From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #51 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 051 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star [Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star At 11:48 PM 4/24/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >One factor I didn't mention is the revivability of the housing stock: if >stuff is just ugly, falling apart, and of zero intrinsic charm or hipness, >then yeah, the interest probably won't be there. I suspect, too, that >Stewart's location in the West might be influential: friends of mine who >moved west are always surprised at how *new* everything is (1930s is >positively *ancient*) - much like East Coasters probably feel about the >Midwest, actually. (What, 1880 is *old*?) So maybe there isn't as much >hipster cachet in the structures themselves. (What's that? My ass is >talking again? Yeesh...) Mmm...I see what you mean, and you're right to a point, but there's two sides to it. As I said, most of the houses in my neighborhood are adobes, and there's *tons* of hipster cachet in those. Some asshole moves to New Mexico, first damn thing they want to do is buy an adobe house, hang a ristra over the door and act like they've owned the place since Georgia O'Keefe was here. But first, there's no shortage of adobe houses, so their individual value remains pretty low; second, after you've re-stuccoed the exterior and fixed the roof (and you *always* have to fix the roof), there's not a whole lot of work you can do on one of these, and a new, completely refurbished adobe is going to look pretty much exactly the same as an old one that hasn't been spruced up in decades. So what's the point? And too, I was talking only about my immediate neighborhood. For a western city, Albuquerque's pretty damned old--it was founded in 1706, and there's people living in houses that were built in the 1700s--and there are districts that have the sort of gentrification appeal Jeff is talking about. There's a couple of neighborhoods downtown filled with these gorgeous old Victorians built in the mid-to-late 1800s, for example, that are becoming much more pricey now that the city is finally moving forward with a comprehensive downtown revitalization plan. (I came thisclose to buying one of them a couple years ago, a beautiful two-story thing built in 1881 with bay windows and dormers and everything, the sort of house I've always wanted. Then the owner took me on a tour of the parts I couldn't see through the windows. I could have lived with the fact that I couldn't stand upright in the basement--it wouldn't have been hard to re-install the washer/dryer connections on the enclosed back porch--but at some point in the 70s, some idiot had gutted the entire top floor and turned it into a giant open plan family room with a wet bar. It would have cost at least twice the $118,000 the woman was asking for the place to put the top floor back the way it belonged.) Then Matthew Weber wrote: >I think the missing ingredient is scarcity. I don't know what kind of >demand there is in Albuquerque for housing aside from the student >population--maybe not much?--but the Bay Area has several important factors >that have exacerbated its housing crisis: 1) the computer industry, which >has been in the South Bay region for quite some time now, went through a >period of rapid growth a couple of years ago, and though of course there's >been a bursting of the bubble, typically real estate prices will stay >steady rather than decrease; 2) there is literally nowhere for San >Francisco to expand to (or the East Bay either, given that the folks who >live in and beyond the hills east of Berkeley & Oakland have finally called >a halt to further development there) Two excellent points. The second is the key one in Albuquerque's case--there's only a limited area for growth on the east side, because the east side of Albuquerque consists of a mountain range. North is somewhat constricted because you start running into Indian reservations once you start heading too far north on I-25. But there is nothing at all stopping Albuquerque from growing to the west and south, and so it is. New subdivisions have been springing up seemingly overnight, and it seems like people would rather buy one of these new homes on the mesa or in the south valley rather than an older place downtown or in the heights. The reason for all this development is that Intel's chip-making plant is in Rio Rancho, a west side suburb, and Philips Semiconductors and the various government labs that are the state's primary employers are in the south valley, and the new employees want to live nearer work if they can. So there's plenty of demand for housing around Albuquerque, but it's largely being sated by new building. Now, in the short term, this is great for people who want to live downtown or in the heights--let me repeat, I was going to buy an 1881 Victorian for $118,000(!!)--but in the long term, it sucks hot donkey ass. Albuquerque is a humungous city in terms of square miles, but it has only about a half-million people. The population density of Albuquerque is about one-third that of Boston, but it covers over twice as much space. The sprawl makes it a complete pain in the ass to get from point A to point B. The traffic is murder, and the waste is appalling in terms of ecological resources used (gas, emissions, etc.). And it's only going to get worse. The population of the state of New Mexico is supposed to triple by 2060, and since over 25% of the state's residents live within the city of Albuquerque, the city is going to explode. The sprawl will get even worse (and even more ominously, our already-depleted water reserves are going to collapse). So you can see why in Albuquerque's case, while I totally recognize that displacement due to gentrification is a real problem, I would actually prefer that the arrivistes and the urban hipsters come into downtown or Nob Hill and buy and fix up homes that already exist rather than just build new ranch houses on the mesa. In my view, urban sprawl is even worse. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 02:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Girls who want boys who like girls On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Dan McCarthy wrote: > The 80's is probably the easiest decade in which to look. One name that > springs to mind immediately is Book of Love, though I don't know if I would > lump them in with N'Sync et. al. (primarily because, well, heck, I > *like* Book of Love!) Book Of Love were three musicians and a singer. They played my college in 1987, and were very nice people. They all signed my friend's sneaker, there after known as "The Sneaker of Love". Their first album's pretty good, too. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:21:38 -0500 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star Matthew and Stewart: >>2) there is literally nowhere for San Francisco to expand to > >Two excellent points. The second is the key one in Albuquerque's >case--there's only a limited area for growth on the east side, because the >east side of Albuquerque consists of a mountain range. North is somewhat >constricted because you start running into Indian reservations once you >start heading too far north on I-25. But there is nothing at all stopping >Albuquerque from growing to the west and south, and so it is. New >subdivisions have been springing up seemingly overnight, and it seems like >people would rather buy one of these new homes on the mesa or in the south >valley rather than an older place downtown or in the heights. Ditto Tucson. Mountains west and northeast, reservation southwest. Tucson is mostly going north, along the valley. Within one mile of our house no less than six new subdivisions (4-6 houses per acre, 30 to 100 houses each) have all gone in within the last three years as they fill in the remaining spaces just inside the city limits. Tucson had the misfortune to have Hughes bring a lot of their California engineers to Tucson, who had $250,000+ houses to sell in CA. Real estate prices never came down from that, so when Raytheon (who bought Hughes and TI (who bought Burr Brown)) brought out engineers from Dallas, they were all complaining about how much more expensive Tucson was than Dallas. As for growth, New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah are pretty much in the same position - we are all wondering how long it will take for Tucson and Phoenix to meet somewhere around Casa Grande (although I have heard that more of the outflow from California is going to Utah than anywhere else). Russ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:18:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the garbage ban tar On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > Then Matthew Weber wrote: > >I think the missing ingredient is scarcity. I don't know what kind of > >demand there is in Albuquerque for housing aside from the student > >population--maybe not much?--but the Bay Area has several important factors > >that have exacerbated its housing crisis: 1) the computer industry, which > >has been in the South Bay region for quite some time now, went through a > >period of rapid growth a couple of years ago, and though of course there's > >been a bursting of the bubble, typically real estate prices will stay > >steady rather than decrease; 2) there is literally nowhere for San > >Francisco to expand to (or the East Bay either, given that the folks who > >live in and beyond the hills east of Berkeley & Oakland have finally called > >a halt to further development there) > > Two excellent points. The second is the key one in Albuquerque's > case--there's only a limited area for growth on the east side, because the > east side of Albuquerque consists of a mountain range. North is somewhat > constricted because you start running into Indian reservations once you > start heading too far north on I-25. But there is nothing at all stopping > Albuquerque from growing to the west and south, and so it is. New > subdivisions have been springing up seemingly overnight, and it seems like > people would rather buy one of these new homes on the mesa or in the south > valley rather than an older place downtown or in the heights. The reason > Now, in the short term, this is great for people who want to live downtown > or in the heights--let me repeat, I was going to buy an 1881 Victorian for > $118,000(!!)--but in the long term, it sucks hot donkey ass. Albuquerque > is a humungous city in terms of square miles, but it has only about a > half-million people. The population density of Albuquerque is about > one-third that of Boston, but it covers over twice as much space. The > sprawl makes it a complete pain in the ass to get from point A to point B. > The traffic is murder, and the waste is appalling in terms of ecological > resources used (gas, emissions, etc.). And it's only going to get worse. > The population of the state of New Mexico is supposed to triple by 2060, > and since over 25% of the state's residents live within the city of > Albuquerque, the city is going to explode. The sprawl will get even worse > (and even more ominously, our already-depleted water reserves are going to > collapse). Milwaukee is experiencing two things right now in terms of housing: 1) sprawl continues westward into Waukesha County, northwest into Washington County, and particularly northward into Ozaukee County. At the same time, 2) there's a growth in urban housing in the city center, with lots of new condos being developed in old warehouse spaces etc. We don't really have the huge economic drivers that were the high-tech startups in the late '90s - so that Rose and I, for example, were able to buy a 1930 brick bungalow in an older residential neighborhood within the city for $89,900 (three years later, it's assessed at a touch over $100,000). So perhaps my somewhat sanguine attitude toward gentrification arises in part from the fact that my neighborhood isn't being directly affected by it, and my city really hasn't felt the bite of hugely rising prices. And in fact, most of the new housing downtown is taking over formerly derelict office or warehouse space - there's relatively little displacement of poor renters going on. As to the redoubtable Cardinal's sarcastic wit: "the people involved" in housing are those who buy and rent - not just real estate investors. (And the point of the military comparison is that everyone is affected by war - but that's obvious, isn't it.) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, ponderously sharing J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:23:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > And if I wasn't explicit about it the last post...I was talking only about > the way things are in a market economy, not the way I think they should > be. Just as war is too important to be left to the generals, housing is > too important to be left to the real estate market. Lack of housing is a huge problem in Manhattan, KS, which is a college town and little else. The university hasn't built a new dorm in 40 years, and the ones they have are falling apart and not very attractive to most students. The shortage drives up not just rents, but the cost of land itself, making the problem increasingly difficult to address. The shortage is particularly acute with regard to affordable single-family units. It is more cost effective for developers to tear down old houses and build enormous duplexes (housing 8-12 students each) in their place, so that's what they're doing, and it is destroying the character of the city's central residential area. Residents are up in arms, but the city commission tends to make sympathetic noises and then side with the developers. So I agree with Jeff that the free market has a huge blind spot in the area of affordable housing. It will never, never be as profitable to build houses for working-class families as building for yuppies or students from the upper-middle class. Only sizable public expenditures will fill the need. Public housing got an understandably bad name from the inner-city projects of the 70s, but I think we know quite a bit more now than we did then. What's missing is the will to do it. "Compassion" is the watchword these days -- as long as it doesn't involve doing anything or spending any money. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:50:08 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) From NME: EMINEM is to appear naked in a COSMOPOLITAN magazine spread next month. The controversial rapper - who has faced fierce criticism from women's groups in the past for his lyrics about violence towards women - will appear with a stick of dynamite covering his private parts. - --dana (who has been gentrified out of three neighborhoods) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:45:30 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) Dana L Paoli wrote: > > >From NME: > EMINEM is to appear naked in a COSMOPOLITAN magazine spread next month. > The controversial rapper - who has faced fierce criticism from women's > groups in the past for his lyrics about violence towards women - will > appear with a stick of dynamite covering his private parts. > --dana (who has been gentrified out of three neighborhoods) i'm staying well away from that issue (all puns intended). Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:59:56 -0300 From: John F Butland Subject: [loud-fans] Blue Oyster Cult: Don't Fear the Reissues Dunno if this has been mentioned on list or not, but figured it was important enough to chance repeating: Blue Oyster Cult: Don't Fear the Reissues By Rob Kemp 04/24/2001 Blue Oyster Cult, the Long Island, N.Y., band that helped to introduce a slightly satirical approach to the hard-rock diaspora in the 1970s, will see four of their classic studio records reissued - with the customary bonus tracks - on June 26. The sequence of reissues begins with the band's self-titled 1972 debut and proceeds through Tyranny and Mutation (1973), Secret Treaties (1974), and Agents of Fortune (1976), which included the band's biggest hit, "(Don't Fear) The Reaper," which reached No. 12 on the Billboard singles chart in 1976. BOC's lineup during this period featured guitarist Donald "Buck Dharma" Roeser, lead vocalist/guitarist/keyboardist Eric Bloom, drummer/guitarist Albert Bouchard, bassist Joe Bouchard, and keyboardist/guitarist Allen Lanier. Unlike the lion's share of '70s arena rock groups, the band's brand of hard rock was sleek and considered, and its use of science fiction and horror imagery was oft employed in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. The group was aided in the latter regard occasionally by Patti Smith and gonzo rock scribe Richard Meltzer. Both contributed lyrics to the band - Tyranny and Mutation included "Baby Ice Dog," the first song co-written by Patti Smith likely to have been heard by anyone outside of lower Manhattan in 1973. Patti Smith's guitarist and rock historian Lenny Kaye penned liner notes for each of the new editions, which include demos and live takes of FM radio classics such as "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" and "Cities on Flame (With Rock and Roll)." Following are the bonus tracks for each Blue Oyster Cult reissue (* denotes a previously unreleased track): Blue Oyster Cult: "Donovan's Monkey" (demo)* "What Is Quicksand?" (demo)* "A Fact About Sneakers" (demo)* "Betty Lou Got a New Pair of Shoes" (demo)* Tyranny and Mutation: "Cities on Flame (With Rock and Roll)" (live) "Buck's Boogie" (studio version)* "7 Screaming Diz-Busters" (live)* "OD'd on Life Itself" (live)* Secret Treaties: "Boorman the Chauffeur" (outtake)* "Mommy" (outtake)* "Mes Dames