From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #87 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, May 22 2001 Volume 01 : Number 087 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Pop Rocks-Jeff Brenneman's Mix CD ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Pop Rocks-Jeff Brenneman's Mix CD ["Jeff Brenneman" ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... [Chris Prew ] Re: [loud-fans] best TV shows (ns) [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... [steve ] Re: [loud-fans] foot in mouth disease [steve ] Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... [Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pop Rocks-Jeff Brenneman's Mix CD > pleasant, likeable pop that after several listenings I can't remember one > thing about. ... Roomates-Pop Art I'd just like to reassert that "Roommates" is one of my favorite songs in the entire world, and brag that it was my complaining about its omission from the preliminary track list that prompted David Steinhart to add it to the recent Pop Art retrospective _Really Blind Faith_ . Years from now, when Steinhart has garnered the respect he deserves, I plan to make a lot of money by auctioning off the first draft of my liner notes that bemoans the song's absence... glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:12:42 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] long live GbV...BOXCARS! The GbV show at the Cradle last Friday night was another incredible performance. Not as wild as the New Years show earlier this year but a better show I thought. I have yet to see Pollard and Co. Put on anything less than a stellar show. This night it was 45 songs in just under 3 hours. A full guitar assault which concentrated on songs from ISOLATION DRILLS and a couple of songs Bob said was from an upcoming summer release with Tobin Sprout. Through Ana's friendship with Doug Gillard she said I wouldn't have any problem with the band recording at the soundboard. I still used mics, just because I prefer that "live" sound. My only screw up was that my mic got unplugged slightly somehow just prior to the final 2 encore songs so I missed "Motor Away" followed by "Baba O'Reilly"...*%#@!!! For anyone listening in on the dcn.com webcast I got drafted into monitoring the out-going sound because it was in a weird spot for the sound guy/tour manager, Andy Harrison, to check on. I also ended up cutting the stage mics back on when GbV took to the stage for the encores before Andy could get back from the restroom. Sound assistant for a night :) I spoke with Frank Heath afterwards and he is in fact putting on an REM tribute show July 7th at the Cat's Cradle to celebrate the 20th anniversary of CHRONIC TOWN. A bunch of local bands will be playing a bunch of their favorite REM songs. I think REM's first show out of the Athens area was just across the street at the now defunct Station in Carrboro. This should be a lot of fun. So far scheduled to appear are Shalini, the Connells, The Mayflies USA and Ashley Stove, maybe more. It's a Saturday night so NC area loudfans should try to make the drive. Here's the link to the Cradle's new website, though this show hasn't posted yet. http://catscradle.arcticon.com/ - --Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:19:34 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] GbV addendum Forgot to add that San Fran opening band Creeper Lagoon were very impressive. This is the first time I've heard them and I promptly snatched up their last 2 albums. A great high charged opener for GbV. I'll definitely keep an eye on them from now on. What's the story on this band? - --Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:48:23 -0700 From: "Jeff Brenneman" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pop Rocks-Jeff Brenneman's Mix CD >1 Wynn & Linus Go Fishing/Get the Net, Bandwagon Soundtrack-A film I never > >got to see, but I've heard good things about it. This is very cool, these >two > >short instrumentals and dialog from the film, nice pop. 5 > >2. Ann It Goes Circus Monkey- Cool pop, with a great title.5 I thought this was a great movie and a great soundtrack! The movie is especially hilarious if you've been in a touring garage band. The guys from Tackle Box did a great deal of the music for the movie under the psuedonym CIRCUS MONKEY. >3 Milkbomb-Spot 1019, It's not an insult to say this is a great parody of >all > >the jam bands and their Greatful Dead fixation. I love it. 10 I loved this CD and their 2nd release as well. I believe they are both still available from Frontier Records. >5 Sparky's Dream (live) Teenage Fanclub-I have Grand Prix and this is one >of > >the best songs off