From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #167 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 29 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 167 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 [David Lahm ] RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Phyliss S Ward ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:11:55 -0500 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 I emphatically dispute Gary's contention that "we are just as flawed a nation as anyone else." Likewise his view that we are taught to hate and distrust from an early age. My grand-daughter is in first grade and whenever I visit that classroom, all I hear and see on message boards is "kind and gentle, kind and gentle" It is perhaps only a moderate exaggeration when I say that in today's schools almost any utterance expressing a negative feeling toward another kid is discouraged/censored/disciplined as "bullying." But if anyone cares to read a novel that expresses, with frightening subtlety, "America is best," let me recommend a best-seller from the late 50s: ADVISE AND CONSENT. DAVID LAHM On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Gary Hanick wrote: > The whole "America is best" thing is a spillover from WW2 and the 1950's > Cold War. Over the past 40 or 50 years (hard to believe it's been that > long!), the US has gotten its cummuppance over and over again. Maybe people > are just facing reality. We are as flawed as a nation as anyone else and > we've done just as many bad deeds internally and internationally. And it > just didn't start in the 20th or 21st centuries. Remember, slavery was > legal in this country for many years. It's been so long that we cannot even > imagine the horror. > > The right wing chooses to ignore all of this in a myopic, scary vision > that ignores history and hasn't the slightest bit of optimism for the > future. > > Maybe if the gun lovers did not live in so much fear, this would be a non > debate. And maybe if we weren't taught to hate and distrust from an early > age, there'd be fewer mass shootings and less ignorance about people and > things we don't know or understand. I guess I must be the one living in a > dream world.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni-digest@smoe.org] > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:19 PM > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 > > > JMDL Digest Monday, January 28 2013 Volume 2013 : Number > 140 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Phyliss S Ward > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:49:54 -0500 > From: Phyliss S Ward > Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) > > As an American, I too have problems with the American "best" thing. Why? > What happened to equality? However, I did feel a bit offended being > referred to as "scary" or "violent" or "religious extremist" en masse. > Some Americans may be. I am not. Neither are any of my friends and family > (ok, a few are religious extremists) I can think of. Let's not stereotype. > > > On Jan 28, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Lori Renee Fye wrote: > > >> It's the morbid fascination with guns and extreme > >> religion that scares me most > > > > I am so fed up with the notion > > that the US -- or any country -- has to be "the best!" > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #140 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:21:04 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #140 NJC A note to all who respond to the non-Joni stuff...be sure to put NJC in your subject. The only-Joni folks REALLY don't want to see these and they have a right not to. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:47:06 -0500 From: Phyliss S Ward Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) I do think it is important to note which party won the election for president here, and where the majority of the population stands on these issues, according to polls. Republicans still run many states, and the House of Representatives, but the tide seems to be turning in the correct (left) direction on these issues. On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:11 AM, LC Stanley wrote: > > There is good and bad here in the USA just as in other countries. I might not live in the USA forever, but for now, it is a good place for me to live. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:58:48 +0000 From: clive sax Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #165 Subject: Re: buffy / joni NJC Does anyone know what she means by 'don't make snakes out of worms'?> In the UK we have an idiom 'Don't make mountains out of molehills' The meaning of the expression, which I assume to be similar to worms and snakes is to not make something big out of something small or a slight difficulty into a huge problem. That kind of thing. > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:09:33 -0500 > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #165 > > > JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 29 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 165 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: buffy / joni NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] > An appeal (2) ["John van Tiel" ] > Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #150 [Rozanne Gates ] > Re: Shawn Colvin live stream tonight (Jan 25), 8 pm PST (free!) [Lori Ren] > Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:28:13 -0500 > From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Subject: Re: buffy / joni NJC > > Does anyone know what she means by 'don't make snakes out of worms'?> > > I didn't see the videos but I'm guessing that she's saying that you > shouldn't make something that is essentially harmless into something > that's potentially dangerous. Worms are very soil enriching and I get a > lot less spooked when I see a worm as opposed to seeing a snake. Having > said that, snakes get a bad rap - only a very few will cause us any harm, > most just slither around and keep the rodent population in check. Plus, > "Worms and Ladders" doesn't have the same ring. > > Bob > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:10 -0500 > From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) > > I don't have a gun, never have and never will. While I'm not a fan of > hunting, I have many friends who are. Having a gun for self-defense is > another matter. > > Fear is always the best salesman. The pro-gun folks always paint a picture > of an intruder breaking into your home and there you are poised and ready > with your gun and you blow him or her away. Well, most intruders are going > to break into your home when it's empty as opposed to facing a > confrontation. Odds are that of the things they steal, the gun will be > one. Also, according to statistics, if you have a gun in your home, the > more likely scenario is that YOU will get shot with your own gun by > someone you know. Having a dog is a MUCH better deterrent than having a > gun. Hardly a week goes by in SC that does not see a young kid getting > shot and/or killed because a careless gun owner left one out. > > As for the need to solve the problem by putting MORE guns out there, we've > all seen the photo of Reagan, surrounded by dudes with guns, right before > he got shot. Columbine HAD an armed security guard. Fort Hood was > populated with guys with guns. Seems like unless you're prepared to > constantly walk around with your gun drawn it's not going to do you a > whole lot of good. And as Lori says, who the heck wants to live like that? > > Bob > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:52:38 +0100 > From: "John van Tiel" > Subject: An appeal (2) > > A few days ago I appealed to you, because my financial situation is such > that I am threatened to lose my home. My stroke has paralyzed me so much > that I have hardly been able to work and my income dropped by over 80%. 