From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #2006 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 13 2015 Volume 2014 : Number 2006 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2004 [Kevin Foehr ] Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2004/ Joni's illness [Anita Gabrielle ] Police again, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Globe and Mail [Anita Gabrielle ] Daisy, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:29:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Kevin Foehr Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2004 I love, honor, and cherish Joni, in sickness and in health, any kind of sickness. What it is doesn't matter. What matters is that she doesn't suffer and that gets healthy and happy again. From: JMDL Digest To: joni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 3:00 AM Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #2004 JMDL DigestB B B B Sunday, April 12 2015B B B B Volume 2014 : Number 2004 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- B Re: Globe and MailB B B B B B B B B B [Anne Sandstrom ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:24:31 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Globe and Mail One word - rubbish! What a dreadful piece of horrible writing. When I had endometriosis, nobody knew what it was and they thought it was "all in my head"B - and it may well be with Morgellons. As for people avoiding artists and entertainers with undesirable tendencies, seriously? What century does this guy live in??? Sheesh Lots of love, Anne Sent from my iPad > On Apr 11, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Michael Sentance wrote: > > I find solace in the digest as we await information. It's like being part > of a candlelight vigil. > > In the meantime, there is this unpleasant speculation from Toronto: > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/its-time-to-stop-tiptoeing-around-j > oni-mitchells-health-condition/article23883495/ > > Russell Smith: Itbs time to stop tiptoeing around Joni Mitchellbs health > condition > > RUSSELL SMITH > > Special to The Globe and Mail > > he media have been unusually careful about reporting Joni Mitchellbs > condition since she fell ill a couple of weeks ago. This is because people > love her songs, and because they love her as a symbol of emotional > sensitivity, of a certain idealistic age, of womenbs rights (since she > succeeded in a male, rock bnb roll-dominated era of popular music) and > perhaps of their own childhoods. > > So we are being extremely delicate in our reporting. No news items have > revealed what exactly caused her sudden hospitalization, but all have > mentioned that she bsuffers from Morgellons disease.b This is because > Mitchell herself described the affliction and used its name in an interview > in 2010. News stories may then carefully allude to the fact that this > bdiseaseb is bmysteriousb or even bcontroversial.b But the damage > is done: > The phrase bsuffers from Morgellonsb is quite simply inaccurate, and even > harmful, in that it perpetuates a delusion. > > Those who claim to be suffering from it are more likely suffering a > psychiatric illness, experts say. If thatbs the case with Mitchell, we > should really be saying she brevealed in 2010 that she suffers from > delusional parasitosis.b The name Morgellons was invented by a person who > is not a doctor and is not employed by any hospital, university or research > institution. It was intensely studied by the Centers for Disease Control > and Prevention in the United States, and the CDCbs conclusions, released in > 2012, were straightforward: Researchers found no common cause of the > disease, and say those who believe they have it have often self-diagnosed > after encountering websites that describe it. In other words, it is a > delusion that is spread by the Internet. > > The fact that newspapers are being so tactful about the possibility of > psychiatric disturbance in Mitchellbs case is incongruent with the > supposedly new attitudes about mental illness that are being trumpeted in > those same newspapers. Arenbt we constantly reading about how we should > bend the stigmab when it comes to mental illness? Arenbt we being told > that > there is no shame in psychiatric disorders, that their sufferers should not > be morally judged, that they should be open about their ailments? Wasnbt > that the goal of Bellbs massively hyped bLetbs Talkb campaign? If > there is > no shame in being depressed, why should we be afraid of the shame involved > in suffering from delusions? > > Furthermore, recent years have seen a spate of studies, articles and books > claiming a connection between mental illness and artistry or creativity. > These have been eagerly received by anyone who has ever felt down in the > dumps or nervous in an elevator; they have served to romanticize neurosis. > It turns out there is a slightly higher incidence of certain mood > disorders, such as depression and bipolar disorder, among professional > artists. Simultaneously, a