From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #170 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 170 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- guns and. . . njc [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: guns and. . . njc [Lori Renee Fye ] Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Sally ] Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Lori Renee Fye ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:20:40 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: guns and. . . njc I believe if someone intrudes into your house that you are legally allowed to shoot them in NY state. I don't know about the rest of the country. Perhaps someone else could tell us. Marianne >You'd better shoot them in the head or chest, then. You're probably only going to get one chance. Make it count. If you don't kill them you will very likely be facing a >huge lawsuit that will ruin you. >I wonder, though, about folks who say they would definitely shoot but don't have a gun. It often turns out quite a bit differently when you're actually in the situation. If you >really feel that way, Marianne, you should probably get a gun and practice with it, because there really is no room for hesitation or error. >Not advocating anything here, just pointing out some things. >Lori > If someone came into my house for what ever reason > and I had a gun > and I know for certain that they were unwelcomed > and they could potentially harm me > I would definitely shoot them > > even if they were not armed > > (but I do not have a gun) >Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:01:58 +0000 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: guns and. . . njc > If someone came into my house for what ever reason > and I had a gun > and I know for certain that they were unwelcomed > and they could potentially harm me > I would definitely shoot them > > even if they were not armed > > (but I do not have a gun) You'd better shoot them in the head or chest, then. You're probably only going to get one chance. Make it count. If you don't kill them you will very likely be facing a huge lawsuit that will ruin you. I wonder, though, about folks who say they would definitely shoot but don't have a gun. It often turns out quite a bit differently when you're actually in the situation. If you really feel that way, Marianne, you should probably get a gun and practice with it, because there really is no room for hesitation or error. Not advocating anything here, just pointing out some things. Lori Wales ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:44:55 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > to which you now add the possibility that you might take someone's life to protect what? Your computer? Your jewelry? This was SO well put, Dave. As we have heard many times with regard to things like carjackings, if they approach you, just give them the damn car. It's a car... Not worth risking life and limb over...anyone's life! On a different note, my local news this week featured the trial of a police officer who approached a woman in her vehicle who appeared to be sleeping. It seems she was parked in a church parking lot...minding her own business. When he rapped on her window, she panicked...rolled it up, caught his arm in it. I assume this fed her panic and instead of handing over her ID, she clutched it to her and started driving. The cop, who has been cited for excessive force before, shot out the window, and as she drove away, shot at the car five times killing her. Disgusting and sad. The police are often scarier than the citizenry and they have a license to do what they do. I'm thinking the Brits have it right. Is law enforcement in the UK basically still unarmed? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 00:28:32 +0000 From: Lori Renee Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) Sally asked: > I'm thinking the Brits have it right. Is law > enforcement in the UK basically still unarmed? I think it depends on where you are. I live in a smallish seaside town in South Wales, across the street from a rowdy nightclub that attracts a crowd of twenty-somethings. My flat mate and I often sit at our third floor bay window and watch the merriment and the regular bar fights that spill into the street. Yeah, it's kind of a sick sort of entertainment, but the "social experiment" of the scene is oddly interesting. The Heddlu (police, and the word sounds sort of like "hethlee" if you're interested) show up pretty regularly. Usually just two cops show up, but occasionally three will show, depending upon the craziness. I've honestly never noticed them wearing guns. I will pay better attention and report back on that. I lived in Wiesbaden, Germany from March to December of last year. I definitely noticed the absence of guns on the Polizei a lot of the time. They may have been carrying them in a concealed manner, but they were not visible. It seems to be more of a rule, at least in Wiesbaden (a city of 273,000 people) that the Polizei respond with force appropriate to the situation. Guns don't seem to be a feature of every police stop there. I mentioned that to some of my American friends on Facebook, and several of them reacted with, "That's nuts! The police must be crazy there, to not show up with guns!" In the US, where there are so many guns that no one knows anymore who's carrying, I suppose it would be crazy for police to show up appearing to be unarmed. That's the difference in the mindset, though, and that difference has to be due, at least in part, to the fact that the police on this side of "the pond" are not nearly as likely to encounter a gun when they respond to a situation. Lori Wales ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: LC Stanley Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) Hi Lori and Phyliss, Reminds me of the Coke commercial... "The