From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #301 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 4 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 301 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Terminology [Sally ] Re: Terminology ["Mark" ] Re: Terminology [David Lahm ] A Mouth Like Yours - Trudy Taylor - VIDEO [est86mlm@ameritech.net] Re: A mouth like yours. . . . and canada [Laura Stanley ] Re: Old Lady of the Year [Richard Flynn ] Re: Old Lady of the Year [Richard Flynn ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #82 ["Mark L. Levinson" ] Girls Like Us [Steve Dulson ] Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. [Anita G Subject: Re: Terminology Wow Mark...interesting. I had always read that attribution from the liner notes on the record in a much more abstract way. If it is in fact a "1", that would put a different spin on it. Although in keeping to form, she probably meant it in both senses. Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, "Mark" wrote: > From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': > > I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, New York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord and where 1 was. > > For years I read that as where bIb was. Then I either read an interview somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b1b and that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help me out here!). > > From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on bFor the Rosesb: bBut with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and instinct.b > > It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part in turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in open tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in her head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell by the wayside. She didnbt need to know the technical names, the names of the chords she was playing or even the notes. > > But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and rhythmic structure - bthe root of the chord and where 1 wasb- were all about and it came in useful as she forged ahead into her bjazz periodb. > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM > To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Terminology > > Hey Jim, (et al) > Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! Anymore we just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe and lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done any darkroom work! > As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always that like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the inception...in this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). > > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > > Dave Blackburn said in part, > > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet and she > > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that she > > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone for > > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't know > > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > > knowledge. > > > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:14:37 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Terminology From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, New York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord and where 1 was. For years I read that as where bIb was. Then I either read an interview somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b1b and that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help me out here!). From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on bFor the Rosesb: bBut with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She didn't even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and instinct.b It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part in turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in open tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in her head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell by the wayside. She didnbt need to know the technical names, the names of the chords she was playing or even the notes. But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and rhythmic structure - bthe root of the chord and where 1 wasb- were all about and it came in useful as she forged ahead into her bjazz periodb. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Sally Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Terminology Hey Jim, (et al) Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! Anymore we just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe and lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done any darkroom work! As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always that like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the inception...in this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > Dave Blackburn said in part, > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet and she > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that she > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone for > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't know > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > knowledge. > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 20:10:51 -0500 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: Terminology If Guerin was one of the people who first introduced her to jazz, I would guess that he helped her deal with the swinging pulse of jazz, so different from other musics. "Where one is" means, literally, the downbeat of a measure. If you want to really put a musician down on the basis of his/her rhythmic ineptitude, you'd say "that cat doesn't know where 1 is." DAVID LAHM On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Mark wrote: > From liner notes for 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns': > > I would especially like to thank Myrt and Bill Anderson, North Battleford, > New > York, Saskatoon, Bel-Air, Burbank, Burundi, Orange County, the deep, deep > heart of Dixie, Blue, National Geographic Magazine, Helpful Henry The > Housewife's Delight - and John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord > and > where 1 was. > > For years I read that as where b Ib was. Then I either read an interview > somewhere or somebody on the JMDL pointed out that she had written b 1b > and > that it referred to either a rhythmic or chord structure (musicians, help > me > out here!). > > From Tom Scott referring to his first sessions with Joni on b For the > Rosesb : b But with Joni it was different, because as gifted and talented > and fantastic as she is, she has no technical knowledge whatsoever. She > didn't > even know the names of the notes on the piano. It's all feeling and > instinct.b > > It seems that if she took piano lessons when she was a kid, she must have > known how to read elemental scales, etc. and known where the notes on the > piano were. But I do think that knuckle rapping