of it. Acoustic too, this live version, very cool-10. GREAT SONG! And the acoustic version is very cool also. I think this was a "bonus" on one of the singles. >8Please, Please Please, Let Me Get What I Want-Dream Academy-I've only >heard > >their hit, and liked it well enough, but not enough to take a chance on the > >album it came from. I don't know where this Smiths cover is from, but this >is > >gorgeous. I especially like the intro. Wonderful chamber pop. 10 I've always liked these guys. It took me a while to get into their cd's but i love 'em all now. This was from a hard to find 12". >9 In Another Life-Semisonic-I like thse guys a lot, even if their new album > >is just an mearly good follow-up to feeling Strangly Fine, a great album. > >This is from their first, and I've always meant to buy it, now that I know >at > >least one great song is on it.5 Their first CD gets beaucoup play in my CD player. Haven't heard the newest yet. >10 I wanna Destroy You-Soft Boys-The one and only. I feel like such a nerd > >saying this, but this is the first time I've ever heard them. I know >Kimberly > >Rew's guitar playing more from Katrina And The Waves then from his first > >band. And now I'm about to commit hearsay, but I've never been the biggest > >Robyn Hitchcock fan. I like him, but I don't love him. Maybe he will click > >for me when i buy this album. 10 The only thing I own own is the mini box set (?) with assorted tracks from their earlier releases with b-sides live etc. GREAT STUFF! >All in all a great mix. Thanks again for making it for me. I'm glad you found something you liked! Regarding Glenn's comment on Pop Art/Roommates: I have to agree that Roommmates is one of THE most catchy Pop Songs of all time! I loved their retro release, but as you mentioned in the liner notes Glenn, this definitely SHOULD have been an all inclusive box set!! Take care! Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:56:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] GbV addendum On Mon, 21 May 2001, Larry Tucker wrote: > Forgot to add that San Fran opening band Creeper Lagoon were very > impressive. This is the first time I've heard them and I promptly > snatched up their last 2 albums. A great high charged opener for GbV. > I'll definitely keep an eye on them from now on. What's the story on > this band? Only that if they had the first full-length, _I Become Small and Go_, and you didn't pick it up, you should have: the label's out of business. I like that CD a lot (review in the usual place), the EP _Watering Ghost Garden_ isn't quite as impressive although that may be because I haven't listened that much to it yet, and the new CD has clocked only one listen since it showed up in another massive pile of CDs to be reviewed. That's not the CD's fault - I liked it on first listen, esp. the one song the "other" vocalist sings (I think Ian Sefchick sings most, so that'd be Sharky Laguana - reverse if I've misremembered) in a sort of stoned Righteous Brother style with loads of mellotron. If I recall, it's calle "Lover's Leap" (the song, not the album - which has a really long title with the word "universe" in it). - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::To be the center of the universe, don't orbit things:: __Scott Miller__ np: Bruford _Age of Information_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:56:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jer Fairall Subject: [loud-fans] Cd liner Can anyone recommend a good program/template for making CD liners and tray cards? Thanks in advance, Jer ===== Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:17:11 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... At 10:24 PM 5/18/2001 -0600, Stewart Mason wrote: >At 11:05 PM 5/18/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >>The average American watches...I dunno, more hours of TV per week than GW >>Bush has IQ points. Me, I watch only 6 - 7 regularly...so why, pray tell, >>have TV executives conspired to logjam 2.5 hours of them in the same >>one-hour time slot? That's right: _Buffy_, _Gilmore Girls_, and _That '70s >>Show_ are all scheduled to run Tuesdays at 7pm Central next fall. > >And after That 70s Show, there's the new sitcom from Judd Apatow, co-exec >producer of Freaks and Geeks, which at least merits a couple of viewings to >see if that show was a fluke. > >However, if you must watch Buffy (and I have never figured out the appeal >of that show).... I've become a total BUFFY convert. I wasn't really opposed to it in the first place, it was more like I was skeptical of the premise (SF/fantasy series are such a crapshoot -- sometimes you get BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, sometimes