From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #1509 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 1 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1509 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mitchell and Lennon [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #1459 ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Hejira Live review in the SD Troubadour njc [Anita Gabrielle ] erratum [Dave Blackburn ] RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #1507 [Mary ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 11:46:21 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Mitchell and Lennon The way i remember the context of John Lennon's comment is that he spoke first. I have lots of Beatle John's music, of course, but he brought up the class warfare scenario in his original comment. He was a sarcastic, brilliant, sometimes angry artist (too). As we all know, Joni has been a fighter since childhood. "The best defense is a strong offense." Ordinarily she doesn't collapse under pressure (Blue period excepted). I think Joni probably formulated her response based on Lennon's original premise, which is utterly logical and appropriate. She could have uncorked a list of John's faults and demons, but she did not. She came back with a dispassionate, measured, smart answer. She doesn't need my approval but I think she did just fine. Go Joni. Jim (in Columbus, Ohio which is reeling because of our football team. The Buckeyes took two hard hits last weekend.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 15:26:36 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #1459 I am fascinated listening to those cafi tapes ... She does tend to keep the sets in "family of tunings" but sometimes you can hear her go from a G tuning down to a Song For a Seagull C or B tuning and then back up to open D and I squint just waiting for her to break a string (even though I've listened to these tapes a million times!) Her ear is really impeccable. I want to try an exercise one day where I try to replicate a set of her songs exactly as they appear on one of my tapes and see how I do tuning and retuning. Bing-Snap-Wam-Bam !!! watch out!! :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Clark Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 10:17 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1459 B Well I think she just did it the old fashioned way, by twidling the knobs on the guitar. Certainly after she became famous and was with CSN&Y she had a guitar tech and more than one guitar, but in the early coffee house, second-fret days she just did it herself. It is amazing. But remember, she was doing two and three sets every night, so anything you do so much soon becomes second nature. On an early Philadelphia radio broadcast she goes from Sisotowbell Lane tuning, CGDFCE to The Gallery tuning, C#F#C#F#A#C# in seconds. You can tell she's using the same guitar and tuning it. What really amazes me is when she introduces her first piano songs like Rainy Night House, and how complicated they sound on top of all the guitar songs. She's a genius!Jeff On Thursday, November 27, 2014 3:04 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: JMDL DigestB B B Thursday, November 27 2014B B B Volume 2014 : Number 1459 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- B RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #1457B B B B B B ["kimberly" ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:25:02 -0800 From: "kimberly" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #1457 My sun currently rises and sets in the land of Joni. I am preparing for a concert of all Joni Mitchell compositions, Dec. 7th @ Soho, Santa Barbara, CA.B and hope that all of you within range can attend. I've had wonderful support for this effort so far and many from this site, so thank you to those who have already responded. I wanted to share some of the unanticipated challenges of this project from the standpoint of the musician. This has both mystified me and also garnered increased respect for Joni's work. Her tunings are so magical but a bit of a nightmare from a guitarists perspective. I have managed to break two brand new guitars with computerized tuning systems in an effort to program them to only 6 of 8 the tunings that I am using in the show. I'll probably end up with two guitars on stage and a competent guitar tech just off stage grabbing them from me and retuning them to me between songs. I'm doing this as a trade with Jensen's guitar, our local music store.B I'm only playing on every third song. I wondering how the heck Joni managed this...alone...in a coffee house... with no tech. Maybe audiences were more tolerant of her tuning time back then. Maybe she got famous so quickly into her career that she had a constant tech and numerous guitars after those long awkward coffee house gigs. Maybe I'm just being humbled, ha! Thoughts? Kimberly FordB B B B B B - - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni-digest@smoe.