From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest)
To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org
Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #91
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loud-fans-digest Thursday, May 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 091
Today's Subjects:
-----------------
[loud-fans] Merger Question/Pearl Harbor (NS) ["\(The Arch-Villain\) West]
[loud-fans] TV rants against God ["Phil Gerrard"
]
Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God [JRT456@aol.com]
Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God ["Phil Gerrard"
Subject: [loud-fans] Merger Question/Pearl Harbor (NS)
I heard that Time Warner and EMI were considering a merger some time ago, but
I haven't heard anything about it recently. It there still a chance that this
could happen, or did it just go away? I think I speak for us all when I say
that nothing would bring more joy to the hearts of music lovers everywhere
than another big fat corporate merger.
Also, I'm seeing more and more in the news (TV and print) about fears in the
Asian-American community about some kind of backlash in the wake of the
romance-with-explosions epic "Pearl Harbor". In an article I read in the LA
Times today, it is mentioned that a recent poll showed one-third of Americans
distrusting Chinese-Americans. (I know, the Chinese had zilch to do with the
sinking of the Arizona, but I guess the point is that to some white people,
"they all look alike".) Not people way over in China, mind you -- people of
Chinese descent living in America. One-third of us don't trust them.
I swear that I am not trying to make light of this, but I must ask: is this
for real? Are people this stupid? Have we learned nothing? When I was
growing up in Orange County in the early 80's, I recall Vietnamese people
moving into the area in droves to the intense dislike and resentment of those
around me. The reactions of the "locals" were terribly disturbing; I never
thought I'd hear the term "gook" anywhere outside of a Vietnam war movie.
I thought "Pearl Harbor" was just going to be another bad T-BURG flick (That
Blowed Up Real Good); it never occurred to me that the delicate, subtle
artistry of Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay could be mistaken for
anti-Japanese propaganda. Are similar concerns being expressed in your
hometown? Is this merely a media hype-fest to plug a movie, or is this a
matter of genuine importance? I keep hoping that it's all a load of crap, but
I'm afraid I can't simply dismiss it out of hand.
West
"Herzog is a miserable, hateful, malevolent, avaricious, money-hungry, nasty,
sadistic, treacherous, blackmailing, cowardly, thoroughly dishonest creep....
He should be thrown alive to the crocodiles! An anaconda should strangle him
slowly! A poisonous spider should sting him and paralyze his lungs! The most
venomous serpent should bite him and make his brain explode! No panther claws
should rip open his throat -- that would be much too good for him! No! The
huge red ants should piss into his lying eyes and gobble up his balls and his
guts! He should catch the plague! Syphilis! Malaria! Yellow fever!
Leprosy! It's no use; the more I wish him the most gruesome deaths, the more
he haunts me." -- Klaus Kinski, "Kinski Uncut"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:59:34 +0100
From: "Phil Gerrard"
Subject: [loud-fans] TV rants against God
JRT456 wrote:
> In a message dated 5/22/01 4:58:06 PM, mbowen@frontiernet.net writes
> of the lazy device of TV characters ranting against God:
>
> << Name a few, please - I don't particularly remember seeing any. >>
>
> There was that angry reverend who lost his sight on DR. QUINN,
> MEDICINE WOMEN, and Pembleton on HOMICIDE, and Dennis Franz in several
> episodes of NYPD BLUE. To be fair, I don't think Christine Lahti
> raised her voice while watching her Christian Scientist father die
> during CHICAGO HOPE. Of course, there are many more examples. Start
> with watching MAUDE on TV Land, and don't be surprised when you run
> out of fingers.
Or, for that matter, check out Raskolnikov in 'Crime and
Punishment', Mersault in 'L'Etranger', Angel in 'Tess of the
D'Urbervilles'... I agree that the struggle with issues of faith is not
an uncommon theme: in fact it's been pretty central to the Western
artistic canon for a good century and a half now. However, I think
characterising the use of this theme as 'lazy' - presumably
meaning that it's merely a cheap shot at controversy designed only
to generate ratings or kudos - is a bit sweeping. If it's done well, as
was often the case with Pembleton in 'Homicide' IMO, why
shouldn't it be a perfectly valid area for TV to explore?
(not that I'm sure whether 'Dr Quinn' is the appropriate platform for
such a debate, but never mind)
peace & love
phil
Phil Gerrard
Senior Admissions Officer
The External Programme
University of London
E-mail: p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk
'Phone: 020 7862 8369
Fax: 020 7862 8363
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:27:53 EDT
From: Cardinal007@aol.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] foot in mouth disease and knee-jerk dickheads........ [exaggerated ellipsis]
In a message dated 5/23/01 1:18:20 AM, rwinston@tde.com writes:
>Huh??
