From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #4 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 004 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] cd burning Q [mick ] [loud-fans] schmutzie [Cardinal007@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] more OT rambling from guess who [MarkWStaples@aol.com] RE: [loud-fans] Soft Boys! [Larry Tucker ] RE: [loud-fans] SMOE! CD burning [Larry Tucker ] [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [bbra] Re: [loud-fans] schmutzie [Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com] Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [] Re: [loud-fans] cd burning Q [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT [Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] cd burning Q To add to Stewart's fine post on the subject: >Make sure there's a check in the box next to "Select" >under "Line in," and that the volume slider is at a reasonable >level. You may have to experiment to find out what that >reasonable level is, but I have mine even with the second >tic-mark from the top. - --It's especially important to make sure the input level is set properly (Stewart's setting, for example, would be way too high on my machine). Going a bit "into the red" might be ok in the analog domain, but in digital the results are not at all pleasant. You can fine tune this by running Cool Edit and choosing "Monitor VU Level" (I'm still using Cool Edit 96 but I'm sure it's in your newer version). Before you record, do a test run by playing what you think is the loudest track of the input source (lp, cassette, etc.), and watch the meter in Cool Edit while you adjust the Line-In control on the Recording Control panel in Windows. When it comes time to actually record, you should turn the VU monitoring off. - --The quality of the analog-to-digital conversion your sound card performs is *crucial*. If you have a cheap-o card that doesn't do a good job, you're done. Example: I once showed a musician friend of mine who wanted to transfer his songs (from DAT) how it was done, but his older Dell machine had the sound circuitry built into the motherboard (no separate sound card), and the resulting audio was extremely dull sounding. This was not a subtle difference--it was completely unacceptable. We had to do the deed on my machine instead. (I'm in digest mode, hope I'm not repeating any points....) Mick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:44:05 EST From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] schmutzie In a message dated 3/20/01 11:16:25 PM, schmutz@erols.com writes: >I think she lived in East Wickham, but she was born in Bexleyheath, fact >fans, the same town I grew up in, and went to school with my sister... > but >neither East Wickham nor Bexleyheath (as Tim points out) are anywhere *near* >Stonehenge. You Limey %#$&#$%##*#^^#!!! If you had a restaurant in Greenville, I'd mop up the floor with yez ..... as soon as you people drop yer "heath"s and yer "ton"s and yer "shire"s, maybe we can do business. >But you get the inference: nobody knew where she came from, or what she >was >doin'. I've pined for such a woman since youth. >-- Grahame, breaking his SMOE virginity [was it good for you?] [and don't go braggin' it up at work] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:53:07 EST From: MarkWStaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more OT rambling from guess who In a message dated 3/20/01 8:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, sleeveless@citynet.net writes: << you talk about how upset you were, but you didn't say if the waitress seemed distressed by it. >> I wondered after my last post if touching someone in her native culture on the lower back like that would be considered okay...and this was a male touching a female, and would class differnces play a part as well for her if she was back in her homeland. She seemed unshaken...she didn't flinch or skip a beat as far as I could tell...she just continued doing her job. It was really none of my business, but it bothered me, since I was in earshot, but I kept it to myself, like a good southern boy who was taught not to rock the boat in public, though I was dying a thousand deaths over my spicy chicken. Whether you or anyone else here thinks it was appropriate for me to be angered, or think I'm just as bad in my own way as that guy, I am glad it got some responses to give me some perspective. I can't put myself in a 20 year old girl from mainland China's shoes living in a new country, and she can't put hers in mine, and yes, it is imperialistic of me to assume my way is the "right" way, but I just thought he was a pig asshole, and that isn't gonna change, and he's probably not gonna change either. If I spoke with the guy I could imagine all sorts of lovely adjectives coming out of his mouth about me under his breath as I walked away, like "nigger lovin' faggot," or what have you. Obla di, obla da, life goes on. - -Mark "I don't know...I'm just a girl!" (Malibu Stacy) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:34:41 -0500 From: Larry Tucker Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Soft Boys! |-----Original Message----- |From: Larry Tucker [mailto:tuckerchill@hotmail.com] |Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:46 AM |To: loud-fans@smoe.org |Subject: [loud-fans] Soft Boys! |for most it's gonna involve some driving. Dana, let me know if |you make it |to the 9:30 Club show. Doug, I don't know why I always refer to you as