From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #30 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, April 9 2001 Volume 01 : Number 030 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Scary summer movies ["\(The Arch-Villain\) West" ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) ["Phil Gerrard" ] [loud-fans] one more on the smiffs [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] RE: Eminem in Lone Star Saloon [Jer Fairall ] RE: [loud-fans] Unsolicited comments on old CDs [Tim Victor ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) [Elizabeth Setler ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) [Stewart Mason ] [loud-fans] Kubrick/Westlake ["Phil Gerrard" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:05:14 -0700 From: "\(The Arch-Villain\) West" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Scary summer movies > The Birds, Psycho, Frankenstein, and Night of the Living Dead > > I remember these movies were shown once a year on local television in the > summertime. > Night of the Living Dead was especially terrifying. I haven't seen > Frankenstein in a long time--but I remember it was very frightening. I fondly recall the days of local television -- movies at night, movies till dawn, movies all weekend long. Here in L.A., Channel 13 in particular ran a lot of crappy 70's sexploitation flicks, which were made all the sillier by editing out the naughty bits. One that springs to mind is Gas Pump Girls, in which a young woman endeavors to save her uncle's gas station (said uncle portrayed by Bowery Boy Huntz Hall) from insolvency by enlisting her large-breasted friends to A) operate the gas station and B) have lots of sex. This film certainly had an impact on my life; you wouldn't believe how integral sex is to my management style. It takes up most of the training manual. Channel 5 ran the cool Hitchcock movies you named, along with somewhat less cool movies such as (boy, have you opened up a can of memories): Parrish -- starring Troy Donahue as a have-not who works on a tobacco plantation, falls in love with some girls, and runs afoul of big-time-have plantation owner Karl Malden, who chews scenery like bubble gum. Brainstorm -- not Natalie Wood's last movie; this one was from the mid-60's, and starred Jeffrey Hunter as a guy who fell in love with the young wife of his old boss, and devised a bizarre scheme to kill the boss and get the girl that involved feigning insanity. Directed by William Conrad, of "Cannon" and "Meanwhile, back at Wossamotta U" fame. Imitation Of Life -- the late 50's remake, with Lana Turner and Juanita Moore as white and black (respectively) women who are seemingly doomed to raise their daughters in a soap opera. The plot line with the black woman's daughter, who passed for white with unsatisfactory results for all concerned, was far more interesting than Lana Turner's entire career, Johnny Stompanato's death excepted. Grand Prix -- not necessarily one of director John Frankenheimer's best movies, but it did have James Garner, Yves Montand, and Toshiro Mifune, as well as excessive split-screen usage and some kick-ass racing footage, including a truly harrowing crash in the first twenty minutes. I miss the movies on local TV. Home video has its advantages, but it seems like people used to pay more attention to movies back then, having no pause button and all. I suppose the effects of home video on film viewing and film making could be a whole other topic of discussion, but perhaps not right now. West ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:08:44 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Eminem in Lone Star Saloon Quote of the day-- (Though I abhor violence, the cartoonish image in my mind from this statement of a karmic debt being paid made me think of justice being served, even if it isn't the right way, in my opinion. I could come to like Megadeth): "I would like to see Eminem walk through a hard-core-leather bar in San Francisco and see what happens to him" (Dave Mustaine of Megadeth) M np Love Tractor THE SKY AT NIGHT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 07:16:24 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Eminem in Lone Star Saloon At Monday 4/9/2001 08:08 AM -0400, MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: >Quote of the day-- (Though I abhor violence, the cartoonish image in my mind >from this statement of a karmic debt being paid made me think of justice >being served, even if it isn't the right way, in my opinion. I could come to >like Megadeth): > >"I would like to see Eminem walk through a hard-core-leather bar in San >Francisco and see what happens to him" (Dave Mustaine of Megadeth) Never having been to a hard-core-leather bar in SF, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Could you (or this Dave person) please explain? Are these bars filled with people who visit violence upon any lost