>
>I seem to have misplaced my "LoudFans List Posts For Dummies" book, so
>
>could someone please translate this for me? Thanks.
>
>Later. --Rog
>
>At Tuesday 5/22/2001 09:44 PM -0400, Cardinal007@aol.com wrote:
Hey, mister, coherence is *vastly* overrated.
Just because I'm incomprehensible ...... [exaggerated ellipsis], don't think
I'm not unintelligible.
as someone else often departed:
Ye Olde Windbagee,
Cardinal007
{if you people only knew that I'm Jeff Norman writing under another account
......... [exaggerated ellipsis]}
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:02:48 -0600
From: Roger Winston
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Merger Question/Pearl Harbor (NS)
At Wednesday 5/23/2001 01:52 AM -0700, \(The Arch-Villain\) West wrote:
>I heard that Time Warner and EMI were considering a merger some time ago, but
>I haven't heard anything about it recently.
Perhaps because Time Warner no longer exists? My Time Warner stock
suddenly morphed into a little something called "AOL" not too long ago. Gross!
Later. --Rog
- -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:50:52 -0500
From: "Keegstra, Russell"
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] best TV Sponge (ns)
[< much as any other.>>
>
> So that's all self-explanatory.]
>
And did anybody see USA TODAY's review of
tonight's BUFFY, where they actually praise the show for an amazing new
dramatic device where a character has to weigh whether a loved one should
die
to stop a great evil?
USA Today? So that's all self-explanatory.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:45:01 EDT
From: JRT456@aol.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God
In a message dated 5/23/01 4:05:22 AM, p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk writes:
<< I agree that the struggle with issues of faith is not an uncommon theme:
in fact it's been pretty central to the Western artistic canon for a good
century and a half now. However, I think characterising the use of this theme
as 'lazy' - presumably
meaning that it's merely a cheap shot at controversy designed only to
generate ratings or kudos - is a bit sweeping.>>
That's all well put. In the case of THE WEST WING episode, words like "safe"
and "reliable" are more appropriate than "lazy." Don't expect to see THE WEST
WING ever showing an allegedly virtuous character putting out his cigarette
on the Torah .
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:55:50 +0100
From: "Phil Gerrard"
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God
On 23 May 01, at 11:45, JRT456@aol.com wrote:
> That's all well put. In the case of THE WEST WING episode, words like
> "safe" and "reliable" are more appropriate than "lazy." Don't expect
> to see THE WEST WING ever showing an allegedly virtuous character
> putting out his cigarette on the Torah .
Oh, yeah - as Alexei Sayle put it: 'You see a lot of comedians
having great fun at the expense of Christians, but you don't see
very many having a go at Islamic fundamentalists - and I'm not
going to be the one to start.'
In that sense, yes, I can see what you're getting at - ridiculing
Christianity isn't nearly as dangerous or edgy as some people
would like to think it is, but it provides just enough of a frisson to
excite people like the Emmy judges.
peace & love
phil
Phil Gerrard
Senior Admissions Officer
The External Programme
University of London
E-mail: p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk
'Phone: 020 7862 8369
Fax: 020 7862 8363
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:58:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God; God has no reply as yet
On Wed, 23 May 2001 JRT456@aol.com wrote:
> and "reliable" are more appropriate than "lazy." Don't expect to see THE WEST
> WING ever showing an allegedly virtuous character putting out his cigarette
> on the Torah .
I didn't see the show in question...but why, exactly, was Sheen's
character putting out his cigarette on the Bible? I ask because my first
guess, not having seen the show, might be that the Bible has been used, in
this country, in this century, in attempts to justify all manner of
oppression and bigotry. (Please note: I don't say the Bible *does* justify
these things, only that some folks have tried to use it thus.) If the
Torah has been used as widely and as perniciously, then you just might see
such a scene.
But again, I speculate, not having seen the show.
- --Jeff
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::we make everything you need, and you need everything we make::
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:23:50 EDT
From: LeftyZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [loud-fans] best TV Sponge (ns)
At some point, JRT said about me:
Lefty: [<>
JRT: So that's all self-explanatory.]
whew......and here I figured he'd call me fat or something.
Left
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:36:37 -0400
From: Michael Bowen
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God; God has no reply as yet
At 10:58 AM 5/23/2001 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote:
>On Wed, 23 May 2001 JRT456@aol.com wrote:
>
> > and "reliable" are more appropriate than "lazy." Don't expect to see
> THE WEST
> > WING ever showing an allegedly virtuous character putting out his
> cigarette
> > on the Torah .
>
>I didn't see the show in question...but why, exactly, was Sheen's
>character putting out his cigarette on the Bible?