4 of > you have reacted and I want to thank you for that. However, I am still in > financial dire straits. I spent a significant amount of my savings on my > sabbatical trip of Europe after Claudia and I parted ways and before my > stroke. The medical collapse came completely unexpected and at the worst > time in my financial life. The recovery period ate up all the remainder in > medical costs as I also broke my arm and tore my Achilles heel during the > recovery, which made it even worse (shopping was a crime and an expedition > as I could not walk). By law I have no right to a state income here in the > Netherlands . I still have medical help at homr 4 times a week (I cannot > wash myself, I need a nurse to do that). But will I have a home? > > This is why I appeal to you once again to please help me financially. Please > please please. I need money to eat and to keep my home. My address at Paypal > is: johnvantiel@home.nl. I have always considered the JMDL as the combined > friends that I was always looking for in my life, and they have always came > up to that. Thank you. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:38:33 -0500 > From: Rozanne Gates > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #150 > > Brilliant assessment Lori. > > Rozanne Gates > > > on 1/28/13 7:45 PM, JMDL Digest at owner-joni-digest@smoe.org wrote: > > > > > JMDL Digest Monday, January 28 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 150 > > > > > > > > ========== > > > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > > -------- > > Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) [Lori Renee Fye > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:44:36 +0000 > > From: Lori Renee Fye > > Subject: Re: (NJC) Canada and the US (was Lyrics) > > > >> They've managed to manipulate the news > >> to target patriotic feelings that people > >> have...right to bear arms > > > > I recently wrote something on Facebook about this "right to bear arms" > > nonsense. I really don't know why it's so difficult to understand what the > > framers of the Constitution and its Amendments meant. Those men knew very > > well the proper usage of punctuation -- in particular the comma and the > > semicolon -- and it's very obvious to me what they intended. Let's use the > > First and Second Amendments as examples. > > > > The text of the First Amendment is as follows: > > > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > > > Notice that the First Amendment contains semicolons. > > > > The reason it contains semicolons is because you can take the First > > Amendment apart, so that its phrases can stand alone. All of it is still > > the law, but one part is not dependent upon another part, or the entire > > Amendment, to be the law. In other words, there are three parts to the > > First Amendment, and they operate independently. > > > > In other words: > > > > 1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof. > > > > 2) Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the > > press. > > > > 3) Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people peaceably > > to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. > > > > You don't have to be able to freely exercise religion or speech in order to > > peaceably assemble. You certainly CAN freely exercise religion or speech > > while assembling, but you can also assemble and not say a word at all, or > > even pray. (Oh, and by the way, the very first line in the First Amendment > > means that Christianity is not, and never has been, and hopefully never > > will be, the national religion of the United States.) > > > > The text of the Second Amendment is as follows: > > > > "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, > > the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." > > > > There is not a semicolon in the entire text of the Second Amendment. All of > > its parts were meant to be considered together as a whole. > > > > There really is no other way to interpret this, as it relies on basic, > > established rules of English, particularly as they were established at the > > time the Constitution and the Amendments were written. > > > > Note the key words "well regulated" and "Militia." If the framers of the > > Constitution and the Amendments had intended for every citizen to have the > > right to keep and bear Arms, the Amendment would say, simply: "The right > > of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." > > > > That's not what it says, however. > > > > Therefore, citizens who are not members of a state's National Guard or some > > other well regulated militia do not have a Constitutional right to keep and > > bear Arms. > > > >> right to illegally bomb other countries back into > >> the Stone Age on the off chance they might be > >> doing something we think is bad, etc. > > > > I don't understand why the rest of the world puts up with that, > > particularly from the only country that ever used something as horrifying > > as the bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. > > > > Lori > > Wales > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #150 > > ***************************** > > > > ------- > > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > > ------- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:16:03 +0000 > From: Lori Renee Fye > Subject: Re: Shawn Colvin live stream tonight (Jan 25), 8 pm PST (free!) > > Wow ... I'd been wondering what happened to this post. It was a nice show. > Hope some of you were able to catch it. > > Lori > Wales > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:02:55 -0800 (PST) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Lyrics > > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about > anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten > with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. > >________________________________ > > From: Catherine McKay > > >To: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" > ; Dave Blackburn > >Cc: > JMDL > >Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:48:58 AM > >Subject: > Re: Lyrics > > > > > >I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a > Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen > to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time > that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly > as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with > Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in > WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We > had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the > Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still > have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping > Force. > > > >I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with > another and > then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the > enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can > remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once > represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any > moment, it can turn against its former allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>________________________________ > >> From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" > > >>To: Dave Blackburn > >>Cc: JMDL > >>Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM > >>Subject: Lyrics > >> > >>>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your > sticks and cry and I > >>fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my > friend." To me that > >>makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its > allies into going along > >>with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively > that it is "fall"?> > >> > >>No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I > remember right, we were > >>hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics > and poems but it did not > >>update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >> > >>While > this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >> > >>I > like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead > >>Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She > calls Johnny "my good friend" > >>after all. > >> > >>Jim L > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #165 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #167 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------