From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #677 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 9 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 677 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Raised on Robbery-Shadows & Light [Betsy Blue ] Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #675 [Randy Remote ] Re: (NJC) Who's still here [Lori Renee Fye ] Re: BBC Radio 2 [Michael Paz ] Re: CMIARS/Now Shine too [Rick Hobbs-Seeley ] Re: Who's still here NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: CMIARS/Now Shine too [Lori Renee Fye ] Re: CMIARS/Now Shine too [Lori Renee Fye ] Re: Who's still here NJC [lawntreader@googlemail.com] BBC Radio 2 [lawntreader@googlemail.com] Re: Who's still here NJC [Dave Blackburn ] Re: CMIARS/Shine [Garret ] Re: Who's still here [Catherine McKay ] Re: Who's still here NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: CMIARS/Shine [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 17:16:56 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Raised on Robbery-Shadows & Light The audio, or maybe just the singing, from Raised on Robbery seems to have been overdubbed, with visual cuts covering as well as possible. I know the story of camera failures necessitating the odd edits in this concert video. Does anyone know about sound problems? Was Joni not happy with her own singing in parts? Were other parts of the concert overdubbed? Thanks in advance to the sound experts and Joni experts. Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 16:50:11 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #675 Coyote is about playwright Sam Shephard, the songs on FTR are about James Taylor, so I assume WOHAM is. RR wrote: I concur with John. I love most all Joni's work, even her grouchy ones. > > By the way, does anyone know who she wrote Coyote, and, Woman of Heart and > Mind for, or what males she had in mind that inspired the songs? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 19:04:00 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Who's still here Catherine wrote: > I've always preferred this format over the chat room > or message boards type, and Facebook seems > more like the message board type. I can't see > many people posting long philosophical discussions > about Joni (or anything else, for that matter) on > Facebook I had to chuckle when I read that, Catherine, because I can (and do) go on and On and ON on Facebook sometimes. Oh hell, to be honest I do that kind of often. Those posts tend to be about politics, though, and aren't you glad we're not discussing politics here anymore? (I think political discussions might've been the reason we ended up adding the NJC tag/filter.) However, for "Joni" posts, I prefer this format -- and this particular list - -- better, too. We still have to fuss with getting people to trim digests from their replies, and my particular pet peeve is that people don't change the subject from "Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #100" or whatever, but neither of those things are deal breakers for me. I've never liked "forum" message boards. They're just too difficult for me to navigate. I need something that "flows," and this list does that most of the time. I am *thrilled* that so many people have been writing here over the last few days. It's nice to meet the newcomers, and it's nice to finally meet a few of the lurkers who've been here all along but never posted before now. And of course it's wonderful to see posts from some of the "old timers" who haven't been posting much lately either. I've been off and on with my s*ubscription here, but it's good to be back. I see a lot of you on Facebook but I prefer the feel of this "secret place." Lori Caldwell, Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 21:08:00 -0400 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: BBC Radio 2 Happy BIrthday Babee!! I am in Washington DC and get to hang out with my pal Sherelle tomorrow. I am raising my martini glass towards jolly old UK and toasting you tonight. Hope you had a wonderful day and can't wait to see you guys. Love Paz P.S> BTW I am right behind you come next March.... On May 8, 2014, at 5:39 PM, lawntreader@googlemail.com wrote: Well, they played "Help Me", "Coyote" and "A Case of You" with some old Joni chat about painting with words that we have all heard before, but an unexpected Joni treat on my big day. Of course the biggest birthday treat around this time for me has been to experience all the energy around here once again. Lori, you should leave more often if this is what happens when you come back :-)) I have been so touched by so many of the beautiful posts about this place and the people here. It's another day when I have felt so blessed, and part of those blessings is being in this space with you, Love Anita (SLS, Birthday Princess for one hour twenty minutes more) > > > Yayyyyy it is my birthday and I am now 60! Can you believe that I have BBC Radio 2 on, sitting with a glass of New Zealand Blanc and they have just announced they are going to explore the lyrical content of the music of Joni Mitchell. Fancy that on my birthday! > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 20:24:29 -0700 From: Rick Hobbs-Seeley Subject: Re: CMIARS/Now Shine too Yes, I'm still here too. Albeit, the worst Lister of the bunch. I lurk the lurkers. Anywho. The CMIAR chat has been so interesting to me. It was actually the album that brought me back to Joni after a Mingus-imposed hiatus. I heard Snakes and Ladders on our spanking new radio station in LA called the WAVE - which still exists. I couldn't