From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #6 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, March 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 006 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] This is nice. ["\(The Arch-Villain\) West" ] Re: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a plea ["Bo] RE: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a ple a ["K] Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [] [loud-fans] it's tha bomb! (swap review) [Steve Holtebeck ] Re: [loud-fans] Here Comes Everybody [Dan Schmidt Subject: [loud-fans] This is nice. Someone brought this to my attention; now it's your turn. Share and enjoy! West FRIENDSHIP WEEK If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following: there would be: 57 Asians 21 Europeans 14 from the western hemisphere, both north and south 8 Africans 52 would be female 48 would be male 70 would be nonwhite 30 would be white 70 would be non-Christian 30 would be Christian 89 would be heterosexual 11 would be homosexual 6 people would possess 59% of the entire world's wealth and all 6 be from the United States. 80 would live in substandard housing 70 would be unable to read 50 would suffer from malnutrition 1 would be near death 1 would be near birth 1 (yes, only 1) would have a college education 1 would own a computer When one considers our world from such a compressed perspective, the need for acceptance, understanding and education becomes glaringly apparent. The following is also something to ponder... If you woke up this morning with more health than illness...you are more blessed than the million who will not survive this week. If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation you are ahead of 500 million people in the world. If you can attend a church meeting without fear of harassment, arrest, torture, or death...you are more blessed than three billion People in the world. If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof over-head and a place to sleep... you are richer than 75% of this world. If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, and spare change in a dish someplace ... you are among the top 8% of the world's wealthy. If your parents are still alive and still married ... you are very rare. If you can read this message, you just received a double blessing in that someone was thinking of you, and furthermore, you are more blessed than over two billion people in the world that cannot read at all. Someone once said: what goes around comes around. Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. Live like it's heaven on earth. It's national friendship week. Send this to everyone you consider a friend. Pass this on, and brighten someone's day. Nothing will happen if you do not decide to pass it along. the only thing that will happen, if you do pass it on, is that someone might smile because of you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:21:44 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and aquestio n - OT how do you feel about owning a vinyl bootleg of otherwise unreleased songs? >>>>>>>>>> About the same as when I jaywalk. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:34:00 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a plea fo r help, and a question - OT Dana: > I pay for apartment insurance, which covers me in case > of theft. It costs about $250 a year, and one robbery will > convince a person that it's a good idea. Yes, this is true. My own experience was quite like Steve's, they got away with A-G and I found them all at a local store. They were completely unhelpful (in fact they were hostile) even though their copy of Lolita Nation was scuffed on the back in exactly the same way mine had been. They went out of business within a month. My insurance company gave me ten dollars per CD, but many of those CDs I have never been able to replace (including LN - I couldn't bring myself to buy it back from those guys). [incidentally, I now put a label with my name and address on the underside of the CD tray. I have this vision of buying a used CD at a similar store and then tearing the case apart at the counter with a self-righteous zeal] All told the claim was for about $5,000 (mostly camera stuff, but they mysteriously made off with the world's cheesiest guitar amp as well), which more than paid for the ten years I had this insurance without any incident. Not to be an industry apologist or anything. Russ {um, Silly Monograms, Or Else} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:07:32 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > I think music clubs pay a yearly ASCAP/BMI fee to take care of any and all > music played in the club, from CD changers to DJs. yes, it's a blanket fee. it's not entirely simple to figure out, since it's based on the number of 'performances' and the number of people who can theoretically listen to them. i think you can find forms on both the ascap & bmi sites, if you're curious. many clubs don't pay the fees, of course, and