Dana. maybe getting up after a long night with 3 hours sleep before that post had something to do with it. Hope no offences were taken....either way. Did you make it to the 9:30 Club show, Doug? - -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:42:47 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more OT rambling from guess who Cardinal sez: Hoping that cultures die and go away is shameful. It's people like you, with your exclusionist, intolerant views, that make me sick. And picking on him for being bald is disgraceful. Do you call wheelchair-bound persons "crip pigs"? Do you call acne sufferers "pitted pigs"? <><><><><><><><> I could see the value of this argument if it weren't long established that baldness is a choice, and the wrong one at that. - --D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:45:39 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Soft Boys! |for most it's gonna involve some driving. Dana, let me know if |you make it |to the 9:30 Club show. Doug, I don't know why I always refer to you as Dana. maybe getting up after a long night with 3 hours sleep before that post had something to do with it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't imagine why anyone would make that mistake. - -- d. - - oh no, you've just read mail from dana = dana-boy@juno.com- get yr danapathos- www.pathetic-danacaverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews- www.fecklessdanabeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = Ibanez pop ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:39:46 -0500 From: Larry Tucker Subject: RE: [loud-fans] SMOE! CD burning |-----Original Message----- |From: dmw [mailto:dmw@radix.net] |Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:57 AM |To: where they have to let you in |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] SMOE! CD burning | | |On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Larry Tucker wrote: | |> noise removal app. It just dosen't do a good job of getting |out those pops |> and generally degrades the sound. It takes a little effort, |but you can do a |> better job with a sound editor such as Cool Edit by just |deleting the pops |> individually. They're often easy to see, just zoom in to the |pop and delete | |I spent about a week writing a de-clicker to repair some glitchy audio |narration I recorded. THen I went a little deeper in debt - $50? -- to |get the noise reduction add-on for Cool Edit 2000. Interestingly, it |seems to work along similar lines to the one I wrote -- but a file that |my program can process in an hour the Cool Edit program can do in about |two-three minutes. Highly recommended. So it really works well. I thought Spin Doctor which is part of Adaptec's Easy CD Creator was very subpar. I haven't even tried Cool Edit's "cleanup" tool, but I will now. Thanks for the tip *Doug*. - -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:10:31 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] SMOE! CD burning At 11:39 AM 3/21/01 -0500, Larry Tucker wrote: >|I spent about a week writing a de-clicker to repair some glitchy audio >|narration I recorded. THen I went a little deeper in debt - $50? -- to >|get the noise reduction add-on for Cool Edit 2000. Interestingly, it >|seems to work along similar lines to the one I wrote -- but a file that >|my program can process in an hour the Cool Edit program can do in about >|two-three minutes. Highly recommended. > >So it really works well. I thought Spin Doctor which is part of Adaptec's >Easy CD Creator was very subpar. I haven't even tried Cool Edit's "cleanup" >tool, but I will now. Thanks for the tip *Doug*. Among the other benefits of the noise reduction add-ons in Cool Edit is that they have a neat little preview function called "Keep only noise," which you can listen to to see if it's taking out too much actual music along with the pops and hiss. I second Doug's recommendation. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:25:18 -0800 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT a good friend of mine owns/runs and djs a number of the goth/industrial clubs in SF. he's supported that scene for years and ekes out a meager living by welcoming the gothic and industrial community into his venues and spinning there and as a hired gun at a few other places. Monday night his car was broken into and all of his music was stolen. it was the only car on the street that was hit, and they got about 1000 cds, both originals and mixes. the saddest part of all is that the police got a 911 call from a witness who described the theif in pretty much the same words you'd use to describe one of the folks who goes to his clubs. my guess is it was someone who knew exactly what car to hit and had a pretty good idea of what they were going to get. please, if any of you work in or frequent used music stores in the bay area (and i know you do ;) ), take a minute to mention to the manager that they might want to watch for a large collection of gothic and industrial music with no jewel cases and very few covers. most places will be more than happy to keep an eye out and many folks have gotten their tunes back this way, esp. with such a unique and large collection. the description of the theif was 'white guy, all black clothes'. feel free to give out my phone number as a contact if the store wants to call and report finding something. 