "Ministry Unplugged" -- I think it would be just Al Jourgensen screaming. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:07:56 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: RE: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) At 06:57 AM 6/7/2001 -0600, Roger Winston wrote: >Is what Kenny G does music? I Agree With Pat Metheny I agree with Pat Metheny Kenny's talents are too teeny He deserves the crap he's going to get He overdubbed himself on Louis What a musical chop suey Raised his head above the parapet Well Louis Armstrong was the king He practically invented swing Hero of the twentieth century He did duets with many a fella "Fatha" Hines, Bing, Hoagy, Ella Strange he never thought of Kenny G A meeting of great minds, how nice Like Einstein and Sporty Spice Digitally fused in an abortion Kenny fans will doubtless rave While Satchmo turns inside his grave Soprano man's bit off more than his portion Oh brainless pentatonic riffs Display our Kenny's arcane gifts But we don't care, his charms are so beguiling He does play sharp, but let's be fair He has such lovely crinkly hair We hardly notice, we're too busy smiling How does he hold those notes so long? He must be a genius. Wrong! He just has the mindlessness to do it He makes Britney sound like scat If this is jazz I'll eat my hat An idle threat, I'll never have to chew it So next time you're in a rendezvous And Kenny's sound comes wafting through Don't just wince, eliminate the cause Rip the tape right off the muzak Pull the plug, or steal a fuse, Jack The whole room will drown you in applause Yes, Kenny G has gone too far The gloves are off, it's time to spar Grab your hunting rifle, strap your colt on It's open season on our Ken But I await the moment when We lay off him and start on Michael Bolton I agree with Pat Metheny Kenny's talents are too teeny - - Richard Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Matthew Weber wrote: > >i don't think that aube (or sensorband) are "music;" they have none of the > >attributes i think of as defining "music" other than that they're > >delivered through the medium of vibrations in air. i prefer to think of > >aube as "sonic sculpture," which is pretentious, but i think more > > Now whoa there, pardner. I submit to you the following: music is that > which is created or interpreted as music. In other words, if someone has > decided to make a piece of music, no matter what the materials, it's music; > likewise, if someone is interpreting occurrences not intended as music in a > musical way, it's music. John Cage has something to say about this, but I > forget what. This allows for quite a bit of leeway (note that the question > of whether the music is good or bad is open, intentionally so), but I think > it's the best, nay, the only, workable definition. hmmm. first off, by sggesting that something is not "music," i'm making no attempt to make any kind of value judgment. cage is very interesting example to bring up, of course, because i have a nasty feeling he'd have a lot of things falling on either side of my 'music' fence. i actually looked up "music" in the, (uh, random house college? i think) dictionary before writing that, and of course there were a bunch of definitions, but the primary one used the words 'rhythm' 'melody' 'harmony' 'tone' and 'color.' Now you could argue (and perhaps will) that Aube's compositions DO use 'rhythm' 'harmony' and 'melody' and in a strict technical sense, you could argue that any set of sound waves intrinsically has those elements (or can if it's inteneded and/or perceived as such). i would argue that to use the word 'melody' in a way that encompasses aube is so different from the common use of the word 'melody' that it renders the word virtually meaningless. and that's basically the problem i have with your suggested definition of music -- since it excludes nothing, to apply the term 'music' to a series of sounds now conveys no information other than that the term has been applied. in my case, i tend to think of 'music' as stuff that plays, however loosely, within the realms of what i understand to be the popular understanding of 'music' and sound sculpture to be the rest. i have a metric of the conceptual person-in-the-street -- if the person-in-the-street, without the benefit of a background in so-called 'outside music' musique concrete, avant composition etc. can tell, intrinsically that it *is* "music," vs. "noise," then it is. i guess i place the burden of the distinction on the listener vs. the creator, and i assume the application of some (admittedly arbitrary and inconsistent) cultural "norm" but, and this is important too, i wasnt' suggesting that my arbitration of music vs. other sound should be anyone else's. there are people who have artibrations that exclue the ramones from the realm of 'music,' and i'm sad for them, and will never agree, but i think music is such an intrinsically subjective critter that i need to accept the validity, for those ramones=noise folks, of their position. and again, i think it's tremendously useful and, uh, ear-opening, to hear things that really challenge one's placement of those boundaries (or whether one chooses to acknowledge/accept them at all). (what was that paula carino quote again? 