believe it was Joni. To me, she sounded so current and with it. I bought the CD, moved it to cassette and loaded it on my Walkman. My Secret Place came to symbolize my favorite beach in California ironically located by a nuclear power plant. CMIAR motivated me to look back to my period of ignoring her output -- Mingus to CMIAR and I now have passion for those mid career albums, including Mingus. It also set forth my passion for all that came after. I loved that she embraced the trends of the day and made her own beautiful way with all - realizing she had to sell records to survive life's demands. Then we come to Shine. Whomever said it sounded like she went into her garage and produced something organic was right in my mind. It did win a little Grammy, and I hope that resonated with her - it did for me. The artists' artist. We are blessed. Love, Coyote Rick - excited about spending time with my first JMDL friend, Kakki, tomorrow night. Sent from my iPhone >> On May 8, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Lori Renee Fye wrote: > > While I am not a big fan of any of Joni's post-WTRF albums I sort of read that as "any of Joni's post WTF albums." LOL ... and I like WTRF! Count me among the casualties of the internet/texting age, I guess. I'm still a huge fan of DED, but that album was very important to me when it came out and I was stationed in Germany and surrounded by so many people who had distinctly opposite opinions from mine about so many things. CMIARS was just "eh" for me for the most part, although I actually like "Dancin' Clown," although I'd be hard-pressed to explain why. NRH was a delight for me, as was TI. Then came Hits and Misses, which were sort of pointless for me to buy except for "Urge for Going," which doesn't stand out for me as favorite song but I was glad to have it. Since then, though, it just seems as if Joni entered into a slump. TTT, with the exception of maybe two or three songs (mainly "Harlem in Havana" and "Man from Mars" -- although I was sort of bummed that she was singing about her cat; I understand loving a pet but ... whatever), was just disappointing to me. That was probably due in part to having been a member of this list for about a year and all the anticipation among us for a new album, and then it just not being what I'd hoped it would be. I can completely understand Joni using the Roland VG-8 on stage (as she did at the Jazz & Heritage Festival in New Orleans in 1995), but I don't understand using it in a studio setting. I liked BSN and Travelogue, but I was fortunate enough to be able to see Joni during the BSN tour, so I "got" what she was doing with the various orchestras. I didn't buy any of the subsequent boxed sets, as I already own every studio and live album of Joni's in several formats. And then came Shine ... and I'm listening to it now, just to be fair ... and it just doesn't cut it for me. It just seems empty or something. And that makes me sad, which is probably why I don't listen to it more often. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:10:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Who's still here NJC I agreed with your assessment, but didn't want to just say, "Yep." There is that fast-paced dada-dada-dada-dada etc stuff going on when she sings, "She dances for the sailors in a smoky cabaret..." and so on that sounds rhythmically similar to these ears. And then there's the obvious title of the song. When Joni was a kid, Canada was very much part of The Empire and anything English was superior and the Queen's portrait hung in every classroom (still does, as far as I know). CBC was the only radio (and TV, but I don't think Joni's family owned a TV while she was young) available, and I'm sure Gilbert and Sullivan's music was played frequently and wouldn't be surprised if Joni's family had recordings of their operettas. Happy birthday, Princess! >________________________________ > From: "lawntreader@googlemail.com" >To: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" >Cc: Catherine McKay ; joni >Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 4:46:49 PM >Subject: Re: Who's still here NJC > > >Y.folks seem to get frustrated when no one replies to their >> posts and feel like no one is reading them. What we've seen over the past >> few days is that is just not the case. > >Can I dig up my no reaction post (only because it's my birthday :-)) about the Pirate of Penance from last week and ask if anyone else thought Joni has listened to Gilbert and Sullivan's "Model of a Modern Major General" from the Pirates of Penzance as rhythmic inspiration for her PoP ? >Love >The Birthday Princess > > > > > > >> >> Bob >> >> NP: Neil Finn, "Turn and Run" >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person >> or entity to which it is addressed and may contain >> proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. >> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are >> hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, >> distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon >> this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. >> >> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >> sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. >> - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 19:56:22 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: CMIARS/Now Shine too Okay, as I listen, there's one definite song on Shine that stands out for me: "Night of the Iguana." That's some good stuff. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 19:41:59 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: CMIARS/Now Shine too > While I am not a big fan of any of Joni's post-WTRF albums I sort of read that as "any of Joni's post WTF albums." LOL ... and I like WTRF! Count me among the casualties of the internet/texting age, I guess. I'm still a huge fan of DED, but that album was very important to me when it came out and I was stationed in Germany and surrounded by so many people who had distinctly opposite opinions from mine about so many things. CMIARS was just "eh" for me for the most part, although I actually like "Dancin' Clown," although I'd be hard-pressed to explain why. NRH was a delight for me, as was TI. Then came Hits and Misses, which were sort of pointless for me to buy except for "Urge for Going," which doesn't stand out for me as favorite song but I was glad to have it. Since then, though, it just seems as if Joni entered into a slump. TTT, with the exception of maybe two or three songs (mainly "Harlem in Havana" and "Man from Mars" -- although I was sort of bummed that she was singing about her cat; I understand loving a pet but ... whatever), was just disappointing to me. That was probably due in part to having been a member of this list for about a year and all the anticipation among us for a new album, and then it just not being what I'd hoped it would be. I can completely understand Joni using the Roland VG-8 on stage (as she did at the Jazz & Heritage Festival in New Orleans in 1995), but I don't understand using it in a studio setting. I liked BSN and Travelogue, but I was fortunate enough to be able to see Joni during the BSN tour, so I "got" what she was doing with the various orchestras. I didn't buy any of the subsequent boxed sets, as I already own every studio and live album of Joni's in several formats. And then came Shine ... and I'm listening to it now, just to be fair ... and it just doesn't cut it for me. It just seems empty or something. And that makes me sad, which is probably why I don't listen to it more often. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 22:13:31 +0100 From: lawntreader@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Who's still here NJC Catherine, you have spoiled me! Thank you, A xxx > On 8 May 2014, at 22:10, Catherine McKay wrote: > > I agreed with your assessment, but didn't want to just say, "Yep." There is that fast-paced dada-dada-dada-dada etc stuff going on when she sings, "She dances for the sailors in a smoky cabaret..." and so on that sounds rhythmically similar to these ears. And then there's the obvious title of the song. When Joni was a kid, Canada was very much part of The Empire and anything English was superior and the Queen's portrait hung in every classroom (still does, as far as I know). CBC was the only radio (and TV, but I don't think Joni's family owned a TV while she was young) available, and I'm sure Gilbert and Sullivan's music was played frequently and wouldn't be surprised if Joni's family had recordings of their operettas. > > Happy birthday, Princess! > > > From: "lawntreader@googlemail.com" > To: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" > Cc: Catherine McKay ; joni > Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 4:46:49 PM > Subject: Re: Who's still here NJC > > Y.folks seem to get frustrated when no one replies to their > > posts and feel like no one is reading them. What we've seen over the past > > few days is that is just not the case. > > Can I dig up my no reaction post (only because it's my birthday :-)) about the Pirate of Penance from last week and ask if anyone else thought Joni has listened to Gilbert and Sullivan's "Model of a Modern Major General" from the Pirates of Penzance as rhythmic inspiration for her PoP ? > Love > The Birthday Princess > > > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Neil Finn, "Turn and Run" > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 21:37:59 +0100 From: lawntreader@googlemail.com Subject: BBC Radio 2 Yayyyyy it is my birthday and I am now 60! Can you believe that I have BBC Radio 2 on, sitting with a glass of New Zealand Blanc and they have just announced they are going to explore the lyrical content of the music of Joni Mitchell. Fancy that on my birthday! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:06:59 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Who's still here NJC Happy birthday Anita!!! See you very soon! On May 8, 2014, at 1:46 PM, lawntreader@googlemail.com wrote: > Y.folks seem to get frustrated when no one replies to their >> posts and feel like no one is reading them. What we've seen over the past >> few days is that is just not the case. > > Can I dig up my no reaction post (only because it's my birthday :-)) about the Pirate of Penance from last week and ask if anyone else thought Joni has listened to Gilbert and Sullivan's "Model of a Modern Major General" from the Pirates of Penzance as rhythmic inspiration for her PoP ? > Love > The Birthday Princess > > > > > > >> >> Bob >> >> NP: Neil Finn, "Turn and Run" >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person >> or entity to which it is addressed and may contain >> proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. >> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are >> hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, >> distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon >> this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. >> >> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >> sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 19:16:43 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: CMIARS/Shine It has been nice to see more than