From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #304 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 4 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 304 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Terminology [Susan Tierney McNamara ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:38:29 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Terminology Wow, what a great conversation. I am definitely trying your student test when I get home tonight, Dave. Last week I was practicing with another Tribute musician and she really wanted to sing Let The Wind Carry Me, even though I pleaded with her to pick a guitar song. So I muffed through with chords from the old For The Roses sheet music book, and I kept wishing Robin was there to show her how to get that modulation into the second verse ... me playing Em to G# wasn't cutting it ... Thank God she decided to do Conversation instead. Plus, I love you guys but, "magnet and iron, the souls" is not Woman of Heart or Mind or Let the Wind Carry Me, it's Lesson in Survival. And also, Let the Wind Carry me is about her parents. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Dave Blackburn Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 3:03 PM To: LC Stanley Cc: David Lahm; Mark; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Terminology Kudos to Laura for investigating the neuro-physiology of music pitch AND learning to read music at the same time! I wonder how much research has been done on that subject. Even as something as elementary as a major to minor interval shift has a pretty universally felt effect but I wonder how or if that is measurable in the brain. But even without going heavily scientific I think it's very possible to see how different chord voicings - which are after all multiple interval relationships ringing together - have their own special sonority. Certain intervals ring consonantly and others ring dissonantly. Within each category you can group intervals as strong or mild. For example the Perfect intervals - the octave, fifth and fourth - are strong consonances; the thirds and sixths are mild consonances. In the dissonance camp you have strong dissonance between minor seconds and major sevenths, and mild dissonances between major seconds, minor sevenths and augmented fourths. When you play a chord your brain is decoding multiple layers of vibrating tones which have these sonic relationships. If you've read this far you might like to try this experiment, one that I do with my students: If you are a guitarist play your top E string open and the 2nd string at the fourth fret (D#) and let the two notes rub together, forming a dissonant minor second interval (aka a half step). On the piano simply play the e above middle C and the D# immediately below it. So far you have a powerful dissonant interval. Now also play the B below (3rd string, fourth fret) and listen to all three notes together. The dissonance has been reduced greatly. What happened? Well, instead of two notes ringing together giving us one vibrational relationship we now have three (B to D#, B to E, D# to E) and two of those three fall into the consonant category. So the sum total of the intervals' combined vibration is more consonant than dissonant. If you added another note, like the G# below the B (D string 6th fret) yet another consonant interval gets added into the mix and the original minor second dissonance has all but gone away. To relate this to Joni's "weird chords" for a minute: by playing the guitar in nonstandard tunings she found ways of restructuring the chord intervals (revoicing we'd call it) without having to do any complex hand movements. Some of these had interesting dissonances that are harder to play on standard tuning. Night Ride Home is just a 1-vi-ii-V stock chord progression in C (C, Am, Dm, G) but her open tuning turns that into Cadd9, Am9, Dm11, Gadd9 with droning Cs and Gs sustaining through all four chords. She has effectively revoiced these simple chords to be more resonant and to contain interval dissonances that add more color. Her chord voicings more than her actual progressions were where her innovation as a guitar player really lay though she herself doesn't really make the distinction very often when talking about it. Her piano playing is completely different. In her piano writing the voicings are almost always simple triads over bass notes (but which are not always the roots) but the progressions themselves were what was clever. The little passage in Blond in the Bleachers between "the bands and the roadies" and "trouble to keep 'em" is a mini masterpiece of innovative harmony using simple but unexpected chord movement. Same thing in the bridge of My Old Man. The charts are available for download at the piano transcriptions page of the website if anyone wants to study this further. Putting teacher's chalk away.. Dave On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:52 AM, LC Stanley wrote: > "Why is it so important to know the root of the chord? Because the > roots of the chords will sound whether we want them to or not, whether > or not the alphabetical symbol is correct. The root progression which > emerges may not coincide with what we think we have written; it may be > better or it may be worse; but art does not permit chance. The root progression supports the work. > The total root progression is heard as a substantive element, almost > like another melody, and it determines the tonal basis of the music. > And the tonal basis of a piece is very important to the construction > of themes and to the orchestration." Russo, William (1975). Jazz > Composition and Orchestration, p.28. > > > Hi Friends, > > I am learning to read music so this conversation interests me. The > root they say is the base note or the lowest pitch, unless the chord > is inverted. Trip how that is what we hear as the above quote says, > "the roots of chords will sound whether we want them to or not." That > has to be because of the way our inner ear detects the sound. Got me > thinking of the placement theory of the basilar membrane of the inner > ear. This membrane is like a ribbon that spirals around in the inner > ear and is bounded by