From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #52 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 052 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [MarkWStaples@aol.c] Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs ] Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star [Michael Bowen ] [loud-fans] Titter Tatter [=?iso-8859-1?q?Stef=20Hurts?= ] Re: [loud-fans] say what??? [JRT456@aol.com] [loud-fans] Re: say what??? [Larry Brantley ] Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [Dennis_McGreevy@pr] Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the garbage ban tar [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jef] Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [Dennis_McGreevy@pr] Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs ] RE: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) [Jon Tveite > I am writing these down, and will look for them. Thankyou. M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:41:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) > Jen (7 ear piercings, 1 through cartilage, and plans for a tat) Without currently expressing my response to Mark's anti-tattoo/piercing post, I'll just state my complete loathing for the word "tat." - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ np: John Cale _Sabotage (Live)_ - no, Joe, he doesn't cover the Black Sabbath LP in its entirety... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:08:40 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) I don't know of any other music magazine besides Magnet that covers the indie pop scene so well. Any suggestions are appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>> If you're just trying to keep up with what's out there, may I suggest: the Aquarius records website for wierd and noisy stuff (great new releases section w/reviews). It'll help you find the perfect Japanese-noise-band-collaborating-with-Norwegian-Death-Metal soundtrack to accompany your new tattoo and pierced toe-webbing. the Parasol/Pennyblack/Opal Music websites for twee/pop. Opal Music is especially good for finding out about European releases/singles. the Wall of Sound website for cmj type reviews + release dates. Parasol and Aquarius will let you subscribe to a weekly email that lets you know what's new and provides short reviews. You should be able to find all of these by doing a google search. The only magazine I pay for is Mojo (and I usually resell them a year or two later for close to the cover price, making it effectively free). I've been steered wrong by Magnet and AP too many times to pay any attention to them. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:49:52 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] say what??? On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > np The Swimming Pool Q's THE DEEP END reissue please explain this inflammatory and provocative comment immediately. thanks. - -- tattoo vampire - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.shoddyworkmanship.net -- post punk skronk rawk = the new thing - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = rock music ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:56:35 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star Upping the ante in the self-righteousness stakes: I'm actually running for town board here in Monroe, NY. The lousy job the current board has done in managing development is one of our main issues. If people are interested, I could keep them informed on the nuts and bolts of a local political race. Either that, or I could tell them about how lousy the music scene is these days. MB At 11:42 PM 4/25/2001 -0400, Cardinal007@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 4/25/01 11:25:14 PM, dorseycc@earthlink.net writes: > > >I'm amazed at the vigilance that's required to keep some of the > >powers that be here to be held accountable. > > > >We ALL have much more power than we ever muster. Those who try to maximize >their power are deemed fools; collectively, they can move worlds. > > >Complain about "the administration" or "the government"? Change It! > > >Of course, I'm busy these days standing up against developers in a zoning >battle, so I can feel self-righteous as hell .............. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2001 08:34:35 -0700 From: mbowen@samoyedsoft.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] say what??? On Thu, 26 April 2001, dmw wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > > > np The Swimming Pool Q's THE DEEP END reissue > > please explain this inflammatory and provocative comment immediately. > thanks. > I agree wholeheartedly. If Mark persists in making comments like these, which are clearly meant to startle unwary southern-pop fans, he should clarify himself immediately, giving the necessary web citations and ordering information. MB np: James McMurtry, TOO LONG IN THE WASTELAND ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:44:02 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star Michael Bowen: "I'm actually running for town board here in Monroe, NY. The lousy job the current board has done in managing development is one of our main issues." and previously: "Once & Future North Carolinian" >>>>>>>>> Go home, carpetbagger!!! - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jer Fairall Subject: [loud-fans] Free CDs!! Hey all, I have a few promo CDs from work that I don't want or need, but I figured that some of them may be of interest to people on the list. One CD per person, just to be fair, but first to email me gets it. Emmylou Harris, RED DIRT GIRL - Her latest, much more JOSHUA TREE than anything country. A very fine album, I'm only giving it away because I already bought a copy before receiving the promo. The Januaries, s/t - Lounge-y pop a la Cardigans or maybe St. Etienne. Jets To Brazil, FOUR CORNERED NIGHT - Former "emo" band makes mellow pop-rock record. The Mahones, HERE COMES LUCKY - If you like the Pogues... Rhume, SNACK OF CHOICE - If you like pre-DO THE COLLAPSE GbV... TSAR, s/t - Winner of the Audities 2000 album poll. RED PLANET soundtrack - Not sure if this one will appeal to anyone here. Includes material by Peter Gabriel, Sting, Emma Shapplin, Strange Cargo plus a Graeme Revell score. Jer np: Prince, THE HITS (disc 1) Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:08:26 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stef=20Hurts?= Subject: [loud-fans] Titter Tatter Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I'll just state my complete loathing for the word "tat." Oh, that's a real word? I first thought it was a typo. ;) Toodlepip, - -Stef PS And I'm *not* saying you are that typo, Jen. :) Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:17:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) > I don't know of any other music magazine besides Magnet that covers > the indie pop scene so well. Any suggestions are appreciated. Is Puncture still around? I've never subscribed, myself, but I used to borrow it from a friend once in a while, and thought it was pretty good. That same friend swears by The Big Takeover, to second Stewart's recommendation, second-handedly. I don't make a habit of buying these kinds of magazines, because they just make me want to buy more CDs than I have time to listen to. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:48:05 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] say what??? Count me in as another person very eager to know about the Qs reissue (although if it had been BLUE TOMORROW I'd be even more interested). And speaking of 80s southern pop, I heard Zeitgeist's TRANSLATE SLOWLY, a 1985 DB release, at a friend's house recently. I quite liked it. It turns out that they were an early incarnation of the Reivers, of whom I know nothing. Does anyone have a strong opinion as to the best entry point into their oeuvre? (Y'all did a great job on Hal Hartley, by the way--we loved SURVIVING DESIRE and its associated short films.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:04:58 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] say what??? At 10:48 AM 4/26/01 -0700, Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: >And speaking of 80s southern pop, I heard Zeitgeist's TRANSLATE SLOWLY, a 1985 >DB release, at a friend's house recently. I quite liked it. It turns out that >they were an early incarnation of the Reivers, of whom I know nothing. Does >anyone have a strong opinion as to the best entry point into their oeuvre? TRANSLATE SLOWLY is by far the best, and there's not much else to go on. There's only three Reivers records, SATURDAY, END OF THE DAY and a later one that I forget the name of and don't think I ever actually heard. If I'm remembering correctly (haven't listened to them in years), the Reivers records suffer from the usual '80s production flaws, including an inappropriate drum sound, and Kim Longacre's doesn't sing as much as she does on the first album. Overall, I've long thought that if you like this sort of thing, you're better off sticking to the early Downy Mildew albums. Stewart NP: NOTHING IS--Sun Ra ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:06:27 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] say what??? In a message dated 4/26/01 8:12:00 AM, dmw@radix.net writes: << > np The Swimming Pool Q's THE DEEP END reissue please explain this inflammatory and provocative comment immediately. thanks. >> Not to jump on someone else's good news, but the whole story is at SwimmingPoolQs.com. The bonus tracks are a pretty big deal for those who prefer the band's later work. Fans of the dB label may also be glad to hear that Kevin Dunn is actually putting together that long-promised retrospective. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:08:50 -0400 From: Larry Brantley Subject: [loud-fans] Re: say what??? http://www.swimmingpoolqs.com/images/merchandise/merchandise.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:29:08 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > Without currently expressing my response to Mark's anti-tattoo/piercing > post, I'll just state my complete loathing for the word "tat." well, excuuuuse me! i loathe a lot of words and expressions i read in posts, but i don't feel compelled to post about them. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:58:05 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] say what??? >TRANSLATE SLOWLY is by far the best, and there's not much else to go on. That's too bad--"The Reivers" is a much better name, at least if you're a Faulkner and/or McQueen fan. GEMM seems to have a reasonably cheap copy of TS, so I'll probably start with that. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:03:44 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] say what??? >Fans of the dB label may also be glad to hear >that Kevin Dunn is actually putting together that long-promised retrospective. To include some Regiment of Women material, I hope? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:36:55 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Reivers I have at least two friends who are absolute fanatics about this band, buying bootlegs, chatting with people online, paying outrageous amounts for CDs, etc... For the life of me, I can't understand why, because I've found all of their music to be somewhat generic in an 80s college-radio-pop sense, but if they continue to have a cult to this day, obviously there's something distinctive and interesting about them that I'm just not hearing. They would very strongly argue that TRANSLATE SLOWLY is the band's least interesting album, but then again it's possible that it's the one that non-fans might like best. Tim, if you're interested in chatting with one of the people who's way more knowledgeable about this band than me, please e-mail me for info. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:40:17 -0400 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Mark asks I don't know of any other music magazine besides Magnet [& AP] that covers the indie pop scene so well. Any suggestions are appreciated. <><><><><><><><> hmm... off the top of my head, there's The Big Takeover - punk and indie"pop", high quality writing Lollipop - has been covering quite a bit of metal lately, but still gets in depth w/ poppy stuff, punk, emo, etc. Hit List - primarily punk oriented, but excellent writing, regardless of topic Your Flesh - tends towards noise rock and avant-jazz, w/ plenty of other indie stuff as well CMJ - usually worth it for the CD alone British rags Select and Mojo are quite good also, though their focus is mainstream commercial, not "zine" rooted & indie-undergroundy, but as a U.S. dweller, I find the British market's concept of "mainstream" to be refreshingly different from the "lowest-common-denominator-or-die" bit that prevails here. indiesoda, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:14:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the garbage ban tar On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 Cardinal007@aol.com wrote: > Why you find that a foolhardy system too important to be conducted by the > individuals involved baffles me. It was, of course, a clever turn of phrase, > and certainly strikes a tuneful chord with anyone who reflexively decries > "the establishment" or "the man," > but I have always enjoyed making my own decisions, and decry the folks who > are smarter than me and wish to impose their genius. I fail to see how offering an opinion is "wish[ing] to impose" anything - nor is attempting to persuade others of the justness of an opinion an attempt or wish to impose anything. You praise the power of the voter - I don't think you'd want voters to just shut up otherwise. But I think your faith in "the people" to put their will into effect is misplaced - not because I don't trust "the people," but because a two-party, winner-take-all system cannot reflect such will. Even year-end best-record polls know better than that. For instance: Let's imagine a village of 100 people, and three candidates - Al, Bushie, and Candide - running for elective office in a system like ours. Let us further suppose that Al is highly favored by 40 of these voters, and that 49 of the remaining voters would rather eat hot crushed glass than see Al in office. Those 49 voters, it happens, highly favor Bushie and would rather drink rancid skunk puree than see Al elected. Eleven voters just love love love Candide, and all of them would rather have battery acid nasally injected than see either Al or Bushie elected. So far, clear enough: a plurality favors Bushie, right? But what if, in this village of 100 people, all 89 folks who like either Bushie or Al think Candide would be a fine choice, just not as good as the first two? In our system, 49 people are satisfied...but 51 of them are right pissed off. Funny, though: if Candide were elected (say, in a voting system that took account of strong dislikes as well as strong likes - like 10 votes for first place, 5 for second, and minus 5 for No Way In Hell), 11 folks would be very happy and the remaining 89 happy enough. In the system I describe parenthetically above, Al would get 155 points, Bushie 290, and Candide 555 (if I did my math right). The point of this is, of course, that our system too often forces people not to vote for whom they favor (in which case, your argument about "if people don't like it, change it" would make sense) but *against* those they fear or despise. And of course there's the whole notion that everyone's wishes can reasonably be reduced to only two opposed positions. That tends either toward polarization or a march to the mushy middle. All I know is, very few people bother to vote in this, a country that calls itself the home of freedom and the pinnacle of democracy. > Nothing personal, of course, my voluble friend. Understood. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Californians invented the concept of the life-style. ::This alone warrants their doom. __Don DeLillo, WHITE NOISE__ np: Stephen Malkmus s/t ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:48:02 -0400 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Mark sez: " I really wish someone would explain to me the appeal of permanently marking large amounts of your body, and putting several holes in it that allow infection in." Uh, how 'bout because it looks cool? I think so anyhow. As to the actual process, the endorphin rush induced by exceeding the pain threshold is nifty, too, but if that's all one seeks, jogging or sadomasochism (to make an arbitrary distinction) might better suit. Mark, again: "You're going to get to a point in your life where you're going to [...] look at yourself in the mirror and go, 'My God, what have I done?'" As in, "Those tatoos still look really cool, but why am I married to Kurt Russell?"? I think the key is in contemplating that possibility in advance, and attempting to choose designs which will age well. This is not merely a consideration of dignity, i.e. a banner stating "Hope I Die B4 I Git Old" being a dubious choice, but one of design functionaltity, i.e., thick black lines and large areas of bold color laid in well will age better in the skin than complex fine lines and subtle gradations and shadings. Making sure that everything can be covered by a standard long-sleeve dress shirt ain't a bad idea either. Jeff this time: "...I'll just state my complete loathing for the word 'tat.'" Personally, I tend to refer to them collectively as "ink". "mod" is for modified, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:53:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > This is not the first time I've done this when buying AP. I really wish > someone would explain to me the appeal of permanently marking large amounts > of your body, and putting several holes in it that allow infection in. Yuck. etc. I don't have a big problem with piercing, although I don't always like the way it looks - but I actually have certain reservations about tattoos. Piercings can be removed, and the piercing itself will heal over. Tattoos, however, are considerably more permanent - and certain tattoos suggest a startling inability to imagine oneself changing in the future - which I would connect to a surfeit of "presentism" generally. But I would, wouldn't I (see subject line...). I also think that generally, the aesthetic of most tattoos is pretty lame - if I don't like metal album covers, _Lord of the Rings_ ripoffs, and tangles of barbed wire, why would I like 80% of the tattoos I see? There are, of course, many exceptions to the aesthetic issue (and maybe Janet will emerge from her lurkerdom here to brag about one of them), and tattoos on relatively hidden parts of the body present no particular problem to me. But I'll give you two recently seen examples of the kind that irk me. One, this guy who, among a zillion other tattoos, had an Aerosmith logo tattooed on the side of his neck. He may still love Aerosmith forty years from now...but I kind of doubt it. Even worse, this guy I saw riding a bicycle past me the other day, who had the bridge of his nose tattooed (no, he was not Maori). I guess it's the extremely willful limiting of future options these tattooings represent that bugs me. I shouldn't have to say it, but of course people have the right to tattoo themselves any way they want, regardless of what I think of it. But then, we have people getting offended personally if I happen to think a particular word in the English language is ugly, so who knows what might happen... Blurt! Frag! Kumquat! Paradigmatically! Quaquaversal! - --Jeff, who - in addition to hipster real estate - is also investing in tattoo removal technologies. Our slogan: "Erase the Nineties." J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::we make everything you need, and you need everything we make:: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:36:13 -0500 From: Jon Tveite Subject: RE: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) ===== Original Message From Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ===== >I shouldn't have to say it, but of course people have the right to tattoo >themselves any way they want, regardless of what I think of it. I have given quite a bit of thought to the whole body modification phenom -- which I find interesting but totally alien to my way of thinking -- and of course I've got some theories about what it's about, though I don't have a lot of confidence in them. I'm sure people have myriad reasons for getting pierced and/or tattooed. Some people have attractive tatoos that are placed tastefully, whether highly visible or not. For many, many people, taste doesn't seem to enter in. C'est la vie, I guess. I'd like to get some of the more thoughtful modifiers together some time and