From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2015 #400 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 4 2015 Volume 2015 : Number 400 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: JMDL Digest V2015 #388 ["Susan E. McNamara" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 16:44:28 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2015 #388 Yeah! I can't wait for this discussion!! 29 days! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Laurie Antonioli Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 11:52 AM To: JMDL Cc: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2015 #388 We can have a big discussion at the JoniFest on "what jazz is" and "why singers turn to jazz" later in their careers. I have many theories. FACT: Joni was heavily influenced by Annie Ross (who wrote the lyrics to "Twisted" which she of course recorded) and loves Ellington and Miles. These are influences she had before she transitioned and started hiring jazz musicians to work with her. If she was listening to Lambert, Hendricks & Ross (I worshiped at the alter of LHR and still do) as a young woman, for sure that has informed her music. Also the style and lyrics of vocalese (setting lyrics to pre-existing, recorded instrumental solos) is a very stream of consciousness kind of style. Note: "Twisted" is a horn solo by tenor saxophonist Wardell Grey who Annie then wrote words to. Vocalese is very clever, often funny, fearless and complex. Sound like anyone we know? : ) Laurie On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 8:29 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 4 2015 Volume 2015 : Number 388 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: TodaysZaman.com: Why Do Pop Singers Keep Releasing Jazz Albums? > [Clin] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:27:13 +0000 (UTC) > From: Clint Norwood > Subject: Re: TodaysZaman.com: Why Do Pop Singers Keep Releasing Jazz > Albums? > > I completely understand what you are saying about jazz.I think that > the Linda Ronstadt/Sinatra kind of thing is called "jazz" a lot > because its style coincided with the early jazz age in America. If you > turn on the "jazz channel" here in Memphis you will get a lot of show > tunes and Sinatra-esque stuff. I think the word "jazz" is used to > cover a lot of music that seems like it wouldn't offend "older" > people. How things have changed! > To me, (drum roll) I think jazz is a piece of music that has a basic > head (like the beginning of Miles Davis' "So What!") but the rest of > the tune has nothing but very broad chord charts to arrange the rest > of the "song." In this way there is no melody excepting the beginning > head. The rest of the tune (solos and trade offs between the > musicians) must be played over those broad chord charts and the > musicians can do anything they like to go with the music. > In this way there is far less structure than the typical song but it > makes the musicians communicate with each other in a way I don't think > others have to do because it is not pre-decided. > Remember also that show tunes and other pop songs can be made into jazz. > "My > Favorite Things" was turned into a jazz piece by Coltrane but I doubt > that anyone who doesn't hear the opening head "Raindrops on Roses" > etc., would recognize it.-Clint > > > > On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 8:28 AM, Catherine McKay > wrote: > > > Mark, as always, you express what I'm thinking so much better than I > could myself. I agree that Joni did "Mingus" at Charles Mingus's > request, and that she likely hadn't thought of going that far into > jazz before that. I also agree with Muller that some of Joni's best > singing was on the "Mingus" > album, > with "Sweet sucker dance" being the best of the best. > > > I haven't heard the Annie Lennox one and have deliberately stayed away > from it, because it does seem that *everyone* wants to do a "jazz" > album, but I suspect you are right and that Annie's isn't really jazz > either. As well, I don't think Linda Rondstadt's Nelson Riddle recordings were jazz either. > They > were more like big band pop, or whatever you want to call it, the kind > of thing that was popular in the 40s. If it ain't rock'n'roll, do > people just say it's jazz? > > > and that led me to, "What the heck is jazz anyway?" which is why I > stayed out of this to start with. I started wandering down the "What > is jazz" road and got lost on the way. > > > > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Scott > To: Susan E. McNamara ; joni@smoe.org > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 12:16 AM > Subject: Re: TodaysZaman.com: Why Do Pop Singers Keep Releasing JazzB > Albums? > > Interesting that the writer didn't mention the 'Both Sides Now' CD > which, to my mind anyway, is more along the lines of what she was > writing about.B To me, 'Mingus' was Joni picking up the gauntlet that > Mingus threw down, accepting the challenge, not about doing a Jazz > album as a novelty item to revive a career.B As the writer mentioned, > Joni was pretty much riding the crest of her popularity at the time.B > The fact that she paid for it in terms of a loss of some of her radio > airplay and fan base is not a really valid comment on the quality of > the work. > > [...] > > The writer mentions Linda Ronstadt's recordings with the Nelson Riddle > orchestra.B Would you call Nelson Riddle a jazz artist?B I think of > his work more as very sophisticated pop than Jazz and I think of > Linda's vocals on those records in the same way. > > Mark in Seattle > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2015 #388 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendto joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by > clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2015 #400 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendto joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------