From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #23 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 023 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Re: Tape Swap Review (Jason, Part 1) [Jason Long ] [loud-fans] Smiths ["Phil Gerrard" ] [loud-fans] tape giveaway [MarkWStaples@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Smiths [mbowen@samoyedsoft.com] [loud-fans] go go go go's (again) (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] [loud-fans] Smiths [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Rough Trade Shops: 25 Years (tracklisting) [Wes_Vokes@eFu] Re: [loud-fans] Memento ["Richard Blatherwick" ] Re: [loud-fans] Let's all go to New Zealand ["Richard Blatherwick" ] Re: [loud-fans] Let's all go to New Zealand [Michael Zwirn ] RE: [loud-fans] Memento [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] mcdonald-Miller natal day, hurray! ["Phil Gerrard" ] [loud-fans] tape giveaway [MarkWStaples@aol.com] [loud-fans] GBV [MarkWStaples@aol.com] [loud-fans] clientele (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Smiths [MarkWStaples@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Smiths [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Smiths [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Smiths ["glenn mcdonald" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 02:19:48 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Tape Swap Review (Jason, Part 1) [Second part now...] >"Listen To What She Says" -- Jules Shear > >Find of the tape part two. What's this from? Best song he's written since >"Whispering Your Name." This song is from _Healing Bones_, which is probably my favorite album of his. I'm not sure whether or not it's still in print, but it's worth tracking down (I imagine used copies probably turn up on eBay sometimes). There are a couple of other standout tracks on the album that are almost as good as this one (I don't have the CD nearby right now and I can't remember all of the titles, but "When You Finally Gonna Come Through" is one of them). >"Kiss Me on the Bus" -- The Replacements > >You know, maybe it's just me, but I don't like TIM as much as a lot of >people do. I think LET IT BE and PLEASED TO MEET ME are the masterpieces. >This is a terrific song, though. I also like _Let It Be_ more, but _Tim_ does contain three or four of my favorites. I almost put "Bastards of Young" on instead of this song, actually -- I like both about equally. >"A Cleaner Light" -- Kristen hersh > >Cool! At last a Kristen solo song that sounds kinda like old Throwing Muses! _Sky Motel_, the album this song is from, is the most Muses-like of her solo releases. Not all of the songs are as great as this one, but it does have a few more winners. Her new album is quite good as well and contains one of my favorite songs of the year so far ("Spain"). It's worth checking out as well. >So that's it! Thanks for such an entertaining tape, Jason! I'm glad you enjoyed it so much! Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 02:19:09 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Tape Swap Review (Jason, Part 1) [I tried to send this last night, but don't think it went through, as I didn't see it posted in the digest. Sorry if this ends up making it through twice. I'm also going to split it up into two parts this time -- I suspect it didn't make it through before because I exceeded the maximum character length (I think the default on smoe is 7000 characters).] Stewart wrote: >Jason's forthrightly-titled UNTITLED LOUD-FANS TAPE SWAP MIX BY JASE is one >of my all-time favorite tape swap receipts, and easily the one that spends >the most time in my car (which, Carolyn, is where your tapes are right now; >I know they came first, but Jason's is right here and I don't want to have >to put my shoes on and find my car keys). He's not trying to out-hip >anybody, there's no great theme, it's just a good solid unpretentious >collection of really great songs. I don't do well with titles (obviously!) or coming up with themes (low attention span?), so it pretty much comes down to the songs themselves. I'm just glad you enjoyed the tape as much as you did. >"Blood Keeper" -- Liz Phair / "Blood of Feeling" -- Barbara Manning > >Kicking off with a pair of tracks from the uneven label comp WHAT'S UP >MATADOR?, including the original recording of "Blood of Feeling," which I >like much more than the more sedate version that ended up on Barbara's 1212 >album. I can see why "Blood Keeper" didn't make either of Liz's first two >albums, because it's only half-great, but "I'm a wreck, I'm obsessed, I'm >insane/Isn't that what you want me to say?" is one of the all-time great >post-breakup lines. "Blood Keeper" is actually one of my favorite Liz Phair songs, although it's not really much like anything else she's done. The music during the verses has a slightly menacing feel to it and reminds me a little bit of both the Pixies and Nirvana's "Come As You Are." And it does have that great chorus line you quoted. >"Just Like Honey" -- The Jesus and Mary Chain > >It's funny how a record can rule your life when it comes out and then drop >off your radar almost entirely. When the "Be My Baby" drums started up, I >was immediately transported back to junior year, when PSYCHOCANDY, Lloyd >Cole's RATTLESNAKES and Prefab Sprout's TWO WHEELS GOOD were almost the >only albums I played. I