From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #1185 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 16 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1185 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Morning [Jim Mcmeans ] Re: Eeek, there's a "troll" in my house! NJC [Laurie Antonioli Subject: Morning "And the sun poured through like butterscotch and stuck to all my senses." These have been my morning lyrics for decades. Puts a smile on my face. So a good Chelsea morning to all my joni brothers and sisters. Boston Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 09:12:43 -0700 From: Laurie Antonioli Subject: Re: Eeek, there's a "troll" in my house! NJC Catherine, (and Bob): for sure. First - thank you for taking time to break it down! The email wasn't intended for the group - Dave was being kind in forwarding. My publicist thought a few more nice reviews would clear the waters - I don't want this to turn into a JMDL issue or "project." Please know this. I sent that email to 6 people, not realizing Dave had already done his (beautiful) review! He forwarded to you all as an act of solidarity with all the best intentions. (I can imagine doing the same for him and Robin!) With that said - great breakdown of the "situation." Online behavior has been a major topic of late and anyone can start a blog, call themselves a critic and create their top ten list of best recordings in whatever category they like. Gone are the days of newspapers having a "jazz writer" on staff (I remember those days) and most reviewers get paid less than $50 or even write for free, on some of the most legit sites. There's almost no way to "manage" the situation. However...there are some online warriors who will not back down, in a good way, on topics of substance, disallowing negative people to reek havoc. Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Amazon and other places have become pretty toxic. Not in every case, of course, but, it seems to be more and more. And this negativity can cause harm. Sad, but true. One more note: I was with a group of professional writers one night. Crime fiction and TV screenplay writers. Someone told a story about how a bad review "destroyed" someone's career. I chimed in with a "oh, come on...how could that be" and the entire group said, in fact, it was a true story and it took years for this writer to recover their professional footing in the industry after a vicious review in a trade magazine. Words have power, whether they are written or spoken. As well, and per your observations Catherine, it's good to look at the "source." It sure creates a lot of work to double check everything - who has the time or inspiration? With Joni-related issues, many of us will investigate. I was very upset with the negative reviews about Malka's book as I think it's an amazing piece of work. I will, later today, go on Amazon to write a review. I simply didn't even think to do it! And so it goes. On my bucket list: 6 months to a year without any online activity except for essential emails. Thanks, Catherine. I appreciate your analysis and research. I don't know where you are, but I'm on my 2nd cup of coffee and hope the rest of the day has nothing to do with reviews on Amazon!! Warm regards, Laurie On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Bob, I feel the same way and am generally quite leery of reviews of > anything that's either too gushy or too nasty. As well, I think that people > who do reviews on websites like amazon do tend to fall to the extremes and > that rarely will you see a truly well-considered review. I have given up > reviewing things on amazon for the most part since they don't seem to like > it if you simply give something a star-rating, but I can't always think of > something to say that hasn't already been said by many people many times or > that is in any way helpful. I don't particularly have the time or the > interest to review something in a thorough way and simply saying something > like, "I LOVED this!" seems pointless. I'm not really sure how many people > go by the reviews on amazon, but I guess some do ( I would be more likely > to do this for a product and not a CD or a book). When I do read reviews, I > look for the ones that go beyond gush or flame and have some actual content > in them. I've also noticed that a lot of trolls can't spell or use proper > grammar (What's up with that?) and that many of them seem to have major > chips on their shoulders (in fact, entire blocks) and they just seem to be > very unhappy people who like to blame others, directly or indirectly, for > their own unhappiness. Particularly with certain types of music, and jazz > is probably the main one, people seem truly divided into certain camps > where only *their* particular style of jazz is good and everything else is > crap. These people seem to knock everything and consider themselves experts > on their subject, to the point of intolerance towards anyone else's point > of view or, for that matter, anyone's questions. > > Analysis of the one- and two-stars and I'm not really sure if these people > fit my definition of "troll" but opinions on this differ: > > > Troll # 1: This person has done four reviews only. Gave five stars and an > actual review to both a Todd Rundgren CD (gushy and not particularly > informative) and a book about Frank Zappa (a decent review since he gives > info and doesn't gush.) Gave one star only to two items, i.e. "Sony CDRs - > utter trash". Laurie's CD "I hated it". You can rate ratings as helpful or > not, and I've rated his as "not helpful" for this CD, since he gives no > explanation of why he hated it, which makes me wonder why he would bother > to comment at all. Maybe it's actually a good thing when one or two people > have that kind of visceral response. > > > Troll # 2: This woman has done quite a few reviews and seems to be a big > Joni fan, but her reviews tend to be one or two words only, therefore not > particularly helpful. She also seems to assign either five stars or one to > everything, with no in-betweens. I downvoted her review of your CD only > because she doesn't explain why she hates it. > > Troll # 3: the 2-star guy. Things are looking up! He has reviewed only two > things:your album and a light-bulb adapter. Consider yourself in good > company! His verbal review isn't helpful, since he doesn't' explain why > it's a disappointment, and that is disappointing to me. > > Having said all of the above, I have probably reviewed a few things on > amazon where I've used only a few words or a few lines and therefore my > reviews are equally pointless. But I've given up doing them at all, since > it takes too much time to do it right. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" > To: Dave Blackburn > Cc: JMDL JMDL ; Laurie Antonioli > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: Eeek, there's a "troll" in my house! NJC > > > I may not be typical but I seldom give a lot of credence to those 1-star > 1-line reviews. Trolls will be trolls. By the same token, when someone is > gushing and gushing you can sort of tell that they have some kind of > relationship with the person behind the product and may not be totally > sincere. > > With the case of CD's on Amazon, you can do a play through of the song > samples and get a pretty good feel for what the singer and band sound > like, what the style of music is, etc. You're not as dependent on reviews > as you would be with other products that you have to buy based on other > factors. > > Bob > > NP: Great Lake Swimmers, "Pulling On A Line" > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1185 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------