From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #231 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, February 14 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 231 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TS as Joni [Phyliss Ward ] Re: David Crosby tells Joni what to wear (was RE: TS as Joni) [Catherine ] RE: David Crosby tells Joni what to wear (was RE: TS as Joni) [Susan Tier] The TS debate [Sally ] Re: TS is no Joni [Gerald Kent ] Re: TS is no Joni [Dave Blackburn ] Re: TS is no Joni [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] TS is no Joni [Kevin Foehr ] re: Howard mentions Joni, twice [c Karma ] RE: New Library item: The show goes on [Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: Re: TS as Joni I hear you on the latter Kakki. Not my favorite portrayal of our dear Joan. Squirmy for sure. Phyliss On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:18 PM, "kbhla" wrote: > I'm neutral on the casting of TS as Joni in Girls Like Us (though I love > Catherine's suggestion of Jennifer Lawrence) and more concerned about how > the film will portray the "National Enquirer" type tales from ex-lovers and > husbands sourced in the book. Some of the stuff really made me squirm and > felt pretty intrusive and, well, I'll stop there. > > > > As for Joni's Glam period - "everything comes and goes, marked by lovers and > styles of clothes" ;-) > > > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:01:34 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: David Crosby tells Joni what to wear (was RE: TS as Joni) Agreed. Joni has always been fashion-conscious, at least to these eyes. She even worked as a model for a time. Even her high-school pictures suggest she liked looking good. (I don't have a problem with that either.) And tying it back in with the whole (dare I mention the name?) Taylor Swift thing: in order to be successful, a person will dress the way they think will get them somewhere. I can't believe that I know some of the words to a TS song, but here goes: "But she wears short skirts, I wear T-shirts She's Cheer Captain and I'm on the bleachers." >________________________________ > From: Michael Flaherty >To: Susan Tierney McNamara ; Phyliss Ward ; kbhla >Cc: "" >Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:29:27 AM >Subject: Re: David Crosby tells Joni what to wear (was RE: TS as Joni) > >> but I'm sure she would have probably switched from satin and pearls to gauze >and beads anyway, since she loved fashion. > > >Yes, she does. I haven't >followed this thread closely, but a couple posts seemed to imply that Joni >doesn't care about such shallow things, but the pictorial record shows >otherwise (which I personally have no problem with whatsoever). > >Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 16:47:07 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: David Crosby tells Joni what to wear (was RE: TS as Joni) This was true of Joni from a very young age. From a review of Katherine Monk's book at the JM.com site, "'I'm a clothes horse,' she told a reporter in 1979. 'I love fashion.' She wrote a column for her high school newspaper entitled "Fads and Fashions," and earned money to buy her own wardrobe working after hours at a store called Ricki's Ladies Wear." Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Michael Flaherty [mailto:mflaher3@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:29 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Phyliss Ward; kbhla Cc: Subject: Re: David Crosby tells Joni what to wear (was RE: TS as Joni) > but I'm sure she would have probably switched from satin and pearls to gauze and beads anyway, since she loved fashion. Yes, she does. I haven't followed this thread closely, but a couple posts seemed to imply that Joni doesn't care about such shallow things, but the pictorial record shows otherwise (which I personally have no problem with whatsoever). Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:06:24 -0500 From: Sally Subject: The TS debate In reality, Joni could wear a burlap sack and who would give a Crap. The sixties were full of people coming to life, being outlandish, experimenting. Joni was looking for everything...including (I would assume) herself and her place in the madness! How she looked did not define her. I would guess that the Taylor Swift we have been seeing lately in magazine print and so forth, is on a serious campaign to land the role in the movie. It's probably not the 'real' her anyway. I will say this, I think we are debating it because we revere Joni, and we want people to be drawn to her music because of who she is. If Taylor Swift can pull that off, no problem. I just don't want Joni and her art to be marginalized in favor of some idiotic portrayal. I was NOT a fan of the book, but am a fan of all three of those wonderful artists on whom it was based. I wonder who will be cast in the other parts. Finally, I am a huge fan of Bonnie Raitt from way back. Bonnie has been misunderstood by most non-listeners from the start of her career. Nothing grates on my nerves more than to have her mentioned as a "country artist", especially in circles where people should know better. It's kind of like calling Led Zep a metal band. I DO care how artists are portrayed. If they bother to write about them, make movies about them, whatever...care should be taken to be accurate and respectful. It matters to fans and it sure as hell must matter to the artists! Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Feb 13, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Kevin Foehr wrote: > Say it ain't so, Gerald. You guys are breaking my heart. > > She will always > be, in my mind, the quintessential "earth mother" whose intelligence causes > her to transcend mainstream culture, politics, and commercialization of her > art. I don't think anyone who wrote lyrics like hers could be anything other > than that. > > Besides, everyone (or very nearly so) was conservative and > mainstream in the 50s and early 60s. She intellectually matured and became > "liberated" in the mid 60s just like most other young people at that time. > > Andif money making is the objective of the movie, which I'm sure it is, then > of course TS would be a great choice. And because the whole thing is out of > our hands anyway, why are we even debating it? > > So let them do what they > will with the movie; I'm happy with my Joni fantasies, and I'll shut-up now > and return to ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 10:01:04 -0500 From: Gerald Kent Subject: Re: TS is no Joni I am sorry to disagree Kevin. In her early days joni was very much the "glamor girl" wearing silver mini skirts and very bright lip stick and looking incredibly good. I had the very great pleasure of seeing her in the village in her early 60's per California valley days. Sent from my iPad On Feb 13, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Kevin Foehr wrote: > Hi all, > > I haven't commented on this yet, but I am increasingly disappointed > that this idea of TS playing Joni persists. IMHO, TS is no Joni and shouldn't > play her. She will taint the representation of Joni with her own persona of > mainstream pop success, bright red lipstick, glam, etc. > > Joni was never > mainstream, and she was not into glam in the 60s. Look at her on the cover of > FTR; does that look like TS? And I don't mean just her physical features. > I'm talking about her clothes and make-up and the backdrop/location conveying > environmentalism, natural beauty, individuality (not glamorous fashion), > solitude, and peace. This is the image of Joni I would like to see conveyed > in the movie, if there is to be one, and imo, TS can't pull that off. > > Secondly, I really doubt TS would agree to play Joni at this point in her > career. I don't follow pop music these days, but it appears she is near the > top of the heap and near the zenith of her career, so I don't think she would > want to portray someone else. She would want to portray herself, if she did a > movie. I.e., I think she has become too big to play Joni (even though we know > she is no where close to being as great a talent / genius as Joni). > > I think > it would take an unknown actress to pull it off. Joni is unique, so imo, the > actress has to be a blank slate in order to paint Joni's unique persona and > story upon it. > > TS would always be TS in the movie, never Joni. So for TS to > play her would be a travesty. Joni deserves much better. And many who have > been fans of hers for decades, like me, would be deeply disappointed to see > her image besmirched by an inaccurate portrayal of her and her work and all > she has stood for. > > Kevin > > > ________________________________ > From: JMDL > Digest > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Sent: Tuesday, > February 12, 2013 1:26 PM > Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #225 > > > JMDL Digest > Tuesday, February 12 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 225 > > > > ========== > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #222 > [Catherine McKay ] > Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #222 > [LC Stanley ] > Re: She will never, never, > never... ["Randy Remote" Re: She will never, never, > never... [Shari Eaton ] > Re: She will never, never, > never...NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > New Library item: The show > goes on [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] > Re: She will never, never, > never... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > > =?UTF-8?Q?New_Library_item:_Whitney_Houston_Remembere?= > =?UTF-8?Q?d_at_Clive_Davis=E2=80=99s_All_Star_Pre_Grammy_Bash?