homophobes who happen to wander in? Or just the celebrity homophobes? Or what? Thanks. Later. --Rog Roger Winston/Reign delle Rane "Not every candle burns" http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:13:18 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] RE: Eminem in Lone Star Saloon Mark quoted: > "I would like to see Eminem walk through a hard-core-leather bar in > San Francisco and see what happens to him" (Dave Mustaine of Megadeth) Although I also have no problem with the cartoonish karma of the scenario, the idea of Mustaine as some kind of gay rights advocate is *really* weird. Maybe I've missed some kind of Damascene conversion over the last few years, but I was under the impression that Mustaine, like many of his peers in the '80s metal scene, was a major homophobe - although I always wondered how much of that homophobia was classic - um - latency. Having said that, I remember reading somewhere that Axl Rose is planning to remove the song 'One In a Million' from future pressings of the 'G'n'R Lies' album, so maybe these things *do* happen, and there is hope... peace & love phil Phil Gerrard Senior Admissions Officer The External Programme University of London E-mail: p.gerrard@eisa.lon.ac.uk 'Phone: 020 7862 8369 Fax: 020 7862 8363 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:13:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Eminem in Lone Star Saloon On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > Quote of the day-- > > "I would like to see Eminem walk through a hard-core-leather bar in San > Francisco and see what happens to him" (Dave Mustaine of Megadeth) As if he hasn't already. I'm with Boy George on this one... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Drive ten thousand miles across America and you will know more about ::the country than all the institutes of sociology and political science ::put together. __Jean Baudrillard__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:28:48 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] semisonic on letterman (ns) I never know anymore if things are reruns, but Semisonic are on Late Night with David Letterman tonight. - --dana Megadeth, Puya Rock For AIDS In New York Sep 2, 1999, 12:20 pm PT The T.J. Martell foundation has done so much good and hosted so many prestigious events in its battle against pediatric AIDS, many forget that Martell himself is an old school metalhead. Behind The Music addicts will recall that Martell was in the record label meeting with Ozzy Osbourne when he came up with the bright idea of biting the head off of a bat in a room full of suited execs. The T.J. Martell Foundation joined forces with Concrete Marketing, the stalwart hard rock promotion company celebrating its 15th anniversary, with a star-studded benefit concert at the Roseland Ballroom in New York on Wednesday (Sept. 1). On hand for the sold-out show were DDT, Full Devil Jacket, Puya, Type O Negative, and headliners Megadeth. Popular Black Sabbath cover band Sabbra Cadabra was also present for a post-show jam to promote Concrete's forthcoming Nativity In Black II, the sequel to the popular Sabbath tribute album. DDT kicked the evening off with a short set (about twenty minutes) that was tight, hard, and extremely loud. The crowd had high expectations for Full Devil Jacket, who have been building a fast buzz since appearing on the Emerging Artists stage at Woodstock '99. They were not disappointed. An already riled crowd barely had a moment to talk amongst themselves before Puya took to the stage with a crunch of guitars, drums, and extremely loud singing. Unlike many of the other acts, the band gave as much attention to the cause as they did the music. Although he didn't make any speeches, singer Sergio Curbelo repeatedly urged the audience to "fight AIDS." Puya's latin-influenced metal sound had the crowd on their feet and in the pit for the duration of their set. Backstage, Type O Negative drummer Johnny Kelly was thankful that there was no violence in the audience. "Back in my day, it used to be a few very severe shows, shows where something went wrong, and you would hear there was a riot. Nowadays kids go to Dave Matthews concerts, start a riot and some fires, then it's like 'see you for lunch tomorrow?'" Kelly was enthusiastic about the show, saying he was happy to play for no money because "it's a great cause, plus it'll be great to see (former touring mates) Megadeth again." Type O and Megadeth were the night's star attractions. Type O, whose album World Coming Down hits stores Sept. 21, played a short but rocking set. Crowd pleaser "Black No. 1" evolved into a jam session which included a snippet of the Beatles' "Back In The U.S.S.R." Megadeth was the only act to have a full-length set, which consisted of over an hour of hits and favorites. In keeping with the evening's spirit of saluting Black Sabbath, the band took to the stage to