Sarat" (outtake)* "Born to Be Wild" (non-LP single, studio version) "Career of Evil" (single version) Agents of Fortune: "Fire of Unknown Origin" (original version, outtake)* "Sally" (demo)* "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" (demo)* "Dance the Night Away" (demo)* best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:03:27 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the garbage ban tar In a message dated 4/25/01 12:27:16 PM, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: >As to the redoubtable Cardinal's sarcastic wit: "the people involved" in >housing are those who buy and rent - not just real estate investors. (And >the point of the military comparison is that everyone is affected by war >- >but that's obvious, isn't it.) You're right, of course. The "people involved" are those who buy, rent, sell, and lease. They are all individuals (whether they've banded together as shareholders is immaterial; companies are a legal fiction protecting individuals). The "market" that you decry is them -- those involved. They establish "the market by setting the price. Why you find that a foolhardy system too important to be conducted by the individuals involved baffles me. It was, of course, a clever turn of phrase, and certainly strikes a tuneful chord with anyone who reflexively decries "the establishment" or "the man," but I have always enjoyed making my own decisions, and decry the folks who are smarter than me and wish to impose their genius. Nothing personal, of course, my voluble friend. I don't know you, I'm entertained by your missives, you occasionally offer true insight into issues. If you governed, though, we'd have our revolution revisit us. And my earlier sarcasm never made it to the list; I was still loud-fanning rather than smoeing........... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:12:26 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star In a message dated 4/25/01 12:32:26 PM, jontv@ksu.edu writes: >and it is destroying the character of the >city's central residential area. Residents are up in arms, but the city >commission tends to make sympathetic noises and then side with the >developers. > >So I agree with Jeff that the free market has a huge blind spot in the >area of affordable housing. I noted earlier, in the discussion about San Francisco, that neighbouring areas had determined they would limit increased development. I presume it was by referendum, or by elected folks working on their behalf. Why do citizens of Manhattan, Kansas elect commissioners who sanction such development? Why do they elect state representatives that tolerate management of a state-university, ostensibly a pro bono [sorry, no italics available] enterprise, that fails to house its students? Have you joined with other citizens to raise a ruckus? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:56:30 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) In a message dated 4/25/01 2:57:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << From NME: EMINEM is to appear naked in a COSMOPOLITAN magazine spread next month. The controversial rapper - who has faced fierce criticism from women's groups in the past for his lyrics about violence towards women - will appear with a stick of dynamite covering his private parts. --dana (who has been gentrified out of three neighborhoods) >> Yay. I saw him on the cover of some magazine today in a sleeveless tee, so we all would be sure not to miss his huge (strategically placed by the photgrapher) tatoo. He's so cool! What is the appeal with this guy? I don't get how people can shrug and ignore the hate messages. Is hatred sexy? In a sort-of related story, I picked up the new AP today and Blink 182 are on the cover, and they look so disfigured to me from piercings, (I don't like being visually assaulted) I asked the clerk at Barnes and Noble after paying for the magazine to throw the cover away after I tore it off. This is not the first time I've done this when buying AP. I really wish someone would explain to me the appeal of permanently marking large amounts of your body, and putting several holes in it that allow infection in. Yuck. I mean, it is one thing to want an earring to me (I did once) but to want to pierce like, EVERYTHING on your face? I can understand a tatoo (a friend has a beautiful Celtic image of a deer on his arm, since he's into hunting and fishing and camping), but every square inch of visible flesh? It's a free world. People should be allowed to do whatever they like to themselves in my opinion, but it just pains me to see the excessiveness I've seen. I remember reading about Liz Frazer having her Siouxie Sioux tatoo removed she got when she was a teenager. You're going to get to a point in your life where you're going to pull a David Byrne and look at yourself in the mirror and go, "My God, what have I done?" So many kids now just do the piercings and tatoos because it's the fashion, but you know, the Flock of Seagulls and "new Romantic" Duran Duran hairstyles were in fashion once as well, but thank God for scissors and clippers. The embarassment of being a fashion victim with bad hair is fixable. The costs of undoing piercings and tatoos is far more expensive. Alright, I'm done. Putting on the flame retardant jumper.... - -Mark np The Swimming Pool Q's THE DEEP END reissue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:17:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Pete O." Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) There's a joke about a firecracker instead of dynamite being more appropriate here somewhere, but I'm just too tired right now... - --- MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/25/01 2:57:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > dana-boy@juno.com writes: > > << From NME: > EMINEM is to appear naked in a COSMOPOLITAN magazine spread next month. > The controversial rapper - who has faced fierce criticism from women's > groups in the past for his lyrics about violence towards women - will > appear with a stick of dynamite covering his private parts. > --dana (who has been gentrified out of three neighborhoods) Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:21:42 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > > The embarassment of being a fashion victim with > bad hair is fixable. The costs of undoing piercings and tatoos is far more > expensive. not everyone regrets body decoration later. some continue to get more all their lives. some start getting them in their later years. piercings can grow back. tats are trickier. what offends your sensibilities may be beautiful and interesting to others. if AP consistently has covers that upset you, stop buying it. buying it puts your stamp of approval on their marketing strategies. Jen (7 ear piercings, 1 through cartilage, and plans for a tat) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:23:11 -0700 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star on 4/25/01 6:12 PM, Cardinal007@aol.com at Cardinal007@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/25/01 12:32:26 PM, jontv@ksu.edu writes: > >> and it is destroying the character of the >> city's central residential area. Residents are up in arms, but the city >> commission tends to make sympathetic noises and then side with the >> developers. >> >> So I agree with Jeff that the free market has a huge blind spot in the >> area of affordable housing. > > I noted earlier, in the discussion about San Francisco, that neighbouring > areas had determined they would limit increased development. I presume it > was by referendum, or by elected folks working on their behalf. Why do > citizens of Manhattan, Kansas elect commissioners who sanction such > development? Why do they elect state representatives that tolerate > management of a state-university, ostensibly a pro bono [sorry, no italics > available] enterprise, that fails to house its students? Have you joined > with other citizens to raise a ruckus? The town I live in, Hoboken, NJ, in my opinion has been terribly damaged by overbuilding, and there's no way to reverse what's been done. The quality of so many of the new buildings is really shoddy and I wonder how well they'll hold up over time. Very large high rise buildings just pop up around here within a few months. Meetings at city hall here are so entertaining. I was involved with a group in the early nineties that organized a referendum to overturn the city's decision to build a massive group of high rises along the riverfront with little public space. Now fortunately there's a decent sized public pier and park access along the Hudson River (high rises will still be built-but not so tall and on smaller lot sizes) So through the efforts of alot of people some change did happen-I'm amazed at the vigilance that's required to keep some of the powers that be here to be held accountable. On the subject of music-The Aisler's Set- Terrible Things Happen is a terrific record. Also a wonderful compilation called Renewell-various artists cover Martin Newell songs, I love it. A Stevie Moore cover's on it. You can order it through www.renewell.net . I just returned from a wonderful vacation in Venice and Rome. Saw so much beautiful architecture and paintings and cool fashion. Went to some wonderful and reasonably priced restaurants. (Didn't see any other kind of cuisine than Italian at all, come to think of it) Of course this trip turned into just an excuse to buy SHOES and then more shoes. I checked out a chain record store in Rome and was impressed by the depth of inventory they had on so many artists. I was tempted to spend some time there but decided against it. Internet access in Rome is pretty bad. I was driven around the city on a motorcycle and it scared the life out of me. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:37:32 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) In a message dated 4/25/01 11:29:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@citynet.net writes: << if AP consistently has covers that upset you, stop buying it. buying it puts your stamp of approval on their marketing strategies. >> I don't know of any other music magazine besides Magnet that covers the indie pop scene so well. Any suggestions are appreciated. Oh, by the way, I'm planning on getting Linus tatooed in an inconspicuous place on an upper arm or ankle area of a leg next year...and I'm still thinking about piercing my ear, after 17 years. - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:42:01 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] dot com killed the gargage band star In a message dated 4/25/01 11:25:14 PM, dorseycc@earthlink.net writes: >I'm amazed at the vigilance that's required to keep some of the >powers that be here to be held accountable. We ALL have much more power than we ever muster. Those who try to maximize their power are deemed fools; collectively, they can move worlds. Complain about "the administration" or "the government"? Change It! Of course, I'm busy these days standing up against developers in a zoning battle, so I can feel self-righteous as hell .............. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:44:40 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] where did I put those matches... (ns) At 11:37 PM 4/25/01 EDT, MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: >I don't know of any other music magazine besides Magnet that covers the indie >pop scene so well. Any suggestions are appreciated. The Big Takeover kicks both AP and Magnet's asses on a regular basis (as does, if I may say so myself, Amplifier), but they won't give you the self-righteous satisfaction of making a scene at the cashier's, so I can see why you might not want to read them. S ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #51 ******************************