Real Thing." What scares me the most here in the USA is the economy and the potential for US involvement with war in other countries. Guns at home aren't going to help with that. I do feel I need a gun at my home. I didn't before our house was violently broken into (door kicked open) during my mother's funeral, and I realized creeps could get inside our house in a flash. We got a security system, but this and dogs didn't deter a second break-in. Our neighbors were broken into a few days ago. Also, we are at the border of city and county, surrounded by woods, and I love to walk, but there are packs of wild dogs in this area. Several years ago I was attacked by a dog as another stood back watching ready to join in so I shot the dog that attacked me and the other ran off. I guess it is the wild, wild, west in my neck of the woods. As for extremists, for sure we've got them here in the Bible Belt. The city is some consolation where people are more open to diversity, but there can be prejudice anywhere. I don't focus on the extremists. They get way too much attention as it is. There is good and bad here in the USA just as in other countries. I might not live in the USA forever, but for now, it is a good place for me to live. Love, Laura ________________________________ From: Lori Renee Fye To: Phyliss S Ward Cc: Catherine McKay ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 3:52 PM Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) Phyliss wrote: As an American, I too have problems with the American "best" thing. Why? > What happened to equality? However, I did feel a bit offended being > referred to as "scary" or "violent" or "religious extremist" en masse. > Some Americans may be. I am not. Neither are any of my friends and family > (ok, a few are religious extremists) I can think of. Let's not stereotype. Well, as Catherine said, there are some really loud, vocal extremists in the US. It would be nice if the non-extremists would become as noticed, or more noticed, but they are not loud by nature and so I guess that would be going against their natural tendencies. The scariest bit about the extremists is that they are the most likely people to have guns, and to use them. Laura pointed out that in the US, as of 2007, there were 88.8 guns per 100 people in the US. So almost 89% of people in the US own at least one gun. In Wales and England, there are 6.2 guns per 100 people; about 6% of people in Wales and England own a gun. In terms of percentages, in my mind I am 83% more likely to be shot in the US than I am in Wales. Yes, I know that everyone who owns a gun isn't likely to shoot someone. Still, there are all sorts of accidents, "caught in crossfire" situations to consider. Eighty-three percent more guns is quite significant, to me. It's not like I am completely anti-gun; I used to be a gun owner in the US. I thought I had a reason, at the time, to have a gun. I really didn't have a reason, though, so I got rid of my pistol before I left for Europe and I walked away from the other gun I had (my ex in California has it). What I can't figure out is why so many Americans seem to feel the need to have a gun. For some people, it's for hunting or target shooting. But what about the rest? What about the people who are telling me they need it for personal protection? If that doesn't speak to a violent society, I don't know what does. And who wants to live with that kind of fear? If I were that fearful, I would move as far as I could get from whatever was causing that fear. (And, actually, that's what I did.) Lori Wales ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:35:21 +0000 From: Gary Hanick Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 The whole "America is best" thing is a spillover from WW2 and the 1950's Cold War. Over the past 40 or 50 years (hard to believe it's been that long!), the US has gotten its cummuppance over and over again. Maybe people are just facing reality. We are as flawed as a nation as anyone else and we've done just as many bad deeds internally and internationally. And it just didn't start in the 20th or 21st centuries. Remember, slavery was legal in this country for many years. It's been so long that we cannot even imagine the horror. The right wing chooses to ignore all of this in a myopic, scary vision that ignores history and hasn't the slightest bit of optimism for the future. Maybe if the gun lovers did not live in so much fear, this would be a non debate. And maybe if we weren't taught to hate and distrust from an early age, there'd be fewer mass shootings and less ignorance about people and things we don't know or understand. I guess I must be the one living in a dream world.... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni-digest@smoe.org] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:19 PM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 JMDL Digest Monday, January 28 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 140 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Phyliss S Ward Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) As an American, I too have problems with the American "best" thing. Why? What happened to equality? However, I did feel a bit offended being referred to as "scary" or "violent" or "religious extremist" en masse. Some Americans may be. I am not. Neither are any of my friends and family (ok, a few are religious extremists) I can think of. Let's not stereotype. On Jan 28, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Lori Renee Fye wrote: >> It's the morbid fascination with guns and extreme >> religion that scares me most > > I am so fed up with the notion > that the US -- or any country -- has to be "the best!" - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #140 ***************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #170 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------