From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #2143 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 27 2015 Volume 2014 : Number 2143 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Who changed the words? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Joni at Prince's party inspires actress ["Allison Crowe Music" ] Music & The internet [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Music & The internet NJC [Dave Blackburn ] Grateful [lcs4bike@yahoo.com] Re: Music & The internet NJC [Les Irvin ] Re: Music & The internet (NJC) [Lori Renee Fye ] Grateful [lcs4bike@yahoo.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2131 [carmel rotem ] Re: Is it "screamers" or "screeners" in FMIP? [Bob Muller ] Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2131 [carmel rotem ] RE: Is it "screamers" or "screeners" in FMIP? ["kimberly" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 08:43:53 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Who changed the words? Hi Sally - I didn't provide any links in my post. Not sure what you're wanting a link to? Bob NP: Suzanne Vega, "Small Blue Thing" (hard to believe this song is from 30 years ago!) From: Sally To: Anita Gabrielle , Cc: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" , Jim L'Hommedieu , JMDL Date: 04/24/2015 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Who changed the words? I missed this link! Can someone help a woman out? Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Apr 24, 2015, at 3:31 PM, Anita Gabrielle wrote: >> I won't even mention Billy Squier's cover of River - he starts with "It's >> comin' on twilight" and goes recklessly astray from there. >> Bob > > Wasn't that Squier's famous BSN Zombie River Cut: > " It's coming on twilight > They're cutting off knees.... > > "Oors and Ploors of angel hair" > > And bing bong dung hills in the square? > I don't think I've laughed so much for a while. > Anita - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 23:38:42 -0700 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: Joni at Prince's party inspires actress A fun mention in the press - which I spotted, by chance, at the gym today in the April 2015 edition of "Fashion" magazine (a Canadian magazine about, indeed, fashion). In a lengthy interview with Elisha Cuthbert, the actress mentions meeting Joni at Prince's house. I'd thought the piece may be online, but, all I can find is this excerpt: "When I met Joni Mitchell, I was dumbfoundedb& I cannot wait to get to a point when Ibm [Mitchellbs] age... She has no filter, shebs clever and shebs a genius. She has also reverted to not giving a damn about stupid things. Ibm excited for that time.b ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:19:30 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Torres and "Confessional" songwriters Excerpt from First Listen: Torres, 'Sprinter' on Npr.org: "Confessional" is a term often tossed around in discussions of singer-songwriters, but it's also one of the most misunderstood. In a recent interview, Mackenzie Scott, who makes music under the name Torres, called it "a four-letter word," common and pejorative, and overapplied to women in particular. But what does "confessional" even mean as an element of writing, considering that virtually every writer both taps into and goes beyond her own experience and insight in creating scenarios that others can comprehend? If Joni Mitchell was confessional when she wrote, "I met a woman, she had a mouth like yours," in a song about an ex-lover, isn't Bob Dylan, too, when he wails, "My warehouse eyes, my Arabian drums, should I leave them by your gate," about his ex-wife? Yet one is broadly considered a prophet, speaking for experience well beyond his own. The other, the woman, is categorized as more intimate; her equally poetic language has been dubbed something to identify with first, and only after doing so to call art. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:31:10 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Music & The internet This is subject that is of great interest to me - like most JMDLer's, I've been a consumer of music for the vast majority of my life and a lover of music as long as I can remember. Like most everything around us, the models have changed drastically in that time. The original model for me was buying vinyl albums and blank cassettes, recording the albums on tape so I could play them in my car or on the go or whatever. I would typically buy 8-12 albums a month. Records ranged from $5-$8 each and a case of GOOD blanks cost me around $15 or so, so at the time I was spending more or less $90.00/month on the recorded music of the time. That model worked from around 1973 to 1988, when I switched to CD's (buying many albums I already had on vinyl) but getting a product I could play at home or in the car or in a jambox. Record companies were in their heyday from the switch to digital as they were spending small amounts for CD's and selling them for around $15 a pop. I was still buying 8-12 albums on CD every month, sometimes less sometimes more. I can say that I did WAY LESS impulse