From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #183 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, February 9 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 183 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning [Dave Black] Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning ["Marian" <] Re: 15 fun facts about C&S [Betsy Blue ] Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning [Dave Black] Re: 15 fun facts about C&S [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [Michael Paz ] 15 fun facts about C&S [Betsy Blue ] Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 07:55:25 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning More thoughts on chord shapes Joni has said many times she has weakness in her hands from post-polio syndrome which caused her to seek chord shapes that were easy to play, so, a good rule of thumb is that the easiest ones to play are the right ones. She used a lot of one finger stops, and a few favored easy shapes that she slides up and down the neck to make her progressions. Her right hand technique, by contrast, is not simplistic at all, employing a wonderful combination of finger picking, simultaneous string plucking, up brush strums and backbeat slaps. Her right hand position should be in a textbook for correct technique: the thumb extended outward, the wrist raised but cocked downwards so the fingers meet the strings square on without diagonal scraping. She leaves the top two strings open very often so the Dawntreader tuning in the new book that substitutes a second string G for A should be pretty easy to hear that its wrong. She also has long slender hands so she used her left hand thumb a lot for bass notes. Her single most used chord shape seems to be like a first position Emajor shape with the thumb over the top to play the F# bass (visualized in standard tuning). Personally I finger it differently, but there are many videos of her playing this shape this way. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 09:34:05 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning Yes, thank you Les, for creating JMDL and a place for all the transcriptions, and thank you, Sue, for getting the guitar archive started in the first place! I really enjoyed working with Sue, Howard, and Mark getting the guitar transcriptions together. I only wish there were still more songs to transcribe, but the So Far in the new book makes me feel hopeful that there might be. I do not have my book yet, either, but it is hard to imagine that the tuning/chord shapes are anything other than what is in Tino Meinen's transcription in the website. Her transcription is so perfect, and I can remember what a thrill it was learning to play that song when I first found it in JMDL. It will be interesting to see what is in the songbook. I imagine there might be other oddities in there. Marian + + + + + + Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 04:30:10 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning Thanks Les for your very kind words and the space you have given us low these many years to make some of the most beautiful music in the world accessible to anyone who has the courage to try and play it ... And thanks so much to my compatriot transcribers for their hard work. I haven't gotten my book yet, Anita, but I know I've been playing The Way It Is (a song that is not in the book but is on the site transcribed by Marian) and Dawntreader lately in DGDDAD and it sounds right on to me. I agree with Les that if you really want to play these songs exactly how Joni plays it ... Watch the videos and listen to the recordings and get into her head and after a while you will notice that there are certain fingering shapes she would most likely not use. I'm sure I'll have more to say on this subject when the book is in hand. Take care, Sue Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 8, 2014, at 1:10 PM, "Les Irvin" wrote: > > The unfortunate aspect of all this is that the fan-based transcriptions > have, as Anita mentioned, yet to be properly recognized and respected. > The debate will probably never be resolved as to the "exact way" that Joni > played these - Joni doesn't remember, and it's certainly possible that > Joel may have - at times - inexact notes or memory. > > In questions like this re Dawntreader (I expect more of them to come up) > it's all about knowing what left-hand shapes Joni tends to use, what > shapes she would probably never use, listening for open strings, watching > video of Joni playing them, etc... I think the JoniMitchell.com team of > guitarists (primarily Sue, Marian, Howard, Dave, and Mark) are the best > suited people on the planet to know these details and assess the "correct" > way to play them. > > Hopefully someday they'll get the respect and recognition they deserve. > If it weren't for the pricey copyrights, I think they should write their > own book! For now, the transcriptions on the website are real good, for > free. > >> On 2/8/2014 10:10 AM, Anita G wrote: >> Joni thanks Joel Bernstein for preserving the tunings, which is great, >> but I was SO surprised that there was no mention of Sue, Marian, Mark >> Howard nor your good self, Dave, who have made the songs accessible >> to us minions. + + + + + + ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:18:36 -0800 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Re: 15 fun facts about C&S Ahh, you caught one, Bob. I'm a terrible proofreader, but I know when the narrative is wrong. Betsy the Humble On Feb 8, 2014 10:05 AM, "Bob Muller" wrote: > Well, if you wanted to make a correction you could say that Raised on > Robbery was released in 1973, not 1972. When I read that it didn't sound > right and some quick research confirmed it. Having said that, a fun little > read. > > Bob > > NP: John Butler Trio, "Wings Are Wide" > *From:* Betsy Blue > *To:* joni@smoe.org > *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:39 PM > *Subject:* 15 fun facts about C&S > > Unlike the 20 Things You Didn't Know from a few months ago, I actually > learned stuff instead of wanting to make corrections. > > > http://www.thatericalper.com/2014/01/16/40-years-ago-today-joni-mitchell-released-court-and-spark-here-are-15-fun-facts-about-the-album/ > > Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:51:02 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: The new Joni Tuning Book and a strange Dawntreader tuning I play it DGDDAD and it sounds right. On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:39 AM, Anita G wrote: > I have been looking through this book (which is absolutely brilliant) > and I think I may have spotted something that doesn't seem to work for > me and would welcome hearing what my fellow listers thinks. > > The wonderful 'Dawntreader' (all hail the mighty song) tuning is > listed as DGDDGD. Having refrained from playing it since ruining it at > French Joni Fest, today, as there was no-one around, I thought I'd > tune up and give it a go. Playing with the G at the top made it quite > peculiar on the shapes I was used to, so I re-checked on joni.com and > found a couple of versions, one by Thomas Morris (Tuning=DADF#AD) and > the one I used by Tino Meinen (DGDDAD) which makes much easier to > play. The tuning in the new book (with the G instead of the A at the > top) seems quite a faff to play. > > Does anyone (Sue, Dave, Marion and all you fine guitarists out there) > know which tuning Joni actually used to play The Dawntreader? And can > any of you play it as it is written in the new book with the G instead > if the A? > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:05:12 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: 15 fun facts about C&S Well, if you wanted to make a correction you could say that Raised on Robbery was released in 1973, not 1972. When I read that it didn't sound right and some quick research confirmed it. Having said that, a fun little read. Bob NP: John Butler Trio, "Wings Are Wide" ________________________________ From: Betsy Blue To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:39 PM Subject: 15 fun facts about C&S Unlike the 20 Things You Didn't Know from a few months ago, I actually learned stuff instead of wanting to make corrections. http://www.thatericalper.com/2014/01/16/40-years-ago-today-joni-mitchell-released-court-and-spark-here-are-15-fun-facts-about-the-album/ Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 13:30:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Thanks Jimmy! Le Bang Bang is a German duo, they have a pretty good website that gives you some photos, video and information. Be sure to select the English version and click on info. http://lebangbang.de/ I thought this was an excellent track as well. You would love the weather we're having right now. high 50's and sunny. Just got back from running 6.6 miles. Bob NP: Big Head Todd & The Monsters, "Josephina" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:51:11 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Thank you Jimmy I needed a real good licking... On Feb 8, 2014, at 2:50 PM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: Glad about the covers, but Punxutawney Phil doesn't recognize Florida. We've had record highs in the upper 80's in both January and this month. How I long for some cool weather. With that said, thanks again Mr. Muller for a fine bunch of covers ( :PPPP to Mr. Paz) Debbi Wheeler does a great job with "All I want". I like country music, and her twist on the song brings a new light. I'm glad Magret Wessel sent you her recording of "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio" Loved that German accent. Well worth the wait. Pierre Dorge & Christian Sievert's BSN was borderline cheese, but not cheesy enough for me to like it. My favorite has to be Le Bang Bang's ACOY. Couldn't find that much about them, but the female singer was exceptional, and I love it that she sang with just the accompaniment of a stand up bass. Very classy! Most of the covers were pretty good. Not a bad one in the bunch. Happy Saturday my Joni friends, and thanks again Bob! Jimmy In a message dated 2/8/2014 10:47:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, scjoniguy@yahoo.com writes: > Well, Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow and I see the a stack of covers so > we'll have 6 more weeks of winter and a whole lot more covers. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:39:44 -0800 From: Betsy Blue Subject: 15 fun facts about C&S Unlike the 20 Things You Didn't Know from a few months ago, I actually learned stuff instead of wanting to make corrections. http://www.thatericalper.com/2014/01/16/40-years-ago-today-joni-mitchell-released-court-and-spark-here-are-15-fun-facts-about-the-album/ Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 08:55:18 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 182 Twice in a row, my brain tricked me into thinking that, where it says "Betsy Miller," it said "Bette Midler" instead and I was getting really excited over Bette Midler singing a bunch of Joni songs. For me, six weeks more of winter would be a short winter indeed, but those groundhogs can still go to hell, because what I would love to see is temps going above -20C. It has been a very cold winter this year and I really do have the urge for going somewhere even a bit warmer. Too bad I'm broke. >________________________________ > From: Bob Muller >To: JMDL >Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 10:43:16 AM >Subject: Joni Covers Volume 182 > > >Well, Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow and I see the a stack of covers so we'll have 6 more weeks of winter and a whole lot more covers. >Here's a brand-new one, Volume 182 with a good variety of stuff. Debi Wheeler kicks things off with a fun ramblin' alt-country sounding 'All I Want', Pablo Held performs a great extended instrumental version of 'Marcie', Leah Uijterlinde's 'River' is very tasty. Stephen Prina's 'A Case Of You' is an excerpt of a VERY long piece titled "Concerto For Modern, Movie, And Pop Music For Ten Instruments And Voice". Betsy Miller turns in a hat trick, Sarah Passmore sounds like she needs to blow her nose, and I always love to hear 'Urge For Going', especially this time of year when there are hints of spring. >Thanks to Paul and also to Magret Wessel who sent me her recording that had been on my want list for a decade. > >http://goo.gl/TvOKKH ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #183 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------