popular idea identifies Aspergerbs syndrome as > an infallible indicator of genius. > > Cue the endless lists of b10 eccentric artistsb and b20 great writers > who > were drunks.b Michelangelo never washed, so your occasional weeping jags > and your fear of job interviews may mean you are actually a misunderstood > artistic genius. Being an bintrovertb suddenly became sexy; 100 Internet > quizzes bloomed, designed to show you that you were introverted. In fact, > anyone who isnbt actually sociopathic will obtain a high score on these > tests. They are designed to reassure you that you are actually sensitive > and may yet create your artistic masterwork. > > This popular connection between sadness and creativity plays into a > long-cherished myth of the artist as tortured, and it comforts everyone who > has ever written poems by saying they are actually hypersensitive, that > they are special. > > So why didnbt all these studies about the unusual and desirable craziness > of artists get trotted out in the Joni Mitchell case? Because her belief in > Morgellons is not sexy. Anxiety is romantic, depression is romantic. > Delusional parasitosis is just sad and worrying. > > There is another reason for our reluctance to cast the singer in a bad > light, and it is a particularly contemporary one. There has been a lot of > worrying lately b particularly after the child-abuse accusations made > against Woody Allen b about what artistsb personalities mean to our moral > relationship with their art. I thought this question had been resolved > centuries ago: Lots of artists did terrible things and held unacceptable > views, and we studied their work in university. No problem. > > But a new radicalism seems to have taken hold of the young on this issue. > There is now a sense that to digest a piece of art made by a bad person is > to digest his badness, to become contaminated by it. So we should avoid the > art of bad people. (Admittedly, the proponents of the theory are rather > selective in the artists they choose to blacklist for moral crimes: I have > not once ever heard anyone suggest a ban on the music of Michael Jackson, > for example.) > > If you start requiring your favourite artists to be good people, then you > start running into moral quandaries of your own. You find out too late, for > example, that they did something bad in their youth, or that they just > announced that they didnbt believe in feminism (as Joni Mitchell did in > 2013). Then you must affect all kinds of intellectual contortions to > justify that artistbs flaws, rather than just shrugging your shoulders and > saying, bWhat an idiot. Nice rhyme scheme, though.b > > Life would be easier for Mitchell fans if they didnbt have to tiptoe around > her condition. She may be a little unbalanced, or even highly neurotic b we > donbt know for sure. But either way, we can still love her songs. And if > shebs suffering from delusional parasitosis, it would in fact be more > compassionate to describe her as a victim of mental illness than to > preserve a fictitious persona. After all, her songs will live for much > longer than she does. - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #2004 ****************************** - ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:10:32 +0100 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2004/ Joni's illness > Bottom line - as technology continues to develop, more refined analysis is enabled- adding data from which to make sound conclusions, diagnosis and > treatment. Thanks for this Pavla, I hope you're right. But it's still flawed human beings who interpret data which can get twisted and turned to fit whatever hypothesis someone sets out to prove, especially if the research is paid for by drug companies. But here's to ethical scientists who have no problem in saying "This is what we have found. Right now, we don't know what it means." Maybe then we will have more diagnosis and treatments that are truly sound and seek to assist those who are suffering rather than pathologising and/or experimenting on them. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:09:02 -0400 From: Pavla Frazier Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #2004 Unfortunately, the person who wrote the article is not a medical researcher and seems to be asserting, at least in part, his conclusions. What does he know about medical conditions? There has been an historic tendency, distant, recent and current, to discount physiological problems and labeling them as being "all in one's head." Endometriosis, fibromyalgia, Lyme disease, even migraines, for recent examples. The further one goes back, one sees the correlation between lack of knowledge re: a condition and the too frequent attribution of a psychological or even a spiritual cause. So, in the benign ignorance and similarly benign arrogance of too many deemed capable of making such pronouncements, the unknown is attributed to being "all in one's head." That is, some (not all), in the medical community (what constitutes that is dependent upon the era) are not trained to