teacher played a big part > in > turning her off to formal musical training. When she started playing in > open > tunings on the guitar, she was fiddling around, finding the sounds that > interested her or forming melodies that fit with her words and what was in > her > head. Whatever she may have picked up at age 7, learning the piano, fell > by > the wayside. She didnb t need to know the technical names, the names of > the > chords she was playing or even the notes. > > But it does seem that John Guerin taught her some of what chord and > rhythmic > structure - b the root of the chord and where 1 wasb - were all about and > it came in useful as she forged ahead into her b jazz periodb . > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:08 PM > To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Cc: JMDL ; Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Terminology > > Hey Jim, (et al) > Well...I was nostalgic just hearing the word "loupe" myself! Lol! > Anymore we > just bump the darn thing up on the PC! Much to my disdain! But you know, > Joni's not a bad photographer so I'm sure she knows her way around a loupe > and > lots of other photo equipment fairly well! ;). Wonder if she's ever done > any > darkroom work! > As for the "root of the chord"...I'm not sure but my feeling was always > that > like anyone in the arts...she's chasing the thing back to the > inception...in > this case, the silence. Therein lies the root I might guess! ;). > > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > > Dave Blackburn said in part, > > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the > one > > she talks about in this Youtube, she ! > > seems very aware of technique and terminology.> > > > > Yeah. In a random video, a still photographer handed her a proof sheet > and > she > > immediately asked, "Do you have a loupe?" I was slightly surprised that > she > > knew the name for a photographer's magnifier. > > > > In the liner notes for The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Joni thanked someone > for > > teaching her what the root of a chord is. I'm not a musician so I don't > know > > that but I was surprised that she had made so many albums without that > > knowledge. > > > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:14:09 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: A Mouth Like Yours - Trudy Taylor - VIDEO Seem to remember a discussion where the conclusion was that this was about James' Mother, Trudy. The basis was that Joni and Trudy were good friends. I thought there was a discussion that the Taylor's had a bed & breakfast on the water and Joni's picture was hanging in the dining area......long after James & Joni were no longer a couple. Like Joni, Trudy sings and is a painter and is also well-educated and I can just imagine the two of them having good, lengthy conversations. I couldn't find anything on this just now, but a while ago I found a YouTube video where someone posted that they know Trudy Taylor and Trudy keeps a jar of seashells that Joni gave her in a bedroom of her home. Here's a video of Trudy Taylor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_d0fqGnpxc "Vice Dean Etta Pisano conducted the interview of Ms. Taylor, which covered topics including Ms. Taylors memories and impressions of her time in Chapel Hill, her family, and her experiences in the School of Medicine. The interview was recorded for inclusion in the oral history collection of the Center for the Study of the American South." Get into the mind of 90 year-old Trudy Taylor here: http://www.mvartsandideas.com/ideas/interviews/madame-i-have-no-idea There is a real similarity with these two woman and their thought process, busy minds, freedom, etc. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 22:11:16 -0600 From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: A mouth like yours. . . . and canada Yeah, a bad mouth... Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Michael Paz wrote: > is it the shape of the mouth and what it looks like or > was it the language (possibly foul) that it spoke?? > > Michael Paz > michael@thepazgroup.com > > > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > "She knew your life > She knew your devil and your deeds." > > I always thought It was a lover of his . . A former lover. > > And this about "I drew a map of Canada." Love that line > > Have you ever tried to draw a map of Canada? With all her water bodies? > Kind of difficult to draw the map. . > > Smile > > Take a look at a map (of Canada). > > xo > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:06:39 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Old Lady of the Year Joniphiles - Remember that "Old Lady of the Year" article/graph that Rolling Stone allegedly published in 1971ish? Does anyone have a copy of that? If I remember correctly, RS never really published anything using that phrase, but it's become an urban legend anyway. I used to have a PDF of the actual from RS, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone? Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:35:41 -0500 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Old Lady of the Year Hollywood's Hot 100, I mean. Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ On Mar 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > Remember that "Old Lady of the Year" article/graph that Rolling Stone allegedly published in 1971ish? Does anyone have a copy of that? If I remember correctly, RS never really published anything using that phrase, but it's become an urban legend anyway. > I used to have a PDF of the actual from RS, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone? > Thanks, > Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:34:12 -0500 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Old Lady of the Year The chart called "Hot 100" is on pp. 26 and 27 of the February 3,1972 issue. Don't have a way to get a PDF from the RS web archive. Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ On Mar 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > Remember that "Old Lady of the Year" article/graph that Rolling Stone allegedly published in 1971ish? Does anyone have a copy of that? If I remember correctly, RS never really published anything using that phrase, but it's become an urban legend anyway. > I used to have a PDF of the actual from RS, but I can't put my finger on it. Anyone? > Thanks, > Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 00:34:59 +0200 From: "Mark L. Levinson" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #82 On 02/03/2013 23:22, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Anyone else getting an "invalid link" on this? Maybe a temporary issue? I got "invalid link" too. I assumed the link had expired. - -- - -------------------------------------------- Mark L. Levinson - nosnivel@netvision.net.il - -------------------------------------------- "My Way" is a lousy song. https://www.facebook.com/pages/MY-WAY-is-a-lousy-song/156582624417310 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 10:12:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Retro Covers, Volume 80 Around the world in 80 covers! Or 80 volumes, which is closer to around 1,500 covers. A fun batch this is - some foreign language, some rarities, some folks you know and some you don't. And one from our own. http://tinyurl.com/covers80 1. Sian Phillips - Both Sides Now 2. Mike Vasas - - A Case Of You 3. Richard Flynn - The Circle Game 4. Don MacGregor - Both Sides Now 5. Katy Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi 6. Mike Beck - Carey 7. Sally Walker - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 8. Agnes Heginger & Georg Breinschmid - Black Crow 9. Lisa Alibrandi - Night Ride Home 10. Lisa Alibrandi - Big Yellow Taxi 11. Sarah's Swing Set - Twisted 12. Soundtations - Woodstock 13. Malene Mortensen - All I Want 14. Bob Moline - Both Sides Now 15. Gwendolyn Joy - Help Me 16. Ela Ruiz - Todo Lo Que Quiero 17. Ela Ruiz - All I Want 18. Cher - Big Yellow Taxi 19. Ellipsis - I Don't Know Where I Stand If you missed it the first time, enjoy it now! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 14:24:53 -0500 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Girls Like Us Kakki wrote: >Graham always seems to be the only one who is a true gentleman >and loyal friend. Maybe James Taylor, too. Sorry, Kakki, JT lost me permanently with his "Yeah, Joni was my bitch" remark on PBS....with his young wife and kids sitting right there. Definitely agree on Graham, though! *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA FAR-West (Folk Alliance Region - West) tinkersown@ca.rr.com www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:43:29 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is fascinating. I couldn't help feeling quite pleased that Joni felt that both Prince and us English 'got' HOSL, but I just couldn't thinking how much I would have simply LOVED to have anyone who had even listened to it at the time. How lonely it was being a Joni fan till the birth of the www. And how hard to get any information about her. If I didn't buy the weekly music papers, I didn't know what was going on anywhere. Hard to believe, these days. One thing that made me smile was at the point of the interview mid way through, the interviewer comments to Joni an astonishing range of of people cite her as an influence and he says something like 'Has that surprised you?' and Joni has a small glance at the camera at that point! I laughed out loud, thinking she was going to say 'No surprise at all.I know I am a genius' - but she is far more gracious but I think she might have weighed up her response in that moment. Anyway, thanks so much for sending this link, Michael. It was great to watch on a grey Sunday afternoon. Anita On 03/03/2013, Michael quebec wrote: > Hello everyone, > > You know how Youtube has this way of tracking one's fields of interest and > throwing up personalized suggestions to watch ? > > Well, a great Joni vid came up for me today, from Europe but shot in LA, > one > that I had never seen before, dating from 1991. It's quite long (34 mins), > beginning with a lengthy segment portraying the technical aspects of the > newly-made CIFTC video. It's fascinating to see Joni the artist in a > relaxed, > work mode, critical of the technology and in some ways at its mercy, but > exploiting it to her advantage. Then, we get to see her in a photo shoot > (she > favors her left side), and a short but pithy interview on her music and the > 80's. And saving the best for last, a string by string breakdown of the > chord > structure of Night Ride Home, beginning at 28:00 mins. Not only did this > last > bit blow me away (the sound, the visuals, her playing) but it also brought > tears to my eyes, knowing that all this beauty is now behind her, and > probably > will nevermore be revisited. What is it about her music that resonates so > deeply ? She proposes an answer... > > For your viewing pleasure : > > http://youtu.be/kjdNrWtCQWk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:30:01 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Joni on CIFTC, Madonna, Prince, her music, chords of inquiry, NRH, etc. Joni's guitar technique in close up on this is just brilliant, Dave, as you say. What's quite interesting to me, as someone with a basic grasp of music theory, is Joni saying something along the lines (as I understood it) that the piano gave her more notes than the guitar. Part of the reason, so she says in this interview, for her alternative tunings was it gave more notes and colour to her guitar. I always felt Joni's piano playing really was quite limited and, with some exceptions, the piano songs no where in the league of her guitar playing in terms of the 'colour'. That syncopation you talk of Dave with her right hand on guitar - there's nothing quite like that for me in most of her piano songs. Maybe it's about her left hand not being very strong, which she mentions in the interview. Making up over 50 tunings to cover for a left hand that wasn't very strong and to find musical 'colour' was so innovative. Combine that a right hand that seems like it can do almost anything and you have a recipe for something special. I imagine you need 2 really good independent hands to play piano brilliantly.I don't think Joni had that, but maybe she could move into piano tuning. I wonder where that might lead! Anita On 03/03/2013, Dave Blackburn wrote: > I really enjoyed it too, especially the close ups of her wonderfully > syncopated right hand slap/upbrush/pluck technique and the custom made > guitar itself. > > But I remain curious why or even how someone as bright as Joni managed to > avoid learning almost anything about music theory. One would think she'd > want to know the names of her preferred chords so she could easily > communicate with her musicians. In some ways her understanding of music is > very much that of a novice (major chords are happy, minor chords are sad) > but of course the work she was able to produce was original and > sophisticated. Tom Scott said in a 1974 interview I just read, in advance of > our For The Roses concert on April 6th, that she didn't even know the names > of the notes on the piano back then when he first recorded with her; for > someone so inquisitive and brilliant that must have taken a lot of willpower > to prevent herself from learning basic stuff - in case, I imagine, she > feared it might detract from her purely emotional connection to the music. > In other fields, like painting, or even the filming of a video like the one > she talks about in this Youtube, she seems very aware of technique and > terminology. > > Dave > > > > On Mar 3, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Anita G wrote: > >> Michael. this is a wonderful find. I have so enjoyed watching it and, >> like David, found the description of the guitar fascinating - and what >> I wouldn't give to see that guitar! In fact, the whole thing is >> fascinating. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #301 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------