From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #59 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, May 2 2001 Volume 01 : Number 059 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Vocal range (Scott content!!!) ["Phil Gerrard" ] Re: [loud-fans] The Doubtful Palace and other miscellany [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie [Jon Tveite ] Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie [Dan Schmidt ] Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Home on the Range [Dan Schmidt ] Re: [loud-fans] Rotary Connection ["Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] Vocal range (Scott content!!!) Jeff wrote: > This is the pet peeve: music critics who cluelessly repeat blather > about vocal range who clearly don't know what it means. I've heard > singers described as having up to a *seven*-octave range. To put this > in perspective, a *piano* has a seven-octave range (okay, seven > octaves plus a minor third...unless you've got a Bosendorfer, in which > case add the eighth octave bassward, I think). Critics have a tendency to misapply musical terminology when they're impressed with something and want to pretend that they really know *why* they're so impressed. I've seen the five- to seven- octave vocal range description applied to both Howlin' Wolf and Captain Beefheart, neither of whom as far as I can remember demonstrated anything extraordinary in terms of range, but I think the critics in question were trying to convey something of the power of those guys' voices, and perhaps misunderstood 'range' as something analogous to (and more erudite-sounding) than... umm... 'depth', perhaps? Anyway, as with so many other aspects of technique (if vocal range can even be considered as technique, rather than as a natural gift) what matters is the application of the skill. For example, Mariah Carey's falsetto on, what was the song, 'Emotions' (?) is one of the most irritating fingernails-on-a- blackboard musical moments I've ever been unlucky enough to hear. On the other hand, the very moment when I fell hopelessly in love with Scott's music was during 'Where You Going Northern', the second GT song I ever heard: that effortless glide from his 'regular' voice to falsetto was the most exhilarating sound I'd heard in years - peace & love phil JP (Just Played, last night): 'Isolation Drills' again. I'd already decided that Doug Gillard, along with Tommy Keene, was one of the few players I'd consider to be a spiritual heir to James Honeyman-Scott - high praise in my book - but for the first time I realised what an incredibly good sparring partner Nate Farley is. So when do we get a London show, huh? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 07:45:45 -0500 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] The Doubtful Palace and other miscellany Mr. Walters Announces: >I've just launched a music web site called The Doubtful Palace >(http://www.doubtfulpalace.com)... Cool site Tim, I will be visiting often. And no bugs that I found. >...featuring previews of Slaw's SNAKES & LADDERS CD, >SF local heroes Shackleton, Shouting Distance's cover of >"Inverness", and many other bands that don't begin with "S". I recently did a mix tape for no one in particular containing only bands that start with S that turned out surprisingly well, and surprisingly well received by it's intended audience. A shout out to any British etymology fans we may have here, what is the origin of the phrase "half inch", meaning pinch, nick, liberate, steal? And while I'm at it, is "no harm no foul" a legal phrase or simply lifted from sports? Holy Zarquon's singing fish, Russ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:55:30 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] The Doubtful Palace and other miscellany Russell wrote: > A shout out to any British etymology fans we may have here, > what is the origin of the phrase "half inch", meaning pinch, nick, > liberate, steal? You got the correct derivation immediately - it's simple rhyming slang for 'pinch'. phil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:09:43 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] June Tabor I seem to recall that I'm not the only fan of British folk-rock here. I've just recently begun reading about June Tabor, who apparently rivals Sandy Denny as "best British folk singer." Unlike Denny, though, it seems like her recorded output is inconsistent and really difficult to get a handle on. Is there anyone here who is familiar enough with her work to suggest her best work, or at least a good starting point? Aaron n.p. Sandy Denny & the Strawbs, of course. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:21:53 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Doubtful Palace and other miscellany A shout out to any British etymology fans we may have here, what is the origin of the phrase "half inch", meaning pinch, nick, liberate, steal? >>>>>>>>> Cockney rhyming slang, derived from pinch. http://www.aldertons.com/english-.htm for more. It's also a great source for band names. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:38:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie On Tue, 1 May 2001, Matthew Weber wrote: > >Once again, these words might be emanating from between incorrect > >cheeks...but I'm pretty confident in dismissing out of hand talk of > >seven-octave ranges. > > You're absolutely right. I'd be amazed to hear a vocalist with 7 octaves > myself. And of course, we really should count only notes that can be consistently produced (in both senses: all of the time and with consistent tone quality). Yeah, you catch me right after I wake up and I can make a more or less vocal noise that's quite low - but I certainly wouldn't call the resulting note "sung." Likewise, I can intake air and contort something in my throat to make a squeaky noise sort of like air hissing out of a balloon - but that's only useful if I want to make that scratched squawk like Mark E. Smith on the word "unclean" in "Muzorewi's Daughter." (I'm trying to develop it into a James Brown-like squeal...but that's hard to do, since Rose will throw things at me when I'm "practicing"...) Count those (I wouldn't) and I suppose that's a four-octave "range" - but realistically, even on the very best days three is about it. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, whose falsetto ain't what it used to be J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:01:03 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] chitty chitty bang bang? hmmm... Dana wrote - > Cockney rhyming slang, derived from pinch. > > http://www.aldertons.com/english-.htm for more. > > It's also a great source for band names. This is interesting, but I'd take it with a pinch of salt. About a third of these phrases are genuine but *very* outdated, another third are still quite common in East London, while the remaining third I've never heard in my life before, and I doubt have ever been used outside of the website itself: 'Rick Witter' is one of the more glaring examples! peace & love phil Phil Gerrard Senior Admissions Officer The External Programme University of London E-mail: p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk 'Phone: 020 7862 8369 Fax: 020 7862 8363 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:09:39 EDT From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] June Tabor The two records she did with Maddy Prior (Steeleye Span's lead singer) are incredibly wonderful, especially Silly Sisters. They are lost (I say lost because I doubt many people have heard them) classics of that genre. Steve Matrick ------------------------------ Date: 02 May 2001 10:45:11 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey writes: | On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Andrew Hamlin wrote: | | > Five-and-a-half octave singing range AND he gets to cheat death, | | This is the pet peeve: music critics who cluelessly repeat blather about | vocal range who clearly don't know what it means. Sing it, brother. I think Mariah Carey is the last person I heard this about. | | Someone - say, someone who's a music librarian ;) - could look through the | literature and figure what the lowest and highest notes typically called | for for any vocalists - and I'm still thinking we're barely above five | octaves *for all vocal ranges*. According to the Britannica: The lowest note of serious musical literature is a low B-flat with 58 cycles per second, used in bars 473, 475, 477, and 632 of the bass voice of the chorus in the fifth movement of Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 2 (Resurrection). The highest is a high f3 with almost 1,400 cycles per second sung by the Queen of the Night in Mozart's Magic Flute. Which is four and a half octaves: two below middle C and two and a half above. | Once again, these words might be emanating from between incorrect | cheeks...but I'm pretty confident in dismissing out of hand talk of | seven-octave ranges. Yeah. Captain Beefheart had around three, which is good enough for me. Dan, stuck under two - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:00:18 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] June Tabor Here's what I wrote for the Music Hound Guide to Folk (my only published writing, and it's obvious why). Please excuse the weird formatting--it was their way of processing the submission. "Bones" are "stars". A couple of CDs have come out since (ON AIR and A QUIET EYE), but neither is a good place to start. - ---- June Tabor Born December 31, 1947, in Warwick, England. June Tabor says that she wasn't allowed to sing in her girls' school choir because her voice was too low. Little did they know that she would grow up to wield one of the finest vocal instruments in folk music---a rich, smoky contralto capable both of great power and of subtle nuance. Throughout her career, she has avoided all musical compromise; to this day, she refuses to use overdubs, recording her voice and all instruments live in the studio, or in the case of [Aleyn], in front of an inaudible audience. Perhaps as a result, she didn't earn her living from music until quite recently, supporting herself instead as a librarian and restauranteur. From her early days in the folk clubs singing a capella ballads to her current work as an interpreter of contemporary songs, her style has remained immediately recognizable, and her mastery of dramatic understatement unrivaled. What to Buy: The album that first brought Tabor to the attention of the world was her duet with Maddy Prior, [Silly Sisters] (Chrysalis, 1976, prod. Maddy Prior and Robin Black) <5 bones>. Featuring an all-star cast of musicians (including Martin Carthy, Nic Jones, and Danny Thompson), and spotlighting the stunning harmonies