From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #551 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 29 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 551 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Coyote [Anita ] Coyote [David Marine ] Re: Coyote [David Marine ] Re: Coyote [Catherine McKay ] NJC - Once with Glen Hansard airs at 2:15 ET [Jim ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 16:18:57 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Coyote David wrote: > I've read from time to time the speculation that the song "Coyote" referred to > the actor Peter Coyote. But knowing Joni's strong interest in Native American > culture, and the way that it has informed so much of her work, I think she > must have written the song with an awareness of the iconography of the coyote, > and possibly the the Shuswap Indian song. Has she ever mentioned this in any > interviews? I don't know about interviews, though I expect a search on Joni.com might reveal it and Moni would definitely be able to find out! She's good at that stuff. What I do remember are several discussions on JMDL about the identity of Coyote, and there seemed to be a lot of support for Sam Shepherd. I have been fortunate to visit Xatsull, a heritage village of the Shushwap people along the Fraser River in BC, so very much Joni territory. They have a great storytelling tradition and, of course, the legends associated with so much of the wildlife within the area are undoubtedly very important to the people. There are so many stories about Coyote, the Trickster, as you say. One of my books says that Coyote is often called the Medicine Dog, and that the medicine may or may not be to your liking. The medicine of Coyote will make you laugh, but maybe painfully, but you will always learn a lesson about yourself. I am fairly confident that Joni would have an awareness of the iconography. At Ruby Lake she had a couple of friends who were First People's, though I wouldn't know which band, and I thought Joni looked like a Tribal Elder herself. The BC coast where she has lived for so long is full of images and wonderful carvings of animal medicine, it's probably now in her bones and maybe was even back then when she wrote 'Hejira' Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 04:21:31 -0400 From: David Marine Subject: Coyote Hey List, I'm not sure if it's been discussed here before, but I was reading recently about the work of the poet Gary Snyder (one of my favorites), and I came across this paper: http://www.ijhss.com/userfiles/Gary Snyder and Appropriation of the Turtle Island Indian(1).pdf Here are two excerpts: Throughout the fifties and sixties, the Coyote had an eloquent appeal for Snyders contemporaries no less than for himself. The coyote is for Snyder protector spirit which Anglo texts and myths indeed lack. The reason for this coyote popularity, he remarks, is due to the growing counterculture sentiment and radical nurturing of antiheroic and nondualistic Coyote, who inhabits all boundary conditions cutting across good and evil, and represents the joyous, indiscriminate energy. The Indian of the American West owes to this life-energizing, un-split vision many of his myths surrounding the Coyote and the Raven of trickery no less than their trans-animal humanity. Thus the Indian could believe in the tale of The Woman Who Marries a Bear. The Shuswap Indian would sing: Our girls get layed by Coyote/ We get along / just fine.[Hunting] I've read from time to time the speculation that the song "Coyote" referred to the actor Peter Coyote. But knowing Joni's strong interest in Native American culture, and the way that it has informed so much of her work, I think she must have written the song with an awareness of the iconography of the coyote, and possibly the the Shuswap Indian song. Has she ever mentioned this in any interviews? Best, David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 16:20:48 -0400 From: David Marine Subject: Re: Coyote Thanks for the info, Anita. And Moni, thanks for the further clarification regarding Sam Shephard. I don't even know why I mentioned the speculation about who Coyote was written "about." It's really the iconography of the coyote in Native American lore that I find so interesting. I did of course check the website database first, but I didn't find any instances of Joni specifically talking about it. I'm not well versed in the various First People stories: what little I know comes from Joni and the Carlos Castaneda books. But I love these stories and find them very compelling... the idea that we can learn about our human nature by observing the natural world around us, and the various aspects of our character that are represented by the animals. Best, David On Apr 28, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Anita wrote: > David wrote: >> I've read from time to time the speculation that the song "Coyote" referred to >> the actor Peter Coyote. But knowing Joni's strong interest in Native American >> culture, and the way that it has informed so much of her work, I think she >> must have written the song with an awareness of the iconography of the coyote, >> and possibly the the Shuswap Indian song. Has she ever mentioned this in any >> interviews? > > I don't know about interviews, though I expect a search on Joni.com might reveal