you get MANIMAL). But Melissa and I have watched the last 2 1/2 seasons closely, and have decided that the show is smartly written, strikes an ideal balance between character development/emotional resonance and good ol' Monster Fu fun, and is well-acted on top of all that. I'd put episodes like last year's season finale (where we went inside the dreams of the principal characters) up against anything else I've seen on TV. And in a just world, James Marsters would be walking away with an Emmy for best supporting actor... I wish I could say that I've come to like FREAKS AND GEEKS and GILMORE GIRLS. I've really tried with both, but to no avail. FREAKS AND GEEKS, music aside, still strikes me as very, very wrong, especially on the former side of the titular equation. Even though it was set four years earlier, DAZED AND CONFUSED got a lot more right about high school, pot smoking, and such like, as does THAT '70s SHOW. GILMORE GIRLS has two well-developed characters, Lorelei (the radiant Lori Graham) and Rory (Alexis Bledel); the rest are a parade of personality quirks masquerading as characters in a way that would make even David E. Kelley blush. 2000-2001 best TV shows: 1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2) Everybody Loves Raymond 3) The Sopranos 4) Angel 5) Beggars and Choosers 6) That '70s Show 7) Ed 8) The Drew Carey Show 9) Malcolm in the Middle 10) Will & Grace Biggest dropoffs (tie): ONCE AND AGAIN, which went from believable family drama to ridiculous-plot-twist hell; FRIENDS, which over the last couple of seasons had quietly matured into a show deserving of its early hype, but this year backslid into a steady diet of caricature and plot extenders. Best midseason replacements (tie): THE JOB, an ostensible comedy which has more edge and savage bite than the last five Stephen Bochco series combined; THE LONE GUNMEN, which was more entertaining than the last four seasons of THE X-FILES combined (plus it's got Zuleikha Robinson, grrrrrrowl!). already missing Shannen Doherty on CHARMED (though he's sure Alyssa Milano isn't), Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:34:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... On Mon, 21 May 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > But Melissa and I have watched the last 2 1/2 seasons closely, and > have decided that the show is smartly written, strikes an ideal > balance between character development/emotional resonance and good ol' > Monster Fu fun, and is well-acted on top of all that. I agree, except that I think the last few episodes have been weak, and the threads of storyline connecting them are awful. The woman playing Glory can't act, the scoobies have been acting like idiots and I'm not sure I can take much more of Buffy and Willow having to parent Dawn and Tara, respectively. Just had to get that off my chest. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:39:31 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] best TV shows (ns) 2000-2001 best TV shows: 1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2) Everybody Loves Raymond 3) The Sopranos 4) Angel 5) Beggars and Choosers 6) That '70s Show 7) Ed 8) The Drew Carey Show 9) Malcolm in the Middle 10) Will & Grace >>>>>>>>>>> What about Felicity!! A truly wonderful, highly underrated show. It takes a while to "get" it, as you have to know the characters, but this has been a consistent favorite ever since the writers loosened up back in the 2nd-3rd season. The show probably peaked a season or so ago, but it's still operating on a very high level. And, even though it's not in prime time, I'm so impressed by Sponge Bob, which is IMHO, the best animated show in years and years and years, getting bonus points for having very few pop-culture references and a really sweet sense of humor. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:59:13 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... On Monday, May 21, 2001, at 10:17 AM, Miles Goosens wrote: > I've become a total BUFFY convert. I wasn't really opposed to it in > the first place, it was more like I was skeptical of the premise > (SF/fantasy series are such a crapshoot -- sometimes you get BEAUTY AND > THE BEAST, sometimes you get MANIMAL). But Melissa and I have watched > the last 2 1/2 seasons closely, and have decided that the show is > smartly written, strikes an ideal balance between character > development/emotional resonance and good ol' Monster Fu fun, and is > well-acted on top of all that. I'd put episodes like last year's > season finale (where we went inside the dreams of the principal > characters) up against anything else I've seen on TV. And in a just > world, James