408-609-2633 is my cell. they can also call SFPD. the owner's name is fernando - that should be enough to get them back to him. and now the question - because of all of this, he is looking for a way to organize MP3s. can anyone recommend a good, straightforward MP3 organizer? strangley enough, i don't think he used any MP3s before - quality, musician's rights, etc. - but people are coming out in droves to help him put his library back together. most of this is taking the form of burned audio, but MP3s are so much faster to transfer that it's kind of the only option right this second. (fernando spins almost every night of the week.) if you'd like to go one step further, or just see how the community is coming out tho help, please see http://assimilate2000.com. (it looks like it's throwing an error right now - hopefully the guy who wrote the script will get it fixed.) i started this manually while someone put a script together for me, and i had offers to burna total of about 400 cds within about 3 hours. hopefully we'll have him up and spinning soon. this is one time i think there is precious little argument about whether or not it's ok to burn copies of cds. fernando has been a long time promoter of live music as well, often going nearly broke because he brought in too many live bands. he's done his part. thank you, brianna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:32:19 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] schmutzie il Cardinal gave us this threadtitle this morning. But yesterday, brianna told us that smurfs: "...are called schlumpfies (singular=schlumpfy) in german, or so i've been told" So now I'm confused. brianna also mentioned that: "culture is weird." Then (replying to something else entirely, but nonetheless) BotServer FF wrote: "Right. No culture has any common traits. When we define cultures, we do so completely arbitrarily. Culture is entirely a biological matter. "Pardon my irony...but the fact is, if "culture" is to mean anything, it means that certain ways of thinking, feeling, and acting are more common (read: more accepted) within that culture than others are. I know Andrea has good motives in making her comment, but in this instance she carries the belief in non-stereotyping well past decrying stereotyping and into an overcorrection which would deny the existence of culture at all." So now I'm even more confused. Smurfs are either schmutzies or they're schlumpfies; their culture is either weird or it's normative. Which is it, huh? I mean, sure, they're *blue*, but at least they're all *blue*, right? Then finally (again, in a fashion related only marginally, if at all, to the other comments), Mark sez: "I wondered after my last post if touching someone in her native culture [...etc.]" Aw, ick, man, unpleasant visual. That *is* just plain weird. Thank you for your time regarding this important matter, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:11:15 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT and now the question - because of all of this, he is looking for a way to organize MP3s. can anyone recommend a good, straightforward MP3 organizer? strangley enough, i don't think he used any MP3s before - quality, musician's rights, etc. >>>>>>>>> It's always interesting to see where our moral stances begin and end. Apparently he's opposed to stealing music unless he himself is stolen from, in which case it's ok. What a tangled web we weave. (Not to imply that I'm not sorry for the guy, and I hope he gets his collection back and that the theives get caught and sentenced to listen to a collection of 1000 goth/industrial CDs.) - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:53:49 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] cd burning Q mick wrote: > > (I'm still using Cool Edit 96 but I'm sure it's in your newer > version). http://www.syntrillium.com/cooledit/upgrade.htm you can upgrade '96 to 2000 for much cheaper than buying the new one. in the meantime you can try out the demo and see if you want to upgrade. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:11:26 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Dana L Paoli wrote: > It's always interesting to see where our moral stances begin and end. > Apparently he's opposed to stealing music unless he himself is stolen > from, in which case it's ok. What a tangled web we weave. now *this* is bizarre. you insist on using the word "stealing" for both actions even when you've got a side-by-side comparison which demonstrates how infelicitous that word is here. if his collection were "stolen" in the way that you first use the word -- that is, if it were copied from him without his permission -- he'd still have it. he wouldn't be doing anything with mp3s at all. moreover... well, wait. if i steal something from you, it's not legally mine, is it? is it yours, or the government's, or what? none of the possibilities quite makes sense to me. if it's still mine, then presumably i can make mp3s for myself if i want. are thieves -- actual thieves, i mean -- always compelled to return their ill-gotten gains when they're caught? a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:17:32 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT I was at the local Wherehouse music (don't kill me for frequesnting a chain), and there, whenever they buy any CDs at all, they require that you provide ID, and they keep a record of what they bought from you. The guy I was talking to said the police regularly call with lists of stolen CDs, and they are regularly able to catch thieves this way. It seems like a pretty reasonable thing everyone should do. So I hope they catch the guy and your friend gets his CDs back. - --Michael "There's a badger in the dog house." "Badger my ass--it's probably Milhouse." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:48:21 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT now *this* is bizarre. you insist on using the word "stealing" for both actions even when you've got a side-by-side comparison which demonstrates how infelicitous that word is here. if his collection were "stolen" in the way that you first use the word -- that is, if it were copied from him without his permission -- he'd still have it. he wouldn't be doing anything with mp3s at all. >>>>>>> You're confusing the victim of the theft, which makes it look more complicated than it is. The thief stole the discs from the owner. The owner is now stealing the music from its owner. I don't see the difficulty. When you buy a CD, you don't purchase the right to have its contents in perpetuity. You have the right to make copies for yourself, but you are not entitled to copies if you don't make them. Such is life, which is frequently cruel. BTW, within the last week the NY Times ran a blurb in the metro section: Police and FBI agents were sent on a raid to an illegal CD duplicating company in the city. The owners were arrested and their equipment and product impounded. I doubt that any of us have a problem with this. And yet, put it on a smaller scale and suddenly it seems all confusing. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:16:40 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:48:21 -0500, Dana L Paoli wrote: >You're confusing the victim of the theft, which makes it look more >complicated than it is. The thief stole the discs from the owner. The >owner is now stealing the music from its owner. I don't see the >difficulty. Two difficulties: 1. In the first case, the "owner" no longer has possession of the discs. In the second, the "owner" still possesses the music. 2. When you buy a CD, are you buying the physical medium, or are you buying the music? If the latter, how is it stealing to obtain what you already own? If the former, why do CDs cost so much more than blank discs? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:38:40 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT dana, then aaron: > It's always interesting to see where our moral stances begin and end. > Apparently he's opposed to stealing music unless he himself is stolen > from, in which case it's ok. What a tangled web we weave. now *this* is bizarre. you insist on using the word "stealing" for both actions even when you've got a side-by-side comparison which demonstrates how infelicitous that word is here. if his collection were "stolen" in the way that you first use the word -- that is, if it were copied from him without his permission -- he'd still have it. he wouldn't be doing anything with mp3s at all. moreover... well, wait. if i steal something from you, it's not legally mine, is it? is it yours, or the government's, or what? none of the possibilities quite makes sense to me. if it's still mine, then presumably i can make mp3s for myself if i want. <><><><><><><><><> Let me start by saying that I have nothing productive to input into this discussion. That said, it seems to me that since the MP3s in brianna's friend's case were made in California, and that lacking physical media in the same hard sense as a cassette, one might plausibly instead say that the raw material from which MP3s are made is energy. Now, following the RIAAs precedent in adding a surcharge on the cost of blank media, I will humbly suggest that the piracy issue might be simply and easily resolved by merely ading a surcharge to electricity in the state of California. Given that this works, the plan might be promptly rolled out internationally, starting with a similar surcharge on domestic meat supplies in England. Thank you for your time regarding this important matter, - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:44:58 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, John Swartzentruber wrote: > 2. When you buy a CD, are you buying the physical medium, or are you > buying the music? If the latter, how is it stealing to obtain what you > already own? If the former, why do CDs cost so much more than blank > discs? In a legal sense, you are buying the physical medium, which contains music. You are certainly NOT buying the music -- your purchase of the CD entitles you to listen to the CD, but not to broadcast/perform the music therein publically, re-recorded the music, distribute the music, listen to that music for free on any jukebox, etc. You can agree or disagree with the morality of the foregoing, but legally, that one is cut and dried. I don't quite understand what happens to your rights when property is stolen from you, in a legal sense. I would be inclined to think that you still had the right to listen to the CD, even if you didn't have it, since you didn't DO anything to terminate your right to listen to the CD, like sell it, or give it away. If you had already made an archival copy, as permitted under law, and the archival copy was not stolen, I think you'd still be legally entitled to listen to it. To argue otherwise would seem to consider the theft a valid contract between the victim and the thief. But I suspect, legally, it makes no difference if you have no archival copy, since once the CD is no longer in your posession, you can't listen to it without either buying it again, or acquiring a copyright-infringing copy. disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I cross (s)words with them frequently. - -- d. - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:02:10 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT Two difficulties: 1. In the first case, the "owner" no longer has possession of the discs. In the second, the "owner" still possesses the music. 