it and Moni would definitely be able to find out! She's good at that stuff. > > What I do remember are several discussions on JMDL about the identity of Coyote, and there seemed to be a lot of support for Sam Shepherd. > > I have been fortunate to visit Xatsull, a heritage village of the Shushwap people along the Fraser River in BC, so very much Joni territory. They have a great storytelling tradition and, of course, the legends associated with so much of the wildlife within the area are undoubtedly very important to the people. > > There are so many stories about Coyote, the Trickster, as you say. One of my books says that Coyote is often called the Medicine Dog, and that the medicine may or may not be to your liking. The medicine of Coyote will make you laugh, but maybe painfully, but you will always learn a lesson about yourself. > > I am fairly confident that Joni would have an awareness of the iconography. At Ruby Lake she had a couple of friends who were First People's, though I wouldn't know which band, and I thought Joni looked like a Tribal Elder herself. The BC coast where she has lived for so long is full of images and wonderful carvings of animal medicine, it's probably now in her bones and maybe was even back then when she wrote 'Hejira' > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:05:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Coyote I was curious about Peter Coyote's name after reading this, because I knew "Coyote" wasn't his real name (and I've always had a sort of crush on him.) From what wikipedia has to say about Peter C, he chose the name "Coyote" "after a spiritual encounter with a coyote." (but it also says "citation needed.") For some reason, I had also thought that Peter Coyote was at least part native American, but it turns out he's a Jewish boy from New York City (born Rachmil Pinchus Ben Mosha Cohon, October 10, 1941.) But, he did organize an event for Leonard Peltier, a native American accused of killing two FBI agents, that Joni, among others, performed at. So, even if the song "Coyote" is not about him, there are links between Joni and Peter Coyote.(article here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1140) >________________________________ > From: David Marine >To: Anita >Cc: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:20:48 PM >Subject: Re: Coyote > > >Thanks for the info, Anita. And Moni, thanks for the further clarification regarding Sam Shephard. I don't even know why I mentioned the speculation about who Coyote was written "about." It's really the iconography of the coyote in Native American lore that I find so interesting. I did of course check the website database first, but I didn't find any instances of Joni specifically talking about it. > >I'm not well versed in the various First People stories: what little I know comes from Joni and the Carlos Castaneda books. But I love these stories and find them very compelling... the idea that we can learn about our human nature by observing the natural world around us, and the various aspects of our character that are represented by the animals. > >Best, > >David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:59:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Subject: NJC - Once with Glen Hansard airs at 2:15 ET Sorry for the short notice but I just saw that Once airs at 2:15 ET on the Sundance Channel for those Glen Hansard fans out there. He was the highlight of the Joni Jazz concert at the Hollywood Bowl a year and a half ago. http://www.sundancechannel.com/films/once ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 20:12:16 -0400 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Coyote If it helps the poet Anne Waldman, who was on the Rolling Thunder tour, where the song was first unveiled, told me that Coyote was definitely Sam Shepard. She also agreed that Joni is amazing! Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Moni Kellermann wrote: >Am 28.04.2013 10:21, Wie David Marine so vortrefflich formulierte: >> I've read from time to time the speculation that the song "Coyote" >> referred to the actor Peter Coyote. > >This was mentioned and more or less debunked in 1999 in an interview >between the late Wally Breese and David Lahm: >http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1358 > >As for the previous discussions about Coyote and Sam Shepard which go >back to 2001, see the archives of this list: >https://encrypted.google.com/search?&q=coyote+sam+shepard+site:smoe.org > >On the wikipedia page for the song >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_(song) >it says that "In Chris O'Dell's 2009 autobiography Miss O'Dell she >details an affair she had with married playwright Sam Shepard and states >that Shepard then cheated on her with Joni Mitchell. O'Dell claims that >"Coyote" is written about Sam Shepard." > >Further, this is also discussed in Chapter 14 of Sheila Weller's book >which you can read here (scroll down the page to "Page 421 - Joni >Mitchell writes Coyote": >http://www.girlslikeusthemusic.com/chapter-fourteen/ > >To sum this all up: Coyote is Sam Shepard and not Peter Coyote. There >doesn't seem to be an interview available where Joni would have talked >about this. > > >moni k. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #551 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------