= [] > RE: JMDL > Digest V2013 #222 [Mary Morris ] > When? > [LC Stanley ] > Re: Piano > transcriptions! ["Randy Remote" ] > Re: She > will never, never, never... [Michael Flaherty Re: She > will never, never, never...NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > Re: She > will never, never, never...NJC [Shari Eaton Subject: Re: TS is no Joni Taylor Swift seems like a down to earth kind of girl despite her runaway success. If she has listened properly to Joni, which she surely has in anticipation of the role if offered, I would imagine she is TOTALLY aware of how diminutive her own talent is by comparison. Joni's fans know it and I'm sure TS does too. But it wouldn't make her turn down the gig. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:33:30 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: TS is no Joni taylor's lyrics are the problem for me. > Thanks Leslie, this gave me a big laugh. Trust me, I am IN NO WAY trying to compare TS' composition skills, lyrically or musically, to those of Joni. I haven't seen anything from TS that begs the comparison. She's not going to be singing HER songs in this movie anyway (and as Richard so accurately points out it may never be green-lighted anyway), so HER abilities as a songwriter don't enter the picture, moving or otherwise. As for her voice, there would be considerations there no doubt unless they use other vocals and dub in over her. The technology they have access to these days has come a long way since they had another vocalist covering for Natalie Wood in West Side Story. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:33:28 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Foehr Subject: TS is no Joni Hi all, I haven't commented on this yet, but I am increasingly disappointed that this idea of TS playing Joni persists. IMHO, TS is no Joni and shouldn't play her. She will taint the representation of Joni with her own persona of mainstream pop success, bright red lipstick, glam, etc. Joni was never mainstream, and she was not into glam in the 60s. Look at her on the cover of FTR; does that look like TS? And I don't mean just her physical features. I'm talking about her clothes and make-up and the backdrop/location conveying environmentalism, natural beauty, individuality (not glamorous fashion), solitude, and peace. This is the image of Joni I would like to see conveyed in the movie, if there is to be one, and imo, TS can't pull that off. Secondly, I really doubt TS would agree to play Joni at this point in her career. I don't follow pop music these days, but it appears she is near the top of the heap and near the zenith of her career, so I don't think she would want to portray someone else. She would want to portray herself, if she did a movie. I.e., I think she has become too big to play Joni (even though we know she is no where close to being as great a talent / genius as Joni). I think it would take an unknown actress to pull it off. Joni is unique, so imo, the actress has to be a blank slate in order to paint Joni's unique persona and story upon it. TS would always be TS in the movie, never Joni. So for TS to play her would be a travesty. Joni deserves much better. And many who have been fans of hers for decades, like me, would be deeply disappointed to see her image besmirched by an inaccurate portrayal of her and her work and all she has stood for. Kevin ________________________________ From: JMDL Digest To: joni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:26 PM Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #225 JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 12 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 225 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #222 [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #222 [LC Stanley ] Re: She will never, never, never... ["Randy Remote" ] Re: She will never, never, never...NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] New Library item: The show goes on [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] Re: She will never, never, never... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] =?UTF-8?Q?New_Library_item:_Whitney_Houston_Remembere?= =?UTF-8?Q?d_at_Clive_Davis=E2=80=99s_All_Star_Pre_Grammy_Bash?= [] RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #222 [Mary Morris ] When? [LC Stanley ] Re: Piano transcriptions! ["Randy Remote" ] Re: She will never, never, never... [Michael Flaherty Subject: re: Howard mentions Joni, twice Makes me want to take a shower. CC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:28:54 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: New Library item: The show goes on I love these two articles!!! But the caption on the picture of Joni with Clive Davis "veteran folk singer" ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!! There, I've said my piece. :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email:B sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:24 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: New Library item: The show goes on Title: The show goes on Publication: Daily Mail Date: 2013.02.09 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2548 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #231 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------