Marsters would be walking away with an Emmy for best > supporting actor... What happened to Buffy this season? If I wanted to watch a soap opera, I'd watch....well, some soap opera. They seem to have taken the character development portion way over the top. Too much soul-searching and not enough vampire-wasting. As Homer says...Less Chat, more Splat! That said, I'll still be watching Tuesday to see how the whole Glory/Dawn thing turns out. Hopefully It'll be better than the X-Files ending yesterday ....yeesh. (caveat--couldn't hear all the Mulder/Scully dialog at the end due to crying baby, so I probably missed something important). The only other shows I watch are the Simpsons & Malcolm, South Park occasionally, and bad movies on the Sci-Fi network. And lets not forget the Jeff Corwin Experience on Animal Planet. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:07:56 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] best TV shows (ns) At 11:39 AM 5/21/2001 -0400, Dana L Paoli wrote: >What about Felicity!! A truly wonderful, highly underrated show. It >takes a while to "get" it, as you have to know the characters, but this >has been a consistent favorite ever since the writers loosened up back in >the 2nd-3rd season. The show probably peaked a season or so ago, but >it's still operating on a very high level. I probably didn't stick with it in its first season, when Felicity's near-stalker obsession and (IMO) subpar scripting drove me away after a couple of trials. I'm willing to consider that it might have gotten better, especially with your recommendation. >And, even though it's not in prime time, I'm so impressed by Sponge Bob, >which is IMHO, the best animated show in years and years and years, >getting bonus points for having very few pop-culture references and a >really sweet sense of humor. My off-list friend Holly turned me on to Spongebob several months ago, and I agree with everything Dana says about it. Some episodes are far funnier than others, so you might have to watch four or five of them (they're 15 minutes each) before it clicks. I like the Powerpuff Girls and Dexter's Laboratory too. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:46:51 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... >Best midseason replacements (snip): ...THE LONE GUNMEN, which was more entertaining than the last >four >seasons of THE X-FILES combined (plus it's got Zuleikha Robinson, grrrrrrowl!). Watch while you can, I'm afraid. I haven't been tuning in--or paying much attention to TV--but apparently, "Lone Gunmen" isn't being renewed. Anyone here for "Police Videos" or "The Oblongs," Andy "Got fed a cup of coffee about a month ago and now I think I need to replace it. Very sticky." - --Doug Mayo-Wells on his home computer keyboard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:39:45 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... At 09:46 AM 5/21/2001 -0700, Andrew Hamlin wrote: >Watch while you can, I'm afraid. I haven't been tuning in--or paying much >attention to TV--but apparently, "Lone Gunmen" isn't being renewed. It's true. I love Fox's logic, used with THE LONE GUNMEN, HARSH REALM, MILLENNIUM, and attempted with THE X-FILES (and without that early Golden Globe win, network "logic" probably would have prevailed) -- put a show that's gonna skew young on Fridays at 9 PM Eastern, when your target audience is out of the house and away from a TV set, then say "it didn't get ratings." Next up in the slot: the still-scrumptuous Dana Delaney in PASADENA. Other notable cast members include Hal Hartley regular Martin Donovan, Natasha Wagner (no Gregson these days?), and Balthazar Getty. It ain't science fiction, but if I were the producers, I'd be ready for Fox to use the show as its latest tax write-off flop. Fox moved DARK ANGEL to 8 PM on Fridays, Jim Cameron be damned, so maybe this will expedite getting Jessica Alba to a show more worthy of her. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:02:53 EDT From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] best TV shows (ns) In a message dated 5/21/01 8:52:43 AM, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << 2000-2001 best TV shows: 1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2) Everybody Loves Raymond 3) The Sopranos 4) Angel 5) Beggars and Choosers 6) That '70s Show 7) Ed 8) The Drew Carey Show 9) Malcolm in the Middle 10) Will & Grace >> Not really clear to me whose list this is. But, it's interesting. While it's difficult for me to really respect any list that does not include The Gilmore Girls, I have to admit that I haven't seen all of the shows listed. (Frankly, I'm reluctant to even TRY any new shows, for fear that