2. When you buy a CD, are you buying the physical medium, or are you buying the music? If the latter, how is it stealing to obtain what you already own? If the former, why do CDs cost so much more than blank discs? >>>>>>>>> When you buy a CD, you purchase the physical CD, and with that purchase come limited rights, granted by the owner of the music on the CD (technically it can be more complicated, but that'll do). You gain the right to listen to the CD and to make copies for your personal use. Repeat that like a mantra: you gain the right to listen to the CD and to make copies for your personal use. You do not gain the right to get copies of the CD from someone else if your copy gets stolen, or if you lose it, or if you sell it to Sammy the guy on the corner and then regret it five years later. Pre-recorded CDs cost more than blank ones because of these attending rights. You can do anything you want with the physical CD (hang it on the wall, turn it into pants, smoke it...). Your rights with respect to its contents (including artwork) are not so limitless. Note also that it is possible to purchase the rights to a song without actually owning any sort of media containing that song. There are a lot of aspects to a "song" that can be owned, and when you buy a CD, you're getting limited access to some of these. I'm sure that if you drag in a lawyer you can make it more complicated, but the above is the basic answer. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:08:01 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:44:58 -0500 (EST), dmw wrote: >> 2. When you buy a CD, are you buying the physical medium, or are you >> buying the music? If the latter, how is it stealing to obtain what you >> already own? If the former, why do CDs cost so much more than blank >> discs? > >In a legal sense, you are buying the physical medium, which contains >music. You are certainly NOT buying the music -- your purchase of the CD >entitles you to listen to the CD, but not to broadcast/perform the music >therein publically, re-recorded the music, distribute the music, >listen to that music for free on any jukebox, etc. I was sloppy. As you point out, you clearly do not buy the music. But it does appear that you are buying the right to listen to the music, which still makes the point. And also my main point to dana which was that this is a key point where the difficulty lies. I don't see that there are ethical, moral, and legal answers that are obvious to everyone. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:36:01 -0800 From: "Jeff Brenneman" Subject: [loud-fans] TAPE SWAP REVIEW: Enchanted Racket, Volume I: Its A Gas! TAPE SWAP REVIEW: Enchanted Racket Volume I: Its A Gas! Let me start off by saying this is my first time participating in the tape swap. It was another list member who expressed that the reviewing part was the part that was most difficult or least desirable. Im in total agreement only because I found verbal and written communication as a huge obstacle. With that said lets go.. Another Note: I requested Apples In Stereo, Fountains Of Wayne, Guided By Voices & The Spinanes. These were all bands that were recommended to me, but before the tape I had little or no exposure to. SIDE A: Off A Big, Big Cliff Simple Pleasures  Kimberley Rew. I love simple pop songs with jangly guitars so what can I say besides I love this! I did a minimal amount of research on K. Rew after hearing this track. I own 2 R. Hitchcock disks (which I love) but I had no previous knowledge of the Soft Boys. What timing! Theyre reuniting for this upcoming tour and Ill be there at The Knitting Factory in LA next month! Seems So  Apples In Stereo. More jangly guitars! Gotta love the vocal melodies! Right up my alley. Must invest in these guys. I always love tambourine used in pop songs. I guess the recommendations from those who know me, were appropriate! Surgical Focus  Guided By Voices. This isnt what I expected from GBV at all, but I love it nonetheless. Whats a good CD to start with from them (they do have several out, right?) Also, these guys are coming to town soon, the same day I got invited to see Psychedelic Furs. Hmmmmmm.. Denise  Fountains Of Wayne. Im not sure that I totally understand the label power pop, but my guess is this the epitome of that label? Another that I immediately added to my list of CDs to buy! GREAT STUFF! My Before And After  Cotton Mather. I own Cotton Is King, which I really love, but I have a hard time listening to in its entirety. Theres something about certain voices that make song after song too similar to me. The only example that comes to mind is Darius from Hootie & The Blowfish, although I think he has a cool voice and the songs are good, they sound too simlar for some strange reason. OK, so back to the track at hand. I love it! Im guessing from Kon Tiki (is that the title?) Works great in a mix tape! And tambourine? Cool! TV Dream  Young Fresh Fellows. This is the first cut that I dont care for. Is this typical of their sound? They sound like a lot of San Diego ska bands which I find to be a worn out style. I have found myself self taping my feet to this