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:00 AM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #1457 JMDL DigestB B B Wednesday, November 26 2014B B B Volume 2014 : Number 1457 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - - -------- B Re: NO Indictment In Ferguson?B NO Justice!B [Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: NO Indictment In Ferguson?B NO Justice! > I reiterate, what does any of this have to do with the Joni Mitchell > discussion list???? > > Sent from my iPad Dear Sent from my iPad, as you probably know, there are four different versions of this mailing list, so the question may be answered as "everything" or "nothing", depending on the list version you signed up to. A discussion of a non-Joni topic should have the NJC (No Joni Content) in the subject line. In this case someone apparently forgot it and then people simply hit the reply button. I trust my fellow listers here that this happens without the intent of disturbing the peace of the Joni-only world, so I believe we can manage and simply delete such a message. moni k. - - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1457 ****************************** - - ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - - ------- - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1459 ****************************** - ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 17:22:09 +0000 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: Hejira Live review in the SD Troubadour njc Fabulous review, Dave, couldn't have written it better myself. It's great when you feel someone has taken the trouble to really listen - and this person definitely has. As for Bob's comment about Robin playing Joni in "Girls Like Us" I couldn't help thinking that she undoubtedly has the cheekbones! She also has the chops and the nouse, Anita > On 1 Dec 2014, at 14:40, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > Another feather in your cap there, Dave. Makes me want to play my copy > again! > > Hopefully it moves some units for you. You might also start a rumor that > Robin is going to play Joni in Girls Like Us or have her declare that > you're pulling all your albums off Spotify. That might get you some press. > > Bob > > NP: Ani DiFranco, "Genie" > > > > From: Dave Blackburn > To: JMDL JMDL , > Date: 12/01/2014 09:04 AM > Subject: Hejira Live review in the SD Troubadour njc > Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org > > > > Greetings all, and happy September. Lots of activity here of late; Joni > has been in the news a lot and making people crazy with some of her > pronouncements! Ibve been keeping my head low, remembering that I like > Joni for her work, and find the interview stuff so much gossip. > > A nice new review of our Hejira Live CD came out today. I thought I would > share it with you. The reviewer seems to know his Joni fairly well so that > helps. His spellings of our names and title of our last CD are a bit off, > but these days you have to be thankful for any press attention. > http://tinyurl.com/okcug2u > > best wishes to you all, > Dave > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any and all > computers and other devices. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 12:05:45 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Top 100 Thinkers Joni is named as one of the Top 100 Thinkers by New Republic Magazine. http://www.newrepublic.com/feature/thinkers/songwriting/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 06:08:49 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: erratum Oopsb&I meant to type December, not September! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 12:26:14 -0800 From: Mary Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #1507 To all, First, I've had a lot of espresso this morning. You have been warned. There have been so many posts lately re: Joni's disposition, et al. It has been a rich discussion, imho. I sit here lurking in the cold weather thinking & thinking & not wanting to pull back from the discussion. But I wanted to add to it, not just post. Everyone has been very thoughtful, so I wanted to digest it all first. Thank you to all who responded to me offline & sorry that I did not respond individually. I will state my big positive about her interviews first & then expand a little on the rest of the "controversy". I love the live interviews with Joni when she talks about music - she is so animated & uses so many sounds & slang words & shortcuts that musicians use - a language all it's own. I love hearing her talk about the colors of sounds & chords. I mean, she's deep into the music, man. She can't help but be musical even when she speaks about painting. But....she didn't invent music or painting, or art, nor was she the first child to fill up a sketch book or write a good poem, though to hear her tell it, she invented it all. LOL. I think it is absolutely ok & yes, necessary, to think critically & not accept things at face value. Much has been said about Joni's music happening at just the right time & place. Did she buy into the beautiful blonde goddess/muse/artist idea ? Absolutely. Did her music rise above that notion : Double Yes. She's just that good. Is she complicit in a little of the mythology about herself - that fueled her financial success ? Yes, I think so.....