ask exactly what their intentions are. It does seem to be, for most, an attempt at communication of some kind. I'm curious to know what people are trying to say with their rings and symbols. The most obvious, to me, implication is something like: "Human bodies are not interesting enough by themselves." If so, I tend to disagree. Most modified people would probably dispute my inference, preferring to think in positive terms, e.g. "If modifications can make my body more interesting, then by all means." I think for some people, there is probably a little self-contempt involved, whether conscious or unconscious -- but by no means do I think that applies to everyone. For many, it seems to be a declaration of ownership, e.g. "This is my body and I can do what I like with it." I don't have a big problem with that, but I guess I feel sufficiently in possession of my body already. I think that for most young folks these days, it is really a fashion statement more than anything else. With fashion statements, the medium tends to be the message. For many, modification seems to advertise their dedication to appearance: "I care so much about looking 'good' I'm willing to stick needles through my skin." Looking 'good' in some socially prescribed way is clearly very important to a lot of people, and people like that tend to seek out other people like that, so body mod is a convenient calling card. I don't think I'll ever get pierced or tattooed. I have a hard enough time picking out posters to go on my walls. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:21:39 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) One of the better reasons to get a tattoo hasn't been exactly been mentioned yet: next to having a dog, they offer one of the best openings for people to approach you. I urge all single loud-fans to run out and get an armband, now!!! - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:44:55 -0700 From: dc Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) > --Jeff, who - in addition to hipster real estate - is also investing in > tattoo removal technologies. Our slogan: "Erase the Nineties." ha! to buttress your point on "presentism," you might also consider: "Erase your 20s." dc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:02:26 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com wrote: > > Personally, I tend to refer to them collectively as "ink". i like that. tattoo is kind of an ugly sounding word, but ink sounds artistic or literary. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:14:12 -0700 From: Joshua Lee Subject: RE: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Jon Tveite offers: > I'd like to get some of the more thoughtful modifiers together some time and > ask exactly what their intentions are. It does seem to be, for most, an > attempt at communication of some kind. I'm curious to know what people are > trying to say with their rings and symbols. The most obvious, to me, > implication is something like: "Human bodies are not interesting enough by > themselves." If so, I tend to disagree. Most modified people would probably > dispute my inference, preferring to think in positive terms, e.g. "If > modifications can make my body more interesting, then by all means." In my circles we had a saying: "Y'know how some people regard the body as a temple? I like to regard mine as an amusement park." Playing with your body can be fun, liberating, and transformative. We also had postulated three primal urges amongst humans: eat, fuck, decorate. Perhaps a little glib, but it's an interesting perspective from which to launch your musings. Keep in mind, too, that body modification is an ancient practice. It's also interesting to compare body art (and let's not forget to include scarification and branding) to other practices that modify the body, e.g. cosmetic surgery, extreme diet, body building. (Trephanation, anyone?) Then there's things like corsettry, foot binding... But as for *reasons*, well, as you suggested, there are many, many. Some are more superficial (e.g. simple fashion statements), some sublime, some profound, some pretentious. My own involve a combination of aesthetics, personal transformation, sensation, flagging, and I can't even think of what else at the moment. And "at the moment" is key. Personal meaning can change over time. Myself? I have no regrets as my perspectives have evolved, but I, too, suspect that a lot of people are going to be looking with doubt at their ink as they enter middle age. My bet is that tattoo removal is going to be a growth industry over the next couple of decades. Doing my best to blur distinctions while keeping the lines crisp, - --Joshua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:16:34 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > But then, > we have people getting offended personally if I happen to think a > particular word in the English language is ugly, so who knows what might > happen... it was the way you put it. you have a right to dislike any word you choose, of course. it seemed like a personal judgement was creeping into it, though. i agree that a lot of decorated people seem to be short-sighted about the decorations they choose, and that a lot of commonly seen ink art is a bit on the tacky side, but there are exceptions galore. and a lot of it just represents differences in taste in general, kinda like monet vs. laser etched unicorns. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:45:59 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) In addition to the high concepts posted here, let's not forget that many people get tattoos and piercings for the same reason that most American gals go into porn: Just not enough attention from Mommy and Daddy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:39:31 -0500 From: Jon Tveite Subject: RE: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) >===== Original Message From Dana L Paoli ===== >One of the better reasons to get a tattoo hasn't been exactly been >mentioned yet: next to having a dog, they offer one of the best >openings for people to approach you. I urge all single loud-fans to run >out and get an armband, now!!! Why not double the effect and get a tattoo of a dog? Or perhaps a dog with a tattoo? Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:00:58 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Jon Tveite wrote: > > I'd like to get some of the more thoughtful modifiers together some time and > ask exactly what their intentions are. i can only speak for myself on this, and as someone not particularly radically modified. i like jewelry, and i've always liked earrings. i used to try to wear clip-on and screw-back earrings, as did my mom, and it was terribly painful. we both have small earlobes and keeping earrings on them requires a tight fit. i would end up with bruises sometimes. it was not fun and limited us to wearing them only on special occasions. so, we got our ears pierced, and now i can wear earrings of any size and shape without discomfort or worrying about them falling off. i just had the standard two, one in each ear, for many years. then i decided to add one because i have a certain aesthetic liking for assymetry, and i also wanted to set myself apart fashion-wise at a time when my lifestyle and tastes ran against the ordinary grain anyway. modifications can serve as a statement of difference or particular affiliations. but it was fun mixing and matching earrings, not being locked into this pair or that pair, but discovering the possibilities of what singles went with which pairs. then we began to move around a lot, and occasionally i just wanted another earring to make things interesting for myself, and because i think earrings are pretty. i sort of got one each place we lived, though it wasn't always a conscious decision, but they began to have a commemorative feel. so, the one i got through cartilage, the most recent one, i intentionally got to commemorate a very special time in my life. now whenever i see it or put an earring in it, i think of what that time meant to me. i've wanted some sort of small tattoo for about 10 years now, but the money and urge never seemed to come together, and when they did i decided i wanted it to be something special. when i found out a particular musician i'm acquainted with and like is a tattoo artist, i decided it would be nice to get him to do one. (that was all planned out last year, but tight schedules got screwed up, and he lives across the country from me, so i'm just waiting for another chance). i have always wanted a design that had both artistic grace and personal spiritual meaning. i think it's a poor choice to go with things like band logos, because who knows what that band might evolve into, or how your taste might change. there are bands i loved as a teen that i consider skeletons in my closet now. but since music is so important to me, the idea of having a musician who has been associated with some important times in my life do the inking adds a nice dimension. i'm an artist. i like tasteful decoration, and that can extend to the body. i also feel that the message i want to convey with the tattoo i want to get is one of hope and uplifting, things i need to remind myself of frequently in light of some of my ongoing personal trials. and now that i have some big scars and other modifications not of the artistic or fashionable variety, i guess i feel less like i would be messing myself up by getting a tattoo. i'm not fond of pain. i've never found ear piercings to be painful, except for some mild soreness caused by sleeping with earrings in until the piercings healed. i'm not looking forward to the pain a tattoo might involve, though some friends of mine have said it's not that bad. i have several female friends with tattoos whose word i trust. i guess i do think it would/will be an interesting experience. interestingly, the modification that caused the most dialogue between myself and strangers, and people even would ask my mother about it, was when i had two very long skinny braids that i actually grew out from very short hair. people always wanted to know 1) are they real? 2) was your hair all that long to start with? 3) what do they mean? it was 3 that was the most interesting, because they didn't mean anything! i had simply seen a model in a magazine while on break at work one day, who had a long skinny braid, and i thought it looked nice, so i started one, then started another later on because it was fun. by the time i cut them off they had gotten long enough to sit on, but they were in the way all the time, and we were moving and starting a new chapter in our lives, so i decided it was time to lose them. i still have them in a little box. now i'm growing all my hair out long enough to sit on (it's getting close now) just because it seems interesting, and always has since my mom told me that her grandmother had hair long enough to sit on. but then i'll probably whack a couple of feet off of it just because it's in the way most of the time and takes a lot of extra care. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:04:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, jenny grover wrote: > it was the way you put it. you have a right to dislike any word you > choose, of course. it seemed like a personal judgement was creeping > into it, though. not speaking for Jeff, i also think "tat" is kind of leaden, and i don't have anything against tattoos. for some reason, "tat" sounds like something you apply with a staple gun. don't read anything into this. re: Jeff on regretting tattoos later... well, sure, it could happen. but the permanence of tattoos isn't a secret from potential onlookers; at worst, you've got a sign on you saying "i was shortsighted when i was a kid". i guess some people would still hold that against you. the only places i'd really want a tattoo are apparently illegal or incredibly painful (back of head, palms of hands, soles of feet). i've thought about getting one on my back, though. it's even legal in massachusetts for now. obSouthernPopReissues: is there a Pressure Boys CD out there somewhere? a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:07:21 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) In a message dated 4/26/01 10:08:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << If you're just trying to keep up with what's out there, may I suggest: the Aquarius records website for wierd and noisy stuff (great new releases section w/reviews). It'll help you find the perfect Japanese-noise-band-collaborating-with-Norwegian-Death-Metal soundtrack to accompany your new tattoo and pierced toe-webbing. the Parasol/Pennyblack/Opal Music websites for twee/pop. Opal Music is especially good for finding out about European releases/singles. the Wall of Sound website for cmj type reviews + release dates. >> Thanks, Dana. Being online for less than three years, I still don't use the services offered me to my full advantage. It's not ingrained in my psyche. I've been reading AP for 14 years I think, and it is a hard habit to break. Computers didn't interest me when I was younger. I suppose I'm similar to many depression-era generation people and computers...I steered clear of them for quite a long time. M np Of Montreal THE GAY PARADE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:11:36 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Aaron Mandel wrote: > > not speaking for Jeff, i also think "tat" is kind of leaden, and i don't > have anything against tattoos. for some reason, "tat" sounds like > something you apply with a staple gun. don't read anything into this. ouch. i guess the word 'tat' for me, until fairly recently, meant to hand-make a particular kind of lace. i picked up 'tat' from my friends who have tattoos. it's just shorthand slang. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:19:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Dana L Paoli wrote: > One of the better reasons to get a tattoo hasn't been exactly been > mentioned yet: next to having a dog, they offer one of the best > openings for people to approach you. I urge all single loud-fans to run > out and get an armband, now!!! Yes - but none of these hold a candle (or an Eminem firecracker) to the Moby Touch game... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::glibby glop gloopy nibby nobby noopy la la la la lo:: np: Cole Marquis _Treasure Island Serenade_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:14:46 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) It's also interesting to compare body art (and let's not forget to include scarification and branding) to other practices that modify the body, e.g. cosmetic surgery, extreme diet, body building. (Trephanation, anyone?) >>>>>>>>>> I recently read an article in the Daily News (I think) which was clearly about Trephanation, and yet the writer seemed to be totally ignorant of the phenomenon, which was kind of odd. As written, it was about two men arrested for attempting to drill a hole in a woman's head in order to bring back her youthful bouyancy. Stated like that, it sounds like a couple of crazy people suffering a shared psychosis. If you explain the phenomenon of Trephanation, though, it sounds much more like a couple of crazy people suffering a shared psychosis. If you know what I mean. Oh, wow, Kristen Hersh's version of "Trouble" from her great new album, which I have accidentally given away to loud-fan Paula, just played in the background of ER. Yay!! - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! 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