buying of CD's. If a $5 vinyl record sucked, OK, but if a $12-16 CD sucked that was another thing. Obviously, I was earning at a higher rate in the late 80's and 90's then I was in the 70's and early 80's so some of those numbers are relative; still I was easily dropping more than $100/month for new music, sometimes borrowing CD's from friends and taping them because that was a free option and helped me to stretch my music dollars. Now, as we know, that model has blown up altogether. The internet made it possible to transfer the 1's and 0's of the digital product through the web. Then came smartphones, Itunes, downloads, streaming services and all hell has broken loose. If I wasn't a big music fan, I'd stream any one of a quadrillion internet radio stations out there, and stomach the ads or the constant pleas for support, but I AM a big music fan. I've always liked to be able to call the shots and listen to what *I* want to listen to without advertising or personalities begging for donations or, frankly, crappy music. I never illegally downloaded music but I have fully embraced the new model (I subscribe to Rhapsody for $9.99/month) and while I love it and it works perfectly and better than either of these older models I do feel guilty about the total frustration of artists to be able to be properly compensated for their work. One thing we do know is that the OLD model is not coming back. 2014 was the first year that streams outpaced downloads, and downloads have been pounding physical sales for awhile now. So where do we go from here? As stated above, I don't have an issue with spending a 3-digit number per month for getting access to the music I want (please don't share that with Rhapsody - ha!) but I DO realize that I'm an unusual outlier and most folks are content to use FREE Pandora or FREE Spotify to get their fix so if the PAID versions of the streaming services increased drastically I'm not sure that would solve the problem. Another option would be to follow the path of films; right now music is available on streaming services at THE SAME TIME as the stores. When I woke up last Tuesday, I instantly was enjoying the new Alabama Shakes record (which is 5-star excellent btw) and when I got to work I queued up the new Built To Spill (which is also 5-star excellent btw). What if I couldn't? If there's a movie I REALLY want to see I won't wait for it to become available on Netflix, I'll go to the theatre. VERY FEW films fit into this category however. By the same token, a couple artists I really like, Coldplay and Lucinda Williams, put out new records in 2014 that were NOT streamable at time of release. Coldplay's was released about 6 months later, and Lucinda's never has. I had no problem eschewing either of these records as direct purchases. Joni tributes notwithstanding, I only bought (1) CD last year from The Black Keys. The irony was that I hardly ever listened to it because I couldn't stream it. I'm not sure really what the point of all this rambling is other than to say that the current model is pretty awesome for consumers and pretty disastrous for the artists that aren't getting millions of hits per day. So the model will evolve - it has to in the same way it did from the Napster/Limewire/Kazaa era. I do know that wherever it goes I'll still be getting my share of new music, fair or otherwise. Bob NP: Suzanne Vega, "Knight Moves" Thanks, Jim for bringing this issue up. It's a real "situation." - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:38:00 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Music & The internet NJC Yes, Les, and to add to the just tour more argument, lets factor in two things: 1) A lot of incredible recorded music cant be reproduced live - from Sgt, Peppers onward, and 2) air fares and hotels cost FAR more than the gigs actually pay. The money from a gig is ONLY decent if you are already an established act, and when you play out of town, far from the reach of your mailing list, the draw is completely dependent upon the local press and buzz you can create from afar, which is usually negligible, unless you have had a hit. Remember - THE HIT IS THE COIN OF THE REALM - without that currency, almost nothing has value. Who is excited by an electrifying singer-songwriter who brings his/her roots into the present day and infuses them with verve and fire? Im not. Show me the HIT. Dave > On Apr 27, 2015, at 8:15 PM, Les Irvin wrote. > > I have, in the past, been guilty of downloading music without paying for it. I've rationalized it as "well, Van Morrison isn't gonna miss the $1.87 (I'm guessing) he'll get from me downloading the disc from iTunes". But being on this list with the Mutts and the Antoniolis and all the other artists, I tend to go back the other direction. It seems like an impossible situation for artists these days. > > Like the good 'ole vinyl days, I tend to still be attracted to a quality "tangible" product. Case in point, Dylan's official bootleg series. Any Dylan fan worth his/her salt has heard and owns all the bootleg stuff already, but the method in which the official releases are packaged adds an incredible value