From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #1597 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 3 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1597 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1476 [Matthew Tong ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:22:27 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Katy Perry and Joni Mitchell I don't see anything wrong with loving Katy Perry ... my niece Piper idolizes her. I make no assumptions that the type of music she makes is not uplifting and enjoyable to millions of people, whatever age they are. It is true too that her genre of music has been very open to many young women who are doing great and making a lot of money. When she says (me paraphrasing) "I want to be like a Joni Mitchell" ... is she saying that she would like to be respected like Joni as an artist and great songwriter who followed her art no matter where it took her ... or is she saying that she wants to take her art wherever it takes her even if that means being ostracized ... Joni's courage was based on a surrender to the gift and where it took her was a risk she was willing to take. I guess time will tell, but I don't fault people for being skeptical ... throwing around Joni's name pretty much puts you in the bull's eye ... are you that gifted? Put your money where your mouth is, I say. I hope Katy Perry succeeds!!!! Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 02:47:42 -0700 From: Matthew Tong Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1476 Rob, People here don't like Hole? That's too bad. I just wanted to tell you that I love Celebrity Skin too. I'll go as far as to say that I like it even more than Live Through This (which is also good). Anyways, I like that there are lots of people on this list who are open-minded enough to defend Katy Perry. While she's yet to succeed at putting out a "great" album after three chances so far, she's managed to make quite a few incredible songs. I usually keep track of my favourite singles of each year and every year she puts out an album, a lot of her singles are usually up there for me. So while she's definitely no Joni, I give her props because I can definitely appreciate stuff like "I Kissed a Girl", "Teenage Dream", "Roar", etc. because they are extremely catchy and fun. Sure, everyone is free to say whatever they want about anybody, If people aren't into something, I have no problem with them saying that they're not a fan of a particular artist's music. But what I find to be of no value are comments that are beyond negative and just seem kind of hateful. I'm not deeply offended by Bob's comment, nor do I find it extremely heinous, but it was directed towards someone that I do like, so it's only natural for me to want to come to the defense. It just seemed a little juvenile, the same way my immature friends (who are in their late teens/early 20s) would talk about people. What I look for in the JMDL is what I try to look for in all other forums. People acknowledging, appreciating, recognising, and respecting music from Joni (or anyone else) that they think is worth talking about. Why waste time in saying something overly negative about an artist? It's much more interesting when someone tells me what they DO like. Tell me about something great. Recommend me something. Spread the word about music that you think is worth hearing. Matt On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:57 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number > 1476 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > This Katy Perry/Joni thing [Rob Procyk < > evian@sasktel.net>] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 23:48:19 -0600 > From: Rob Procyk > Subject: This Katy Perry/Joni thing > > I gotta say I am a big fan of Katy Perry - I have pre-teen daughters and > have spent more than a little time listening to "their" music, so I too > have Miley and Katy and everyone else on my iPods. Anyway, I really like > Katy. That being said, I don't think Bob's comment was offensive at all - > it was meant as a joke and I don't think it is misogynistic that he > basically scoffed that Katy would grow into a Joni Mitchell. Different > artists, different talents, and come on - its apples and oranges. About > musical snobbery - I've been on this list for 15 years, and I've always had > different tastes than most on here. When I die, I will go to Heaven where > it's always the early 80s, and new romantics and goths and all the other > eyeliner wearing angels will be dancing to The Cure and New Order and Flock > of Seagulls, and then we will all shimmy over to another cloud where 80s > Industrial angels will be making righteous noise, and then we will wind our > nights down with funk and top 40. With! > Stevie Nicks on continual twirl. > Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I don't give a shit what ANYONE > thinks of what I like. Hell, I don't care for Dylan, don't get Nyro, nor do > I claim to understand the brilliance of many other list favorites. People > like what they like, and that's fine with me. If people here are snobby > about top 40 artists? Whatever. I think Stevie Nicks is a genius - 98% on > the list don't, but it doesn't bother me - to each his/her own. I remember > way back when, defending Hole's Celebrity Skin album, and getting > frustrated because the list didn't like even the mention of Courtney Love. > But does it matter? This is the Joni list, so this isn't your typical list > - its special, just like Joni is special. And while I still think Celebrity > Skin is amazing, it doesn't matter to me that nobody else does. And when > Katy does make this silly Joni reference, I chuckled too, even though I > like her and own all her albums. > Long story short: we all come from such different sets