From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #1103 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 19 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1103 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Best vocal [Anita Gabrielle ] Re: Best vocal [Anita Gabrielle ] Re: Talking about Joni's voice ... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Vince Mendoza's arrangements & orchestrations ["Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Re: Best vocal I forgot to say, Dave, how much I am looking forward to hearing the Hejira cd. Did you mention, or am I imagining, there might be video clips on utube as well? A > On 19 Aug 2014, at 03:01, Jack Merkel wrote: > > I totally agree Dave. What a treat it must have been to hear those tapes. Can't wait for new CD. > > Jack > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 18, 2014, at 6:13 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: >> >> Anita, that was a good weepfest wasnt it? I always want sound to make you feel something, and listening on a good system makes that much more likely. The same record played on a laptops internal speakers gives you about 10% of that feeling. >> >> On a related note, I was just introduced to a local audiophile, Kip Peterson, and he had me come over and do some listening on his front door size ribbon speakers with the discrete left and right monoblock power amps and cables (interconnects) that cost a months wages. In addition to LPs and CDs he also has a collection of master tapes. Now, these are reel to reel tapes that were sent off to foreign countries for LP pressing in those regions and they are direct transfers of the mastered albums. When those foreign plants closed down they had vaults of tapes to be disposed of and someone realized they could be sold to collectors. Kip has Blue and Court and Spark among other goodies like Dark Side of the Moon. He played me Blue. Joni was practically five feet in front of me strumming her dulcimer, as vivid as if she were in fact present. Sound equals feeling, or it ought to, and this was a profound feeling. I am refraining from chiming in on the best vocal thread because what y! >> ou hear something on plays a HUGE part in how you respond to it. Blue is not even in my top five Joni albums but when I heard All I Want coming at me from half inch analog tape exactly as it left the mastering plant (Bernie Grundman) it was jaw dropping. >> >> On an unrelated note, Mutts of the Planet performing Hejira live is about to be released on CD in the next few weeks. Ill be giving out more info soon, and Youtubes of the June 1st Carlsbad show where it was recorded will be up shortly. I have spent two months mixing this, and it is a corker, as we say in the UK. >> >> love >> Dave >> >> >> >>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Anita Gabrielle wrote: >>> >>> It's June 2nd 2014: >>> At Dave and Robin's House near Fallbrook. >>> Dave shares his sound system with >>> Half a dozen or so of us Joni Listers and Friends. >>> The 2000 version Vince Mendoza version of 'A Case Of You' rolls from the speakers. It is as though I have never heard it before. >>> >>> A deep, cracked Joni voice bleeds every word. >>> >>> I begin to sob. And I am not alone. >>> Anita >>> >>>> On 18 Aug 2014, at 21:53, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Truly, anything from LOTC through WTRF. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:53:53 +0100 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: Best vocal All this makes me reevaluate the speaker system I had built into my walls and compressed,digital sound. The old analogue tape sounds quite something. And I shall never forget the warmth of the sound at the Weep Fest! Anita > On 19 Aug 2014, at 00:13, Dave Blackburn wrote: > > Anita, that was a good weepfest wasnbt it? I always want sound to make you feel something, and listening on a good system makes that much more likely. The same record played on a laptopbs internal speakers gives you about 10% of that feeling. > > On a related note, I was just introduced to a local audiophile, Kip Peterson, and he had me come over and do some listening on his front door size ribbon speakers with the discrete left and right monoblock power amps and cables (interconnects) that cost a months wages. In addition to LPs and CDs he also has a collection of master tapes. Now, these are reel to reel tapes that were sent off to foreign countries for LP pressing in those regions and they are direct transfers of the mastered albums. When those foreign plants closed down they had vaults of tapes to be disposed of and someone realized they could be sold to collectors. Kip has Blue and Court and Spark among other goodies like Dark Side of the Moon. He played me Blue. Joni was practically five feet in front of me strumming her dulcimer, as vivid as if she were in fact present. Sound equals feeling, or it ought to, and this was a profound feeling. I am refraining from chiming in on the best vocal thread because what you hear something on plays a HUGE part in how you respond to it. Blue is not even in my top five Joni albums but when I heard All I Want coming at me from half inch analog tape exactly as it left the mastering plant (Bernie Grundman) it was jaw dropping. > > On an unrelated note, Mutts of the Planet performing Hejira live is about to be released on CD in the next few weeks. Ibll be giving out more info soon, and Youtubes of the June 1st Carlsbad show where it was recorded will be up shortly. I have spent two months mixing this, and it is a corker, as we say in the UK. > > love > Dave > > > >> On Aug 18, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Anita Gabrielle wrote: >> >> It's June 2nd 2014: >> At Dave and Robin's House near Fallbrook. >> Dave shares his sound system with >> Half a dozen or so of us Joni Listers and Friends. >> The 2000 version Vince Mendoza version of 'A Case Of You' rolls from the speakers. It is as though I have never heard it before. >> >> A deep, cracked Joni voice bleeds every word. >> >> I begin to sob. And I am not alone. >> Anita >> >>> On 18 Aug 2014, at 21:53, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: >>> >>> Truly, anything from LOTC through WTRF. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:01:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Talking about Joni's voice ... I think except for Chaka Khan on DJRD, she never used a female background voice other than her own> Sue, 50 whacks with a wet noodle for you! Off the top of my head I recalled Wendy & Lisa providing background vocals on Tea Leaf Prophecy, and upon looking I confirmed that she used Karen Pearis and Brenda Russell on Cherokee Louise & Ray's Dad's Cadillac too. Not to worry - you still look cute with that dunce cap on your head. :-) Bob NP: Lake Street Dive, "Seventeen" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:45:53 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Re: Vince Mendoza's arrangements & orchestrations Wow Dave ... What an insightful description ... Of Vince Mendoza's vision, Joni's interpretation of her experiences into art, and our own cultural lenses through which we relate to it ... I love the image of Joni at a young age listening to the radio and then translating all those beautiful sounds into a six string guitar and her voice ... Then ultimately recreating her youthful fantasy into Both Sides Now and Travelogue ... It's a full circle image of an amazing artist ... I continue to be fascinated by her whole body of work and still have so much to learn ... Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:57 AM, "Dave Blackburn" wrote: > > Let me say upfront that I consider Vince Mendoza the preeminent orchestrator working today, and one of the reasons is that he is modern while fully in command of past idioms. That is to say, his musical heritage is a set of very diverse influences that a schmaltzy string arranger behind a crooner would be unaware of. Some people hear strings and think Mantovani. Vince Mendoza, however, never stoops to corny writing or even reveals an identifiable Mendoza style. When the Yellowjackets had him orchestrate Greenhouse in 1991 he understood the modern classical jazz fusion they were after, when Bjork had him orchestrate Vespertine in 2001 he drew from her Icelandic choral tradition and her odd fusion of sampling electronica and lush musicals. In each case he grasped the mix of traditions the artist was drawing from and incorporated them in his writing, never imposing his own thing heavy handedly on top of theirs. > > On Both Sides Now and Travelogue Joni was paying homage to her parents' era, as she discusses in Painting with Words and Music, referencing Bing Crosbys Swing era in particular. The sweeping romance of 1940s American music was a big part of her young life, no doubt growing up on the remote Canadian prairie with exactly that on the radio. The small combo jazz that Simon describes himself and Wally anticipating was, however, from a different era, the mid to late 50s. By that time Joni was smitten with Rock and Roll (In France the Kiss on Main St.) For her to do a Chet Baker-style record would no doubt have been cool, but it would have been contrary to her experience. Besides, if one wants her to give us small jazz combo music she had already given us Mingus, a small ensemble jazz project par excellence, albeit using modern sounds of the day like the Rhodes piano and electric fretless bass. > > She had dabbled with orchestration on Court and Spark, Hissing, and Don Juans Reckless Daughter and in every case her music backed up by orchestra had been artistically triumphant, but by 1998 very few record labels would spring for real strings,and certainly not the LSO; Joni saw a way to deliver her swan song in magnificent luxurious grandeur, something entirely fitting her sense of panache. To my mind, Travelogue and BSN were not at all artistic overreach or a caving to cheap commercialism. In a way they were the natural culmination of everything she had ever reached for: romance, depth, exquisiteness, dimension, poignance. Oddly, in a tragic irony, those of us from the next generation came up with a stigma attached to large format music, feeling in our post-summer-of love-bones that acoustic and small was the honest way. I think this debate we have every so often on the list about these two albums reveals that this pre-disposition persists. In other words, the post-Wood! > stock generation might view an intimate acoustic record as a fitting farewell, whereas Joni, at nearly seventy one years old, felt like singing in front of the worlds top orchestra, arranged by the hippest arranger in the business, would be more her style, It has been reported that orchestra members, hearing her vocal in their headphones as they recorded, had tears streaming down their cheeks. Were talking union classical players who had played it all; that is a testament in itself. No, Vince Mendoza was the perfect call for this supposed final farewell, a closing of the loop from Jonis childhood influence to her present, and perhaps even a farewell to the mere existence of such expensive accompaniment for anyone. > > In closing, Simon remarks that Mendozas arrangements did not take Jonis tunings into account; Im afraid this makes no sense. The alternate tunings were a way to accomplish non-standard voicings on guitar using easy fingerings. Vince Mendoza, or any arranger for that matter, was not constrained by the guitarists fingerings at all and could easily hear and orchestrate her voicings. They were remarkable for a self-taught guitarist to have discovered but are not anything to stump an advanced jazz arranger. A Case of You from Travelogue is a perfect rendition of the dulcimer voicings that contained unisons and dissonances; Mendoza captured and honored them all. > > all for now, > > Dave > > > > On Aug 18, 2014, at 3:58 PM, simon@icu.com wrot > >> Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >> >>> I think that Both Sides Now should get a special mention >>> >>> The whole album or just the title track? Frankly I think that vocally most >>> of BSN is so-so, and what makes it stand out are Vince Mendoza's >>> arrangements and the orchestration. >> >> Bob, >> >> Interesting. To me the Vince Mendoza arrangements & orchestration >> are the problem with the BOTH SIDES NOW album. >> >> When Wally and I first heard about Joni recording an album of standards, >> we hoped and assumed that it would end up being done with a small jazz >> combo. Perhaps Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, Larry Klein, Brian Blade >> and unspecified others. Alas, it was not to be. >> >> As for Vince Mendoza and TRAVELOGUE  How / Why would you write orchestrations >> of Joni Mitchell songs and not base them on her Guitar Tunings? >> >> Ive often wondered what TRAVELOGUE would have sounded like if the arrangements >> and orchestrations had been done by either Randy Newman or Van Dyke Parks. >> >> Now THAT! would have been interesting. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1103 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------