and is something one can't 'download' illegally. I bitched and moaned about the 6-CD Basement Tape set costing over $120, but when I saw the package - I had to have it - even though I could have downloaded all the tracks for zip. > > I'm offering no solution to the quandary. Just saying that a great 'analog' product that can't be downloaded packaged with the digital goods gets me every time. Something that's easy for Dylan to produce, no doubt, probably not so easy for the rest of us. > > On 4/27/2015 2:31 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >> This is subject that is of great interest to me - like most JMDLer's, I've >> been a consumer of music for the vast majority of my life and a lover of >> music as long as I can remember. Like most everything around us, the >> models have changed drastically in that time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:57:38 -0500 From: lcs4bike@yahoo.com Subject: Grateful For friendships made over appreciation of Joni's music. Not everybody gets Joni, but those who do are the nicest, most thoughtful, most talented, and most outspoken people on the planet! Joni is all gift and people here are like that too. With love, Laura Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:15:53 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Music & The internet NJC I have, in the past, been guilty of downloading music without paying for it. I've rationalized it as "well, Van Morrison isn't gonna miss the $1.87 (I'm guessing) he'll get from me downloading the disc from iTunes". But being on this list with the Mutts and the Antoniolis and all the other artists, I tend to go back the other direction. It seems like an impossible situation for artists these days. Like the good 'ole vinyl days, I tend to still be attracted to a quality "tangible" product. Case in point, Dylan's official bootleg series. Any Dylan fan worth his/her salt has heard and owns all the bootleg stuff already, but the method in which the official releases are packaged adds an incredible value and is something one can't 'download' illegally. I bitched and moaned about the 6-CD Basement Tape set costing over $120, but when I saw the package - I had to have it - even though I could have downloaded all the tracks for zip. I'm offering no solution to the quandary. Just saying that a great 'analog' product that can't be downloaded packaged with the digital goods gets me every time. Something that's easy for Dylan to produce, no doubt, probably not so easy for the rest of us. On 4/27/2015 2:31 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > This is subject that is of great interest to me - like most JMDLer's, I've > been a consumer of music for the vast majority of my life and a lover of > music as long as I can remember. Like most everything around us, the > models have changed drastically in that time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:41:08 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: Music & The internet (NJC) Great post, Bob. Didn't ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC take care of the royalty issues "back in the day"? Don't they still do that? I know ... the royalties from those organizations are pennies per play, if that, and I've often thought of those organizations as "the music mafia" (having had a run in with one or the other of them from time to time at a couple of places where I worked ... a mall ... a nightclub). I've often wondered if the streaming websites are having to pay those organizations, too. Does anyone know? Particularly in the case of www.radioparadise.com, I've wondered that. RP is about the only streaming website I listen to on any consistent basis. RP has no adds but does have some DJ commentary and of course the occasional fund raising drive. That fund raising drive is so occasional and so non-obnoxious (to me, anyway) that I don't mind when it occurs. Still, I wonder about ASCAP, et cetera, as it applies to streaming websites. I don't subscribe to Spotify, Rhapsody, Pandora, or any of those services. I'm not much of a fan of "listen to this artist you may like." I'm probably missing out on some great music (surely that's true) but I often sit in complete silence except for whatever sounds are outside of my house so ... there's that. When I buy recorded music now it's always a digital version, and I try to buy through the artist's website. I have to assume that at least helps the artist reap some financial compensation or they wouldn't bother to link to Amazon (ugh) or iTunes (less of an ugh but still ugh) or whatever. The main reason I buy digital music now is mainly because I'm trying to downsize. I still have a fair amount of vinyl and a fair number of CDs but I never, ever listen to them. They just sit around collecting dust. I listen to my iTunes/iPod most of the time. As for movies, there is literally nothing I "must" see as soon as it's released. I just don't care but then I'm not a big movie consumer anyway, never have been. (Friends are frequently something like appalled that I haven't seen [name any film] and that goes back decades.) I don't know the answer. I wish