there's a whole truant office kinda thing that goes on to identify the infringers. > I can't believe we're dragging this out. Seems so petty & pointless. The > guy got ripped off, and people are helping him. I doubt he'll keep the > CD-Rs if & when he gets his collection back, so I think of it as a sort of > loan, and it *is* my right to lend something I own to someone. Y'all > should chill. i'd like to clarify my position a little bit -- someone asked what i thought was a legal question, and since i've been spending a lot of time & energy learning the legal answers, i tried to answer it from a legal perspective. as i said before, what is legal and what is moral do not necessarily coincide. nor do what is legal and what is practical necessarily coincide. i cited examples of my own which, by my standards, were infringing, but not immoral (that is not to claim these were the only infringing actions i've ever performed, either). i don't think it's hard to identify instances in which the current interpretation of copyright law leads to conclusions that are, in fact, impractical. incidentally, since we're already far far afield, a lot of my research has been in support of an article on DRM -- digital rights management -- which i'm working on. bad, bad juju. i urge everyone not to support, by buying them, consumer devices that have DRM features built into them which prevent fair use access, will only play 'signed' content and/or effectively prevent, by encryption, the eventual return of the content to the public domain. this includes digital video disc players, which i know is kind of tilting at windmills. but it's about to get much, much worse, if consumers don't kick up a sufficient fuss. - -- d. np beethoven string quartets - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:52:36 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a plea fo r help, and a question - OT Riding the subway to work today, it suddenly dawned on me that there are *some* similarities between the way the New York subway's Metro-Card system works and this music-copying thing that we're talking about. In NYC, you can buy a monthly pass that gives you unlimited access to the subway/bus system. When it first came out, a lot of enterprising folks realized that they could stand outside the subway system and swipe people through, charging a doller per trip (individual trips normally cost $1.50). Legal? No, because the purchase of a Metrocard gives you the right to use it for yourself, not for others, even though Metrocards aren't individually identifiable. By the same token (no pun intended), if you buy a one month pass and then lose it, you're out of luck. It's technically possible that all your friends could decide to swipe you in with their passes, until you could afford your own. A sweet gesture, but it's also illegal. Your rights to use the pass are contingent upon your posession of the pass. Compared with the above, the rights attending a CD purchase are downright benevolent. A CD doesn't expire (Metrocards expire every month i.e. you have to renew your license to use the transit system every month) and you get the right to make copies (you can't copy a Metrocard. If it's lost or stolen, there is no recourse. You can get a damaged one replaced). And yet, I've never heard anyone protest that the laws governing Metrocard use are unfair. Clearly people do break the law governing their use, but I've never heard anyone try to justify this by saying that what they're doing is legal. I am *not* saying that the two situations are identical, but there are some interesting similarities. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:45:16 EST From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Hope Sandoval Anyone get her new record, and if so, is it worth getting? - -Mark "If you look close, you can see my tits/cause I want you to but don't want you to know that I do" (Gilda Radner as Candy Slice spoofing Patti Smith) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hope Sandoval On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 MarkWStaples@aol.com wrote: > Anyone get her new record, and if so, is it worth getting? > -Mark Huh... I was just wondering what she was up to. That one slipped uner my radar. But Mazzy Star fans also might to check out the newest from Elysian FIelds, _Queen of the Meadow_ -- the departure of founder/pianist Ed Pastorini seems to mean the departure of the skronk/avant-jazz elements of the music, leaving the two bands virtually indistinguishable. - -- d. np more beethoven (stress aleviating music day) - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:11:18 -0600 (CST) From: "BotServerCentral-Sector:Mail a/k/a 2 Fs" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a plea On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Keegstra, Russell wrote: > [incidentally, I now put a label with my name and address > on the underside of the CD tray. I have this vision of buying > a used CD at a similar store and then tearing the case apart > at the counter with a self-righteous zeal] Alas, any dishonest dealer would merely junk the jewelbox - in fact, unless you put it on the disc itself, it's likely to simply be eliminated. You might try (and someone might advise me whether this would harm the disc) a permanent marker in the clear area just outside the center hole. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Any noise that is unrelenting eventually becomes music:: __Paula Carino__ np: Slowdive _Souvlaki_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:21:23 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a ple a Me/JeFF: >> [incidentally, I now put a label with my name and address >> on the underside of the CD tray. I have this vision of buying >> a used CD at a similar store and then tearing the case apart >> at the counter with a self-righteous zeal] > Alas, any dishonest dealer would merely junk the jewelbox - in fact, >unless you put it on the disc itself, it's likely to simply be eliminated. >You might try (and someone might advise me whether this would harm the >disc) a permanent marker in the clear area just outside the center hole. No, I mean *under* the CD tray where you won't see it unless you pull the tray out of the jewelcase itself. Of course, with the latest trend towards clear trays that wouldn't be effective... Hmm, the clear area should be safe, I would think, although not a whole lotta room. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, Mar 22 2001 9:45:29 GMT-0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT dmw on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:07:32 -0500 (EST) wrote: >incidentally, since we're already far far afield, a lot of my research has >been in support of an article on DRM -- digital rights management -- which >i'm working on. bad, bad juju. i urge everyone not to support, by buying >them, consumer devices that have DRM features built into them which >prevent fair use access, will only play 'signed' content and/or >effectively prevent, by encryption, the eventual return of the content to >the public domain. this includes digital video disc players, which i know >is kind of tilting at windmills. but it's about to get much, much worse, >if consumers don't kick up a sufficient fuss. I've got 4 DVD players of varying stripes, and I'm not returning any of them. Let me get this straight: You're rallying against CSS in a DVD player because it "prevents the eventual return of the content to the public domain"? That's a new one on me. I'm somewhat unsure of just how that works. After something enters the public domain, isn't it conceivable that someone will come up with some way of distributing it free of charge? I just don't see how you can get around the fact that studios and record labels are going to use any means necessary to protect their digital content. That said, please add DFAST, 5C, DVI and HDCP to your list of things to tilt against. There's a very good chance the HDTV set I bought over a year ago will not be able to show HDTV content in the near future because of these new schemes. Thanks. Later. --Rog Roger Winston/Reign delle Rane ``Not every candle burns'' http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:49:11 EST From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a plea In a message dated 3/22/01 8:25:22 AM, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: << Alas, any dishonest dealer would merely junk the jewelbox - in fact, unless you put it on the disc itself, it's likely to simply be eliminated. You might try (and someone might advise me whether this would harm the disc) a permanent marker in the clear area just outside the center hole. >> When I got my computer burner (very nice QPS), the online store I got it from also sent me a pack of 10 blank CDs (also by QPS). In THAT package was a permanent marker (a "Marks-a-Lot" "Dual Sharp"). I assumed that one could safely use it to write on the LINES provided on the label side of the CD (that appear to be for that exact purpose -- and are obviously well outside of any "clear area")_....and I've been doing that for a couple months. I've had no problems with any of the CDs that I've written on (data and music). Should I expect problems eventually? Left ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:24:26 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Robbed DJ (ns) BotServerCentral-Sector said: And the weirdest moment of the whole deal (well, maybe not...but theweirdest moment I'm pointing out): at one point, Dana made some statementlike "why should the record industry pay the bill when someone suffersfrom a crime?" The logic is, apparently, that if you once owned a CD, youare obligated, in perpetuity, to replace any broken, lost, stolen, ormalfunctioning versions of same, lest the record companies "lose" money onyour non-purchase. (Fernando will most likely replace those CDs - butwho's to say that one or two turned out to suck, and he never used those,and so will not replace the stolen copies?) >>>>>>>> Jeffrey, I didn't initially