of Tabor and Prior, this album remains a touchstone of 1970s British folk. Following this auspicious debut, Tabor made several excellent solo records, characterized by stark arrangements and production, and mostly traditional material. The best of these is [Abyssinians] (Topic, 1983, prod. Andrew Cronshaw) <5 bones>, an almost unbearably intense set of meditations on loss, longing, and death. Although Tabor is largely unaccompanied, the occasional instrumental backing by Martin Simpson (guitar), Dave Bristow (piano and synthesizer), and Ric Sanders (violin) augments the melancholy mood perfectly, especially on Mike and Lal Waterson's "The Scarecrow". What to Buy Next: The same crew returned on Tabor's next record, the somewhat more congenial [Aqaba] (Topic, 1988, prod. Andrew Cronshaw) <4.5 bones>, which includes a surprisingly jazzy version of the 10,000 Maniacs song "Verdi Cries". In the '90s, Tabor changed her band, producer, and record company, and embraced the role of chanteuse, concentrating more on contemporary songs than traditional ones. Her three albums in this style benefit from the inventive piano playing of Huw Warren, but are slightly marred by excessive reverberation and the occasional weak song. The best of the bunch is [Angel Tiger] (Green Linnet, 1992, prod. John Ravenhall) <4 bones>. Worth Searching For: [June Tabor: The Peel Sessions] (Strange Fruit, 1986, prod. Pete Ritzema) is an EP of four unaccompanied songs, three of which are unavailable elsewhere, and contains one of her finest performances in "Donal Og". Despite the 1986 release date, it was recorded in 1977. What to Avoid: Tabor's attempt at jazz standards, [Some Other Time] (Hannibal, 1989, prod. ????) <2 bones>, is an interesting failure, but a failure nevertheless; she seems uncomfortable and stiff in this new milieu. Her collaboration with the Oyster Band, [Freedom and Rain] (1990, Rykodisc, prod. The Oyster Band) <2.5 bones>, aside from a couple of outstanding tracks, is perfunctory, and a serious disappointment considering the assembled talent. The Rest: [Airs and Graces] (Topic, 1976) <4 bones> [Ashes and Diamonds] (Topic, 1977) <3.5 bones> [A Cut Above] (with Martin Simpson) (Topic, 1980) <4 bones> [No More To The Dance] (with Maddy Prior) (Shanachie, 1988) <4 bones> [Against the Streams] (Green Linnet, 1994) <3 bones> [Singing the Storm] (with Savourna Stevenson and Danny Thompson) (Cooking Vinyl, 1996) <3 bones> [Aleyn] (Green Linnet, 1997) <4 bones> Influences: Anne Briggs, Lal Waterson Mary Black ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:05:12 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: [loud-fans] Home on the Range At one point in "Remember", Yma Sumac sings the same pitch class four times in a row, each note an octave higher than the previous one. It's clearly most of her range; she gets a little lower and a little higher, but not much. So call it three-and-a-half octaves. And if that's all Yma's got, that's all *anybody's* got. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:19:34 -0400 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie Andy, Jeff, then Dan: | > Five-and-a-half octave singing range AND he gets to cheat death, | | This is the pet peeve: music critics who cluelessly repeat blather about | vocal range who clearly don't know what it means. Sing it, brother. I think Mariah Carey is the last person I heard this about. <><><><><><><><><><><> I repeat: synthesizer flute patches. - --D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] June Tabor On Wed, 2 May 2001, Aaron Milenski wrote: > Is there anyone here who is familiar enough with her work to suggest > her best work, or at least a good starting point? the album she did with the Oyster Band, Freedom And Rain, would be the first thing i'd look for; it's also the only thing i've heard by her that remotely fits the description "folk-rock". the other albums i have by her (of which my favorite is probably Against The Streams) are all very un-rock, often entirely a cappella. it appears that i disagree entirely with Tim, except that he calls Abyssinians "almost unbearably intense", and i agree that it's almost unbearable. i guess i just like to hear a rhythm section every once in a while; Tabor's voice sounds much richer to me when she's murmuring a Pogues lyric rather than showing off what i assume would be impressive chops if i had an ear for that sort of thing. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:05:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey writes: | Once again, these words might be emanating from between incorrect | cheeks...but I'm pretty confident in dismissing out of hand talk of | seven-octave ranges. Can human beings even detect seven octaves of distinct notes? I have a hard time imagining that I could. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:40:58 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie >Now think of that '70s song, "Lovin' >You" or whatever that was sampled on that Orb track about ten years ago Minnie Riperton's "Lovin' You" indeed--and hey, don't forget the song's South Park episode, far more >au courant< than the Orb business. Incidentally, I read that Minnie sang in a band called Rotary Connection before she went solo. They sounded, from the descriptions I've heard, like a biracial (and of course bi-sexed) Vanilla Fudge. Could somebody elucidate, and recommend an album or two to start? >I'm guessing that in his recorded output, Tim Buckley (the first one) >displayed a range (including falsetto) from maybe an E or F an octave and >a half below middle C upwards nearly to the C two octaves above middle C. Tim Buckley was actually Timothy Charles Buckley III. His grandfather never recorded, dooming retroactive ascertainments of his displayed range to damndable imprecision. His dad had a steel plate in his head, though. You want the trigger on the doot'n'doo, Andy The pictures were grainy, the movements jerky. But when CNN transmitted live pictures by videophone of a U.S. spy plane crew taking off from Hainan to freedom on April 11, it marked a pivotal moment for television news technology... "There was a knee-jerk reaction the next day," said Peter Beardow, president of the London-based 7E Communications Ltd. "Most major networks rang up and said, `Can we have brochures?"' While the technology used by CNN is not new to TV, and most competitors own some variation of it, the Hainan story represents the videophone's coming-out party. It's likely to popularize a tool used somewhat sparingly to date. A museum that collects journalism artifacts asked CNN to donate its videophone for display, if the network can get it back. Chinese authorities confiscated it. "It was an incredible journalistic coup and a great news story for us," said Cissy Anklan, a curator at the Newseum in Arlington, Va. She believes it was the first unauthorized live TV broadcast from China. CNN's competitors that night had to drive to a satellite facility to transmit pictures. The pictures were better quality than those through the videophone, but came 25 minutes afterward, a clear disadvantage in the competitive world of 24-hour news networks. The videophone's competitive edge is muted in the United States, where in most areas stations have easy access to satellite transmitters. The real advantage comes when a reporter must get to a remote area, particularly overseas. Journalists carry the equipment in a box the size of a briefcase. They use a video camera to take pictures and a small dish antenna beams the data via satellite to an earth station linked to their home office. The data is transmitted at up to 128 kilobits per second, or about twice as fast as a standard telephone modem. Each portable unit costs $7,500, with the office-based receiving unit going for $6,500, Beardow said. The product, called the Talking Head, was developed with CNN and the BBC to provide a live picture of a correspondent reporting on location. Instead, the networks began using it to take pictures of events, not just reporters. "We've gotten all the publicity we could dream of by CNN using the equipment exactly the way we told them not to," Beardow said... [--excerpted from an Associated Press article by David Bauder, http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/05/01/videophone/index.html ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:15:30 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] June Tabor At 09:09 AM 5/2/01 -0400, Aaron Milenski wrote: >I seem to recall that I'm not the only fan of British folk-rock here. I've >just recently begun reading about June Tabor, who apparently rivals Sandy >Denny as "best British folk singer." Unlike Denny, though, it seems like >her recorded output is inconsistent and really difficult to get a handle on. > Is there anyone here who is familiar enough with her work to suggest her >best work, or at least a good starting point? AIRS AND GRACES is my all-time favorite June Tabor album, especially "Pull Down Lads." It's very simple and straightforward, and a fantastic collection of songs. ABYSSINIANS is nearly as good, as is her first duet album with Maddy Prior, SILLY SISTERS. There are no June Tabor albums I outright dislike (I think she's much more consistent than Maddy Prior, actually), but there's something unsatisfying about her collaboration with the Oyster Band--as much as I like both June and the Oysters, I should really like this album more than I do. Others might disagree with me, but I think June's albums are only inconsistent and difficult to get a handle on is you're coming at them from a folk-purist perspective. Her recent albums have been introducing a pretty strong jazz influence and incorporating instrumentation that you wouldn't expect based on the simple acoustic arrangements of, say, AIRS AND GRACES, and that's been turning some people off. Given that you're not a folk purist, I don't think that'll be a problem, but it would probably be best to go in chronological order anyway. Be warned that listening to June Tabor can be a mightily depressing experience. Or, as Charity put it, "She can find depths of existential angst in 'Happy Birthday To You.'" Stewart ------------------------------ Date: 02 May 2001 12:16:49 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Blow Pops and part of my peeve menagerie Jon Tveite writes: | Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey writes: | | | Once again, these words might be emanating from between incorrect | | cheeks...but I'm pretty confident in dismissing out of hand talk of | | seven-octave ranges. | | Can human beings even detect seven octaves of distinct notes? I have a | hard time imagining that I could. Mm, well, as Jeffrey points out, 7 octaves is 84 notes, and a piano has 88, so that's a good test case. Even with perfect pitch, I have trouble hearing the very lowest few notes on a piano as having any particular pitch; they just kinda rumble. I can identify all the ones at the top end, though. So my distinct-identifying range is probably about 7 octaves. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:03 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience I'm interested in knowing what other Loudfans' favorite concert experience was. Which concert just absolutely was THE spiritual, transcendent experience that stayed with you for a long time thereafter. The kind where the band/artist was dead on, there wasn't someone around you being a jackass and screaming "FREEBIRD" or whatever, and when it was over, you wished it lasted much longer. The absolute creme de la creme. Perhaps it was a Loud Family set or, for those of you who were so lucky, a Game Theory set (feeling pangs of jealousy). I rounded it down to four...the most memorable for me are FINALLY getting to see the LF last year in Athens, Ani Difranco a few years back in Asheville, Dar Williams at Variety Playhouse in Atlanta in early '98, and Suzanne Vega at Spirit Square in Charlotte in 1990. Thinking about it and rounding it down to one, the absolute best concert experience for me ever was Suzanne Vega. Spirit square was once a church, so the venue was exquisite; the audience was polite and adoring, and SV was very receptive and told stories to the audience between songs. The whole experience was flawless and captivating. The little plastic castle is a surprise every time, - -Mark, who just discovered that the guy that murdered the retired couple and kidnapped their daughter here where I live was the guy who cut down the pecan tree at my sister's house a few weeks ago...NEAT-O. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:28:33 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Rotary Connection At 12:40 AM 5/2/01 -0700, Andrew Hamlin wrote: >Incidentally, I read that Minnie sang in a band called Rotary Connection >before she went solo. They sounded, from the descriptions I've heard, like >a biracial (and of course bi-sexed) Vanilla Fudge. Could somebody >elucidate, and recommend an album or two to start? No, they weren't as heavy as Vanilla Fudge. They were more like a less funky and more psychedelic-pop version of Sly and the Family Stone. If you've heard the Supremes' "Reflections," that's pretty close to the Rotary Connection sound. There's a best-of on Chess, and I think the two or three albums are also available on their own. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:04:10 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience I'm interested in knowing what other Loudfans' favorite concert experience was. Which concert just absolutely was THE spiritual, transcendent experience that stayed with you for a long time thereafter. >>>>>>>>>> For most questions like this (i.e. best album of all time, favorite song of all time, etc.) I have to make a guess, but in the case of best concert experience it's easy. The Feelies playing Slipping Into Something, which they nailed every time I saw them. Even at the time, I was very aware that it was an untoppable moment, and made sure to catch them whenever possible. One of the things in life that I don't understand is that 1. everyone seemed to realize at the time that the Feelies were something special live 2. they played a ton of concerts, and 3. they were always (as far as I can tell) great, partly thanks to the three hour sound checks they seemed to insist on. So why are there so few live recordings, and why do the ones that I've found stink? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:17:17 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Home on the Range >At one point in "Remember", Yma Sumac sings the same pitch class four times in a >row, each note an octave higher than the previous one. It's clearly most of her >range; she gets a little lower and a little higher, but not much. So call it >three-and-a-half octaves. And if that's all Yma's got, that's all *anybody's* >got. Sorry..."pitch class"? Does that mean she's singing the same figure in different octaves, or which? Tim Buckley (the third) was an intense Sumac fan by the way, Andy "The world's biggest pair of panties, made from acrylic and lace, measured 29.4 ft. (8.97 m.) x 14 ft. (4.26 m.)? They were strung across London's Oxford street as part of a promotion." - --from www.GuinnessWorldRecords.com ------------------------------ Date: 02 May 2001 13:31:06 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Home on the Range "Andrew Hamlin" writes: | Sorry..."pitch class"? Does that mean she's singing the same figure | in different octaves, or which? Technically, 'C' is a pitch class. 'Middle C' is a pitch. There are 12 pitch classes in Western music, but you can sing each one in a number of different registers, creating different pitches. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:33:24 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rotary Connection >Incidentally, I read that Minnie sang in a band called Rotary Connection >before she went solo. They sounded, from the descriptions I've heard, like >a biracial (and of course bi-sexed) Vanilla Fudge. Could somebody >elucidate, and recommend an album or two to start? Minnie wasn't a lead singer for the Rotary Connection, a bizarre somewhat pyschedelic bi-racial band that's more interesting in concept than on record. I'd describe them as a soft-pop/soul/psychedelic mix, I suppose. Minnie's contributions tend to be some really ghostly-sounding backing vocals. Their first album is generally considered their best by most people, because it has some really weird cover versions of well-known songs (thus the Vanilla Fudge comparison, even though the bands don't sound at all alike). I find it a fun novelty, but one that wears off pretty quickly, to be honest. I like the first few songs on ALADDIN, on which they wrote the songs, because of some bizarre string arrangements and other pysch-era weirdness, but the rest of that album is pretty dull. The one album of theirs I'd definitely recommend, though, is PEACE, an album entirely composed of Christmas songs. It's great fun. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:41:28 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience >I'm interested in knowing what other Loudfans' favorite concert experience >was. Which concert just absolutely was THE spiritual, transcendent >experience that stayed with you for a long time thereafter. The kind where >the band/artist was dead on, there wasn't someone around you being a >jackass >and screaming "FREEBIRD" or whatever, and when it was over, you wished it >lasted much longer Well, since the early 80s pretty much every concert experience I've had has been lessened, if not ruined, by annoying slam-dancers or smoke-filled rooms or idiots throwing things at the band, or the concert starting after midnight on a work night, so I'd say that no matter how much I love a band I can't really remember any concert I wished had lasted much longer. That said, this is one of those unanswerable questions to which I really do have an answer. Absolutely, without question, the best live band I've ever seen is Yo La Tengo. I like them on record, but the recordings don't even give a glimpse into the hypnotic brilliance of their live show. The first time I saw them, the at least 15-minute "Blue Line Swinger" was the greatest thing I'd ever heard, and most of what led up to it was almost as mesmerizing. I've often heard cult bands describved with "you really can't tell how great they are until you've heard them live," and this is the only instance in which I understand what that statement means. It makes me wish I could have seen Bad Brains, because they seem to be the most often cited "greatest live band I've ever seen; too bad their recordings don't live up to it" band of my lifetime. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 2 May 2001 10:51:42 -0700 From: mbowen@samoyedsoft.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] June Tabor On Wed, 02 May 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > > There are no June Tabor albums I outright dislike (I think she's much more > consistent than Maddy Prior, actually), but there's something unsatisfying > about her collaboration with the Oyster Band--as much as I like both June > and the Oysters, I should really like this album more than I do. I totally agree; there's something perfunctory about an awful lot of the songs on this album. There's apparently a live version of FREEDOM AND RAIN floating around - a tour sampler that totally cuts the studio version, including the smashing version of "White Rabbit" that they did as an encore. I saw that tour, and was totally blown away. MB np: Paul Westerberg - SUICAINE GRATIFACTION ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:58:30 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience At 01:41 PM 5/2/01 -0400, Aaron Milenski wrote: >That said, this is one of those unanswerable questions to which I really do >have an answer. Absolutely, without question, the best live band I've ever >seen is Yo La Tengo. I like them on record, but the recordings don't even >give a glimpse into the hypnotic brilliance of their live show. The first >time I saw them, the at least 15-minute "Blue Line Swinger" was the greatest >thing I'd ever heard, and most of what led up to it was almost as >mesmerizing. I've often heard cult bands describved with "you really can't >tell how great they are until you've heard them live," and this is the only >instance in which I understand what that statement means. Ditto. I was not a particular Yo La Tengo fan until I saw them live the first time, on Halloween 1995, but that concert, which started with a shaggy, Neil Young-like version of the Dream Syndicate's "Halloween," climaxed with a "Blue Line Swinger" that lasted over 20 minutes and had both a reiteration of the opening five-beat drum pattern and a second go-round of the vocal section--this was apparently a rarity--and ended with an extended encore that featured James McNew singing "Turning Japanese," was easily the best live show I've ever seen. The other two times I saw them were great, but not this great. S ------------------------------ Date: 02 May 2001 14:05:15 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience I'll have to third Yo La Tengo. Plus it's so cute the way that Ira writhes around while keeping his feet planted on the ground. Other memorable concert experiences: Sonic Youth around a dozen years ago. Never have I so much perceived sound as a physical object. Jonathan Richman, any time. Whenever I go see him (and it's probably been around five times, now), I'm high on life for a week afterward. I saw Imperial Teen open for Bettie Serveert, and the show was running late, and they kept playing regardless, until finally the soundman pulled the plug, first on their mics, then on their instruments, then on the entire stage lighting, during their last song, which they however continued to performed until its end, all screaming at the top of their lungs. Naked City. Wow. I just saw Guided By Voices last night and it was one of those 'reaffirm your faith in the power of rock and roll' experiences, 3 hours, 50+ songs, everyone in the audience singing along, bellowing nonsense lyrics as if the fate of the world depended on it. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:10:29 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Home on the Range >Sorry..."pitch class"? Does that mean she's singing the same figure in >different octaves, or which? "Pitch class" is a note name without a specified octave. I.e. "C" is a pitch class, "C#" is a pitch class, etc., while "middle C" and "high E" are pitches belonging to the pitch classes of "C" and "E" respectively. So what I was trying to say is that she sings a note, then the note an octave higher, etc. >Tim Buckley (the third) was an intense Sumac fan by the way, I've been listening to HAPPY SAD a lot lately (ever since I saw a local band do a cover of "Strange Feeling") and am wondering what to get next. STARSAILOR is supposed to be the big deal, right? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:19:42 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience At 12:21 PM 5/2/01 -0400, MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: >I'm interested in knowing what other Loudfans' favorite concert experience >was. Which concert just absolutely was THE spiritual, transcendent >experience that stayed with you for a long time thereafter. The kind where >the band/artist was dead on, there wasn't someone around you being a jackass >and screaming "FREEBIRD" or whatever, and when it was over, you wished it >lasted much longer. The absolute creme de la creme. Perhaps it was a Loud >Family set or, for those of you who were so lucky, a Game Theory set (feeling >pangs of jealousy). For me it's also gotta be a four-way tie, Mark. The Magnetic Fields were fantastic, but I can't figure if it's due to the performance or just the fact that I adore them so heavily. Nick Cave had a crackling charisma, and the show was absolutely electric. I highly recommend anyone who's even partially into Nick Cave's music to see him the next time he comes around on tour; you'll be glad ya did! My very first concert experience was a biggie not only because it was my first but also because it was seeing David Bowie during the Outside tour, which is a hard show to top in my opinion (what's more, I was living in Japan at the time, so I saw it at the Budokan! What a great venue, acoustically!). The Legendary Pink Dots round out the collection; it was a great, intimate show, which I'm sure they'll not be repeating ever here in Portland, Maine, because part of the reason the show was so intimate was that there were only about 30 people in the audience. The band was very accessible, though, mingling with the audience before and after the show, and all in all it was just a warm and pleasant experience. Them's my picks... (the other) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:20:58 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience >One of the things in life that I don't understand is that 1. everyone >seemed to realize at the time that the Feelies were something special >live 2. they played a ton of concerts, and 3. they were always (as far as >I can tell) great, partly thanks to the three hour sound checks they >seemed to insist on. So why are there so few live recordings, and why do >the ones that I've found stink? Not that this answers your question, but I did see the Feelies suck once. I don't know if they had a big fight backstage or what, but I've never seen a band take less pleasure in playing music than they did that night. Normally, though, they were great, and I agree that "Slipping (Into Something)" was always the highlight. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:25:03 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] June Tabor >There's apparently a live version of FREEDOM AND RAIN floating around - a tour sampler >that totally cuts the studio version, including the smashing version of "White Rabbit" >that they did as an encore. I saw that tour, and was totally blown away. Same here. I wish they'd toured first and recorded second rather than vice versa. ON AIR has a few tracks from the tour: "White Rabbit", "All Along The Watchtower", "Wheel's on Fire". "White Rabbit" is definitely the standout. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:27:24 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] favorite concert experience >It makes me wish >I could have seen Bad Brains, because they seem to be the most often cited >"greatest live band I've ever seen; too bad their recordings don't live up >to it" band of my lifetime. I kick myself very hard about this one, because I lived in D.C. for most of the Eighties and somehow never made it to a Bad Brains show. I'd certainly like to see a show that I AGAINST I doesn't live up to. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #59 ******************************