the opening strains of "Black Sabbath," from Sabbath's 1970 self-titled debut album. Dave Mustaine and Co. peppered their set with fan favorites spanning their 17-year career. All the hits were represented, including 1997's "Trust" and a powerful rendition of 1986's "Peace Sells." Sabbra Cadabra was joined by Iron Maiden frontman Bruce Dickinson, who led them in "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath." The rest of the set was a mix of Sabbath tunes that capped off an evening of charitable, loud entertainment. - -- Matt Sager ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:48:14 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) It might (but probably not) be worth mention that what bugs me about _E.T._ is not so much what bugs me about most current hwood flicks ("character and story* take a back seat to special effects, star charisma and merchandising tie-ins," say it 400 times fast) No, what bugs me about _E.T._ is how virulently manipulative of its audience it is. I found its rabid technophobia a little hard to swallow back then, too, but I expect that'd go down easier these days. On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Dan McCarthy wrote: > At 09:52 PM 4/8/01 -0700, \(The Arch-Villain\) West wrote: > > >The Iron Giant This was just really, really good. It. was. much. bet. ter. than. E. T. I'm. going. to. see. it. again. and. again. - -- d. * "theme!?" what's a "theme!?" get the second assistant themist on the line, we'll do lunch! what?! he's one of the **writers/!**...oh, well, never mind... - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.shoddyworkmanship.net -- post punk skronk rawk = the new thing - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = rock music ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:04:31 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) Doug wrote: > No, what bugs me about _E.T._ is how virulently manipulative of its > audience it is. I found its rabid technophobia a little hard to > swallow back then, too, but I expect that'd go down easier these days. I'm afraid that IMHO Spielberg's career has been heading steadily downhill ever since 'Duel', although come to think of it one could even read a degree of technophobia into that movie. It's interesting that Spielberg and his pal George Lucas, whose films more than any others have led to the dominance of special effects and marketing over any other aspect of film-making, should simultaneously attempt to impose on their audience a kind of wishy-washy, anti-rational, sentimental 'spirituality' in almost every movie they now make. Guilty consicence, perhaps? On a related note, has anybody else seen any advance word on Spielberg's 'AI', the project he took over after the death of Stanley Kubrick... this stuff about the story focussing on a young boy and his robotic teddy bear...? I *had* thought that maybe in deference/tribute to Kubrick, Spielberg might be able to rein in his more manipulative and sentimental instincts, but this plot point alone fills me with dread. peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:05:34 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] one more on the smiffs somebody over on the mark eitzel list dug up a list of the man's "records that changed his life" from some melody maker or some such. >> 5 The Smiths..There's a light that never goes out. "he's transcending something, I don't know what..." << heh. - -- d. - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.shoddyworkmanship.net -- post punk skronk rawk = the new thing - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = rock music ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:41:56 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) >I'm afraid that IMHO Spielberg's career has been heading steadily >downhill ever since 'Duel', although come to think of it one could >even read a degree of technophobia into that movie. I enjoyed DUEL and also Spielberg's first theatrical feature, THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS--the only film of his I've seen sporting an adult sensibility. I'm not sure where technophobia fits into E.T., though; can someone expound? As if the whole thing weren't a shameless ripoff of MAC AND ME... Andy "Perhaps most revealing--literally--on Lang's list of favorites, however, are the 'sensational' birthday celebrations arranged by his third wife, Jenifer. 'A few years ago, she cooked a great dinner, which was accompanied by a magnum of Chateau Cheval Blanc, vintage of my birthday. But before this, she stylishly walked down the steps of our duplex completely nude,' Lang recalls. 