recognize you in your 'bot disguise, and I was going to let this go without comment. But you know better!! Obviously I wasn't saying that the DJ is obligated to repurchase the CDs. If he doesn't want them, he's absolutely free to go on with his life. But, if he wants the contents of those CDs, he's legally obligated to buy them again. In the case we're discussing, he has chosen to replace his stolen collection without paying for it, which lead me to say, "why should the record industry pay the bill when someone suffers from a crime?" - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:04:24 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Roger Winston wrote: > I've got 4 DVD players of varying stripes, and I'm not returning any of > them. Let me get this straight: You're rallying against CSS in a DVD > player because it "prevents the eventual return of the content to the > public domain"? That's a new one on me. I'm somewhat unsure of just > how that works. After something enters the public domain, isn't it > conceivable that someone will come up with some way of distributing it > free of charge? The DVD fight is already lost, unfortunately. I regard it as an unfortunate, and I hope anamolously successful, test case for what level of intrusiveness the consumer public will put up with in devices. > I just don't see how you can get around the fact that studios and record > labels are going to use any means necessary to protect their digital > content. As much as the content providers and hardware manufacturers would like to think they own and control you, they don't. Sony wanted everyone to be listening to DCCs -- that's digital compact cassette, a dismal failure -- and MiniDiscs, which do fine in Japan, but here in the US are, ironically, favored by live concert recorders more than anything else. Circuit City's DIVX program was a dismal failure. Yay. If people boycott CPRM, SDMI, etc. compliant devices, they will fail in the marketplace. > That said, please add DFAST, 5C, DVI and HDCP to your list of > things to tilt against. There's a very good chance the HDTV set I > bought over a year ago will not be able to show HDTV content in the near > future because of these new schemes. Thanks. Absolutely. - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:11:47 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Crime and Punishment, or a long, sad story, a plea On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 LeftyZ@aol.com wrote: > When I got my computer burner (very nice QPS), the online store I got it from > also sent me a pack of 10 blank CDs (also by QPS). In THAT package was a > permanent marker (a "Marks-a-Lot" "Dual Sharp"). I assumed that one could > safely use it to write on the LINES provided on the label side of the CD > (that appear to be for that exact purpose -- and are obviously well outside > of any "clear area")_....and I've been doing that for a couple months. I've > had no problems with any of the CDs that I've written on (data and music). > Should I expect problems eventually? Depending on the solvent used in the ink, maybe. This is the subject of considerable debate. I believe in being cautious in the case of things like my pre-master mixes and archive volumes for the dayjob, and use staedtler lumocolor 316, a "non-permanent water-soluble" pen. For everyday stuff, i use a fine point sharpie in the clear area. I don't know of anyone seriously suggesting that there's a problem with that. There are plenty of people who claim that Sharpies, which apparently use an alcohol-based ink, will accelerate CD rot, especially in the more vulnerable CDRs. I can't prove it, but I used to use Sharpies all the time, and I have seen several failures in CDR's that I burned 5-6 years ago. It's not at all clear what other factors are or aren't involved. - -- d. - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:20:16 +0800 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a questio n - OT At 10:57 PM -0500 3/21/01, Dana L Paoli wrote: >I pay for apartment insurance, which covers me in case of theft. It >costs about $250 a year, and one robbery will convince a person that it's >a good idea. A suggestion on this: buy it well before you think you might need it. Before my place was robbed, I'd spent over a year trying to get a policy... because of some disasters that had happened in CA around that time, all of the insurance companies had put a freeze on new rental customers. I understand that this isn't totally uncommon. Before that, I'd never had enough stuff that I thought it was necessary. Now I really, really wish I'd done it earlier. Sad irony #1: Just as I was leaving to get on a plane to Australia, a coworker handed me a card of an agent she'd heard would open policies. I planned to call when I got back to the country, but it was too late. Sad irony #2: While I was gone, my friends found out about the robbery and went to some length to get together a collection of essentials for me... a phone, a lamp, a CD player, some music. I picked it up, but when I got home was too nervous to carry it up the street to my apartment that late at night. In the morning, I found the car had been broken into and it had all been stolen. I did find out that most of the used CD stores in LA do look for names and phone numbers on CDs they accept... not that I had marked mine, but it was a good lesson for the future. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stef?= Subject: [loud-fans] DCC dmw wrote: > Sony wanted everyone to be listening to DCCs -- that's digital compact > cassette, a dismal failure -- and MiniDiscs, which do fine in Japan MiniDiscs is Sony but DCC was Philips. I bought one of those fuckers and its only use now is as an extra analog tape deck. 8) Toodlepip, - -Stef Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, Mar 22 2001 10:52:34 GMT-0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT dmw on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:04:24 -0500 (EST) wrote: >The DVD fight is already lost, unfortunately. I regard it as an >unfortunate, and I hope anamolously successful, test case for what level >of intrusiveness the consumer public will put up with in devices. What did you expect? The average consumer has no idea what "level of intrusiveness" his/her DVD player is manifesting, especially now that the players have entered the mainstream. Most people are not going to try to copy the DVD to their hard drive and make copies of it. They just want to watch that rented movie from Blockbuster after the kids have gone to bed. It's more likely that they will try to copy the DVD using a VCR, in which case they will encounter Macrovision. But you really don't hear much about people trying to copy a DVD to a tape, since it's such a step down in quality. For the record, I have a DVD player that defeats both CSS and Macrovision, though I have yet to use either "feature". I have, however, used its "bypass region encoding" feature a few times, so I can watch discs from other regions. So I have no real moral high ground here. I really do think it would be incredibly difficult to get consumers up in arms against something that they don't see as affecting them, though that may be the plan, i.e. "start small and then hit them with the big things". I have a hard time envisioning such conspiracies though. >Circuit City's DIVX program was a dismal failure. It was a failure because even the average consumer could see what a dumb idea it was. >If people boycott CPRM, SDMI, etc. compliant devices, they will fail in >the marketplace. I really do agree with you and wish you good luck in getting that position across. I just don't see "casual users" of the technologies (which, frankly, most people are) caring. Later. --Rog Roger Winston/Reign delle Rane ``Not every candle burns'' http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:35:06 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] minidisc/DCC dmw wrote: > Sony wanted everyone to be listening to DCCs -- that's digital compact > cassette, a dismal failure -- and MiniDiscs, which do fine in Japan >>>>>>>> I'm finally starting to see more of them, which makes me happy 'cause I really like the minidisc format. It'll probably never be as common here as in Japan, but usage seems (based on my unscientific observations) to be increasing. It's extraordinarily convenient for archiving vinyl. One of the best aspects of minidiscs is the ability to re-order your tracks: I do all my swap tapes on minidisc first and then play with the order while I'm commuting to work and back. Also, very handy for "taping" internet radio broadcasts to listen to later. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:21:28 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT Rog writes: For the record, I have a DVD player that defeats both CSS and Macrovision, though I have yet to use either "feature". I have, however, used its "bypass region encoding" feature a few times, so I can watch discs from other regions. So I have no real moral high ground here. <><><><><><><><><> Indeed you do not. Keep that up and pretty soon we'll all be speaking Hindi, dogs will no longer have the will to fight cats, and the Bilderburgers will have their UN stooges send in the jackbooted ATF stormtroopers to mop up those few remaining proud Americans who still remember that regional factionalism is the moral imperative at the heart of any true national identity, while the rest of you, with your values rendered soft-serv by the illicit consumption of extra-regional media, don't even watch the coverage as it unfolds live, because you'd rather wait for the the Japanese dubbed version with the horribly mistranslated engrish subtitles. rolling moral boulders, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:03:23 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] it's tha bomb! (swap review) For the last loud-swap, I received a tape from Cyndy called "Have You Forgotten The Bomb?", full of songs that were (mostly) new to me. I'll omit the few tracks I didn't remember, and