probably hadn't heard this song for...geez, >certainly at least five years. I pulled it out when my friend Valerie was >over a few weeks ago because she saw the cover in my vinyl stacks and >neither of us had heard it in ages. We agreed that it sounded better in >high school, but memories of the increasingly crappy albums the Reids did >after this might have been coloring that. I'd been a few years without a copy of _Psychocandy_ when I found it used sometime last fall. I was rediscovering it at about the same time I made your swap tape and I didn't realize how much I'd missed it. My experience with the Jesus and Mary Chain seems to be the reverse of yours; I'd heard a couple of their later efforts first, so _Psychocandy_ was like a revelation. I never thought I could like an album of theirs so much, so it's not as hard for me to remain enthusiastic about it. >"The Official Ironman Rally Song" -- Guided By Voices > >Invariably, just when I'm about to write off Bob Pollard, he comes up with >a song like this, so I'm looking forward to the new one. I still say he >could use an editor. The new one is coming out today and I've been looking forward to it a lot. Pollard seems to be putting some effort into making their albums more consistent now, which is probably why I liked _Do the Collapse_ so much, even if its best tracks aren't as great as the highlights from their other albums. Now that I have a CD-R drive, I've been meaning to make a few discs of my favorites from each album, leaving off all the not-so-great stuff. I'd probably listen to them about twice as much as I do already. >"Everything" -- Jen Trynin > >Whatever happened to Jen Trynon, anyway? I heard she went back to school, >but that was a few years ago. I'm not all that sure about what she's up to, but she does have a new Web site under development at [http://www.jentrynin.com], which used to lead to her old Warners site. >"Turnaround" -- Jules Verdone > >Great song, and she's a nice person, too. Do you know what she's up to these days? I can't seem to find any information on her. I really liked _Diary of a Liar_ and thought this compilation track was an indicator of great things to come. I haven't come across anything new by her since, though. >"Another Pearl" -- Badly Drawn Boy > >Eh. In retrospect, if I were to re-make the tape now, I'd probably leave this song off. At the time, though, I had just bought _The Hour of Bewilderbeast_ and was really getting into it, and this song in particular. While I still like almost all of the album's other songs, this one doesn't do much for me anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 02:24:31 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: [loud-fans] Oops... Sorry about reposting all of that before... I just looked at the digest number and realized somehow that the one before it didn't get to me. When I went to the archives on smoe's site, I checked and saw it did go through before after all. Sorry for the bandwidth waste, both then and now. Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:25:02 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] Smiths Stewart, then Jeff: > > I've always found it a good rule of thumb to steer well clear of > > anyone over the age of about 16 who takes the Smiths seriously. > > Depends on how you define "seriously": I'd agree if you mean "regards > all that depressive stuff as deep, meaningful reflection of one man's > inner angst and whatnot." But the main reason that view fails is it > utterly misses the fact that a lot of Morrissey's lyrics are downright > hilarious, and not accidentally so. You see, this is where I get uncomfortable: doesn't a lot of Morrisey's humour imply a slight sneer at those people who *do* read the angsty stuff as deep and meaningful? It's something I've never quite figured out, and I squirm at the idea that the guy might consciously be denigrating a lot of his own fanbase. I admit I could be completely wrong about this, and I'm willing to hear any arguments to the contrary... > And none of that has anything to say about the music itself - which, > at least up through _The Queen Is Dead_, is wonderful about 3/4 of the > time. Oh, agreed. Just last night I watched a video of the first time that the Smiths played 'Bigmouth Strikes Again' on TV, a couple of weeks before the album came out, and was reminded that they really were an extraordinarily creative and charismatic band at that time. Just how special they were in the '80s became clearer than ever to me: sometimes star quality looks more and more obvious in retrospect! And, to be honest, I did crack several smiles at Morrisey's petulant, snide performance and found myself thinking 'how on earth could anybody have taken these lyrics at face value?'... peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:13:55 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] tape giveaway I picked-up an extra copy of a cut-out VHS tape called I WANT MY MTV...has lots of MTV's promos back in the days before it blew chunkies and was actually a cultural force for change...Dennis Leary wanting to change HOUSE OF STYLE to HOUSE OF CINDY, Randee of the Redwoods, Jimmie the Cab Driver (the guy with Ethan Hawke hair) the original JOE'S APARTMENT short, and of course, the early bits with the Police screaming "I want my MTV" and Billy Idol saying "Too much is never enough." First asked, gets. M "MTV, not bullets" (chapter title from Douglas Coupland's GENERATION X) np The Harvest Ministers LITTLE DARK MANSION ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 2001 10:40:00 -0700 From: mbowen@samoyedsoft.