of circumstance - > which lead to different musical journeys. So, those who are spinning Nyro > and Television and Ani and whatever else speaks to, rock on. I'll be here > in the basement keeping it real with the synth crowd and Prince and Stevie. > But regardless of what we like and don't like, we have Joni in common. > Isn't that cool? The last 4 albums played on my iPod are by Arcade Fire, No > Doubt, and 2 albums by Skinny Puppy. What are yours? > > Just my rambly 2 cents on a cold Saskatchewan night, > > Rob > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2013-10-29, at 10:25 PM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) > wrote: > > > > > JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number > 1468 > > > > > > > > ========== > > > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > > -------- > > Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career [Gerald P Kent > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:24:29 -0400 > > From: Gerald P Kent > > Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career > > > > Vince, thank you for your honesty in addressing what I consider the > JMDLer's (which I am one of) collective (sorry to many for the > generalizing) disrespectful, condescending and somewhat uninformed opinions > they/we develop relevant to any of the new persons in popular music. It > makes me think of Sonny and Sher and the pop music they developed. Didn't > the same promoter (aka David Geffen) develop them along with Laura Nyro > (who wrote a number of tunes popularized by the 5th dimension, God forgive > their "popness") and others? Thank you for being one of the few "listers" > with the courage to challenge the others, the Joni I know would love it!!! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Oct 29, 2013, at 11:01 PM, Vince Lavieri wrote: > >> > >> What follows below is the wording of NPR. I am not a Katy Perry fan > but I > >> found the interview informative in that my perceptions were altered as > to her > >> depth. Not that she has to answer to me. The fact that Scott Simon > did a > >> piece on her says something profound about her. And I wish the > Huffington > >> Post article had had more content on Perry's Joni comment. > >> > >> What I know is this, that as a whole with some obvious exceptions the > JMDL > >> tends to trash on all younger female pop singers. An Erica Badu will > get some > >> respect but mention Taylor Swift and the knives come out. A blues-y > jazzy Amy > >> Winehouse gets love but a woman who sings in the pop category gets put > down > >> and castigated. And if a young female pop singer speaks of her respect > for > >> Joni, the hate fest erupts. As it did when Taylor Swift was connected > to > >> Joni, spoke well of her. The condescending comments were so numerous. > >> > >> Young male pop singers also get dissed but the venom is stronger on the > >> females. > >> > >> I have said before and I will repeat, that too many (and one is too > many) have > >> forgotten two things: 1. hope I did before I get old and 2. Mothers, > fathers > >> through out the land, don't criticize what you don't understand. > >> > >> When I think of how my generation was in the late 60s and early 70s, > with > >> hair, clothes or lack thereof, sexual liberation, drugs, and all kinds > of > >> posing and self aggrandizement, a Katy Perry, Lorde, Miley Cyrus, Gaga, > >> Kei$ha, are what they are: us reflected back at ourselves. They are us, > >> current generation to our faded generation that mocks the way our > parents > >> mocked our music. The quip (which I suspect was said in humor, not to > hurt) > >> about blue hair would never be made about Cindi Lauper but then she is > in her > >> 40s or 50s. Katy Perry's hair has always been black to my knowledge > but maybe > >> I missed a color change. Prism is a powerful album, Roar to me is over > done > >> but so is all Led Zepplin. Not like she invented the arena sound. > Teenage > >> Dream was one of the great albums of this decade. One can respect what > we do > >> not like, understand what is not our genre, and realize that sometimes > the > >> snark comes on so strong it invites the charge of misogyny and reflects > poorly > >> on the elders who are pissed off by the music of the young, which of > course > >> the young should be doing, and that female pop singers do not diminish > Joni by > >> the fact of their talent and success. > >> > >> Vince who wishes people listened to what Miley sang when she twerked > Robin and > >> remembered that group sex in public was a fun fashion for people now in > their > >> 50s and 60s who are shocked, shocked that someone would act out why > don't we > >> do it in the road. And is in agreement with those who have been > troubled by > >> the Katy Perry comments today. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I found the following story on the NPR iPhone App: > >> > >> Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career > >> by NPR Staff > >> > >> NPR - October 26, 2013 > >> > >> Katy Perry is among the world's biggest pop artists, but her fans know > her > >> current career is actually a second take. She first tried her hand in > the > >> music world as a teenager, making Christian music as Katy Hudson. She > released > >> an album in 2001, which failed to break through.... > >> > >> > http://www.npr.org/2013/10/26/240760441/katy-perry-returns-with-a-roar?sc=17& > >> f=7 > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1468 > > ****************************** > > > > ------- > > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > > ------- > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1476 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1597 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. 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