From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #303 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 4 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 303 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- 4th Annual Joni Mitchell Tribute, Ithaca, NY, March 8 [Susan Tierney McNa] Re: Terminology [LC Stanley ] Re: Terminology [Dave Blackburn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 14:59:27 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: 4th Annual Joni Mitchell Tribute, Ithaca, NY, March 8 Hi, Just wanted to remind anyone who lives in the area of central Upstate New York, there is an awesome Joni Tribute concert on Friday, featuring many of Ithaca's best musicians (I include myself in there loosely). :) I will be playing The Gallery and That Song About The Midway and I will be backing Amelia Burns on Woman of Heart and Mind and Conversation. These performances have 25 percent tuning risk this year, since I will be utilizing two guitars (4 different tunings). Playing a Joni tribute concert always gets my heart racing!!!! :) If anyone from the list decides to come, let me know and we can gab after the concert. I would love to see you!! Take care, Sue 4th Annual Joni Mitchell Tribute, Ithaca, NY, March 8 February 18, 2013 The Community School of Music & Arts and CFCU present The 4th Annual Joni Mitchell Tribute Concert Friday, March 8th, 2013 at 7:00 p.m. 3rd Floor Stage, CSMA, 330 E. State/MLK, Ithaca NY Ithaca loves Joni Mitchell, and they will prove it again at the 4th Annual Joni Mitchell Tribute Concert, March 8 at the Community School of Music and Arts. Many of Ithaca's best musicians will return for what has proven to be an exhilarating exhibition of Joni Mitchell's rich and varied catalogue. This year's lineup includes Amelia Burns, Anna Coogan, Bev Fitzpatrick, Colleen Kattau, Cookie Coogan, Eric and Christine, Joe Gaylord, Kara Eaton, Maggie Whitehead, Mike Allinger, Mollie MacMillan, Patti Witten, Sim Redmond & Jen Middaugh, Susan Terwilliger and Sue Tierney McNamara. A $10 donation benefits the CSMA Arts Education Programs Susan Tierney McNamara Prospect Research Officer Office of Prospect Development Alumni Affairs and Development Cornell University 349L, 130 Seneca Place Ithaca, NY 14850 phone: 607-255-3871 fax: 607-254-7166 email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:52:38 -0800 (PST) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: Terminology "Why is it so important to know the root of the chord? Because the roots of the chords will sound whether we want them to or not, whether or not the alphabetical symbol is correct. The root progression which emerges may not coincide with what we think we have written; it may be better or it may be worse; but art does not permit chance. The root progression supports the work. The total root progression is heard as a substantive element, almost like another melody, and it determines the tonal basis of the music. And the tonal basis of a piece is very important to the construction of themes and to the orchestration." Russo, William (1975). Jazz Composition and Orchestration, p.28. Hi Friends, I am learning to read music so this conversation interests me. The root they say is the base note or the lowest pitch, unless the chord is inverted. Trip how that is what we hear as the above quote says, "the roots of chords will sound whether we want them to or not." That has to be because of the way our inner ear detects the sound. Got me thinking of the placement theory of the basilar membrane of the inner ear. This membrane is like a ribbon that spirals around in the inner ear and is bounded by fluids so it takes a ride when sound hits the ear drum and eventually makes the fluid around the ribbon-like membrane move. The way the fluid is pushed by the sound causes differences of movement along the spiraling membrane - the lowest pitched (like a baseball?!) tones move the part of the membrane that is furthest away from where the sound first started the movement of the fluid. So the root note is the note that is further down the basilar membrane in the inner ear than are the other notes of the chord. The membrane has little hair cells on it that connect eventually with the brain. The little hair cell receptor neurons where the base note moves the membrane must be stimulated first or great than the hair cells of the other notes of the chord. So many questions come to my mind about all of this working of music and the stimulation of the inner ear, creating the limits of what we hear. Usually when neurons are stimulated there is a threshold based on sodium moving through the skin (cell membrane) of the neuron to the inside of neuron. So probably the base note neurons reach their threshold of activation before the neurons that react to the other notes of the chord. I'm convinced that physical nature determines everything we perceive and is the basis of our choices, like what sound we will and won't hear in a chord... regardless of what we want to hear or want to think. Change the physical environment around us and it opens a whole new world within us... good or bad. It becomes a social issue. Music physically moves people, like a drug. Time to take a shot of Joni. Think I'll start with "A Case of You." Love, Laura ________________________________ From: David Lahm To: Mark Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Terminology If Guerin was one of the people who first introduced her to jazz, I would guess that he helped her deal with the swinging pulse of jazz, so different from other musics. "Where one is" means, literally, the downbeat of a measure. If you want to really put a musician down on the basis of his/her rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't know where 1 is." DAVID LAHM On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark wrote: > From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': > > I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, > New > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord > and > where 1 was. > > For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I either read an interview > somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b 1b > and > that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help > me > out here!). > > From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on b For the > Rosesb : b But with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented > and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She > didn't > even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and > instinct.b > > It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have > known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the > piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part > in > turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in > open > tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that > interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in > her > head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell > by > the wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of > the > chords she was playing or even the notes. > > But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and > rhythmic > structure - b the root of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and > it came in useful as she forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM > To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Terminology > > Hey Jim, (et al) > Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! > Anymore we > just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, > Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe > and > lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done > any > darkroom work! > As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always > that > like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the > inception...in > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). > > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > > Dave Blackburn said in part, > > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the > one > > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet > and > she > > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that > she > > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone > for > > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't > know > > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > > knowledge. > > > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 12:02:43 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Terminology Kudos to Laura for investigating the neuro-physiology of music pitch AND learning to read music at the same time! I wonder how much research has been done on that subject. Even as something as elementary as a major to minor interval shift has a pretty universally felt effect but I wonder how or if that is measurable in the brain. But even without going heavily scientific I think it's very possible to see how different chord voicings - which are after all multiple interval relationships ringing together - have their own special sonority. Certain intervals ring consonantly and others ring dissonantly. Within each category you can group intervals as strong or mild. For example the Perfect intervals - the octave, fifth and fourth - are strong consonances; the thirds and sixths are mild consonances. In the dissonance camp you have strong dissonance between minor seconds and major sevenths, and mild dissonances between major seconds, minor sevenths and augmented fourths. When you play a chord your brain is decoding multiple layers of vibrating tones which have these sonic relationships. If you've read this far you might like to try this experiment, one that I do with my students: If you are a guitarist play your top E string open and the 2nd string at the fourth fret (D#) and let the two notes rub together, forming a dissonant minor second interval (aka a half step). On the piano simply play the e above middle C and the D# immediately below it. So far you have a powerful dissonant interval. Now also play the B below (3rd string, fourth fret) and listen to all three notes together. The dissonance has been reduced greatly. What happened? Well, instead of two notes ringing together giving us one vibrational relationship we now have three (B to D#, B to E, D# to E) and two of those three fall into the consonant category. So the sum total of the intervals' combined vibration is more consonant than dissonant. If you added another note, like the G# below the B (D string 6th fret) yet another consonant interval gets added into the mix and the original minor second dissonance has all but gone away. To relate this to Joni's "weird chords" for a minute: by playing the guitar in nonstandard tunings she found ways of restructuring the chord intervals (revoicing we'd call it) without having to do any complex hand movements. Some of these had interesting dissonances that are harder to play on standard tuning. Night Ride Home is just a 1-vi-ii-V stock chord progression in C (C, Am, Dm, G) but her open tuning turns that into Cadd9, Am9, Dm11, Gadd9 with droning Cs and Gs sustaining through all four chords. She has effectively revoiced these simple chords to be more resonant and to contain interval dissonances that add more color. Her chord voicings more than her actual progressions were where her innovation as a guitar player really lay though she herself doesn't really make the distinction very often when talking about it. Her piano playing is completely different. In her piano writing the voicings are almost always simple triads over bass notes (but which are not always the roots) but the progressions themselves were what was clever. The little passage in Blond in the Bleachers between "the bands and the roadies" and "trouble to keep 'em" is a mini masterpiece of innovative harmony using simple but unexpected chord movement. Same thing in the bridge of My Old Man. The charts are available for download at the piano transcriptions page of the website if anyone wants to study this further. Putting teacher's chalk away.. Dave On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:52 AM, LC Stanley wrote: > "Why is it so important to know the root of the chord? Because the roots of > the chords will sound whether we want them to or not, whether or not the > alphabetical symbol is correct. The root progression which emerges may not > coincide with what we think we have written; it may be better or it may be > worse; but art does not permit chance. The root progression supports the work. > The total root progression is heard as a substantive element, almost like > another melody, and it determines the tonal basis of the music. And the tonal > basis of a piece is very important to the construction of themes and to the > orchestration." Russo, William (1975). Jazz Composition and Orchestration, > p.28. > > > Hi Friends, > > I am learning to read music so this conversation > interests me. The root they say is the base note or the lowest pitch, unless > the chord is inverted. Trip how that is