From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #849 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, June 26 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 849 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni, Dylan, Paul Simon, etc. [David Marine ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:27:58 -0400 From: David Marine Subject: Joni, Dylan, Paul Simon, etc. Hey List, In fairness to Joni, she didn't say that she had to abandon the syllable-laden style as it was "no longer her sole province." She said that she heard Paul Simon "try" it, and it did not sound good to her ears. I'm not sure which of Simon's albums she was talking about. She then went on to say "I'm not sure that I succeeded with it, it sounds kind of goofy to me when I hear it back." That is to say, she questions the technique in her own work. Is she then attacking herself? Sure, Joni's spoken her mind about many artists over the years, but as she's said, "Nobody's harder on me than me, how could they be?" She's made observations about aspects of her own work that were less than glowing. Isn't it simply possible that she's merely saying what she thinks? I like the fact that she's willing to make honest observations about everyone including herself, even when I disagree with her. I get it. When we speak in an unfiltered way, we may not take the time to consider how the nuances of our discourse might be parsed. Especially when one is grappling to get to a "truth," and others are looking for a sound-bite or a slam. But do we prefer her to be guarded? Diplomatic? In other words, do we want her to be not her? There's a great message board called "Expecting Rain" where people discuss Dylan, and probably 40% or so of the posters agree with Joni's comments. By the way, if you haven't been to that site, I highly recommend it. A lot of idiots there, to be sure, but also a lot of intelligent discourse. And some of the defenses of Joni are more eloquent than anything I've seen here. She says things that are, to her, honest. I don't see them as being mean-spirited. Undiplomatic, yes. But not mean-spirited. No more so than when Dylan said "I hate to see chicks perform. Hate it." And so it rages on. I just wish we could try to get at what Joni is saying, rather than seizing on sound-bites. Best, David On Jun 26, 2013, at 4:30 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:22:28 -0700 > From: Shari Eaton > Subject: Re: VIDEO: Joni: The Creative Odyssey of Joni Mitchell > > Have to say I agree with you here. She repeatedly says what an influence Dylan was to her lyric writing. Imagine if Dylan said 'oh Joni started copying me so I had to switch it up.' It diminishes the talents of the 'influenced' artist and is kind of childish really. I've never listened to Paul Simon and thought he'd done anything other than play music that suited his talents and sensibilities. I would be curious to know at which point in his song writing and album making that the supposed change occurred. > > Dylan was smart in this arena. Whenever anyone (acquaintance or media) brought up Joni (or the name of another artist) he would just reply 'Joni? Yeah she's great.' End of story. A little dull but respectable. > > > > On Jun 26, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > >> I must say I'm rather baffled by Joni's claim that Paul Simon copied her too-many-syllables-in-a-line style, so she felt she therefore had to abandon it as it was no longer her sole province. This claim, which she states as fact, seems on reflection to be rather preposterous. >> >> Joni freely incorporated HER influences into her writing, from slack key open tunings to sax player phrasing. Isn't that how artists work, processing their influences and environment into their art. >> >> I wonder which Paul Simon material she refers to: one song, a whole album, or everything he wrote after succumbing to her influence? I wonder what he would have to say about this claim. He was himself an artist who extended popular song conventions. >> >> Dave >> >> p.s now if she had said Paul Simon copied her idea of writing freewheeling songs over an African groove, ten years after she had done it, I might agree. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #849 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------