From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #1493 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, October 31 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1493 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- FW: Joni's Birthday Card Survey ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Njc, Anne's emails [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career [Clint Norwood Subject: FW: Joni's Birthday Card Survey Hi everyone: Just two days left for the Joni Birthday Card survey. I will work over the weekend to get the card ready. If you want to be included in the card, please fill out the survey before Friday, Nov 1 at midnight!! :-) https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6J9L55N Hi Joni lovers, Here is a quick 7 question survey that asks for your input into Joni's birthday greeting that we hope to get in the mail to her by next week. I will leave this survey open till Friday, Nov 1 at midnight. One of the questions asks for your greeting to Joni and although its open-ended, please don't write a novel or else we will need to edit. The theme of this birthday card is Tributes and Jonifests, so please make sure you add info about any tribute or fest you participated in or heard about. Thanks for helping us with this endeavor! If you have any questions about the survey, email me directly at sem8@cornell.edu. Here is the link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6J9L55N Susan McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 12:02:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Njc, Anne's emails Ah, it's because I sent them from work instead of my home email. I'll see if I can re-send (although they're probably not even really relevant by now. :-) lots of love,Anneon Oct 30, 2013, Catherine McKay wrote: Mark, I didn't see her email either, only the response to it. ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark > To: Victor ; Arkay Adkisson > Cc: Anne Sandstrom ; Jim L'Hommedieu ; joni@smoe.org > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 9:10:33 PM > Subject: Re: Njc, Anne's emails > > Anne Sandstrom's emails to the list are not showing up in my inbox. I would > > like to know why. If anyone has the time to take a break from the present > discussion, I would like to know as I highly value Anne's input. > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 13:40:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career Hi Vince, I liked your response but I wanted to add another perspective (not say you are wrong) by pointing out a few things in your post that didn't make sense to me. You said you were not a fan of Katy Perry, yet you know the names of her albums and even go on to say that, "Teenage Dream was one of the great albums of this decade" which wouldn't necessarily be something I'd expect someone who is not a fan to say regardless of what I think subjectively.. You stated that you see the current crop of young pop stars to be reflections of ourselves and the way we live in the same way that Joni and some of the hippie music of the 60's were reflections of their time (and annoyed the parents of that day.) I disagree due to the fact that the music business has changed a lot. In the 60's there were definitely album execs who wanted "marketable" albums but it wasn't the same insanely overblown, mind-raping commercial culture that we know today. Joni and her contemporaries were challenging the racist, phony, puritanical world that they felt needed change and their art reflected that. Today's youth are far more likely to want to be whatever they think is cool, marketable and most importantly, like other things that have made cash and attention. The late sixties music was not acceptable to mainstream (at first) in the way that Katy Perry is cool to the mainstream. Katy Perry and others like her ("hit me baby one more time") combine sexy with pedophilia as well. Katy's naked butt is behind a girl made up to look like she's 12 but sexy. I don't think Joni Mitchell's naked butt reminded me of a child. This is an ironic aspect to the idea that you are a misogynist if you disregard Katy Perry. I find it funny that Beyonce and Katy Perry talk about empowering young girls when they dance (seen Beyonce (sexx doll) way more) in a way that I think true misogynists would want to see. Although this discussion has gotten testy at times, I really love it. I think our culture is messed up because we never discuss it so as a result we let marketers tell us what we should want. This thread is a general step in the right direction no matter what you like :) - -Clint On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:17 AM, Sally wrote: I'm female...I'm not feeling marginalized. In saying what he said, Bob was speaking as a huge fan of a different woman. minor feeling the angst. Bob...want me to "slap you with the splintered ruler"? ;) > On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:04 AM, "Arkay Adkisson" wrote: > > You are infinitely more patient and well-spoke than I.B > > > > I get angry not because I may or may not support Katy Perry's music, but > because referring to her in such a derogatory and dismissive way, does in > fact, continue the societal-wide marginalization of women. B > > > > > Perhaps this result is indeed SO contrary to the true intention, that this > becomes a moment of learning, thus un-learning, and a little growth > happens.B > > > > Perhaps.B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b > Sent from Mailbox for iPhone > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Vince Lavieri > > wrote: > What follows below is the wording of NPR. I am not a Katy Perry fan but I > > found the interview informative in that my perceptions were altered as to her > > depth. Not that she has to answer to me. The fact that Scott Simon did a > > piece on her says something profound about her. And I wish the Huffington > > Post article had had more content on Perry's Joni comment. > > > What I know is this, that as a whole with some obvious exceptions the JMDL > > tends to trash on all younger female pop singers. An Erica Badu will get > some > > respect but mention Taylor Swift and the knives come out. A blues-y jazzy > Amy > > Winehouse gets love but a woman who sings in the pop category gets put down > > and castigated. And if a young female pop singer speaks of her respect for > > Joni, the hate fest erupts. As it did when Taylor Swift was connected to > > Joni, spoke well of her. The condescending comments were so numerous. > > > Young male pop singers also get dissed but the venom is stronger on the > > females. > > > I have said before and I will repeat, that too many (and one is too many) > have > > forgotten two things: 1. hope I did before I get old and 2. Mothers, fathers > > through out the land, don't criticize what you don't understand. > > > When I think of how my generation was in the late 60s and early 70s, with > > hair, clothes or lack thereof, sexual liberation, drugs, and all kinds of > > posing and self aggrandizement, a Katy Perry, Lorde, Miley Cyrus, Gaga, > > Kei$ha, are what they are: us reflected back at ourselves. They are us, > > current generation to our faded generation that mocks the way our parents > > mocked our music. The quip (which I suspect was said in humor, not to hurt) > > about blue hair would never be made about Cindi Lauper but then she is in her > > 40s or 50s. Katy Perry's hair has always been black to my knowledge but > maybe > > I missed a color change. Prism is a powerful album, Roar to me is over done > > but so is all Led Zepplin. Not like she invented the arena sound. Teenage > > Dream was one of the great albums of this decade. One can respect what we do > > not like, understand what is not our genre, and realize that sometimes the > > snark comes on so strong it invites the charge of misogyny and reflects > poorly > > on the elders who are pissed off by the music of the young, which of course > > the young should be doing, and that female pop singers do not diminish Joni > by > > the fact of their talent and success. > > > Vince who wishes people listened to what Miley sang when she twerked Robin > and > > remembered that group sex in public was a fun fashion for people now in their > > 50s and 60s who are shocked, shocked that someone would act out why don't we > > do it in the road. And is in agreement with those who have been troubled by > > the Katy Perry comments today. > > > > > > > I found the following story on the NPR iPhone App: > > > Katy Perry On The 180 That Saved Her Career > > by NPR Staff > > > NPR - October 26, 2013 > > > Katy Perry is among the world's biggest pop artists, but her fans know her > > current career is actually a second take. She first tried her hand in the > > music world as a teenager, making Christian music as Katy Hudson. She > released > > an album in 2001, which failed to break through.... > > > http://www.npr.org/2013/10/26/240760441/katy-perry-returns-with-a-roar?sc=17& > > f=7 > > > > > Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1493 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------