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smiths Stewart Mason wrote: > > > I've always found it a good rule of thumb to steer well clear of > > > anyone over the age of about 16 who takes the Smiths seriously. I feel the same way about anyone over the age of 25 who quotes Nietzsche or proselytizes marijuana. BTW, I picked up the new CD by the Old 97s yesterday along with the new GbV, and I'm digging it. They have a really good rhythm section, and while the album could be trimmed by two or three songs, it has a nice, rowdy, 'Mats-like feel to it. MB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:44:55 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] go go go go's (again) (ns) Mark (in particular) and everyone else: Just a reminder that the Go Go's are on Drew Carey tonight. - --dana np: T-Rex/Tanx (I was under the mistaken impression that The Slider was his last good album. Thank goodness for car ads that inspire CD purchases.) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:58:54 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Smiths I feel the same way about anyone over the age of 25 who quotes Nietzsche or proselytizes marijuana. >>>>>>>> I used to proselytize marijuana, but it works better if you smoke it. - --dana (well, we haven't had any pothead humor here in a while) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:04:50 -0500 From: Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rough Trade Shops: 25 Years (tracklisting) I don't know much about the Chicago stores, but to answer your last question: NO! Milwaukee is a pathetic place to shop for music! Atomic is a half-decent indie store, then we have the small chain Exclusive Company that only has low prices to reccomend it... A few used shops (But most of them are stocked mainly with 25 copies of Aerosmith's "Permanent Vacation" and such like)... And that's all, folks! PS: Record shopping in Chicago- I was disappointed to find that not only are Quaker Goes Deaf and Raw Records (in Evanston) now gone, but so is the Reckless in Evanston, and 2nd Hand Tunes there moved their vinyl in with the CD section and is now not even half as interesting to shop at as it used to be. Has anything good opened in place of those stores that I should check into the next time I'm out that way? And is there anything else in Milwaukee besides Atomic that's worth a look? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:22:01 +0100 From: "Richard Blatherwick" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Memento >From: Dan McCarthy >I haven't seen it yet, but plan to. Still, my cynic's knee-jerk reaction >is that the gimmick has been done before. Must we be forced to remember >the Seinfeld episode whose scenes all ran in reverse order? Or the episode of Red Dwarf called Backwards- did that make it across the pond? >While we're on the subject of movies that demand nonformulaic storytelling, >Stephen Soderbergh's "Schizopolis" is extremely unorthodox in its narrative >methods, and I have a feeling that loudfans will find it right up their >alley since it contains just the sort of thing that Scott Miller's great >at- namely, obscure subreferencing and the use of story fragments to flesh >out a greater 'whole'. > >Dan And, perhaps not strangely, one of my favourite films of a couple of years ago, that everyone else I know either couldn't be bothered to go to see, or saw it and couldn't see what i saw in it. Richard _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:48:35 +0100 From: "Richard Blatherwick" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Let's all go to New Zealand Needless to say that there was nothing like this on during the 5 months I spent over there last year. I missed Yo La Tengo because I was out of Auckland then, and most of the other bands were homegrown MTV fodder. Richard >From: steve >To: Loud-Fans >Subject: [loud-fans] Let's all go to New Zealand >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:19:53 -0500 > >http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=180749&thesection=entertainment& >thesubsection=music > >- Steve > >__________ >Is this thing on? >Sent via OS X Mail. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:59:51 +0100 From: "Richard Blatherwick" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] isolation drills (ns) I have to admit that in the few weeks since reading the Mojo piece I've picked up CD copies of three of the albums I originally had on vinyl and I'm still rather stunned by the tunesmithery of Johnny Marr, and if you take Morrissey with a huge pinch of salt is much less irritating. The only disappointing aspect is that I haven't particularly enjoyed anything that either has done post-Smiths, apart from the tracks that JM did with Billy Bragg on Don't Try This At Home (I think). Richard >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >To: "I've never had salt flats for breakfast before..." > >Subject: Re: [loud-fans] isolation drills (ns) >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:18:03 -0500 (CDT) > >On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > > > I've always found it a good rule of thumb to steer well clear