they might become MUST WATCHES for me -- and I just can't let myself get hooked on anything new.) Gilmore Girls is simply the cutest, cleverest show I've seen.....maybe in forever. While I watched every second of The Sopranos this year, and it was definitely great, I don't think it was as good as the first two years. It's a visceral thing for me. There just weren't near as many jaw-dropping moments per show. I'd put Sex in the City on mine. And, maybe West Wing. While to me, it's kind of "ER in the White House" -- makes me nervous instead of educating or entertaining me, I have to admit, the dialog is damn clever, I kinda like the politics, and Sheen's rant against God in the SEASON FINALE the other night was pretty unprecedented for broadcast TV. I'd put Dawson's Creek on mine too. I'm 46 and look forward to that show as much as any other. While, on a viewing or two, it might come off as "Melrose Place in a High School," and it's as emotionally manipulative as anything, the writing is consistently brilliant. I guess the greatest thing about Gilmore Girls and Dawson is that they both contain many epiphonous moments of great and meaningful communication. They aren't realistic -- no one really communicates like that with their friends or family (no one that I know of anyway -- although I'd like to think I'm close). But.......I fantasize that there are big numbers of kids and parents out there that may actually learn something from the communication portrayed in these shows. Left ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:22:25 -0700 (MST) From: Dennis Subject: [loud-fans] pleasanton anyone? Hi, Can anyone familiar with the Pleasanton area of California please email me offline. I need help finding a decent place to stay. - -- - --- Dennis Sacks dennis@illusions.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:30:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... On Mon, 21 May 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 10:24 PM 5/18/2001 -0600, Stewart Mason wrote: > > > >However, if you must watch Buffy (and I have never figured out the appeal > >of that show).... > > I've become a total BUFFY convert. I wasn't really opposed to it in the > sometimes you get MANIMAL). But Melissa and I have watched the last 2 1/2 > seasons closely, and have decided that the show is smartly written, strikes > an ideal balance between character development/emotional resonance and good > ol' Monster Fu fun, and is well-acted on top of all that. I'd put episodes > like last year's season finale (where we went inside the dreams of the > principal characters) up against anything else I've seen on TV. And in a > just world, James Marsters would be walking away with an Emmy for best > supporting actor... I kind of agree that they've become rather too operatic this season - but still, when they can pull off an episode like the one in which Joyce Summers (Buffy's mother) died, well then it's all worth it. Oh - and the previous season's _Hush_ was just wonderfully creepy as well as formally daring for a sitcom/drama (no, I'm not going to call it a "camel" or "dramadery" or whatever the industry wants me to say). > I wish I could say that I've come to like FREAKS AND GEEKS and GILMORE > GIRLS. I've really tried with both, but to no avail. FREAKS AND GEEKS, > such like, as does THAT '70s SHOW. GILMORE GIRLS has two well-developed > characters, Lorelei (the radiant Lori Graham) and Rory (Alexis Bledel); the > rest are a parade of personality quirks masquerading as characters in a way > that would make even David E. Kelley blush. I think that was an early problem - but they've rounded out a handful of the other characters, notably Lorelai's mother and Luke Danes, the diner guy. For that matter, even some of the characters who initially read like one-quirk jokes (prime example of single-quirk character: Sally Struthers' character - whom I love anyway) have evolved into at least two dimensions: the chef (whose name I'm brain-spasming on), Dean, etc. And the show deserves a round of applause for casting a large actress in that chef's role and *never once making a point of it* positive or negative. I like _That '70s Show_ a lot, but I think it's declined a bit. The humor seems to have become a bit broader as well. Now if only Fox would put that show in place of the ass-dragging _King of the Hill_ on Sunday nights, I'd be happy. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ np: Liz Phair WHITECHOCOLATESPACEEGGBROKENSPACEBAR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:10:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... First Miles, then JeFFrey: > > such like, as does THAT '70s SHOW. GILMORE GIRLS has two well-developed > > characters, Lorelei (the radiant Lori Graham) and Rory (Alexis Bledel); the > > rest are a parade of personality quirks masquerading as characters in a way > > that would make even David E. Kelley blush. > > I think that was an early problem - but they've rounded out a handful of > the other characters, notably Lorelai's mother and Luke Danes, the diner > guy. For that matter, even some of the characters who initially read like > one-quirk jokes (prime example of single-quirk character: Sally Struthers' > character - whom I love anyway) have evolved into at least two dimensions: > the chef (whose name I'm brain-spasming on), Dean, etc. And the show > deserves a round of applause for casting a large actress in that chef's > role and *never once making a point of it* positive or negative. Echo what Jeffrey says, but would add that Dean is a 3D character, and a very interesting one at that. Chef's name is Suki (phonetically, anyway). And the character we've all learned to hate, the Frenchie at the hotel, is not coming back next season. But in the words of Roger Ebert, "It's not what it's about, it's how it's about." On this, GG does something that I've never seen in television before. The plot lines are at heart light soap operas--girl's first kiss, fight with mom, opressive parents, meanies at school--which have been done countless times. But the show is smart about it. There's better dialogue in one episode of GG than in all but five films per year (Five is a Hollywood quota, and I think two of those slots are alotted to Mamet). It doesn't condescend to lowest common denominators, but expects people to use their intelligence in watching the show. (This doesn't mean it's elitist, because Dostoyevsky references sit comfortably beside Hanson references). With very few exceptions, some of which have already been noted, TV shows which go after these types of plot lines go after them in the full banality of an afterschool special. I like West Wing, but I do miss Sports Night. - --Michael M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:25:56 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... > I like West Wing, but I do miss Sports Night. The _Sports Night_ reruns on Comedy Central are my vote for the only really good show on TV this year. _Gilmore Girls_ is a runner-up with potential, but I'm afraid I don't think the actress playing the daughter is good enough to take it anywhere near MSCL levels. Buffy lost me last season; I don't think they ever got over the loss of Cordelia, and the attendant removal of Buffy et al's social-underdog status to go with the monsters. I'll try to give it another chance next year, though, as I'm not yet convinced they can't (and won't) fix it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:38:22 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... At 06:25 PM 5/21/01 -0400, glenn mcdonald wrote: >The _Sports Night_ reruns on Comedy Central are my vote for the only really >good show on TV this year. _Gilmore Girls_ is a runner-up with potential, >but I'm afraid I don't think the actress playing the daughter is good enough >to take it anywhere near MSCL levels. Comparing Gilmore Girls to My So-Called Life is a fruitless endeavor--the charm of the show is that it doesn't portray adolescence as an uninterrupted exercise in operatic angst, which makes it infinitely less tiresome. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:52:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... On Mon, 21 May 2001, glenn mcdonald wrote: > The _Sports Night_ reruns on Comedy Central are my vote for the only really > good show on TV this year. Again, woe to ABC for cancelling this series. Even though the second season's Casey-Dana "dating rule" nonsense veered toward the desperate in an attempt to avoid the David-Maddy problem (defused sexual tension once the characters get together), the first season is an unabashed joy to watch. Robert Guillaume's return after his stroke is heart-rending, and Sabrina Lloyd is just flat-out hot! As for current TV, THE SOPRANOS fizzled out this year - too many unaddressed and undeveloped subplots, fuzzy characterization, loose ends not tied up (where is the Russian in the woods?), random mood swings from most of the characters. THE SIMPSONS was a disappointment, except for the GO-like episode with Linguo ("I thought he was a party robot!"), although I'm developing a real soft spot for FUTURAMA. And, of course, THE DAILY SHOW rules. Favorite new show: THE JOB, which luckily got renewed. Started out liking ED, but it got a bit too winsome for me. I told many, many people, J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:17:45 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... At 03:52 PM 5/21/01 -0700, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: >As for current TV, THE SOPRANOS fizzled out this year - too many >unaddressed and undeveloped subplots, fuzzy characterization, loose ends >not tied up (where is the Russian in the woods?), He stole the car and took off. One assumes he will be making trouble for Paulie with the Russians next season. All in all, though, I agree with you; the final episode was more like a mid-season cliffhanger than a real season finale. And the next season doesn't start until April of next year--another hellishly long wait. Grrr. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley I inherently believe that man is a foolish, self-defeating, self-destructive creature who can't stand too much success, too much pleasure--he dies of satisfaction, because his life has outlived the potential for his boredom to override it. So he just can't go on any longer....Everytime there's a disaster or something goes wrong, I start tallying things up and wondering *not* that it was such a tragedy, but wondering only, "So few? Is that *all*?" Anton LaVey, interviewed in _Modern Primitives_ [1989] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:29:06 -0700 (MST) From: Dennis Subject: Re: [loud-fans] foot in mouth disease On Fri, 18 May 2001, dmw wrote: > On Fri, 18 May 2001, dmw was careless again > > > average 28-year old CEO probably has no clue, but you'd have to go down > > the unemployment line to ask 'em. I find it depressing to realize that I have more business sense than the average 28-year old CEO and that is not saying much, let me tell you! I'm beginning to think that most CEOs are charlatans. Once and a while one gets lucky through no skill of his own and has a successful company. Apropos of nothing, I've been reading _Patterns of Software: Tales from the Software Community_ by Richard Gabriel. Richard Gabriel founded Lucid, a lisp vendor that Scott Miller, Paul Weinike and Rob Poor worked at. I think Zach worked there at one point as well. I remember the end of Lucid from correspondence I was having with Scott at the time. It is interesting reading about it several years later. I've not run into references to any of the loud family yet. - -- - --- Dennis Sacks dennis@illusions.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:27:04 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... On Monday, May 21, 2001, at 05:25 PM, glenn mcdonald wrote: > Buffy lost me last season; I don't think they ever got over the loss of > Cordelia, and the attendant removal of Buffy et al's social-underdog > status > to go with the monsters. I'll try to give it another chance next year, > though, as I'm not yet convinced they can't (and won't) fix it. It would have been hard to take Cordelia along with the move to college, but you can always watch her on Angel. So, who snuffs it tomorrow - Ben or Dawn? - - Steve __________ "we must therefore reject the central animating idea of modern Establishment Clause analysis: that taxpayers have a constitutional right to insist that none of their taxes be used for religious purposes." - Michael McConnell, Bush Circuit Court nominee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:57:07 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] foot in mouth disease On Monday, May 21, 2001, at 08:29 PM, Dennis wrote: > I'm beginning to think that most CEOs are charlatans. Once and a while one > gets lucky through no skill of his own and has a successful company. Just look at the number of management fads that come along. And the buffoon that currently occupies the office of President shows you the real value of an MBA from an elite university. - - Steve __________ "we must therefore reject the central animating idea of modern Establishment Clause analysis: that taxpayers have a constitutional right to insist that none of their taxes be used for religious purposes." - Michael McConnell, Bush Circuit Court nominee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:33:54 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... Jeffrey says of BUFFY: >I kind of agree that they've become rather too operatic this season - but >still, when they can pull off an episode like the one in which Joyce >Summers (Buffy's mother) died, well then it's all worth it. Oh - and the >previous season's _Hush_ was just wonderfully creepy as well as formally >daring for a sitcom/drama (no, I'm not going to call it a "camel" or >"dramadery" or whatever the industry wants me to say). Wasn't 1985-86 the major year of the "dramedy" -- HOOPERMAN, DOOGIE HOWSER, FRANK'S PLACE? I still love that latter show, and can remember almost all the episodes and characters without straining too hard. Now if I only knew where I put my watch four hours ago... >Now if only Fox would put that show in place of the ass-dragging _King of >the Hill_ on Sunday nights, I'd be happy. Urp -- this was a show that only missed my "best" list because I arbitrarily limited it to ten series. Care to elaborate? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 01:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] foot in mouth disease > I'm beginning to think that most CEOs are charlatans. Once and a while one > gets lucky through no skill of his own and has a successful company. There's a growing body of papers from economists which argue exactly this. One interesting example (or perhaps I only find it interesting because I was an RA on the paper) looks at CEOs pay of a bunch of different oil companies and finds that they took home enormous bonuses when the company did well, but they weren't symmetrically "punished" when the company did poorly. Maybe that's fair enough, but the authors show that the fat years for the company are due almost entirely to oil price hikes by OPEC, which is to say they are not due to any business acumen on the part of CEOs. - --Michael M np The Waterboys "Room to Roam" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 00:57:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the pain, the pain... On Mon, 21 May 2001, steve wrote: > On Monday, May 21, 2001, at 05:25 PM, glenn mcdonald wrote: > > > Buffy lost me last season; I don't think they ever got over the loss of > > Cordelia, and the attendant removal of Buffy et al's social-underdog > > status > > to go with the monsters. I'll try to give it another chance next year, > > though, as I'm not yet convinced they can't (and won't) fix it. > > It would have been hard to take Cordelia along with the move to college, > but you can always watch her on Angel. I rather thought Buffy was at least some sort of underdog in college - and what with Xander, Willow, and Tara variously battling their respective underdoggities, that aspect of the show hardly went unexplored. The problem I had was that I never liked Riley. (BTW, three cheers for Willow, one of my favorite TV characters ever.) And I really like what they've done with Cordelia on _Angel_ - although I really do wish they'd stop killing off the most amusing characters. I liked Doyle, even though I knew he was gonna be toast - and how can you not love the karaoke demon (now revealed as preferring the name "Lorne" - awful joke there)? Unless, of course, his species has the hitherto-unnoted capability of heads that can regrow bodies... _Angel_, too, suffered a bit this season from ambition: a bit too operatic at times. Both _Buffy_ and _Angel_, one hopes, will have slightly less world-shaking plotlines next season - we'll see. Miles asked me to elaborate on my _King of the Hill_ dis: will do. At least they've ditched the "let's make Peggy Hill into an annoying crazy woman" trend of last season - but I find the show increasingly dependent on _Beavis & Butt-head_ type of humor (but not as funny), saccharinity (again, not as bad as the previous season), and not enough on the sorts of realistic interactions and depictions of Texas social mores that were the show's strengths in its first seasons. Also, I'm increasingly annoyed at the show's cheap-ass animation, and at the fact that there's no real *reason* for it to be animated. Unlike either of the Matt Groening-connected shows (incidentally, some magazine had a photo of him on a recent cover - change my glasses, change my beard to a goatee and I could be him for Halloween), there's little in KotH that couldn't be done by live actors. And with the animation so cheap and wooden-looking, I think the show loses much more than it gains. (Okay, so who do we cast in the live version? My boss would be a perfect Hank Hill - but he's not an actor & none of you know him...) Basically, I find myself looking at the clock - "damn, _Futurama_'s over...how long till _The Simpsons_ begins?" Oh yeah: last week's _Simpsons_ rerun contained my second-favorite Simpsons visual/sound gag: the empty room with the jazzbo trumpeter playing the "ha-ha" lick. (So Stewart: ever stare malevolently out your window muttering, "For I am the mayor of Albuquerque"?) And while I'm at it: I was really beginning to enjoy _Lone Gunmen_. Hey - is there a set of Lone Gunmen action figures - complete with the Lone Gunmobile? Thought not. (And shush yo' mouth about an "Yves Adele Harlow" action figure, Miles...) - --Jeff, animated operatic underdog J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #87 ******************************