review the rest. SIDE A: Barcelona - "Have You Forgotten The Bomb?" The "title track", a low-fi pop song about the atomic bomb era. Star Ghost Dog - "Underdrive" I heard this song at a club last year, and thought it was by Nina Gordon, but there wasn't a song called "Underdrive" on Nina's album, so I meant to do a web search to find out to find out who it was by, but I never did. This is a great song, and my Y2K world would've been a better place if Nina Gordon's album sounded like this! Olivia Tremor Control - "Fireplace" An early OTC song, from last year's odds & ends thing.. I already knew this song, and only mention it because of the brilliant thematic link to the next song. Richard Thompson and Danny Thompson - "Big Chimney" Fireplace to chimney.. I like that! I never picked up the RT/DT INDUSTRY album, but I should because this song is so great! Macha - "Salty" This song is hard to describe, but I like it.. reminds me of late Tim Buckley (both "the late" and TB's later albums). UI - "Pinata" Kind of acid-jazzy I guess. This was interesting the first few plays, then it seemed long. Low - "Dinosaur Act" This is from their new album, and it's really good, but about what would be expected from Low. Yatsura - "Hello Tiger" My favorite song on the first side, a sort of driving Britpop number. They must take their name from URUSEI YATSURA, the weird-ass Japanese cartoon (is it uncool to call anime "cartoons"?) that used to run on San Jose's PBS station.. SIDE B: Noonday Underground - "Hello" Any song called "Hello" is a good way to start a side. Jim O' Rourke - "Fuzzy Sun" And I'm also fond of most songs with "sun" in the title! The Beautiful South - "Tonight I Fancy Myself" All in all, probably my favorite song on the tape. I sort-of remember the Beautiful South, who were related to the Housemartins. This song was like a rush of fresh air, and the male vocalist remided me a lot of Grant McLennan (of the Go-Betweens). Failure - "Pillowhead" I liked this tune quite a bit. Five years ago, when this album came out, I wrote these guys off as another bunch of Nirvana-be's, which they are, but they're really good at it, and that sound isn't as pervasive nowadays, so now I can hear Failure with fresh ears, and can't complain ("Pillowhead" sounds a lot like "On A Plain", btw!) The Waxwings - "Fragile Girl" I saw the Waxwings live a while back, and they rocked, but I still haven't picked up this album (LOW TO THE GROUND).. Guess I should. The Minders - "Young And With It" The title of this song (which I'd never heard before) reminds me of my favorite quote by Abe(Grandpa) Simpson: "I used to be with it, then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with, isn't it. And what's it, seems wierd and scary to me!" Telescope - "Flying" Not the Beatles song or the Badfinger song, so it's probably a Telescope original, but it's quite familiarly Beatlesque and psychedelic, and flows perfectly into.. Adult Net - "Incense and Peppermints" Faithful over of the Strawberry Alarm Clock song with a female vocalist, who for some reason sings "meaningless sounds" instead of "meaningless nouns" and "laugh at yourself" for "look at yourself".. For a long time, I thought this song was called "Insects and Peppermint", and was bummed to find out it wasn't. Fun Death Cab For Cutie - "For What Reason" I saw DCFC live in Seattle at Bumbershoot '99, the same place I didn't meet Cyndy Patrick for the first time, and I liked them then, but not enough to pick up their CD.. This is from their latest one WE HAVE THE FACTS AND WE'RE VOTING YES. Thanks to Cyndy for a great tape.. Coming up next: Jon Gabriel's tape, THE RHYTHM IS GONNA GET YOU! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:45:40 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it's tha bomb! (swap review) At 12:03 PM 3/22/01 -0800, Steve Holtebeck wrote: >Richard Thompson and Danny Thompson - "Big Chimney" >Fireplace to chimney.. I like that! I never picked up the RT/DT >INDUSTRY album, but I should because this song is so great! You really should! I don't know why, but this got absolutely *scathing* reviews when it came it. I think maybe it's because it doesn't particularly sound much like your average Richard Thompson album, but on its own merits, it's a much more interesting record than it was given credit for at the time. There's almost a jazzy feel to a lot of Richard's playing, like he'd been listening to a lot of Wes Montgomery albums. >Yatsura - "Hello Tiger" >My favorite song on the first side, a sort of driving Britpop number. >They must take their name from URUSEI YATSURA, the weird-ass Japanese >cartoon (is it uncool to call anime "cartoons"?) that used to run on San >Jose's PBS station.. In the UK, they're known as Urusei Yatsura! They're terribly uneven, but every Yatsura album and EP I have has at least one terrific manic pop-spazz song. They're heavily influenced by Pavement, a fact they make completely explicit in the spoken introduction to their single "Kozee Heart," which sounds exactly like