From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2015 #441 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, August 21 2015 Volume 2015 : Number 441 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Black Crow [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Black Crow ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Joni #9 in Rolling Stones Top 100 Songwriters of All Time list [Clin] Re: Joni #9 in Rolling Stone songwriters list [Jeff Clark ] Re: Black Crow [David Lahm ] RE: Mr Dylan (NJC) ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2015 #433 ["Pete Christensen" ] RE: Black Crow ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Black Crow [Dave Blackburn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:08:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Black Crow Well of course I love love love this song. It's such a ROCKER even given that there are no drums on it. There lots of great covers of it that rock it out even further. I'm a sucker for a great guitar riff and this one is one of her catchiest. It also starts with that crazy high note...THERE'S a crow flying...another rambling thought, the lyric "diving down to pick up on every shining thing" comes into my head all the time. Bob NP: Quiet Company, "I Heard The Devil Say My Name" From: "Susan E. McNamara" To: "'joni@smoe.org'" , Date: 08/20/2015 10:53 AM Subject: Black Crow Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org I'm practicing Black Crow on my new (to me) electric guitar, and I realized that there are no drums on this song, and the rhythm is all Joni. Both Jaco and Larry Carlton seem to be working on flourishes. I find it amazing and pretty daunting although I am pushing on!!! Would love to hear other ideas about this fabulous song! Sue Tierney McNamara Email: sem8@cornell.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:49:04 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Black Crow I'm practicing Black Crow on my new (to me) electric guitar, and I realized that there are no drums on this song, and the rhythm is all Joni. Both Jaco and Larry Carlton seem to be working on flourishes. I find it amazing and pretty daunting although I am pushing on!!! Would love to hear other ideas about this fabulous song! Sue Tierney McNamara Email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:14:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Joni #9 in Rolling Stones Top 100 Songwriters of All Time list I agree. But "Lay Lady Lay" and "Buckets of Rain" are pretty good performed by Bob. It took me until I was a lot older to appreciate Bob but interestingly enough I always liked "Lay lady Lay" even when I didn't know who sang it (extreme early age of course.) I always thought "Lay Lady Lay" was by one of those pre-rock singers from the sixties like Johnny Rivers or something.-clint On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 6:06 PM, Michael Paz wrote: Joni STILL crushes him in EVERY category AND she is cute AND she actually can sing! AND....... she brushes her teeth!! He is a great poet. And I love the way other people cover his songs. LMAO There I said it. On Aug 18, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: I've been thinking about saying this for about 24 hours and I guess I should just say it: Dylan, in my opinion, is the Shakespeare of Rock & Roll.B You can hate his voice, you can hate his guitar playing, you can hate him changing every 5 seconds, you can hate his incoherence every other show you go to, but as Joni said, he changed songwriting forever, and also gave her the opening to write songs about how she was really feeling.B That's despite the fact that she thinks he's a plagiarist!B I don't think anyone can have a neutral opinion about the guy, he's one of a kind, and most of the people on that list would not have had the chance to get on it without him. There, I said it. Sue Tierney McNamara Email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:48:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Jeff Clark Subject: Re: Joni #9 in Rolling Stone songwriters list Susan E. McNamara wrote: > You can hate his voice, you can hate his guitar playing, > That's despite the fact that she thinks he's a plagiarist! > There, I said it. My favorite Dylan songs are written by Dylan and sung by Fairport Convention, eg., Percy's Song, I'll Keep it With Mine, etc. I do enjoy the obliqueness of his lyrics and I like reading interviews with him just like with Joni. His recent interview in AARP was quite good. (that would be my Father's copy!)I've always been of the persuasion that Joni's post-70's career is inarguably (ie., definitive, not to be contested) stronger, more interesting and consistent than anyone else who began recording in the 60's and is still around, though to be fair I've haven't heard everything by Dylan, Neil, Jackson, Van, etc. Joni really has not turkeys in her career. Maybe a ham, but not a turkey.Jeff NP: B Jason Isbell, 24 Frames ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:41:22 -0400 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Mr Dylan (NJC) I agree with everything my friend Sue Mac said about His Bobness. I think there are other things that affect his place in the pantheon. As someone who turned 14 in 1963, I remember very well the impact of songs like "Blowin' in the Wind", "The Times They Are a'Changin" (in their PP & M versions) and "Masters of War" had on a society that was going through the civil rights movement and heading into the anti-Vietnam war protests. They were songs that stirred a big swath of the younger population, and many of the older, too. Bob also served as a connection between the Beats of the '50s and the hippies of the '60s, as, on a much different scale, Neal Cassady did. A very obvious example being Allen Ginsberg in the "Subterranean Homesick Blues" video, the very title of which referenced Jack Kerouac's "The Subterraneans. So I think much of Bob's stature comes out of a remembrance of the larger, transformative role he played in society, rather than strictly as a singer/ songwriter/musician. My thoughts on a cloudy, but not rainy :( morning. *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@ca.