fluids so it takes a ride when sound hits the > ear drum and eventually makes the fluid around the ribbon-like > membrane move. The way the fluid is pushed by the sound causes > differences of movement along the spiraling membrane - the lowest > pitched (like a baseball?!) tones move the part of the membrane that is furthest away from where the sound first started the movement of the fluid. > So the root note is the note that is further down the basilar membrane > in the inner ear than are the other notes of the chord. The membrane > has little hair cells on it that connect eventually with the brain. > The little hair cell receptor neurons where the base note moves the > membrane must be stimulated first or great than the hair cells of the > other notes of the chord. > > So many questions come to my mind about all of this working of music > and the stimulation of the inner ear, creating the limits of what we > hear. Usually when neurons are stimulated there is a threshold based > on sodium moving through the skin (cell membrane) of the neuron to the > inside of neuron. So probably the base note neurons reach their threshold of activation > before the neurons that react to the other notes of the chord. I'm convinced > that physical nature determines everything we perceive and is the > basis of our choices, like what sound we will and won't hear in a > chord... regardless of what we want to hear or want to think. Change > the physical environment around us and it opens a whole new world > within us... good or bad. It becomes a social issue. Music > physically moves people, like a drug. Time to take a shot of Joni. Think I'll start with "A Case of You." > > Love, > Laura > ________________________________ > From: David Lahm > To: Mark > > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 > 7:10 PM > Subject: Re: Terminology > > If Guerin was one of the people who first introduced her to jazz, I > would guess that he helped her deal with the swinging pulse of jazz, > so different from other musics. "Where one is" means, literally, the > downbeat of a measure. If you want to really put a musician down on > the basis of his/her rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't > know where 1 is." > > > DAVID LAHM > > > > On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark > wrote: > >> From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': >> >> I would > especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, >> New >> > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep >> > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The >> > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord >> > and >> where 1 was. >> >> For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I > either read an interview >> somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that > she had written b 1b >> and >> that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord > structure (musicians, help >> me >> out here!). >> >> From Tom Scott referring to > his first sessions with Joni on b For the >> Rosesb : b But with Joni it was > different, because as gifted and talented >> and fantastic as she is, she has > no technical knowledge whatsoever. She >> didn't >> even know the names of the > notes on the piano. It's all feeling and >> instinct.b >> >> It seems that if she > took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have >> known how to read > elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the >> piano were. But I > do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part >> in >> turning her off > to formal musical training. When she started playing in >> open >> tunings on > the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that >> interested her > or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in >> her >> head. > Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell >> by >> the > wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of >> the >> > chords she was playing or even the notes. >> >> But it does seem that John > Guerin taught her some of what chord and >> rhythmic >> structure - b the root > of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and >> it came in useful as she > forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . >> >> Mark in Seattle >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: Sally >> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM >> To: > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com >> Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn >> Subject: Re: > Terminology >> >> Hey Jim, (et al) >> Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the > word "loupe" myself! Lol! >> Anymore we >> just bump the darn thing up on the > PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, >> Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm > sure she knows her way around a loupe >> and >> lots of other photo equipment > fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done >> any >> darkroom work! >> As for > the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always >> that >> like > anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the >> inception...in >> > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). >> >> >> Sent > from Confunction Junction on my iPhone >> >> On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: >> >>> Dave Blackburn said in part, >>> In > other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the >> one >>> > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! >>> seems very aware of technique and > terminology.> >>> >>> Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her > a proof sheet >> and >> she >>> immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was > slightly surprised that >> she >>> knew the name for a photographer's > magnifier. >>> >>> In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni > thanked someone >> for >>> teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a > musician so I don't >> know >>> that but I was surprised that she had made so > many albums without that >>> knowledge. >>> >>> Jim L ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #304 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------