of anyone > > over the age of about 16 who takes the Smiths seriously. > >Depends on how you define "seriously": I'd agree if you mean "regards all >that depressive stuff as deep, meaningful reflection of one man's inner >angst and whatnot." But the main reason that view fails is it utterly >misses the fact that a lot of Morrissey's lyrics are downright hilarious, >and not accidentally so. > >And none of that has anything to say about the music itself - which, at >least up through _The Queen Is Dead_, is wonderful about 3/4 of the time. > >So it could be that, should Stewart ever drive in Milwaukee, he'll need to >avoid any streets I might be on. > >--Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > >J e f f r e y N o r m a n >The Architectural Dance Society >www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html >::"In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - >:: this is nothing new," said the priest. > >np: Guided by Voices _Isolation Drills_ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:18:43 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Memento Richard Blatherwick wrote: > >I haven't seen it yet, but plan to. Still, my cynic's knee-jerk reaction > >is that the gimmick has been done before. Must we be forced to remember > >the Seinfeld episode whose scenes all ran in reverse order? > > Or the episode of Red Dwarf called Backwards- did that make it across the > pond? When I heard about the movie, I thought about the Red Dwarf "Backwards" episode, where the crew landed on earth in a distant future after the universe had stopped expanding and started contracting, with time running in reverse. Unlike the Seinfeld episode (the one with the wedding?), where they just ran the scenes in reverse order, the Red Dwarf episode was *entirely* backwards, where everyone except the RD crew members did everything in reverse, including "siht ekil gniklat". At the risk of being kicked off loud-fans for being on-topic, I should mention that Scott (Scott *Miller*, the nominal "subject of this list") is a fan of Red Dwarf and discussed the show in a previous "Ask Scott". And he's celebrating his 41st birthday today, so Happy Birthday to Scott! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Zwirn Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Let's all go to New Zealand On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Richard Blatherwick wrote: > Needless to say that there was nothing like this on during the 5 months I > spent over there last year. I missed Yo La Tengo because I was out of > Auckland then, and most of the other bands were homegrown MTV fodder. As some of you know, I lived in NZ for six months in 1994, and did see the 3Ds and the Bats then. I do recall the 3Ds "Sing-Song" quite vividly, and the way they ended their set by laying their electric guitars next to the monitors, creating an unending wave of feedback that went on for a good twenty minutes before the sound guy mercifully shut everything off. Michael - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Zwirn mzwirn01@tufts.edu ICQ #12755821 Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University, Medford MA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:49:37 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] go go go go's (again) (ns) In a message dated 4/4/01 1:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << Just a reminder that the Go Go's are on Drew Carey tonight. --dana >> Is it the rerun where they are in his dream at the beginning of the episode? I tried to tape that and it didn't come out, so maybe this is a second chance. - -Mark, who has been told he looks like Drew Cary when he wears his glasses ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:59:02 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] go go go go's (again) (ns) Here's what I know: ABC, The Drew Carey Show: The Go-Go's try to cheer up Drew. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:21:30 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] go go go go's (again) (ns) Thankyou for the info, Dana! M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:38:18 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: [loud-fans] mcdonald-Miller natal day, hurray! A shout out to the two birthday boys! Clams on the half-shell, and roller skates, Andy "The shortage of affordable housing in New York City has often forced people to accept living quarters far short of ideal. But the house at 75 = Bedford Street in Greenwich Village, really takes the cake: it's 9 = feet wide. The dimensions may have created some problems, but at least it hasn't induced narrow-mindedness. Residents have included poet Edna St. Vincent Millay and actor John Barrymore." - --from THE BOOK OF NEW YORK FIRSTS ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 2001 14:03:25 -0700 From: mbowen@samoyedsoft.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] mcdonald-Miller natal day, hurray! On Wed, 04 April 2001, "Andrew Hamlin" wrote: > > A shout out to the two birthday boys! > > Clams on the half-shell, and roller skates, > > Andy I second the motion; all those in favor say "aye". Michael Bowen, who shares a birthday with Grover Cleveland, Peter Graves, Wilson Pickett, James McMurtry, and Queen Latifah, thereby proving astrology. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:14:07 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Memento >From Richard Blatherwisk: >>From: Dan McCarthy >>I haven't seen it yet, but plan to. Still, my cynic's knee-jerk reaction >>is that the gimmick has been done before. Must we be forced to remember >>the Seinfeld episode whose scenes all ran in reverse order? >Or the episode of Red Dwarf called Backwards- did that make it across the >pond? Of course, Harold Pinter's "Betrayal" was maybe the first major work that used this technique (I think that this was written before the Red Dwarf episode in question, and It was written before Seinfeld was even a success as a stand-up). Far from being a gimmick, it is simply a different story-telling structure, albeit an underused one, as the Hollywood movie system frowns on narratives that are more complex than "lovable loser re-invents himself and gets the girl fifteen years too young for him" or "loser sports team gets coach and is inspired to win the season." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:45:42 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Memento At 11:14 AM 4/4/01 -1000, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > >Of course, Harold Pinter's "Betrayal" was maybe the first major work that >used this technique (I think that this was written before the Red Dwarf >episode in question, and It was written before Seinfeld was even a success >as a stand-up). George S. Kaufman and Moss Hart wrote a play called MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG in 1934 (Stephen Sondheim did a flop musical version around 1980) that's told backwards. BETRAYAL didn't come along until 1978. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:03:17 +0100 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] mcdonald-Miller natal day, hurray! Andy wrote: > A shout out to the two birthday boys! And yay to that - > The dimensions may have created some problems, but at least > it hasn't induced narrow-mindedness. Residents have included > poet Edna St. Vincent Millay and actor John Barrymore." 'The reason I like Edna St. Vincent Millay Is that her name Sounds like a basketball Falling downstairs. The reason I like Walt Whitman Is that his name Sounds like Edna St. Vincent Mallay Falling downstairs.' - - quoted in David Mamet, 'Squirrels' sorry - peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:17:03 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Memento In a message dated 4/4/01 3:17:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smholt@ix.netcom.com writes: > And he's celebrating his 41st birthday today, so Happy > Birthday to Scott! > > Happy B-day Scott! Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:28:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smiths On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Phil Gerrard wrote: > Stewart, then Jeff: > > > > I've always found it a good rule of thumb to steer well clear of > > > anyone over the age of about 16 who takes the Smiths seriously. > > > > Depends on how you define "seriously": I'd agree if you mean "regards > > all that depressive stuff as deep, meaningful reflection of one man's > > inner angst and whatnot." But the main reason that view fails is it > > utterly misses the fact that a lot of Morrissey's lyrics are downright > > hilarious, and not accidentally so. > > You see, this is where I get uncomfortable: doesn't a lot of > Morrisey's humour imply a slight sneer at those people who *do* > read the angsty stuff as deep and meaningful? To modify my remarks slightly, I think it's a "both/and" situation: while he sometimes is expressing the sort of frustration and angst awkward young people might feel, he's also doing so with a sense of humor - sometimes subtly, sometimes so overtly that one really does question the intelligence of anyone who misses it. But how *does* one deal with depression? Surely not by wallowing in it, at least not for long - far better to find a way to laugh at it, to find a perspective from which one can laugh at oneself. All that's a lot better than the condescension of "cheer up, li'l fellow - the sun'll come out tomorrow!" And part of it probably is lauging at the miserablism of some of his fans: the self-dramatizing types who draw dotted lines on their wrists with magic marker. And even if it's perhaps a bit cruel to laugh at others' misery, it's probably crueler to *only* endorse and validate it. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, who just listened to Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" - speaking of vicious, sheer *joy* in someone else's (presumably) deserved misery. J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Californians invented the concept of the life-style. ::This alone warrants their doom. __Don DeLillo, WHITE NOISE__ ps: I am referring above to garden-variety depression - *not* clinical "depression," whose sufferers are done a deep disservice by having their ailment given the same name. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:40:59 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] tape giveaway The tape is claimed. M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:47:35 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] GBV I listened to the new GBV at the record store, and, I must say, I like it. It sounds nothing like anything else I've heard from them. About as similar to VAMPIRE ON TITUS as the white album is to MEET THE BEATLES. If I were to do the Pepsi challenge and listen to this release next to say, DO THE COLLAPSE, I wouldn't guess it was the same band. M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:53:14 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] clientele (ns) A while back, the Clientele were coming up on list from time to time. In case anyone was curious, but didn't want to pay import prices, their debut album Suburban Light will be coming out in the US on Merge on April 24th. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:12:22 EDT From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smiths In a message dated 4/4/01 9:38:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: << To modify my remarks slightly, I think it's a "both/and" situation: while he sometimes is expressing the sort of frustration and angst awkward young people might feel, he's also doing so with a sense of humor - sometimes subtly, sometimes so overtly that one really does question the intelligence of anyone who misses it. >> Okay, I've been quiet until now about this thread, but, like Julia Sugarbaker would say on DESIGNING WOMEN: "All right. That's it." Morrissey was my age now (33) when he did YOUR ARSENAL, and the songs "Tomorrow" and "I Know it's Gonna Happen Someday" are full of sadness, anxiety and sexual frustration, just like Smiths material from 5 plus years earlier. I don't see Morrissey as doing songs like these with an overt sense of humor about them. Which ones in particular strike you this way? The overt songs to me are "Vicar in a Tutu" and "Some Girls are Bigger than Others," not "How Soon is Now?" and "There is a Light that Never Goes Out." I love the Smiths/Morrissey and have taken them/him seriously since I was a teenager, and, though I have matured (Scouts' honor), the music still speaks to me with as much passion and intensity as it did when I had pimples. There's a purity and openness about it that is timeless, regardless of where you are in your life span. It cuts through all the bullshit walls people typically throw up around themselves, and gets down to brass tacks for me. When people say, "Silly rabbit, the Smiths are for kids" I immediately get emotional...it angers me (apologies have already been made to Mr. Mason). Is it that it is all really just child's play, or has the person narcotized themselves to what is going on their heart? (sorry Stewart, don't wanna piss you off, I'm just saying). Have they hardened themselves? Or is it just me? Am I just a freakshow? (wait, don't answer that) I've been clocked with a reasonably bright IQ, so I don't think I'm dim. Naive and emotional yes, dim no. Along the same lines, if being "a man" means bullshit posturing, then thank God I'm the emotional little BOY that I am. And long live Moz. M p.s. As one who has been diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety disorder and clinical depression and has been medicated for it (more hyper-openness from the Markster), the magic marker bit kind of made the little hairs on my neck stand up, but it's all good. I love ya anyway. For me, the Smiths and Morrissey isn't about glamorizing depression, it's more of a cathartic device. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:38:11 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smiths At Thursday 4/5/2001 12:12 AM -0400, MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: >I don't see Morrissey as doing songs like these with an overt sense >of humor about them. Which ones in particular strike you this way? The >overt songs to me are "Vicar in a Tutu" and "Some Girls are Bigger than >Others," not "How Soon is Now?" and "There is a Light that Never Goes Out." Bwah Ha Ha!! You crack me up, Mark. For a minute there you had me going and I thought you really thought "There is a Light" is serious. Thanks for the laugh! Waiting for that 10-ton bus, cue the strings, Later. --Rog Roger Winston/Reign delle Rane "Not every candle burns" http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 00:37:10 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smiths MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > > people typically throw up around themselves i'm sorry, but this phrase struck me as funny. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:58:47 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Smiths > For a minute there you had me going and I thought you really > thought "There is a Light" is serious. Some maudlin exaggeration notwithstanding, I think "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out" *is* serious. Read it again. It's a very lonely, scared, alienated person trying to figure out whether this person to whom he's attached his hopes is going to be his salvation after all. The double-decker bus and the ten-ton truck are the *character*'s melodramatic flourishes. I agree that the Smiths wrote some laughable songs ("Meat Is Murder" being my own favorite example), and that Morrissey wrote more and more of them as he went on, but I turned 34 yesterday and I'm still perfectly willing to stick up for _Hatful of Hollow_ and _The World Won't Listen_. "How Soon Is Now?", in particular, is one of the only songs that has ever single-handedly, in one listen, permanently changed some fundamental piece of my worldview. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #23 ******************************