'any noise that is sufficiently unrelenting eventually becomes music?' i think it's a fascinating propostiion, and i've thought about it a lot, but ultimately, i disagree) > >(whoops, was that an oxymoron?) > > Absolutely not. that's the theory/goal in my case, anyway. - -- d. np unwound _challenge for a civilized society_ = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:53:53 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two As someone who hangs out at both ends of the noise-melody spectrum, I don't find them different enough to warrant separate terminology. Although when creating my latest abstract electronic opus I don't have to worry about pitch or rhythm in the usual sense, the decisions I make about timbre and timing are musical in nature. Music is, for me, a way of paying attention to sound. I take this to be the lesson of Cage's 4'33". Merely reading about 4'33" will not do the trick, but rather than wait for the next Cage extravaganza to reach your home town, you can try the following experiment: anywhere you are (as long as it's not too quiet), take five minutes, close your eyes, pretend you're at an experimental concert, and listen to your sound of your surroundings as if it were music. I think you'll be surprised at the results. Or maybe you'll think it's bullshit, I dunno. It works for me, though. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:15:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two Tim sez: > try the following experiment: anywhere you are (as long as it's not too quiet), > take five minutes, close your eyes, pretend you're at an experimental concert, > and listen to your sound of your surroundings as if it were music. I think > you'll be surprised at the results. Or maybe you'll think it's bullshit, I > dunno. It works for me, though. On a similar note, in "32 Short Films About Glenn Gould" there's an excellent scene where Gould sits in a coffee shop and eavesdrops on the various conversations around him. Different conversations come in and out of "focus" and at least I got the impression that something musical was happening. I started doing this for a while when I was in busy areas like restaurants and after a fair amount practice I could, to my satisfaction, sort of orchestrate between conversations by moving back and forth between differently pitched speakers or tempos or intensities. I don't do that anymore, and now just work on orchestrating the voices in my head. - --Michael np: Radiohead "Amnesiac" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:31:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, dmw wrote: > and that's basically the problem i have with your suggested definition > of music -- since it excludes nothing, to apply the term 'music' to a > series of sounds now conveys no information other than that the term > has been applied. it excludes tons of things: me, for example. Boston. horseback riding. the Renaissance. /etc/resolv.conf. life insurance. one wouldn't seriously say "that's not a book" or "that's not a car" or "that's not a monologue" to express their displeasure with a work created in one of those media. i guess you could argue that "that's not music" is more like holding up a blank book and saying "this isn't a novel", but that leaves us without a word for the non-musical recordings of compositions comprised of sounds, which many people listen to in the same way as they listen to music. what's the downside of letting Aube be music? a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:42:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rico Aube On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > Hey, this is getting too close to my idea (funnier in 1991, when MTV > actually aired music, and industrial was enjoying its era of > semi-popularity) of "Ministry Unplugged" -- I think it would be just Al > Jourgensen screaming. I saw Ministry unplugged at the Bridge Concert in 1994, where they did a song from MIDNIGHT COWBOY and "Friend Of The Devil". I went to see Ozzy Osbourne, for whom Ministry was a last-minute replacement. Hey, hey, my, my, J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:53:25 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ministry Unplugged Miles Goosens wrote: > Hey, this is getting too close to my idea (funnier in 1991, when MTV > actually aired music, and industrial was enjoying its era of > semi-popularity) of "Ministry Unplugged" -- I think it would be just Al > Jourgensen screaming. Ministry actually played "unplugged" at Neil Young's Bridge School Benefit in 1994 or 1995. Their (Al's) version of "Friend of the Devil" is even on the BRIDGE SCHOOL CONCERTS compilation album! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:01:57 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] Replacements Twin/Tone remasters On Restless. See http://www.spin.com/new/daily/news/20010606-7.html. But I have to ask this -- remastered from what? I remember around the time of one of the latter Mats albums (DON'T TELL A SOUL or ALL SHOOK DOWN), MUSICIAN ran one of their typical overblown "Last Great Rock and Roll Band" pieces on them, and it began (and, I think, ended) with following Westerberg around as he stole the master tapes from Twin/Tone and threw them in the Mississippi in an act of pointless self-destruction worthy of Mats hero Alex Chilton. The band was supposedly mad about their royalties with Twin/Tone, so they destroyed the tapes -- which, if true, destroyed an irreplaceable part of the band's genuine legacy while not harming the label's profits in any way, shape, or form. Well, maybe there was more than one set of tapes, or the writer made this up, or the band staged it since MUSICIAN ate up the whole "self-destruction = great rock band" angle. Anyone know the skinny here? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:16:51 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, dmw wrote: > > > and that's basically the problem i have with your suggested definition > > of music -- since it excludes nothing, to apply the term 'music' to a > > series of sounds now conveys no information other than that the term > > has been applied. > > it excludes tons of things: me, for example. Boston. horseback riding. the > Renaissance. /etc/resolv.conf. life insurance. re: /etc/resolv.conf - the first time i worked on a unix machine that had a soundcard, this guy i used to work with would regularly play binary files through the soundcard. there was one we particularly liked, in fact. > one wouldn't seriously say "that's not a book" or "that's not a car" or > "that's not a monologue" to express their displeasure with a work created > in one of those media. i guess you could argue that "that's not music" is > more like holding up a blank book and saying "this isn't a novel", but but i can hold up a photograph and say "this isn't a painting." or an oil painting and say "this isn't a water color." i see what i call "sound sculpture" and what i call "music" as different but related forms (and, as in a tinted photograph or multimedia paitning, not mutually exclusive). > that leaves us without a word for the non-musical recordings of > compositions comprised of sounds, which many people listen to in the same > way as they listen to music. i'm proposing "sound sculpture" > what's the downside of letting Aube be music? what's the downside of my considering it something other than music? = i do what i am told. i am not opinionated. i accept without | dmw@ = questioning. i do not make a fuss. i am a good consumer. |radix.net = pathetic-caverns.com * fecklessbeast.com * shoddyworkmanship.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:31:01 -0700 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: RE: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round one (take one) At 12:07 PM -0400 6/7/01, Michael Bowen wrote: >At 06:57 AM 6/7/2001 -0600, Roger Winston wrote: >>Is what Kenny G does music? > > >I Agree With Pat Metheny > > >I agree with Pat Metheny >Kenny's talents are too teeny >He deserves the crap he's going to get >He overdubbed himself on Louis >What a musical chop suey >Raised his head above the parapet [snip] >- Richard Thompson I've got an MP3 of this, if anyone would like to hear it. It's from an audience recording, so it isn't the most pristine quality, but you can get the general impression. - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:38:12 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two At 12:43 PM 6/7/01 -0400, dmw wrote: >i actually looked up "music" in the, (uh, random house college? i think) >dictionary before writing that, and of course there were a bunch of >definitions, but the primary one used the words 'rhythm' 'melody' >'harmony' 'tone' and 'color.' Now you could argue (and perhaps will) that >Aube's compositions DO use 'rhythm' 'harmony' and 'melody' and in a strict >technical sense, you could argue that any set of sound waves intrinsically >has those elements (or can if it's inteneded and/or perceived as such). i >would argue that to use the word 'melody' in a way that encompasses aube >is so different from the common use of the word 'melody' that it renders >the word virtually meaningless. I wouldn't say so--I think a distinction needs to be made between the musical definition of "melody" (i.e. a succession of tones) and the popular definition of "melody" (i.e. a tune). Your definition uses some terms that seem to me to overlap (tone/color, melody/tone--if a melody is a succession of tones, then how is tone a separate category from melody, and likewise if tone = timbre, then how is that different from color?). I'd say Aube's work is as much a combination of rhythm, harmony, melody and timbre as any other artist's music. >and that's basically the problem i have >with your suggested definition of music -- since it excludes nothing, to >apply the term 'music' to a series of sounds now conveys no information >other than that the term has been applied. The term "music" does exclude any succession of sounds which are not intended to be music, and any succession of sounds which are not interpreted as music. It also excludes work in media which do not use sound. >in my case, i tend to think of 'music' as stuff that plays, however >loosely, within the realms of what i understand to be the popular >understanding of 'music' and sound sculpture to be the rest. i have a >metric of the conceptual person-in-the-street -- if the >person-in-the-street, without the benefit of a background in so-called >'outside music' musique concrete, avant composition etc. can tell, >intrinsically that it *is* "music," vs. "noise," then it is. Well, "noise" is any sound you don't want to hear. :) When I use the term "noise" in reference to musical work, I'm usually referring to pitch clusters which are so dense that they're interpreted as blocks of frequencies rather than chords. > i guess i >place the burden of the distinction on the listener vs. the creator, and i >assume the application of some (admittedly arbitrary and inconsistent) >cultural "norm" > >but, and this is important too, i wasnt' suggesting that my arbitration of >music vs. other sound should be anyone else's. there are people who have >artibrations that exclue the ramones from the realm of 'music,' and i'm >sad for them, and will never agree, but i think music is such an >intrinsically subjective critter that i need to accept the validity, for >those ramones=noise folks, of their position. No, of course, and I don't mean to be jumping on you--I hope it didn't seem that way. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Nothing *really* matters. Stefan Kageman, journal entry, 13 May 1993, a college student ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:32:17 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Replacements Twin/Tone remasters In a message dated 6/7/01 12:09:05 PM, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes, re: the destroyed master tapes for the now remastered Replacement albums: << Well, maybe there was more than one set of tapes, or the writer made this up, or the band staged it since MUSICIAN ate up the whole "self-destruction = great rock band" angle. Anyone know the skinny here? >> The Twin/Tone folks were at some NYC music conference shortly after that piece ran, and had a sign posted in their booth that said something like, "What Tapes?" They said that was their way of avoiding questions about an incident that they claimed never happened. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:52:42 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two > one wouldn't seriously say "that's not a book" or "that's not a car" or > "that's not a monologue" to express their displeasure with a work created > in one of those media. Right, I think we're conflating "music" as the generic for the form (like "painting", "film", "writing", "dance") with "music" implying "song", like we might say "book" but mean "novel". It's not metonymy, exactly, but it's something like that, substituting the generic for the specific, like saying "nice space" when we only really mean "nice kitchen" but that sounds so mundane. I expect that Aube records lack what many listeners *want* from what they think of as "music", but that's not Akifumi's fault. His pieces have pace, shape, dynamics, tension, recurrence, timbre, scale and personality, and it seems to me there are more interesting insights to be gained from treating them as music than there are from building a wall and tossing "sound sculptures" over it. Like: how different are Aube's manipulations from a DJ's?; how much of the difficulty people have with Aube's pieces is, as with some Low songs, solely a function of tempo, and what does that say about the limits of our time perception? how much of the difference between reactions to _Metal Machine Music_ and Aube's _Metal de Metal_ are products of external information about the authors? how different is the use of liner notes to impose a context onto Aube's _Pages From the Book_ from the use of a written frame story to situate the songs on Savatage's _Poets and Madmen_? how does the use of ambient noise in electronica change the possibilities for non-dance experimental music? how different are the overall effects of Aube albums from _Kid A_ or _Amnesiac_? would it have been more honest of Microsoft to have commissioned the Windows start-up noise from Aube instead of Brian Eno? Etc. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:59:14 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two >what's the downside of my considering it something other than music? Constructing a definition that successfully differentiates between "sound sculpture" and "music" will be difficult, if not impossible. If achieved, the separation is likely to marginalize "non-music", whether that's intended or not. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:06:14 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rico Aube >> You should check out George Harrison's ELECTRONIC SOUNDS if you haven't. >> Sounds like the 4-track home demos for METAL MACHINE MUSIC. Cool artwork... >Any musical trend can be antipicated or exemplified in the recordings of >the Beatles, jointly and severally. So sayeth John Sharples...I bet. I can't find my source for this, but my recollection is that ELECTRONIC SOUNDS is actually a recording of Bernie Krause's Moog synthesizer demonstration/sales pitch. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:41:34 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rico Aube >I can't find my source for this, but my recollection is that ELECTRONIC SOUNDS >is actually a recording of Bernie Krause's Moog synthesizer demonstration/sales >pitch. Nicholas Shaffner's BEATLES FOREVER (no relation to John Delavan's THE BEATLES FOREVER), relates Krause's allegation that Harrison coaxed a Moog demonstration from the Moog doyen, taped that performance, and used it for one whole side of ELECTRONIC SOUNDS. Sadly, ELECTRONIC SOUNDS seems to be out of print all over the world, though if anyone finds out different, please let everyone know. And to think I could 'ad it for $3.29, Andy "Dear SPEAKEASY.net Members, If you were to walk through the hallowed halls of SPEAKEASY.net HQ, you would no doubt notice our customer support reps whispering covertly, the sales department giggling avariciously, and our network operations team eyeing eachother suspiciously. What's the motive for such nervousness? Well, June marks our 6th birthday and around here we like to celebrate such events with an unapologetic spanking. Feel free to drop by the offices any time and give us what-for!" - --from the speakeasy.net newsletter for June 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:22:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, dmw wrote: > but i can hold up a photograph and say "this isn't a painting." I can put on a CD that says "This Is Not a Photograph"... inevitably, - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Any noise that is unrelenting eventually becomes music:: __Paula Carino__ np: Neu! - hey Stewart or someone else who knows: about a minute into the second track (whose title is a German scrawl I can't read), the sound cuts away to brief silence for an instant: is that in all version of that track, or is my newly acquired CD defective? I suspect the first...but ya never know. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:35:34 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two One of the oldest vectors in modernism, dating back to Rimbaud's "systematic derangement of the senses" (or however one translates that) and perhaps before, has been the flight headlong into incoherence. In music as well as other art forms, many of those pursuing this course have been notable for the evident humor of their pursuit. Essentially, the subtext I read into much of this activity is one of playfully challenging audiences to accept willful destruction of the accepted parameters of beauty, and to invent a worldview whose notions of such encompass the formerly ugly or incoherent in the wake of this play. With the most fun of such works, the question "Can we possibly get away with this?" always looms significant. In music, Cage seems to have burst both ends of the bubble, prompting some to refuse to accept his work as music, and others to examine, and even accept, the notion that music might be any set of sounds to which an audience directs a specifying attention. It could have all fallen apart at that point, but contemporaneous to Cage's heroic period of boundary bopping, rock & roll was born, with a built in sense of generational identity inventing conflict. The response, "That's nothing but a bunch of noise," would soon motivate rock musicians to show the man what noise really sounded like, while rock's ascendancy as popular music accelerated the rate at which such "experiments" were accepted as aesthetically pleasing. Paul Burlison deliberately loosened his amplifier tubes. Link Wray slashed his speakers. Hendrix and the Velvet Underground played live with their equipment pushed to its theoretical limits and past, deliberately incorporating sounds that engineers previously struggled to eliminate. Half Japanese and Teenage Jesus & the Jerks frequently threw out the temporal groove that often was the only coherent thread (by the standards being violated) in the music of the VU, or reduced it to its barest someone-hitting-something-again-and-again essence. But a song like "Orphans" sounds almost like pop when compared to the later work of The Happy Flowers. I'd call it a matter of historical parallax. If you've never heard the antecedents the Jesus and Mary Chain, and you drop the needle randomly on any of their pre Psychocandy singles, it will sound like a jet taking off. But if you've already listened to the side two of White Light / White Heat enough to understand that "I Heard Her Call My Name" has the same three or four chords as any other song written after 1955, then it won't take long to spot surf music under the Reid brothers' shitloads o' gain, compression and reverb. A few years back I had the opportunity to sell rare gases of various densities to a (research) group at the University of Missippi who, if I remember correctly were called The Center for Physical Accoustics. I corresponded with one of their members for some time after this about their research, which (in addition to military projects about which he could tell me nothing) included using sound to induce refrigeration, to cause crystals to glow, and to suspend large bubbles in fishtanks without floating to the surface, essentially overcoming gravity. None of these activities were *intended* as music. But from where I sit, it's hard not to notice the possibilities. la la la, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:46:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > If achieved, the separation is likely to marginalize "non-music", > whether that's intended or not. The main reason this issue is unavoidable, and interesting (at least to me), is that artists will always tend to resist this kind of marginalization. You say, "X is not art", and somebody will find a way to do X in a way that makes it art, or at least blurs the line to the point where you can't discern it. I still haven't seen anybody even try to argue that it's really important to be able to differentiate between music and sound sculpture, or performed noise, or what have you. Is the distinction merely academic? Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:00:49 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] funny snarling clowns!