He didn't. President Bartlet (another manifestation of the vast left-wing
media conspiracy) stomped out his ciggie on the floor of the Temple of the
Chief Acolyte of the Blood God of some obscure desert barbarian tribe he
happened to be in. So an accurate analogy would be Bartlet's "defiling" the
floor of a Temple of the Blood God of some obscure desert barbarian tribe,
not their "holy scrolls".
MB
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:46:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Mandel
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God; God has no reply as yet
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote:
> I didn't see the show in question...but why, exactly, was Sheen's
> character putting out his cigarette on the Bible?
he didn't. he put his cigarette out on the floor of the church after
cursing God. the only reason the same scene wouldn't have worked with a
Jewish main character is that synagogues tend to have carpets rather than
stone floors.
come to think of it, i'd rather have seen Toby doing that scene. he's got
a lot more anger than Bartlet anyway.
a
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:59:10 -0400
From: Michael Bowen
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] best TV Sponge (ns)
At 11:24 PM 5/22/2001 -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/22/01 4:58:06 PM, mbowen@frontiernet.net writes
>of the lazy device of TV characters ranting against God:
>
><< Name a few, please - I don't particularly remember seeing any. >>
>
>There was that angry reverend who lost his sight on DR. QUINN, MEDICINE
>WOMEN, and Pembleton on HOMICIDE, and Dennis Franz in several episodes of
>NYPD BLUE. To be fair, I don't think Christine Lahti raised her voice while
>watching her Christian Scientist father die during CHICAGO HOPE. Of course,
>there are many more examples. Start with watching MAUDE on TV Land, and don't
>be surprised when you run out of fingers.
Color me impressed. Did you actually watch DR QUINN back then, or is there
a list that you pulled these from somewhere?
MB
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:41:19 -0400
From: popanda@juno.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] foot in mouth disease
On Tue, 22 May 2001 14:12:53 -0400 Dana L Paoli
writes:
> On Tue, 22 May 2001 13:50:50 -0400 popanda@juno.com writes:
> ps Due to a need to separate posts from lists from regular e-mails,
> explains the name change
> >>>>>>>>
>
> So is that "popanda" as in "panda, panda, popanda, banana, fana,
> fofanda..."?
>
> --dana
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
When I read this, I didn't think of that sixties song, but that Gap ad,
where pandas can't shop at because their clothes are too small. That
would be pop, (as in art or music or soda) then panda, as in well, panda,
like the bear or European car.
M
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:21:07 -0400
From: popanda@juno.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] best TV Sponge (ns)
On Wed, 23 May 2001 00:15:51 EDT JRT456@aol.com writes:
> In a message dated 5/22/01 10:45:26 AM, Lefty Z writes:
>
> << (wow, it's fun to annoy a Christian without even really tryin')
> >>
>
> He also once wrote, of lists of favorite TV shows:
>
> < that show as
> much as any other.>>
>
> So that's all self-explanatory.
>
I don't watch much television as my reception is pretty bad, but for what
it's worth I do know that on the first Dawson's Creek soundtrack
"Christian" band Sixpence None the Richer have their song "Kiss Me."
Btw, they are an excellent group, and they make beautiful pop, and if you
cringe at the phrase "Christian pop," I don't think their music would be
bothersome. It's not preachy. I've got their debut album "The
Fatherless and the Widow" from 1994, (actually I have all their
albums...they are terriffic) and when I heard this album in a Christian
bookstore back then I knew that FINALLY there was a breath of fresh air
in Christian music. Starflyer 59 appeared at about this same time, and
my jaw dropped. Now the two are probably the biggest crossover
"Christian alternative" acts in Christian music history. The Orange
Peels were once labeled a Christian band due to some lyrical references
on their first record, particualarly a song called "Love Coming Down,"
but I haven't heard that about them since. I wonder if Minty Fresh
buried the album, as it started out well upon its release, then suddenly
floundered. Perhaps the label didn't want to be affiliated with a
Christian act?
M
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:56:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TV rants against God
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Phil Gerrard wrote:
> Oh, yeah - as Alexei Sayle put it: 'You see a lot of comedians
> having great fun at the expense of Christians, but you don't see
> very many having a go at Islamic fundamentalists - and I'm not
> going to be the one to start.'
>
> In that sense, yes, I can see what you're getting at - ridiculing
> Christianity isn't nearly as dangerous or edgy as some people
> would like to think it is, but it provides just enough of a frisson to
> excite people like the Emmy judges.
I would say it has far more to do with the power and prevalence of
Christianity: railing against people in the minority (both power &
prevalence -wise) sounds more like bigotry plain and simple, whereas
having a go at those in power has a political component to it. Note, too,
that most overt anti-Christians are former Christians themselves.
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::Californians invented the concept of the life-style.
::This alone warrants their doom.
__Don DeLillo, WHITE NOISE__
------------------------------
End of loud-fans-digest V1 #91
******************************