say "I don't know, no conclusion or likely diagnosis until more data is available and analyzed." However, at the NIH there is an entire program for the study of undiagnosed conditions. https://www.genome.gov/27557990 Think of most diseases that the public has pretty good understanding of. The understanding of all disease goes through a phase of assessment, identification of core signs and symptoms, physiological processes, related conditions, effective treatment and outcomes. All of this takes time and disciplined scientific inquiry and process. Furthermore, "things that we held high and told ourselves were true, all start changing" with time and further analysis. This fully holds true in science and medicine! So, premature statements and jumping to conclusions by anyone, whether in the medical community or the press and misinterpretation of that is not useful is detrimental to the required scientific process. And potentially harmful to patients. Bottom line - as technology continues to develop, more refined analysis is enabled- adding data from which to make sound conclusions, diagnosis and treatment. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2015, at 3:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Sunday, April 12 2015 Volume 2014 : Number 2004 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Globe and Mail [Anne Sandstrom ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:24:31 -0400 > From: Anne Sandstrom > Subject: Re: Globe and Mail > > One word - rubbish! > > What a dreadful piece of horrible writing. When I had endometriosis, nobody knew what it was and they thought it was "all in my head" - and it may well be with Morgellons. As for people avoiding artists and entertainers with undesirable tendencies, seriously? What century does this guy live in??? > > Sheesh > > Lots of love, > Anne > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Apr 11, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Michael Sentance wrote: >> >> I find solace in the digest as we await information. It's like being part >> of a candlelight vigil. >> >> In the meantime, there is this unpleasant speculation from Toronto: >> >> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/its-time-to-stop-tiptoeing-around-j >> oni-mitchells-health-condition/article23883495/ >> >> Russell Smith: Itbs time to stop tiptoeing around Joni Mitchellbs health >> condition >> >> RUSSELL SMITH >> >> Special to The Globe and Mail >> >> he media have been unusually careful about reporting Joni Mitchellbs >> condition since she fell ill a couple of weeks ago. This is because people >> love her songs, and because they love her as a symbol of emotional >> sensitivity, of a certain idealistic age, of womenbs rights (since she >> succeeded in a male, rock bnb roll-dominated era of popular music) and >> perhaps of their own childhoods. >> >> So we are being extremely delicate in our reporting. No news items have >> revealed what exactly caused her sudden hospitalization, but all have >> mentioned that she bsuffers from Morgellons disease.b This is because >> Mitchell herself described the affliction and used its name in an interview >> in 2010. News stories may then carefully allude to the fact that this >> bdiseaseb is bmysteriousb or even bcontroversial.b But the damage >> is done: >> The phrase bsuffers from Morgellonsb is quite simply inaccurate, and even >> harmful, in that it perpetuates a delusion. >> >> Those who claim to be suffering from it are more likely suffering a >> psychiatric illness, experts say. If thatbs the case with Mitchell, we >> should really be saying she brevealed in 2010 that she suffers from >> delusional parasitosis.b The name Morgellons was invented by a person who >> is not a doctor and is not employed by any hospital, university or research >> institution. It was intensely studied by the Centers for Disease Control >> and Prevention in the United States, and the CDCbs conclusions, released in >> 2012, were straightforward: Researchers found no common cause of the >> disease, and say those who believe they have it have often self-diagnosed >> after encountering websites that describe it. In other words, it is a >> delusion that is spread by the Internet. >> >> The fact that newspapers are being so tactful about the possibility of >> psychiatric disturbance in Mitchellbs case is incongruent with the >> supposedly new attitudes about mental illness that are being trumpeted in >> those same newspapers. Arenbt we constantly reading about how we should >> bend the stigmab when it comes to mental illness? Arenbt we being told >> that >> there is no shame in psychiatric disorders, that their sufferers should not >> be morally judged, that they should be open about their ailments? Wasnbt >> that the goal of Bellbs massively hyped bLetbs Talkb campaign? If >> there is >> no shame in being depressed, why should we be afraid of the shame involved >> in suffering from delusions? >> >> Furthermore, recent years have seen a spate of studies, articles and books >> claiming a connection between mental illness and