From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #61 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, May 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 061 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Bevis Frond [Matthew Weber ] RE: [loud-fans] RE: Secret Box [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Tedious list server enquiry [jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] Bevis Frond Any Bay-Area loudfans interested in the Bevis Frond show (5/18, Bottom of the Hill)? Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley It is always a question of proving the real by the imaginary, proving truth by scandal, proving the law by transgression....every form of power, every situation speaks of itself by denial, in order to attempt to escape, by simulation of death, its real agony. Jean Baudrillard, _Simulations_ [1983] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:17:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: [loud-fans] RE: Secret Box On Wed, 2 May 2001, Jeff Downing wrote: > It should be clarified that the Secret Box is a collection of live tracks, > outtakes, and jingles, and that the sound quality of some of the live > material is far from pristine. ah, yes, that is true. however, most of disc 2 is radio sessions and a small portion of disc 3 is unvarnished Brave Words material (i don't know, maybe they were bonus tracks, or maybe these are different mixes); that's what i was talking about. this is how good the live material is: i even like the instrumentals. the only flaws i can see... 1. there's no track list on the outside 2. they shipped it without padding, so i have to replace the case 3. no "Bad Dancer" i think i'm problem i'm having describing how much everyone should want this set is that i'm almost never happily surprised by reissue/archival discs. you know? "15 unreleased tracks" always turns out to be 5 rare songs, 2 instrumentals, 3 familiar b-sides and 4 remixes. "complete b-sides collection" is always missing two tracks, even though the disc is only 38 minutes long. the bonus disc sucks. the song title you've never heard before is actually the big hit with earlier (worse) lyrics. the estranged guitarist's contributions have been edited out. the 'lost album' is only six songs long. need i go on? admittedly, i don't know how complete Secret Box is, but it's voluminous enough to quash that potential complaint. (it has the two b-sides i was eager for: "The Drug Magicians" and "Whole Lot Of Non".) the live material really is two full albums' worth of quality early-NZ jangle and drone. the artwork is not only attractive but also in the style of the early Chills documented within. i even tend to think this would be a good introduction to the band, except for its overwhelming bulk. it made my day. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:58:09 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tedious list server enquiry Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > > nothing awful has happened as a result. > > Yet. well, considering i've been on the biggest one for almost 6 years... > The current setting pretty much ensures that the only stuff that gets to > the list is stuff the sender *wants* the list to see. unless the sender gets a personal email and assumes it's a post and replies to the whole list, which has happened to me twice on this list so far > And of course, one can always manually type in the list address. My usual > procedure, btw, is to hit reply, say "yes" to include message, say "no" to > reply to all, and then type in the nickname for the list address ("loud" - > how hard is that?), and then edit the message. This method also prevents > the person whose message I'm responding to from getting duplicate copies > of replies (Exaggerated Range Claims, meet Duplicate Replies...). realize that not everyone's email program works that way. options and procedures vary, and some are more unweildy than others. > I greatly prefer the ability to choose features rather than having > "features" chosen for me well, that would be nice, but if you're running lists out of a free server that provides only certain options, then you just have to deal with what you're dealt. i think the big issue is whether or not, on a particular list, most replies to a post would tend to be for the list as a whole (a topic of discussion) or for the individual who posted (replies to requests for information that the whole list doesn't need). Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:08:11 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] makes ya stop and go "huh?" Roger Winston wrote: > > I love the headline to this article: > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010502/ts/preventing_suicide_4.html > > At first I thought it was a story about Bush deciding to invade China or something. yeah, it certainly sounds like some military maneuver! i thought it was strange (perhaps uninformed) that they mentioned schizophrenia as a cause, but not bipolar disorder, when i have read that the majority of suicides are bipolars, and that an estimated 20% of bipolars commit suicide. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:00:55 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tedious list server enquiry > The current setting pretty much ensures that the only stuff that gets to > the list is stuff the sender *wants* the list to see. unless the sender gets a personal email and assumes it's a post and replies to the whole list, which has happened to me twice on this list so far >>>>>>>>>> I'm following all this with interest, but the above confuses me. How does the setting on loud-fans affect where the reply to a personal email goes. I'm from Juno, so this is all very strange to me. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 23:45:05 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tedious list server enquiry Dana L Paoli wrote: > > I'm following all this with interest, but the above confuses me. How > does the setting on loud-fans affect where the reply to a personal email > goes. it doesn't. it just underscores that the major problem with email getting sent to the wrong person or people is one of the sender being careless, regardless of the options. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 23:26:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience I'll try brevity: King Crimson, 1981 or so, Ann Arbor, MI - the club was called Second something or other. Best sound I've ever heard at a show - it was loud without being overpowering or distorted. And the Fripp/Belew/Levin/Bruford team was at its peak. Sonic Youth, mid-eighties, Headliners, Madison , WI - Noteworthy mostly because, as someone else said, I realized that sound was a solid. I felt literally pressed against the back wall. Television, reunion tour, Shank Hall, Milwaukee, whatever year that was - Partially this was some sort of nostalgia at work, but since the place was packed with people ecstatic with that nostalgia and the band fed off it, it transformed the show into something timeless. The best moments of Wire in Chicago, May 10, 2000, were amazing: although it lacked the theatrics of the London show Miles described, the climax of the show was among the best I've witnessed. Beginning with some paint-peeling feedback that led into a breakneck version of "Another the Letter," then a brutally intense assault on "Mercy" (Robert Gotobed hammering the 16th notes near the end like some sort of remorseless, impassive god), into a race through "12XU," and finally into the relentless pound of "Drill," featuring Graham Lewis's scream therapy, shards of molten volcanic feedback, and the kind of atonality that would have made Charles Ives cower behind his mother's skirts.* And the ringer in the bunch: Fetchin' Bones, in Madison, WI, around 1987 or so. I'm sure my falling in lust with Hope Nicholls helped things here - but somehow, these folks (whom I hadn't heard of - and whose albums, the two I bought, sit gathering dust) just put on this amazingly intense show. Footnote: who were they opening for? That's right: Game Theory - in the midst of the Dress Wars. Sadly, I think I was completely blitzkrieged by the first act and had nothing left to give - I really don't remember their set, even though they're who I'd gone to see, sound unheard, based on lots of good press. There are probably more that I can't think of...oh well. - --Jeff Jeffrey Norman, Posemodernist University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Dept. of Mumblish & Competitive Obliterature http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ np: The Fletcher Pratt _Nine by Nine_ * a reference to an infamous Ives remark, which I can't quite call to mind enough to summarize...anyone else know the one I'm thinking of? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 23:35:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tedious list server enquiry > > The current setting pretty much ensures that the only stuff that gets to > > the list is stuff the sender *wants* the list to see. > > unless the sender gets a personal email and assumes it's a post and > replies to the whole list, which has happened to me twice on this list > so far Principle One: No software can completely eliminate human error. And sometimes in attempting to do so, it makes things worse. I repeat Dan's worthy advice: go to , where all of these objections are addressed. > > And of course, one can always manually type in the list address. My usual > > procedure, btw, is to hit reply, say "yes" to include message, say "no" to > > reply to all, and then type in the nickname for the list address ("loud" - > > how hard is that?), and then edit the message. This method also prevents > > the person whose message I'm responding to from getting duplicate copies > > of replies (Exaggerated Range Claims, meet Duplicate Replies...). > > realize that not everyone's email program works that way. options and > procedures vary, and some are more unweildy than others. If your mailer doesn't allow you to provide a simple nickname for a mailing list, or the ability to delete recipients, you need a new mailer. And frankly, I've never heard of a mailer that lacks both features. > > > I greatly prefer the ability to choose features rather than having > > "features" chosen for me > > well, that would be nice, but if you're running lists out of a free > server that provides only certain options, then you just have to deal > with what you're dealt. Which is why the decision the list administrator makes as to which options to deal is so important - and why too much convenience is a bad thing. See the URL above etc. etc. etc. Given Principle One above, that sort of convenience is equivalent to saying, "well, most of the time I drive to the store, which is all left turns, so the car ought to be set to always turn left unless I say so." And when one forgets to say so? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Californians invented the concept of the life-style. ::This alone warrants their doom. __Don DeLillo, WHITE NOISE__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:39:03 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience At 11:26 PM 5/2/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Sonic Youth, mid-eighties, Headliners, Madison , WI - Noteworthy mostly >because, as someone else said, I realized that sound was a solid. I felt >literally pressed against the back wall. My experience for this was My Bloody Valentine at Liberty Lunch in Austin, early 1992. During the legendary Wall-Of-One-Chord, I actually could feel the air being pushed forward by the amplifiers. The only louder musical experience I've ever had was last year when I saw the Nihilist Spasm Band play at this little pool bar on College Street in Toronto, but at least I was wearing earplugs for that one. Stewart NP: "Raider" -- Judy Henske and Jerry Yester ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 00:58:08 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tedious list server enquiry > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html I'll summarize, since the linked page goes on for quite a while: The way the list is set up now: - - To reply to the list: Reply to All - - To reply to the author: Reply If the list was set up with Reply-To pointing to the list: - - To reply to the list: Reply or Reply to All - - To reply to the author: Reply, then delete the list address from the To field, then go find the author's email address in the From field of the original email and copy and paste it into the To field of your outgoing message. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 01:01:23 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience The Bangles at the Beacon Theater in NY 1989. I've never seen a more intense show. Everyone put their all into it, rocked, and also were so tense with each other on stage that it was no wonder that by the end of the year they broke up. The most intense was the middle third, Sue really got into I'll Set You Free, which seemed to annoy the rest of the band, and when Vicki introduced Bell Jar, she literally stomped across the stage banging on her guitar, a few songs later. Debbi had to calm things when she said, a couple of songs later, "okay the heavy part is over now." At the end they did some very interesting stage moves. Sue falls to the floor, legs spread, Michael and Vicki go over to her, and while their playing, their thrusting their guitars between her legs. Then Sue and Michael did the same thing with Vicki a few songs later. It was so wild, just couldn't beleive it. And their all straight, well maybe not Michael, I've always wondered about her, and that VH1 special on them made me wonder more from what she said during it. Andrea ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #61 ******************************