'It took me a few moments to realize she was illustrating Marcel Duchamp's Nude Walking Down the Stairs painting,' he says, adding that Duchamp lived next door and that the painting had graced the walls of Lang's apartment." - --from an article in "Tycoon" magazine (courtesy Tim Walters) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:55:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jer Fairall Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: Eminem in Lone Star Saloon > the idea of Mustaine as some kind of gay rights > advocate is *really* weird. Maybe I've missed some > kind of Damascene conversion over the last few years, > but I was under the impression that Mustaine, like > many of his peers in the '80s metal scene, was > a major homophobe I don't really think that this is a very fair statement to make without actual proof of homophobic lyrics and/or statements from Mustaine. Yes, 80's metal was notorious for bullshit macho posturing (now most prominently found in most "gangsta" rap and "sports metal (the term coined by Brian Molko from Placebo for bands like Limp Bizkit, etc)) but this does not necessarily equal homophobia. Jer, who (in response to another thread) would take WILLY WONKA & THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY over ET and THE WIZARD OF OZ (and, for that matter, anything by Disney) anyday. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:15:39 -0400 From: Tim Victor Subject: [loud-fans] Unsolicited comments on old CDs The list of New Zealand artists at SmokeCDs included a face that's very familiar from local used CD bins. The striking picture on the cover of Julia Darling's "Figure 8" always caught my eye, but I knew nothing more about her. (Has she come up on this list at all? If so, I didn't catch it.) According to SmokeCDs, one of her songs is a hit on NZ Radio, and their blurb was "A meteoric career, a major new star." I was curious enough to grab a $5 copy this afternoon. First observation: It's produced by Tony Berg with heavy participation from Patrick Warren (lots of chamberlin, no optigan but lots of sample manipulation could have been) and guest spots from Jon Brion, T Bone Burnett, Benmont Tench, and Neilson Hubbard-sideman Clay Jones (nice guitar turn on the first track.) I'd have been inclined to think that it was my kind of record just from knowing who else was on it. Second observation: She has an interesting, slightly quirky voice that reminds me of a June Tabor or some other British Isles folkie type at times, or maybe something like Kate Bush with a different accent at others. On the first pass through the disc, it seemed like an odd mix with the Michael Penn/Aimee Mann-style pop-rock, a little off-kilter and un-hooky. But it was tremendously familiar and catchy as all get-out as soon as the CD player wrapped back to track 1. I don't think an album has ever grown on me this fast. It pains me a little to recommend another major-label artist, but I bought it used so at least the evil BMG didn't get my money directly. And I'll try to find a way to patronize Julia directly since you know she isn't getting anything from her label anyway. Also found on the same used rack was Scritti Politti's "Anomie & Bonhomie", which I also like a lot. I remember this being discussed on list when it was first out, but I was unprepared for just how much the first track, "Umm", sounds like it could have been a recent Loud Family song. And the punky "Here Comes July" sounds incredibly like RN/BSC-era Game Theory to me, eerily so--the title even sounds remarkably like it could have been a Game Theory allusion. Green and Scott have different kinds of voices and Scott doesn't do that lush sixths-and-major-sevenths harmony thing, but they sing in the same register and they seem to have very similar senses for melodies and word choices. I was really wowed to hear just how much they have in common. I could easily hear Scott singing both of those songs, and parts of the others as well. Still catching up with 1999, Tim Victor TimVictor@csi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:03:58 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: Eminem in Lone Star Saloon In a message dated 4/9/01 1:07:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, j_fairall@yahoo.com writes: > > the idea of Mustaine as some kind of gay rights > > advocate is *really* weird. Maybe I've missed some > > kind of Damascene conversion over the last few > years, > but I was under the impression that Mustaine, > like > many of his peers in the '80s metal scene, > was > > a major homophobe > > I don't really think that this is a very fair > statement to make without actual proof of homophobic > lyrics and/or statements from Mustaine. Yes, 80's > metal was notorious for bullshit macho posturing (now > most prominently found in most "gangsta" rap and > "sports metal (the term coined by Brian Molko from > Placebo for bands like Limp Bizkit, etc)) but this > does not necessarily equal homophobia. > I agree, both with Jer and Mustaine's comment. If anything Mustaine's comment is anti homophobia, as Eminem would get his butt kicked in a leather bar, those guys don't fool around with people like him. I don't know if Mustaine is gay, and he's just starting to come out or what, but this is a startling statement from someone who I never would have guessed would make one. In fact I'd love to see what would happen if Fred Durst from Limp Bizkut tried that. Bloody mess! Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:21:01 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: Eminem in Lone Star Saloon Me, then Jer - > > the idea of Mustaine as some kind of gay rights > > advocate is *really* weird. Maybe I've missed some > > kind of Damascene conversion over the last few > years, > but I was under the impression that Mustaine, > like > many of his peers in the '80s metal scene, > was > > a major homophobe > > I don't really think that this is a very fair > statement to make without actual proof of homophobic > lyrics and/or statements from Mustaine. Yes, 80's > metal was notorious for bullshit macho posturing (now > most prominently found in most "gangsta" rap and > "sports metal (the term coined by Brian Molko from > Placebo for bands like Limp Bizkit, etc)) but this > does not necessarily equal homophobia. Please note that I did day I was 'under the impression' that Mustaine was a homophobe. That impression was based on a comment he'd made about the producer Desmond Child, who'd produced a Megadeth single and with whom Mustaine had had some problems - Mustaine said that his name should be ''Does men' Child', which struck me as pretty badly *off* (ie, Child is a worthless person, therefore he 'does men'). OK, this could have been a one-off faux pas, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I hope you can understand why I had the impression of Mustaine that I did... peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:22:02 -0400 From: 8204cmitc@umbsky.cc.umb.edu Subject: [loud-fans] Icehouse (the band....never heard of the beer) Another lurker chiming in for another presumably dead topic. The "Na na na na" song mentioned earlier was "No Promises" from the _Measure For Measure_ record, which came before Man Of Colours. And according to Billboard, "Electric Blue" was the bigger hit", hitting top 10. "Crazy" hit top 20 before that. If I've heard the early 80s Icehouse records, I certainly don't remember them, but I have heard slight hints of David Bowie in the later 80s records, especially in the vocals. (Mostly the album tracks, I thought "Lucky Me" from _Measure For Measure_ was a misplaced Bowie track.) Has Icehouse released anything since Great Southern Land (I believe that was the last one released in the US)? Injecting discussion with bullshit chart trivia, Phil F. NP... the sound of a couple dozen people hammering away at their keyboards ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:29:24 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Unsolicited comments on old CDs Tim Victor recommends: > Julia Darling's "Figure 8" I'm fond of this album, too, especially "Bulletproof Belief", which to me is worth at least $5 all by itself. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:57:54 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Icehouse (the band....never heard of the beer) In a message dated 4/9/01 11:28:57 AM, 8204cmitc@umbsky.cc.umb.edu writes: << Has Icehouse released anything since Great Southern Land (I believe that was the last one released in the US)? >> I'm the owner of an Icehouse box set--and, boy, did that purchase cause much laughter behind the counter at my local record store. Icehouse is still a big deal in their homeland, and Davies seems to have just recently made the transition into solo artist. (He was commissioned to compose the country's big Millennium piece, probably just beating out Colin Hay.) There's a lot of '90s product to be found. The Berlin Tapes is a particularly good covers album, if only for what Davies does with an early Cure song. That said, the artists he covers only confirms what people always hated most about Icehouse--although some of us could always forgive him for being derivative of good stuff. I've also always liked that the international success of "Electric Blue"--and, to a lesser extent, a Parachute Club single--means that John Oates technically had more solo success than Darryl Hall. Still, this thread has surprised me with how completely Icehouse seems to be forgotten. Somebody needs to cover "We Can Get Together" at Poptopia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:10:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: Eminem in Lone Star Saloon On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 AWeiss4338@aol.com wrote: > I don't know if Mustaine is gay, and he's just starting to come out or > what, but this is a startling statement from someone who I never would > have guessed would make one. ugh. more likely, he thinks gay men in leather are all sadists and would torture Eminem. you know, like in Pulp Fiction. my experience is that macho homophobes love talking about other people getting raped by gay men. strange -- and tedious -- but true. everyone should hear "Hats Off To Halford" by Atom And His Package, written on the occasion of Rob Halford coming out. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 12:27:37 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] Soft Boys in SF A few people have e-mailed me asking about the Soft Boys show last Saturday, so at the risk of alienating the 200+ people who *didn't* ask me about it, I've decided to post a review to loud-fans. In three words, it rocked profoundly..so much so that I'm at a loss for adverbs! The Fillmore was packed with "aging hipsters" (to paraphrase Matt Weber) who seemed to know all the words to all the songs, so it was like being transmitted to a parallel universe where the Soft Boys were bigger than the Beatles. Actually, it reminded me quite a bit of the 1994 Big Star reunion gig at the Fillmore in 1994. It's surprising that Robyn Hitchcock draws ten times as many people billed as the Soft Boys than he does billed as himself..the twenty year nostalgia cycle at work? I'd been checking the setlists and tour diaries on the internet via underwatermoonlight.com and the fegmaniax list archives (which just like loud-fans, is sometimes on-topic), so I wasn't that surprised by the selections: most everything off UM plus a few earlier songs and RH solo songs, and a few covers like "Bells of Rhymney", "Train Comin' Round The Bend", and a spaced-out "Astronomy Domine" (courtesy of guest Thomas Dolby). Apparently this show was recorded for a possible LIVE AT THE FILLMORE album, which should be really cool when it comes out. The Young Fresh Fellows opened, and also rocked, seeming to be having a grand time touring with the Soft Boys. They played most of their MEN WHO LOVED MUSIC album plus chestnuts like "Taco Wagon" and "Picture Book" (which McCaughey identified as a Kinks song, after growing tired of people like Darius Hootie Rucker crediting the song to him). Kimberley Rew joined them to sing one of his songs with "sunshine" in the title (not THAT song Something from his recent solo album), and they also brought Flamin' Groovie Roy Loney onstage to sing "Teenage Head", which was worth my price of admission all by itself! It was kind of weird though, because I was going completely apeshit and singing along to "Teenage Head", everyone around me seemed to be wondering "what's that old dude doing onstage with the Young Fresh Fellows". Roy L. still has his moves though, and if anyone in the Seattle area is looking for something to do this weekend, the Young Fresh Fellows and Roy Loney and the Longshots (a.k.a. 3/4ths of YFF) will be rocking the Crocodile Cafe this Saturday, April 14th. This was the third of my three big shows for me last week (GBV in Santa Cruz on Wednesday.. Jonathan Richman in Berkeley on Friday), and even though those two were pretty good, the Soft Boys was the top one for me, probably my show of the year/century. I'd tell everyone to check them out, but this was the second-to-last show on their US tour, so you're out of luck unless you live in LA or the UK, in which case you definitely should check them out. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:22:27 -0400 From: Tim Victor Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Unsolicited comments on old CDs On Monday, April 09, glenn mcdonald wrote: > Tim Victor recommends: >> Julia Darling's "Figure 8" > > I'm fond of this album, too, I thought of you when I heard it, glenn. Seemed like it might be along your lines. > especially "Bulletproof Belief", which to me is > worth at least $5 all by itself. That's the song that NZ Radio has picked up, according to SmokeCDs, and there's also a streaming video for it on juliadarling.com. And the track with the Jon Brion guest appearance. The song that's got my ear at the moment is the charming little "My Inanimate Friend". Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:42:36 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) At 04:04 PM 4/9/01 +0100, Phil Gerrard wrote: >Doug wrote: > > > No, what bugs me about _E.T._ is how virulently manipulative of its > > audience it is. I found its rabid technophobia a little hard to > > swallow back then, too, but I expect that'd go down easier these days. > >I'm afraid that IMHO Spielberg's career has been heading steadily >downhill ever since 'Duel', although come to think of it one could >even read a degree of technophobia into that movie. What about "Jaws"? To me it's probably his masterwork. Sad that that was over twenty years ago. >On a related note, has anybody else seen any advance word on >Spielberg's 'AI', the project he took over after the death of Stanley >Kubrick... this stuff about the story focussing on a young boy and >his robotic teddy bear...? I *had* thought that maybe in >deference/tribute to Kubrick, Spielberg might be able to rein in his >more manipulative and sentimental instincts, but this plot point >alone fills me with dread. What fills me with dread is that this is a project that Kubrick had close to his heart for YEARS... he deferred its production because special effects just weren't where they had to be in order to present the story the way he wanted it presented. Now- now that SFX have caught up- Kubrick is dead and his vision will go unfulfilled. The final insult is that the film poster says "A Steven Spielberg Film"... Kubrick's probably rolling in his grave. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:56:42 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) At 04:42 PM 4/9/01 -0400, Dan McCarthy wrote: >What about "Jaws"? To me it's probably his masterwork. Sad that that was >over twenty years ago. About 25, actually--I was taken to see it on my twelfth birthday (clever loudfans can abstract my advanced age...have I said too much?). I was totally geeked. I want to add a huzzah! to Steve H's review of the Soft Boys show. It's been a long time since a live performance satisfied me so completely. "Mr. Kennedy" and "Only the Stones Remain", in particular, had me grinning from ear to ear. Best twenty-some dollars I've spent all year so far. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley I think that it is high time that you all start looking at yourselves, and judging the lie that you live in...you can project it back at me...but I am only what lives inside each and every one of you...I am a reflection of you. Charles Manson, courtroom testimony quoted in Vincent Bugliosi, _Helter Skelter_ [1975] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:12:44 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) At 04:42 PM 4/9/01 -0400, Dan McCarthy wrote about AI: >What fills me with dread is that this is a project that Kubrick had close >to his heart for YEARS... he deferred its production because special >effects just weren't where they had to be in order to present the story the >way he wanted it presented. Now- now that SFX have caught up- Kubrick is >dead and his vision will go unfulfilled. The final insult is that the film >poster says "A Steven Spielberg Film"... Kubrick's probably rolling in his >grave. At the risk of pissing off Kubrick fans (and I *like* Kubrick--a framed copy for the poster of LOLITA, which I think is one of the greatest book-into-film translations of all time, is on the wall directly behind me), my first thought upon learning that Spielberg had picked up AI was "who else?" Spielberg and Kubrick have both been charged--and I think rightly, in some cases--with being more interested in filmmaking than in films. There are times when this works--much of what I love about LOLITA is the way Kubrick incorporated so many this-is-a-movie in-jokes, and DUEL isn't about a killer truck so much as it's about how movies can be an almost purely visual medium, with very little dialogue and very few characters--and there are times when it doesn't. (BARRY LYNDON looked gorgeous, but it was boring as hell.) I can understand how one might like one director and not the other, but I think Spielberg and Kubrick really have fairly similar artistic visions. (That said, having hardly any interest in science fiction, I can't see myself watching AI no matter who directs it, so I'm probably not the one to say.) Now, the summer film that's really chapping *my* ass is the adaptation of Donald Westlake's WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN starring Martin Lawrence. I'm thinking my fellow Westlake fan Rick Gagnon will back me up when I say, "Martin Lawrence as John Dortmunder? No fucking way." Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:57:01 +0800 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) At 3:12 PM -0600 4/9/01, Stewart Mason wrote: >Now, the summer film that's really chapping *my* ass is the adaptation of >Donald Westlake's WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN starring Martin >Lawrence. I'm thinking my fellow Westlake fan Rick Gagnon will back me up >when I say, "Martin Lawrence as John Dortmunder? No fucking way." I'm not Rick, but: the HELL? Perhaps one of the several existing but obscure film adaptations from this excellent series would have been at least successful enough to be issued on VHS if anyone could figure out that the main character's being a vaguely depressive, slope-shouldered loser is essential to the story's humor. Last one I saw was "The Hot Rock," which starred Robert Redford. I didn't think anyone could do worse than that. I was wrong. Come to think of it, I thought that Martin Lawrence's last summer movie, the name of which escapes me (but he was a burglar trying to retrieve a stolen diamond), borrowed several plot elements from the Dortmunder series. I guess borrowing the whole thing was the obvious next step... - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:17:54 