the great lost followup to "Cut Your Hair." >Adult Net - "Incense and Peppermints" >Faithful over of the Strawberry Alarm Clock song with a female vocalist, >who for some reason sings "meaningless sounds" instead of "meaningless >nouns" and "laugh at yourself" for "look at yourself".. >For a long time, I thought this song was called "Insects and >Peppermint", and was bummed to find out it wasn't. Fun The Adult Net made a habit of faithful covers of '60s pop songs--they also did "Remember (Walking in the Sand)" and a killer version of the P.F. Sloan-penned Grass Roots hit "Where Were You When I Needed You." As an avowed Barbara Manning fan (unless I'm misremembering), you might be interested that the Adult Net's singer/songwriter was Brix Smith, of "Mark E. Smith and Brix" fame. This was her extracurricular activity during (and after) her time in the Fall, which makes the sugar-sweet poppiness of just about everything they ever did that much more surprising. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:51:23 -0800 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: [loud-fans] FW: For Game Theory/Loud Family Fans This Fri. just got this! see you all there!!!! - -- brianna bradley - -----Original Message----- From: Yuji Oniki Hello, A belated thanks for all those who came to the Kozolek show. We had a great time playing (except for the amp exploding) at the Great American last month, and hope to return some time soon. Tomorrow night we will be participating in the Popular Noise Foundations benefit show at the Starry Plough. Each act plays covers of a bay area band. Since we don't have enough backup singers to do Sly and the Family Stone we will be playing some Game Theory songs from the eighties. We go on at 11PM for three songs. Mebbe we'll see you, mebbe we won't. Otherwise, we're laying low, getting this next record done. Ciao, Yuji Oniki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:07:26 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Zwirn Subject: [loud-fans] Here Comes Everybody I'm in Portland this week and noticed a club listing for a band called Here Comes Everybody. Is this a Scott Miller reference? unusually curt, Michael - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Zwirn mzwirn01@tufts.edu ICQ #12755821 Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University, Medford MA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 2001 21:47:34 -0500 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Here Comes Everybody Michael Zwirn writes: | I'm in Portland this week and noticed a club listing for a band | called Here Comes Everybody. Is this a Scott Miller reference? It's a reference to James Joyce's FINNEGANS WAKE. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:52:55 -0800 From: "Michael Roeser" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Here Comes Everybody I think it's ultimately a James Joyce reference (from Finnegan's Wake?). I remember hearing that Joyce was referring to Catholicism with the phrase.... Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org [mailto:owner-loud-fans@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Michael Zwirn > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:07 PM > To: Loud-fans mailing list > Subject: [loud-fans] Here Comes Everybody > > > I'm in Portland this week and noticed a club listing for a band called > Here Comes Everybody. Is this a Scott Miller reference? > > unusually curt, > Michael > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Zwirn mzwirn01@tufts.edu ICQ #12755821 > Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University, Medford MA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:26:30 EST From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it's tha bomb! (swap review) In a message dated 3/22/01 3:10:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, smholt@ix.netcom.com writes: > The Waxwings - "Fragile Girl" > I saw the Waxwings live a while back, and they rocked, but I still > haven't picked up this album (LOW TO THE GROUND).. Guess I should. > > Yes. I believe LTTG was one of ten best releases last year...I like the harmonies of these guys. This is one disc that seems to have fallen through the cracks in indie circles somewhat, but the critics seemed to all agree on it. They are all right on this one. - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:46:19 -0800 From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Here Comes Everybody At 9:07 PM 3/22/1, Michael Zwirn wrote: >I'm in Portland this week and noticed a club listing for a band called >Here Comes Everybody. Is this a Scott Miller reference? Nope, it's a James Joyce reference (FINNEGAN'S WAKE). who's Curt?, Matt I never would believe that Providence had sent a few men into the world, ready booted and spurred to ride, and millions ready saddled and bridled to be ridden. Richard Rumbold, statement on scaffold before being hung for rebellion in 1685 ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #6 *****************************