I did. I hate that performers aren't being fairly compensated. I don't give a rat's ass about producers being compensated; they seem to have been ripping off performers forever so feck producers and every other part of that machine, necessary though it may be. I stand by my comment of yesterday or whenever it was: I think performers will have to make up the difference in sales by touring. I just don't know any other way unless we want to start shutting down streaming sites and that's a slippery slope. Lori Caldwell, Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:57:38 -0500 From: lcs4bike@yahoo.com Subject: Grateful For friendships made over appreciation of Joni's music. Not everybody gets Joni, but those who do are the nicest, most thoughtful, most talented, and most outspoken people on the planet! Joni is all gift and people here are like that too. With love, Laura Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:03:23 +0000 (UTC) From: carmel rotem Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2131 Hi Steve, l also really like Paul Simon, and I think of him as an original musician and someone who's loyal to himself.I also imagine he likes Joni's music a lot.I was thinking that maybe Joni was a little insulted that "Graceland" was considered to be an album that brought the African rhythms B to popular music, when she was doing that years before... Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 15:10:04 -0400 From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Is it "screamers" or "screeners" in FMIP? You're right Mary. I recalled that immediately after I posted. I never had a job with a human phone screener, not now or in the 70's. But Geffen certainly would have. Mea culpa on that one. Bob Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Mary Pitassi wrote: > > On Apr 25, 2015, at 10:28 PM, kimberly wrote: > > "I'm pretty sure it's screamers, rhymes with dreamers." > > And now, to throw a monkey wrench in the machinery: B I used to sing this song fairly regularly, years ago. B And I'm pretty sure that I heard, and sang (drum roll, please): B "schemers," which certainly fits the song. > > That said, I defer to the actual lyrics. B ;-) > > Have a great tour, Kimberly! > > Mary P. > > P.S. B There were ways to screen calls in 1974, especially if you were a man (and you probably were a man) in Geffen's position. B They were called executive secretaries and administrative assistants. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:42:05 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: Music & The internet (NJC) ads* not adds. Just waking up here. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:03:23 +0000 (UTC) From: carmel rotem Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2131 Hi Steve, l also really like Paul Simon, and I think of him as an original musician and someone who's loyal to himself.I also imagine he likes Joni's music a lot.I was thinking that maybe Joni was a little insulted that "Graceland" was considered to be an album that brought the African rhythms B to popular music, when she was doing that years before... Carmel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 12:58:14 -0700 From: "kimberly" Subject: RE: Is it "screamers" or "screeners" in FMIP? Thanks so much, Mary. I greatly appreciate it. Now schemers hmm... that is an interesting twist. I'll listen more carefully and see what I truly hear when I'm not doing this all by cellular memory. Schemers rhymes well enough with dreamers. - -----Original Message----- From: Bob Muller [mailto:scjoniguy@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 12:10 PM To: Mary Pitassi Cc: kimberlyford@cox.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Is it "screamers" or "screeners" in FMIP? You're right Mary. I recalled that immediately after I posted. I never had a job with a human phone screener, not now or in the 70's. But Geffen certainly would have. Mea culpa on that one. Bob Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Mary Pitassi wrote: > > On Apr 25, 2015, at 10:28 PM, kimberly wrote: > > "I'm pretty sure it's screamers, rhymes with dreamers." > > And now, to throw a monkey wrench in the machinery: B I used to sing this song fairly regularly, years ago. B And I'm pretty sure that I heard, and sang (drum roll, please): B "schemers," which certainly fits the song. > > That said, I defer to the actual lyrics. B ;-) > > Have a great tour, Kimberly! > > Mary P. > > P.S. B There were ways to screen calls in 1974, especially if you were a man (and you probably were a man) in Geffen's position. B They were called executive secretaries and administrative assistants. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:38:20 -0600 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Yeah ... > Good! Glad to see you, Lori. You make a lie of "We all come and go unknown" :-)) (Anita) - --- > LMAO!! You are assimilated!! > > Welcome home babee! (Paz) - --- LOL ... Thanks, y'all. Love, peace, and all that jazz. Lori Caldwell, ID ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #2143 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------