lately after repetitive listens. Pool side  Webb Wilder And The Beatnecks. I dont like this at all. Would this be considered rockabilly? I reach for the forward button everytime this comes on. That Elvis style no dogs is the best part though. Im Alright  Owsley. Power Pop right? I dont care for these labels, but I guess theyre an evil necessity. Regardless, this is one of my favorites. I bought the CD after hearin this and Im glad I did! GREAT! Mister Magazine  The Knack. Im not sure how you pulled off the blend from Im Alright into Mister Magazine West, but its cool. This is good. I think Ill keep an eye in the budget bins for this. Porcelain Monkey  Warren Zevon. Sounds a lot like Dire Straights (sp?) to me. I hated this at first, but Ive come to appreciate it a little bit. Perhaps if I keep listening, I will become a fan? Your New Boy  You Were Spiraling. I love that name for a group! The production seems very unprofessional. Is this an unsigned, local group. Much potential! The Middle Eastern feel is quite nifty. I bet these guys played the heck out of their Ben Folds Five CDs! Better Start Right Now  The Rooks. I have a Rooks CD which has gotten quite a few plays on my CD players. I cant see purchasing more. (see Cotton Mather notes.) Good song. Another that I think works better in a mix tape than in a CD of tunes all for the band. Your Sister Told Me  Don Dixon. What is it about double D do I find so cool? Ive only heard a handful of songs and Ive loved them all. This is no exception! I can envision Huey Lewis doing this same song and not being as impressed. Why? No clue! Jerked Around  Liquor Giants. Ive wanted to hear something by these guys for a while. And now I have and it doesnt offer anything that I find enjoyable at this time. I always forward the tape to the end now. THANKS West! SIDE B REVIEW COMING SOON! Take Care! Jeff. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 2001 16:48:26 -0500 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TAPE SWAP REVIEW: Enchanted Racket, Volume I: Its A Gas! "Jeff Brenneman" writes: | Surgical Focus  Guided By Voices. This isnt what I expected from | GBV at all, but I love it nonetheless. Whats a good CD to start with | from them (they do have several out, right?) Also, these guys are | coming to town soon, the same day I got invited to see Psychedelic | Furs. Hmmmmmm.. The best intro CD to Guided By Voices is probably ISOLATION DRILLS, but it doesn't come out for another month. I think DO THE COLLAPSE (which has "Surgical Focus") is a great starter CD - for one thing, the production is professional - but opinions seem to vary a lot. Certainly it's the least indicative of their 'normal sound. The consensus seems to be that BEE THOUSAND is their masterpiece, but it's my least favorite of their 'mature' (last six) records. ALIEN LANES is one of my favorite records of the 90s. Let's see, what does that leave? UNDER THE BUSHES UNDER THE STARS has plenty of good stuff but drags a little, and MAG EARWHIG! is a nice halfway point between the cluttered homebrew sound and big production. Really, they're all superb, but make sure you give it a few listens. For some reason, GBV can take a while to sink in. Oh, and I've only seen them live once, but they KILLED. The power of rock and roll has rarely been more effectively demonstrated. - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:55:53 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, dmw wrote: > But I suspect, legally, it makes no difference if you have no archival > copy, since once the CD is no longer in your posession, you can't > listen to it without either buying it again, or acquiring a > copyright-infringing copy. that's circular reasoning, though -- the copy isn't copyright-infringing if you're allowed to make it. i wonder if the difficulty, normally, is that someone who takes reasonable precautions can't be punished for another person's theft; that is, if you steal a CD and then sell it on ebay, the cops can't come and take the CD from the web-buyer. i'm still really curious if stolen property that *hasn't* changed hands is returned to the owner as a matter of course. it seems like it must be. if so, are you still the legal owner during the time between the theft and the retrival? then, i guess, the next question raised is whether having the right to copy something for personal use only extends to the physical copy whose purchase originally gave you the right to make copies for personal use. if i own a CD, can i borrow the same CD from someone else and make a copy of that for myself? nothing i can personally think of about copyright makes a distinction between particular copies; it's at the very heart of copyright that all 100,000 copies of a Superchunk CD are copies of the same work, not 100,000 different copyrighted objects. from a purely ethical standpoint (not legal or moral), this one seems to come down to the question of whether artists who sign a contract or choose a retail price for their CDs are counting on theft, misplacement, vengeful ex-lovers (et al.) to bump up their sales slightly. this is very different, after all, from deciding that you don't want something and selling it, then deciding that you should still have the right to listen it. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:57:47 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT dana-boy and i paraphrase each other: > When you buy a CD, you purchase the physical CD, and with that purchase come limited rights, granted by the owner of the music on the CD (technically it can be more complicated, but that'll do). You gain the see, apparently you and i are interchangable after all! (btw the dana-caverns thing really cracked me up) ________________________________________________________________ GET PATHOS ACCESS FROM DOUG! Doug offers REVIEWS or CONTENT Internet access for less! Join Doug today! For your PATHOS software, visit: http://www.yadda.yadda/get/yadda. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:17:29 -0500 From: Larry Tucker Subject: RE: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a questi on - OT |-----Original Message----- |From: dmw [mailto:dmw@radix.net] |Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:58 PM |To: where they have to let you in |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a |question - OT | | |dana-boy and i paraphrase each other: | |> When you buy a CD, you purchase the physical CD, and with |that purchase |come limited rights, granted by the owner of the music on the CD |(technically it can be more complicated, but that'll do). You gain the | | |see, apparently you and i are interchangable after all! | |(btw the dana-caverns thing really cracked me up) So maybe I'm actually "on" to something here with my perpetual confusions. Has anybody actually seen Dana and Doug at the same place at the same time? - -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:25:55 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] a long, sad story, a plea for help, and a question - OT On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Aaron Mandel wrote: > i wonder if the difficulty, normally, is that someone who takes reasonable > precautions can't be punished for another person's theft; that is, if you > steal a CD and then sell it on ebay, the cops can't come and take the CD > from the web-buyer. i'm still really curious if stolen property that can't they? I was under the impression that they could. i'm sure they don't routinely, but I think that's only because the comparitively low value of the item and the difficulty of proving that it is the *same* cd that was stolen make it not worth it. Isn't "receiving stolen property" generally criminal itself? > *hasn't* changed hands is returned to the owner as a matter of course. it > seems like it must be. if so, are you still the legal owner during the When it can be conclusively identified, yes. The whole point of the National Bike Registry, for example, is to make it easier to re-connect stolen/recovered bikes with their owners. > i own a CD, can i borrow the same CD from someone else and make a copy of > that for myself? nothing i can personally think of about copyright makes a > distinction between particular copies; it's at the very heart of copyright beg to differ (again, not necessarily personally, but in a legal sense.) This is essentially that argument that My.MP3 lost. My.MP3 argued that it was okay for them to allow people who had purchased a CD to make copies from a copy of that CD that My.MP3 had purchased. They lost, to the tune of $50M. I think, in fact, that you are only entitled to make a copy of the *instance* of the media that you purchased. This is arguably a silly distinction, even more so when you consider distribution that is essentially media-less (eg. downloading an mp3) but when the laws were written, or even when the Betamax decision on which much of this is based was made, the idea of distributing intellectual property w/o needing media to do it with was not in the lawmaker/judges' minds. The DMCA is an obvious exception, but arguably, again, the DMCA is a muddled mess, trying to serve too many masters, and trying to apply old concepts in realms where they are difficult to apply. (There's been a lot of discussion on the Pho list lately about the legal status of transient copies created as a result of hardware/streaming software in normal operation, for example.) > from a purely ethical standpoint (not legal or moral), this one seems to > come down to the question of whether artists who sign a contract or choose > a retail price for their CDs are counting on theft, misplacement, vengeful could we say copyright holder instead of artist, here, please? because I think that will make the answer obvious. I think the fact that your rights to a given piece of property, musical or not, are removed w/o your consent is the whole reason that "theft" is a crime. It is certainly unfair to the victim, but that's sort of the point, isn't it? That's why the poor dj is a victim (with whom I really do sympathize, having had about nine hundred albums stolen ten years ago) not just a guy who shared his music with some wearing-black guy. Please understand, I'm not on a moral high horse: I have accepted tapes of albums that were stolen from me back then, and I have made copies of albums more recently than that for people from whom they were stolen. I made a copy of a rare, out-of-print CD for someone whose own copy had fallen victim to CD rot (as did the bulk of the run; it wasn't _Lolita Nation_ or anything relevant to this list). If any of the copyright holders wanted to take me to court for criminal infringement (and I could somehow afford a lawyer and somehow couldn't settle) I suppose I'd plead a fair-use defense. But I wouldn't really expect it to fly, and I do think those were infringing actions according to the letter and spirit of current intellectual property law. - -- d. - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #4 *****************************