From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #1507 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 1 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1507 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: I'm thrilled [Gerald Kent ] I'm thrilled [Laurie Antonioli ] Joni, the archetype, and being there [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Dave Bidini's open letter [Paul Ivice ] Bidini "letter" [kbhla@fastmail.fm] Joni in Vulture [Paul Ivice ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:55:56 -0500 From: Gerald Kent Subject: Re: I'm thrilled Absolutely Laurie. Maybe someday she will get the attention she deserves (although she may not want it!). Sent from my iPad > On Nov 30, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Laurie Antonioli wrote: > > that we've seen so much of Joni lately, that everyone is talking about her > - good, bad or strange - whatever - there's heaps of people who never "got" > Joni and there's many others whose lives have been deeply impacted by her. > > I'm happy she's out and about. I'm glad she's speaking her mind. And...I > think that complex people are complex. There's no black and white here and > the subtle shades are what she captures as an artist. The "art" and the > "artist" are not always "the same." Artists are humans that are flawed, > like everyone else. Not gods or goddesses for goodness sake. > > So. She's been controversial all her career and that will continue. I > think everyone should be more worried if she became docile. That would be > a bad sign. > > Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:42:13 -0500 From: Laurie Antonioli Subject: I'm thrilled that we've seen so much of Joni lately, that everyone is talking about her - - good, bad or strange - whatever - there's heaps of people who never "got" Joni and there's many others whose lives have been deeply impacted by her. I'm happy she's out and about. I'm glad she's speaking her mind. And...I think that complex people are complex. There's no black and white here and the subtle shades are what she captures as an artist. The "art" and the "artist" are not always "the same." Artists are humans that are flawed, like everyone else. Not gods or goddesses for goodness sake. So. She's been controversial all her career and that will continue. I think everyone should be more worried if she became docile. That would be a bad sign. Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:31:16 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Joni, the archetype, and being there Yeah, and I'd take that an (obvious) step further. In the pbs film, someone said that the rock mythology had already exalted the California flower child/ beauty with long blonde hair. To people like me, Joni (unwittingly) fit the mold. He said something like "The fact that Joni was both the beauty AND the songwriter was a very powerful myth for people." Jim Mark in Seattle (another talented writer on the JMDL) said in part, > > I can see the parallel. Joni came along when cultural shifts had created an environment that was ready to embrace her persona and music. She had put in all of that time playing the coffee houses and working those circuits to practice her art so that by the time she recorded 'Song To a Seagull' she already had a considerable catalog of songs and had become an accomplished guitarist and singer.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:54:46 -0500 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Dave Bidini's open letter On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: > Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini > Publication: National Post > Date: 2014.11.28 written, but > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 It's a little more strongly worded than I would have sic, but for the most part it captures my sentiments. I still love Joni's music, but I am liking her less and less and she pursues the accolades and credit she thinks she deserves by denigrating contemporaries and alienating friends. One of the reasons I don't like Dog Eat Dog and most of her music that followed is that when I sensed that Joni's her preachiness and apparent She is not helping herself or her image with her recent interviews. There is a group of her fans that think she can do no wrong and will support their idol regardless, but that group is shrinking, not growing. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:40:29 -0800 From: kbhla@fastmail.fm Subject: Bidini "letter" I thought Bidini's "letter" was especially disgusting because he consciously misquoted, misstated and took out of context Joni's words from recent interviews. If one is going to have a good rant, at least base it on something that was actually said, with no doubt of context. It is a pet peeve of mine whether the person being misquoted is Joni Mitchell or anyone else. If he really cares about her so much and felt so concerned about her attitude, why not send her a private, rather than attention seeking public, heartfelt letter? I presume he is bright enough to understand the nuances of context, so his actions seems deliberate here. Then, since it is so over the top, I considered the possibility that this might be some kind of bad parody that didn't give us enough "tells" to recognize the satire. It definitely should be included in the Joni database of articles. That way, if he reconsiders his rant someday when he is older and wiser and wishes he could erase it, it will remain there for all to see in "posterity." Haha! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:05:45 -0500 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Joni in Vulture From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Joni in Vulture I didn't see the particular comment so I am just making inferences here from what Mary wrote.B I have been reading a book called 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell.B It is all about how extraordinarily successful people have usually been given more than genius or exceptional ability of some kind to get to where they are.B At one point he says that Bill Gates was born at the right time in history to be able to utilize his genius for computer programming and technology to get to where he is now.B The advances in computer technology were ripe for the development of the personal computer, the internet and all the rest when Gates began to put his ability to work. He was also born into a family that had the means to send him to Seattle's prestigious Lakeside School and connections with the University of Washington gave him and Paul Allen access to a computer that had the ability to share programming time.B So they were able to practice their programming skills, spending hours at the UW, totally immersed in their obsession. I can see the parallel.B Joni came along when cultural shifts had created an environment that was ready to embrace her persona and music.B She had put in all of that time playing the coffee houses and working those circuits to practice her art so that by the time she recorded 'Song To a Seagull' she already had a considerable catalog of songs and had become an accomplished guitarist and singer.B She landed in Laurel Canyon with a record contract. Later, Russ Kunkel suggested she should use jazz musicians to play her unconventional music.B Someone told her about the L.A. Express.B When she was looking for a bass player to give her the sounds she wanted, someone told her about Jaco.B She was in the right place to interact with people who would point her toward the musical elements she needed.B She had the genius, but had she been born ten years earlier, or never had the chance to develop it, and if events had not lined up in a certain way, that genius might never have blossomed or have been discovered. Mark in Seattle Mark, It's an interesting point of view, but I think in reality it is exactly the opposite. Gladwell is wrong. When researching a paper I wrote a long time ago on "The Eureka Effect" about how genius rises to the surface, the preponderance of the evidence and opinion I collected from case histories and experts was not that geniuses took advantages of unique opportunities, or cracks in their ecosystem, but that in most cases genius will out, regardless of circumstance or opportunity. These people have the innate ability and drive to overcome obstacles and figure out their path to success in spite of, not because of, special circumstances that Gladwell describes. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1507 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------