artistry or creativity. >> These have been eagerly received by anyone who has ever felt down in the >> dumps or nervous in an elevator; they have served to romanticize neurosis. >> It turns out there is a slightly higher incidence of certain mood >> disorders, such as depression and bipolar disorder, among professional >> artists. Simultaneously, a popular idea identifies Aspergerbs syndrome as >> an infallible indicator of genius. >> >> Cue the endless lists of b10 eccentric artistsb and b20 great writers >> who >> were drunks.b Michelangelo never washed, so your occasional weeping jags >> and your fear of job interviews may mean you are actually a misunderstood >> artistic genius. Being an bintrovertb suddenly became sexy; 100 Internet >> quizzes bloomed, designed to show you that you were introverted. In fact, >> anyone who isnbt actually sociopathic will obtain a high score on these >> tests. They are designed to reassure you that you are actually sensitive >> and may yet create your artistic masterwork. >> >> This popular connection between sadness and creativity plays into a >> long-cherished myth of the artist as tortured, and it comforts everyone who >> has ever written poems by saying they are actually hypersensitive, that >> they are special. >> >> So why didnbt all these studies about the unusual and desirable craziness >> of artists get trotted out in the Joni Mitchell case? Because her belief in >> Morgellons is not sexy. Anxiety is romantic, depression is romantic. >> Delusional parasitosis is just sad and worrying. >> >> There is another reason for our reluctance to cast the singer in a bad >> light, and it is a particularly contemporary one. There has been a lot of >> worrying lately b particularly after the child-abuse accusations made >> against Woody Allen b about what artistsb personalities mean to our moral >> relationship with their art. I thought this question had been resolved >> centuries ago: Lots of artists did terrible things and held unacceptable >> views, and we studied their work in university. No problem. >> >> But a new radicalism seems to have taken hold of the young on this issue. >> There is now a sense that to digest a piece of art made by a bad person is >> to digest his badness, to become contaminated by it. So we should avoid the >> art of bad people. (Admittedly, the proponents of the theory are rather >> selective in the artists they choose to blacklist for moral crimes: I have >> not once ever heard anyone suggest a ban on the music of Michael Jackson, >> for example.) >> >> If you start requiring your favourite artists to be good people, then you >> start running into moral quandaries of your own. You find out too late, for >> example, that they did something bad in their youth, or that they just >> announced that they didnbt believe in feminism (as Joni Mitchell did in >> 2013). Then you must affect all kinds of intellectual contortions to >> justify that artistbs flaws, rather than just shrugging your shoulders and >> saying, bWhat an idiot. Nice rhyme scheme, though.b >> >> Life would be easier for Mitchell fans if they didnbt have to tiptoe around >> her condition. She may be a little unbalanced, or even highly neurotic b we >> donbt know for sure. But either way, we can still love her songs. And if >> shebs suffering from delusional parasitosis, it would in fact be more >> compassionate to describe her as a victim of mental illness than to >> preserve a fictitious persona. After all, her songs will live for much >> longer than she does. > > --------------------------- > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 23:10:01 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Police again, njc I'm glad that a police officer was arrested for killing someone who was running away. As usual, the dead citizen was an unarmed, young black man. The struggle continues. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:41:23 +0100 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: Globe and Mail Mary wrote: "My mother, who was a nun for ten years as a very young woman, said that the graveyard at the convent was full of sisters who had died of imagination." This has to be one of the greatest quotes of all time! Totally brilliant and has put my smiley face back on. How must it have been to be Joni, over so long, for so many years finding words for the human condition for such a long time. Trawling the depths of one's psyche might well take a toll. I think I shall patent my own, brand new psychiatric condition and call it "Overinsightfulness" and suggest that's what Joni is suffering from or, perhaps, along with the nuns Mary's Mum knew, she is enduring the condition known as "Imagination" Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 23:14:59 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Daisy, njc I think Daisy is one of Kilauren/Kelly's kids, right? In the last picture I saw, she was about four years old. How long has it been? Jim ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #2006 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------