a cursory Joni related thread:) I don't think I have ever been able to actually listen to CMIARS. I think it's awful. I don't think WTRF and DED are much better. They each have songs that I really like; I could make one album that I would like from the three of those. I fully intend to give CMIARS some attention given the recent conversation. I have tried to listen to TTT and I think it's one of her weakest. TI, however, I adore and parts of NRH are just great. Shine, on the other hand, I still quite like. I was surprised when it was released as I had long assumed that JM just didn't have it in her to write another decent album (although I still hope that someone like Jack White might give her a shout and throw us something as great as Van Lear Rose). I used to listen to it travelling from Luton to Milton Keynes on the National Express when visiting the other half, so I have one of those indescribable connections with it that may go beyond the music. I agree with others that the production on Shine lacks a lot, but I actually like a lot of the songs. I secretly hope that someone will take it and turn it into something that feels more organic, if that makes any sense. I always skip the opening track which I think is a dreadful bore and I see BYT as pointless although a bit of fun. There is merit in the rest if it, IMO. It doesn't touch the pre 1980 albums (+ TI). It has been said on here that a weak JM album is better than most artist's albums. What do people think? Garret NP - Perfume Genius, Gay Angels On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > I also see this song as an update to Shadows and Light in a way. The > contrasts between kids playing and bombs exploding a half a mile away ... > the > churches and the prisons they own ... plus this phrase is how I feel right > now > > Shine on the pioneers > Those seekers of mental health > Craving simplicity > They travel inward > Past themselves ... may all their little lights shine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 05:14:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Who's still here I have to agree with you there. I've always preferred this format over the chat room or message boards type, and Facebook seems more like the message board type. I can't see many people posting long philosophical discussions about Joni (or anything else, for that matter) on Facebook, which lends itself more to the "Here's stuff about me and why my life is more wonderful/crappier than yours; support this cause, oh, and this one, too; here's a picture of a cat" kind of thing and to the ADHD side of anyone's personality. It was a very long, cold winter for many of us, at least in the north and the east, and even here in the Big Smoke, where it's now kinda-sorta spring because things are budding and blooming and I bravely put the winter boots and things away, but it's still much cooler and generally cloudier than it would normally be. I keep reminding people that, before long, we're all going to be bitching about how hot and humid it is. >________________________________ > From: Rob Procyk >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 1:10:42 AM >Subject: Who's still here > > > the JMDL is the only place that feels like "home." Even though many of us are friends on Facebook and have lots of fun on there, I don't follow the Joni discussions on there, really. I love when I see JMDL emails in my inbox. This is the place for Joni discussions for me. So long story short, I'm still here. And as my fellow Saskatchewan comrade Kate stated, it's the shittiest Saskatchewan winter and spring I can remember, apart from my first Sask winter in 1981-82. I'd run like Joni too, if I could, although there's something about this place! > that just sticks to you in ways I could never explain. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 12:11:06 -0400 (EDT) From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Who's still here NJC I also agree. I just don't have the time to read a lot of the posts, and even less time to comment on them. For the record Lori, I'm still on the list since 1998. Jimmy In a message dated 5/8/2014 11:00:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com writes: > Agree. While this format seems old school now, it serves the purpose for > more lengthy in-depth discussion. It would be nice if there was a "like" > button though.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:38:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: CMIARS/Shine Garret, what a fine fine post. So I'm curious...what tracks would your "1 good album" from the 80's be? As to this statement: Depends on how you define it, but generally speaking I'd MUCH rather listen to a strong album by anyone over a weak album of Joni's. There are moments of pleasure in all of her weaker albums but I'd always prefer something I totally dig as opposed to something where I have to tolerate the majority of it. Jack White producing Joni...what a fantasy. His work with Loretta Lynn was stellar. I still say that Daniel Lanois could make a good record with Joni. I've listened a LOT to Croz, the 2014 release from David Crosby. This record SOUNDS great, the production is really segmented and clear. I can't say why like Dave can, all I can say is that compared to Shine this record sounds spectacular. Perhaps not a masterwork by Crosby but the production goes such a long way to making something I want to hear as opposed something to avoid. Bob NP: Loreena McKennitt, "The Mummers Dance" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #677 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------