& she ended up writing about the part that played & was conflicted about it. She is a little in love with herself, I think, but I love her just the same. Was it her music that attracted so many to her ? Well, of course it was. It is because of her way of musically opening up to great emotional truths of living & striving & searching for romantic love that truly strikes a chord. A chord of truth & recognition. For that reason, I think it is disconcerting that someone with that clarity of insight can be so clueless when otherwise we experience her. That dissonance bothered me. Now I just accept it. It is probably not a good idea to get so heavily invested in hero worship anyway. She appears bitter sometimes, and arrogant other times. She repeats herself a lot with her interview bits ( or, as Joni lovers, have we just read so much about her that it appears like repetition ?). Is she perfect - far from it, though we probably bought into her music as being from an oracle - we can forget she's human. Do I like her chain smoking ? No, because it's unhealthy & I think it affected her voice & her instrument, but it's her life. Whatever. Does she protest too much ? Certainly. Probably a difficult person to have in your life if you don't adore her...or maybe not.....I & most of us, will never know, or frankly, care. Accept that she's not perfect. Is it a good idea to learn your "idols" are humans with flaws, or lots of flaws.....Absolutely. Life goes on, like a river of people looking for an ocean. Does her music stand the test of time ? Yes. Is she working as an artist with a goal & a discipline to her work? Yes. Does she investigate the important issues in life ? I think so. Does she try to investigate her feelings & thoughts ? Yes. Artist with a capital A. In a way, I'm glad she has no filters when she speaks, but sometimes, I do wish she'd just edit herself. It won't stop me from loving her music, though. Never. GREETINGS FROM THE TRIPLE M Down a gravel road, where the barb wire meets the sky. MARY M. MORRIS > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 03:00:04 -0500 > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #1507 > > > JMDL Digest Monday, December 1 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1507 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: I'm thrilled [Gerald Kent ] > I'm thrilled [Laurie Antonioli ] > Joni, the archetype, and being there [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] > Dave Bidini's open letter [Paul Ivice ] > Bidini "letter" [kbhla@fastmail.fm] > Joni in Vulture [Paul Ivice ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:55:56 -0500 > From: Gerald Kent > Subject: Re: I'm thrilled > > Absolutely Laurie. Maybe someday she will get the attention she deserves (although she may not want it!). > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Laurie Antonioli wrote: > > > > that we've seen so much of Joni lately, that everyone is talking about her > > - good, bad or strange - whatever - there's heaps of people who never "got" > > Joni and there's many others whose lives have been deeply impacted by her. > > > > I'm happy she's out and about. I'm glad she's speaking her mind. And...I > > think that complex people are complex. There's no black and white here and > > the subtle shades are what she captures as an artist. The "art" and the > > "artist" are not always "the same." Artists are humans that are flawed, > > like everyone else. Not gods or goddesses for goodness sake. > > > > So. She's been controversial all her career and that will continue. I > > think everyone should be more worried if she became docile. That would be > > a bad sign. > > > > Laurie > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:42:13 -0500 > From: Laurie Antonioli > Subject: I'm thrilled > > that we've seen so much of Joni lately, that everyone is talking about her > - - good, bad or strange - whatever - there's heaps of people who never "got" > Joni and there's many others whose lives have been deeply impacted by her. > > I'm happy she's out and about. I'm glad she's speaking her mind. And...I > think that complex people are complex. There's no black and white here and > the subtle shades are what she captures as an artist. The "art" and the > "artist" are not always "the same." Artists are humans that are flawed, > like everyone else. Not gods or goddesses for goodness sake. > > So. She's been controversial all her career and that will continue. I > think everyone should be more worried if she became docile. That would be > a bad sign. > > Laurie > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:31:16 -0500 > From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Subject: Joni, the archetype, and being there > > Yeah, and I'd take that an (obvious) step further. In the pbs film, someone > said that the rock mythology had already exalted the California flower child/ > beauty with long blonde hair. To people like me, Joni (unwittingly) fit the > mold. He said something like "The fact that Joni was both the beauty AND the > songwriter was a very powerful myth for people." > > Jim > > Mark in Seattle (another talented writer on the JMDL) said in part, > > > > I can see the parallel. Joni came along when cultural shifts had created > an environment that was ready to embrace her persona and music. She had put > in all of that time playing the coffee houses and working those circuits to > practice her art so that by the time she recorded 'Song To a Seagull' she > already had a considerable catalog of songs and had become an accomplished > guitarist and singer.> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:54:46 -0500 > From: Paul Ivice > Subject: Dave Bidini's open letter > > On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: > > Title: An open > letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini > > Publication: National Post > > Date: > 2014.11.28 > written, but > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 > It's a little more strongly worded than I would have sic, but for the most > part it captures my sentiments. > I still love Joni's music, but I am liking her > less and less and she pursues the accolades and credit she thinks she deserves > by denigrating contemporaries and alienating friends. > One of the reasons I > don't like Dog Eat Dog and most of her music that followed is that when I > sensed that Joni's her preachiness and apparent > She is not helping herself or > her image with her recent interviews. There is a group of her fans that think > she can do no wrong and will support their idol regardless, but that group is > shrinking, not growing. > > > Paul Ivice ;>) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:40:29 -0800 > From: kbhla@fastmail.fm > Subject: Bidini "letter" > > I thought Bidini's "letter" was especially disgusting because he > consciously misquoted, misstated and took out of context Joni's words > from recent interviews. If one is going to have a good rant, at least > base it on something that was actually said, with no doubt of context. > It is a pet peeve of mine whether the person being misquoted is Joni > Mitchell or anyone else. If he really cares about her so much and felt > so concerned about her attitude, why not send her a private, rather than > attention seeking public, heartfelt letter? I presume he is bright > enough to understand the nuances of context, so his actions seems > deliberate here. > > Then, since it is so over the top, I considered the possibility that > this might be some kind of bad parody that didn't give us enough "tells" > to recognize the satire. It definitely should be included in the Joni > database of articles. That way, if he reconsiders his rant someday when > he is older and wiser and wishes he could erase it, it will remain there > for all to see in "posterity." Haha! > > Kakki > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:05:45 -0500 > From: Paul Ivice > Subject: Joni in Vulture > > From: "Mark" > Subject: Re: Joni in Vulture > > I > didn't see the particular comment so I am just making inferences here from > what Mary wrote.B I have been reading a book called 'Outliers' by Malcolm > Gladwell.B It is all about how extraordinarily successful people have > usually > been given more than genius or exceptional ability of some kind to > get to > where they are.B At one point he says that Bill Gates was born at the > right > time in history to be able to utilize his genius for computer > programming and > technology to get to where he is now.B The advances in > computer technology > were ripe for the development of the personal computer, > the internet and all > the rest when Gates began to put his ability to work. > He was also born into a > family that had the means to send him to Seattle's > prestigious Lakeside School > and connections with the University of > Washington gave him and Paul Allen > access to a computer that had the ability > to share programming time.B So they > were able to practice their programming > skills, spending hours at the UW, > totally immersed in their obsession. > > I can see the parallel.B Joni came > along when cultural shifts had created an > environment that was ready to > embrace her persona and music.B She had put in > all of that time playing the > coffee houses and working those circuits to > practice her art so that by the > time she recorded 'Song To a Seagull' she > already had a considerable catalog > of songs and had become an accomplished > guitarist and singer.B She landed in > Laurel Canyon with a record contract. > Later, Russ Kunkel suggested she should > use jazz musicians to play her > unconventional music.B Someone told her about > the L.A. Express.B When she > was looking for a bass player to give her the > sounds she wanted, someone > told her about Jaco.B She was in the right place > to interact with people who > would point her toward the musical elements she > needed.B She had the genius, > but had she been born ten years earlier, or > never had the chance to develop > it, and if events had not lined up in a > certain way, that genius might never > have blossomed or have been discovered. > Mark in Seattle > > > Mark, > It's an interesting point of view, but I think in > reality it is exactly the opposite. Gladwell is wrong. > When researching a > paper I wrote a long time ago on "The Eureka Effect" about how genius rises to > the surface, the preponderance of the evidence and opinion I collected from > case histories and experts was not that geniuses took advantages of unique > opportunities, or cracks in their ecosystem, but that in most cases genius > will out, regardless of circumstance or opportunity. > These people have the > innate ability and drive to overcome obstacles and figure out their path to > success in spite of, not because of, special circumstances that Gladwell > describes. > > > Paul Ivice ;>) > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1507 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1509 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. 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