- a swap review Here is my review of the interesting tape that Brian Block sent me, and my thanks to him for overcoming tremendous technically difficulties to put this together. 1- Lisa Germano- I Love a Snot- one of only two songs on this mix that I already knew. A "truth in labeling" dating song. Cute and honest with strangely murky production. 2- Stratotanker- Armour of Gusto- One of my two favorite tracks on this mix. Decidedly lo-fi and spare Stooges meets Fleshtones style. Made me shimmy. Who are these guys? 3- Poster Children- Junior Citizens- Sounds like a lot of late 80's college radio rock I've heard, with elements of U2 and the Three Johns mixed in. Not bad, but something about it misses the mark. 4- Brian Stevens- The Piper- Beatley 60's stylings. Bright. The Harmonica solo brings to mind the Fleshtones, once again, but the overall sound is "Baby You Can Drive My Car." Perky drumming. So, who is this guy? 5- Viva Satellite- Supreme Courting- I like the early B52's style organ driven music. A humorous, mostly spoken word take on men's seeming inability to listen to what women say. The woman wins this one. 6- Babylon Zoo- Spaceman- Starts out with a twisted, psychedelic beat box intro, then quickly changes to dark-tinged rock. Changeable and interesting. Info about this band, please? 7- Chevy Heston- Baby You're a Rich Freak- I like the way the band sounds, but the song itself promises more than it delivers. It needs a bridge or something. 8- Skyclad- Just What Nobody Wanted- That name sounds familiar. Is this a 70's band, or does it just sound like one? Indie hard rock with a sort of prog overtone. I don't care much for this one. I think it's the vocals that I don't like. That and the 70's retread guitar solo. 9- Chris Knox- Song to Welcome the Onset of Maturity- Confessional hyper-folk that slides into fuzz guitar choruses. A sort of Irish ballad quality to the lyrical delivery. I don't much care for this one. 10- Chevy Heston- Soldier Lover- Short, murky, and hard to get ahold of. 11- Super Junky Monkey- See Me Feel Me- Guitar noise laden pre-techno industrial that becomes like early Soundgarden fast metal. One of the stranger covers I've heard. Tell me about this band. 12- Logan Whitehurst- Paranoid- NOT a Black Sabbath cover. Ska influenced new wave that reminds me of Thompson Twins. 13- Favorite Color- Valis- My other favorite off this tape. Dark indie pop that reminds me of the Loud Family, Game Theory, and For Against. I like this a lot. Tell me about this band. 14- Raincoats- Don't Be Mean- The other song I already knew. Nothing like being blatantly avoided by the object of your affections- or is that obsessions? Is she stalking this person? The excerpt of Psycho shower scene music suggests she might be. 15- Animals That Swim- Madame Yevonde- Reminds me of John Wesley Harding, but just doesn't interest me. 16- Trespassers W- Come Fling Down With Me- Antietam meets the Three Johns with a horn section? A somewhat clumsy song. 17- Uz Jsme Doma- Blind Man's Curve- A strange, Teutonic sounding prog song with piano and horns. Where are these guys from? 18- Thought Industry- Soot on the Radio- Nothing like being lulled and then yelled at! repeatedly. 19- Brenda Kahn- Faith Salons- Kim Gordon-esque quiet, mostly spoken vocals over minimal rhythm guitar, reminiscent of Slint, but softer. 20- People From Earth- Cutting Up a Body?- Scary song! 21- Too Much Joy- You Will- Punk lite. 22- Carter USM- The Only Looney Left in Town- The song from which the mix tape name comes. Almost Magazine in overall feel, but drags on just a little long at the end. I didn't much like this at first, but it's growing on me. So, there you have it! Now I can throw away two more sheets of paper off the pile on the kitchen table. :) Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 18:02:20 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Aube, a little dab'll do ya (ns) >Nicholas Shaffner's BEATLES FOREVER (no relation to John Delavan's >THE >BEATLES FOREVER), relates Krause's allegation that Harrison coaxed a >Moog >demonstration from the Moog doyen, taped that performance, and used it >for >one whole side of ELECTRONIC SOUNDS. > >Sadly, ELECTRONIC SOUNDS seems to be out of print all over the world, >though >if anyone finds out different, please let everyone know. >>>>>>>>>> It was in all the hip little shops that I go to, just a few months ago. My friend said, "Don't buy that!!" I think that it was reissued recently. But Wonderwall wasn't. Go figure. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:09:08 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] aube vs reed vs ? round two Jon Tveite wrote: > > I still haven't seen anybody even try to argue that it's really important > to be able to differentiate between music and sound sculpture, or > performed noise, or what have you. Is the distinction merely academic? to my mind, the distinction is only important if you have some need to verbally categorize your experiences. the academic world is rife with this, as is the world of the music or art critic, and the parameters are always in question. on an internal personal level, i think compartmentalization of all sensual material can become silly and obsessive. Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #111 *******************************