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) At 02:57 PM 4/9/01 +0800, Elizabeth Setler wrote: >At 3:12 PM -0600 4/9/01, Stewart Mason wrote: >>Now, the summer film that's really chapping *my* ass is the adaptation of >>Donald Westlake's WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN starring Martin >>Lawrence. I'm thinking my fellow Westlake fan Rick Gagnon will back me up >>when I say, "Martin Lawrence as John Dortmunder? No fucking way." > >I'm not Rick, but: the HELL? Perhaps one of the several existing but >obscure film adaptations from this excellent series would have been >at least successful enough to be issued on VHS if anyone could figure >out that the main character's being a vaguely depressive, >slope-shouldered loser is essential to the story's humor. Last one I >saw was "The Hot Rock," which starred Robert Redford. > >I didn't think anyone could do worse than that. > >I was wrong. Elizabeth is right, every single one of the previous films has gotten Dortmunder entirely wrong. (Actually, I haven't seen the German film based on BANK SHOT, which is so bizarre it just might work. I will give props to THE HOT ROCK, which is the least offensive of the lot, for casting George Segal as Kelp, which is dead nuts on.) Dortmunder is a schlub. He's actually a criminal genius, but he consistently has the worst luck in the world. (To give some insight, Dortmunder is a comic riff on Parker, the anti-hero from Westlake's series of crime novels written under the name Richard Stark. Mel Gibson's recent PAYBACK is a remake of a Lee Hunter movie based on the first Parker novel.) But to give the character any depth, the actor *has* to be able to put across the schlubbiness and still be viable as a criminal genius. I'm sitting here wracking my brain, and I can't think of anybody. *Maybe* Nicolas Cage, back when he was acting. Possibly Steve Buscemi, but he's too antic. The other thing is that WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN is, I'm pretty sure, the last of the Dortmunder novels, and I can't see an audience that hasn't read all the other books getting the same kick out of this one, which is an immensely satisfying conclusion to the series. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 17:11:38 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] query (ns) Hate to self-quote, but... >But to give the character any >depth, the actor *has* to be able to put across the schlubbiness and still >be viable as a criminal genius. I'm sitting here wracking my brain, and I >can't think of anybody. *Maybe* Nicolas Cage, back when he was acting. >Possibly Steve Buscemi, but he's too antic. It just came to me. Stanley Tucci. Stanley Tucci as Dortmunder, John Cusack as Kelp. *That* would be a Dortmunder movie. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:23:24 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] Kubrick/Westlake Stewart wrote: >my first thought upon learning that Spielberg had picked up AI was >"who else?" Oh, I thought the same at the time - I think I posted to the list to that effect - but my assumption was that Spielberg would put his undeniable technical gifts to the service of what would have been a distinctly Kubrick-style project, rather than turning one of Kubrick's pet projects into a typical Spielberg movie. *That's* my worry. I'm unsure about this kind of homage in some respects, but it can work - it's late here, I'm tired, and I can't remember the title of the movie, but Claude Chabrol reworked an incomplete project of Henri- Georges Clouzot's a few years back (and I would be the first to take offence under normal circumstances, since Clouzot is one of my favourite filmmakers) but the result, IMO, did no disservice to either director. I was hoping that Spielberg might do the same, but I'm now scared that he may have done anything but. Elizabeth wrote re Westlake adaptations: >Last one I saw was "The Hot Rock," which starred Robert Redford. > >I didn't think anyone could do worse than that. Actually, I didn't take too much offence at that movie, any more than I did at Altman's 'The Long Goodbye': the story and characters are recontextualised and, yes, to an extent, rewritten, but the movie itself is fun - and marks a blink'n'you'll miss it early appearance by Christopher Guest, Tapfans!. As a rule I don't think there's anything wrong with messing with your source material providing the end result is worthwhile on its own terms: c'mon, anybody care to argue that Shakespeare's 'Romeo and Juliet' is a travesty of Salernitano's version? (NB: I did hate 'Short Cuts' 'cause I thought it was a travesty of Raymond Carver's work, so maybe that's a double standard on my part.) However, another Martin Lawrence movie, no matter what the source, should be reason enough for protest in itself. peace & love phil ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #30 ******************************