what we hear as the above quote says, > "the roots of chords will sound whether we want them to or not." That has to > be because of the way our inner ear detects the sound. Got me thinking of the > placement theory of the basilar membrane of the inner ear. This membrane is > like a ribbon that spirals around in the inner ear and is bounded by fluids so > it takes a ride when sound hits the ear drum and eventually makes the fluid > around the ribbon-like membrane move. The way the fluid is pushed by the > sound causes differences of movement along the spiraling membrane - the > lowest pitched (like a baseball?!) tones move the part of the membrane that is > furthest away from where the sound first started the movement of the fluid. > So the root note is the note that is further down the basilar > membrane in the inner ear than are the other notes of the chord. The > membrane has little hair cells on it that connect eventually with the brain. > The little hair cell receptor neurons where the base note moves the membrane > must be stimulated first or great than the hair cells of the other notes of > the chord. > > So many questions come to my mind about all of this working of > music and the stimulation of the inner ear, creating the limits of what we > hear. Usually when neurons are stimulated there is a threshold based on > sodium moving through the skin (cell membrane) of the neuron to the inside of > neuron. So probably the base note neurons reach their threshold of activation > before the neurons that react to the other notes of the chord. I'm convinced > that physical nature determines everything we perceive and is the basis of our > choices, like what sound we will and won't hear in a chord... regardless of > what we want to hear or want to think. Change the physical environment around > us and it opens a whole new world within us... good or bad. It becomes a > social issue. Music physically moves people, like a drug. Time to take a > shot of Joni. Think I'll start with "A Case of You." > > Love, > Laura > ________________________________ > From: David Lahm > To: Mark > > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 > 7:10 PM > Subject: Re: Terminology > > If Guerin was one of the people who first > introduced her to jazz, I would > guess that he helped her deal with the > swinging pulse of jazz, so different > from other musics. "Where one is" means, > literally, the downbeat of a > measure. If you want to really put a musician > down on the basis of his/her > rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't > know where 1 is." > > > DAVID LAHM > > > > On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark > wrote: > >> From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': >> >> I would > especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, >> New >> > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep >> > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The >> > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord >> > and >> where 1 was. >> >> For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I > either read an interview >> somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that > she had written b 1b >> and >> that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord > structure (musicians, help >> me >> out here!). >> >> From Tom Scott referring to > his first sessions with Joni on b For the >> Rosesb : b But with Joni it was > different, because as gifted and talented >> and fantastic as she is, she has > no technical knowledge whatsoever. She >> didn't >> even know the names of the > notes on the piano. It's all feeling and >> instinct.b >> >> It seems that if she > took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have >> known how to read > elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the >> piano were. But I > do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part >> in >> turning her off > to formal musical training. When she started playing in >> open >> tunings on > the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that >> interested her > or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in >> her >> head. > Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell >> by >> the > wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of >> the >> > chords she was playing or even the notes. >> >> But it does seem that John > Guerin taught her some of what chord and >> rhythmic >> structure - b the root > of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and >> it came in useful as she > forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . >> >> Mark in Seattle >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: Sally >> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM >> To: > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com >> Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn >> Subject: Re: > Terminology >> >> Hey Jim, (et al) >> Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the > word "loupe" myself! Lol! >> Anymore we >> just bump the darn thing up on the > PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, >> Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm > sure she knows her way around a loupe >> and >> lots of other photo equipment > fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done >> any >> darkroom work! >> As for > the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always >> that >> like > anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the >> inception...in >> > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). >> >> >> Sent > from Confunction Junction on my iPhone >> >> On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: >> >>> Dave Blackburn said in part, >>> In > other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the >> one >>> > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! >>> seems very aware of technique and > terminology.> >>> >>> Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her > a proof sheet >> and >> she >>> immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was > slightly surprised that >> she >>> knew the name for a photographer's > magnifier. >>> >>> In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni > thanked someone >> for >>> teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a > musician so I don't >> know >>> that but I was surprised that she had made so > many albums without that >>> knowledge. >>> >>> Jim L ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #303 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------