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:52:49 -0400 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: Black Crow It's a variation of a minor blues, as "Raised on Robbery" is a (more radical) variation of a major blues. DAVID LAHM On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 11:20 AM, wrote: > And when Dave and the Mutts did it in their Hejira tribute their version > featuring a jaw-dropping electric guitar solo by Jamie Kime who also > played with Zappa Does Zappa. Another great night. I think it's the ENERGY > of this song that draws people to it among many other components. > > Dave, any thoughts from you regarding this arrangement/performance? > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any and all > computers and other devices. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:12:48 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Mr Dylan (NJC) Thanks for the Beat Generation connection Steve ... we used to call ourselves Dharma Bums in high school. :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Steve Dulson [mailto:tinkersown@ca.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:41 AM To: joni@smoe.org Cc: Susan E. McNamara Subject: Mr Dylan (NJC) I agree with everything my friend Sue Mac said about His Bobness. I think there are other things that affect his place in the pantheon. As someone who turned 14 in 1963, I remember very well the impact of songs like "Blowin' in the Wind", "The Times They Are a'Changin" (in their PP & M versions) and "Masters of War" had on a society that was going through the civil rights movement and heading into the anti-Vietnam war protests. They were songs that stirred a big swath of the younger population, and many of the older, too. Bob also served as a connection between the Beats of the '50s and the hippies of the '60s, as, on a much different scale, Neal Cassady did. A very obvious example being Allen Ginsberg in the "Subterranean Homesick Blues" video, the very title of which referenced Jack Kerouac's "The Subterraneans. So I think much of Bob's stature comes out of a remembrance of the larger, transformative role he played in society, rather than strictly as a singer/ songwriter/musician. My thoughts on a cloudy, but not rainy :( morning. *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@ca.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 09:40:08 -0400 From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2015 #433 I sent this from the wrong mailbox; re-submitting... In response to Les Irvin's link to Dulcimuse: http://dulcimuse.com/podcast/resource/002.html The link to Dulcimuse was another vein of gold. Having no musical background, I didnbt consider the effect of Jonibs work among other musicians. All I knew, the first time I heard the Blue album, is that it would last a lifetime. It has everything. With this focus on the dulcimer, though b and with a thought from Anitabs paper, where she said that none of the respondents in her survey mentioned rhythm as a foremost point b likewise, I would not have thought to mention the dulcimer songs in the Blue album because they are so intrinsic. Those are the songs that engage me to spontaneously sing harmony, start popping my fingers and, pretty much always, end up doing some little dance for joy. Thank you so much for that link! Pete C. - -----Original Message----- From: JMDL Digest Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 1:03 AM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2015 #433 JMDL Digest Sunday, August 16 2015 Volume 2015 : Number 433 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Joni's introduction to the dulcimer [Les Irvin ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:02:59 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Joni's introduction to the dulcimer http://dulcimuse.com/podcast/resource/002.html - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2015 #433 ***************************** - ------- To post messages to the list,sendto joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:15:55 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Black Crow Also, I just wanted to say that when we were at the SFJazz Center tribute in San Francisco, Kurt Elling and Brian Blade's band KILLED this song. Jeff Haynes on percussion was a MAD MAN!! :) From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:09 AM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: 'joni@smoe.org' Subject: Re: Black Crow Well of course I love love love this song. It's such a ROCKER even given that there are no drums on it. There lots of great covers of it that rock it out even further. I'm a sucker for a great guitar riff and this one is one of her catchiest. It also starts with that crazy high note...THERE'S a crow flying...another rambling thought, the lyric "diving down to pick up on every shining thing" comes into my head all the time. Bob NP: Quiet Company, "I Heard The Devil Say My Name" From: "Susan E. McNamara" > To: "'joni@smoe.org'" >, Date: 08/20/2015 10:53 AM Subject: Black Crow Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org ________________________________ I'm practicing Black Crow on my new (to me) electric guitar, and I realized that there are no drums on this song, and the rhythm is all Joni. Both Jaco and Larry Carlton seem to be working on flourishes. I find it amazing and pretty daunting although I am pushing on!!! Would love to hear other ideas about this fabulous song! Sue Tierney McNamara Email: sem8@cornell.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 22:01:29 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Black Crow > On Aug 20, 2015, at 8:20 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > Dave, any thoughts from you regarding this arrangement/performance? Well Ibve always thought it strange that the one tune on Hejira that kind of begs for drums has no drums. Also, we know that Jaco was added after Hejira had been ostensibly finished, so Black Crow may have been just guitar and voice at one point, or had some other bpicket fenceb bass playing on it. Jaco and Larry really take this tune into space. That wailing guitar distortion was not one of Larry Carltonbs usual tones, who typically went for smooth and bluesy sounds. The tune is in Eb minor and Jaco had to tune his bass down a half step to be able to grab those cool minor second harmonics (C and Db) which he was kind of famous for. The rhythm guitar tuning has an ultra low Bb on the bottom string which goes wildly sharp as soon as you pluck it so the guitar sound has its own bblack and raggedb thing, in characteristic Joni tone painting style. When we recorded it we kept all those elements and added the drums I always felt should have been there. Dave ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2015 #441 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendto joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------