From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #1276 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, September 7 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1276 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1265 [Laurie Antonioli ] RE: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni ["Susan E. McNam] Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni [Bob.Muller@Fluo] RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #1263--Fiddle & the Drum [Barbara Sullivan Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1265 Hi Everyone, As a jazz singer, it's common place, and expected to change the keys of "standards" to suit the singers' voice. The fact is, most Great American Songbook tunes where written by men and are often in "male" keys. As such, we change the keys to suit our particular range, expect to and don't feel the least bit guilty about it! Joni is our maker of great songs that fall into the category of the new "standards." As such, changing keys, something I do and even Joni has done in later years, does not take away from the composition in any way. You can do all her material in a key that is comfortable. Those early keys, for me, are remarkable - she was singing so high that it boggles the mind and few, very few, singers can perform in that range and actually sound "good." Even though I worship at the feet of our great lady, some of those high keys to me these days sound "too high" for my personal taste. The tunings can be brought down one or two steps. It's all relative and it's all legit in the scheme of things. The "cheater" way to transpose is easy: You want to go down 3 or 4 steps do this - set up with a transposition cheat sheet as follows, find your first note, find the note/key you want to go to and then make a half-step helper: Ab = F A = Gb Bb = G B = Ab C = A Db = Bb D = B Eb = C E = Db F = D Gb = Eb G = E Ab = F Just go up or down the scale in half steps, make your "chart" and then change the keys. Does this make sense? This little half step chart is something I show to students when transposing charts to double check their work. Some people can do it in their head by thinking "intervals" but this is a great way to make sure you are on track. If you are a string player and there's a piano near by, if you can find middle C, you can do this. Laurie On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Friday, September 6 2013 Volume 2013 : Number > 1265 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni [jamiezubairi > Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni [Anita G > Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1264 [LC Stanley < > sillyseabird7@yahoo.com>] > Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni [Betsy Blue > Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni [Anita G > Earth, Wind, and Fire, njc [ > jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:44:45 +0100 > From: jamiezubairi > Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni > > AnitaB > How do you think it feels being a baritone and wanting to sing Joni? I > love her BSN 2000 for that reason. She now sings her songs in my register! > ;)B > > I do remember you singing at the French Jonifest and remember thinking > ohmygod she's doing it!B > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > - -------- Original message -------- > From: Anita G > Date: 05/09/2013 09:07 (GMT+00:00) > To: Ange T > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni > > Hi Ange > I empathise entirely with you! When I used to play pubs and clubs back > in the late 70s and 80s, the only Joni I would dare play was BYT and > BSN, which I would play in an open E tuning and could offer a > reasonable attempt at the standards that people would know and > generally enjoy. I never had the ability to understand the complexity > of any other Joni tunings (apart from the dulcimer ones which I picked > out by ear from a video of Joni playing I got somewhere). > > My ambition wasB always to play The Dawntreader - so when the > marvellous Joni.com came along and amazingly skilful people had worked > out the tuning at last, I could have a go at the Dawntreader. And yes, > that Joni voice......sweeping down 'The roll of the harbour wake...' > then whizzing up to 'he stakes all his silver....' > > How disappointing for me after 30 years of longing to play and sing > that song to eventually do it and hear my voice sound somewhere > between a low aircraft hum and a scalded cat. Truly horrible. I played > it at the France Joni Fest some years ago and it was an error of > judgement I sincerely regret and would like to apologise sincerely to > anyone there who saw the rendition. > > I can play it much better than I can sing it, especially with a bit > of a chorus and reverb whacked on my guitar. But then, not many can > really do Joni's music justice, though many are moved enough to try! > Love to the east coast of Oz and you > Anita > > On 04/09/2013, Ange T wrote: > > I sat in my seaside apartment on the east coast of Australia last night > > with a pile of printed Joni guitar tabs and detuning sheets. I printed > them > > over ten years ago, when I was living in Bangkok. Back then I was working > > as a journalist-by-day and had scored myself a second job as a folk > singer > > by-night, in a little hole in the wall bar. It was my first paid gig ever > > and I was 22 years old. I got the gig by accident and I needed to figure > > out how to fill 2 hours of live music....so, when my newsroom colleagues > > weren't watching, I printed Joni...not just one song, or two, but a whole > > encyclopedia of Ms Mitchell's mind-blowing music. > > > > I've lived in many places around the world since then...and I've carried > > that pile of song sheets with me. Every now and then I will feel inspired > > to pick up my guitar and reminisce about my time as a folk singer in > > Thailand - and that little wooden bar, full of hippy-song-loving Thais, > > where I sang Joni tunes. That's what happened last night. I fell in love > > with Joni's tabs and tunings all over again...but also experienced that > > feeling of utter frustration as a vocalist trying to sing her songs. > > > > I mean - seriously - the woman's voice = NOT OF THIS WORLD. For example, > > Conversation, I tried to play it with the cappo all over the fret board > > last night....each time I'd find a part of the song that sat perfectly > for > > my voice...but all that resulted was another part of the song that was > > impossible to sing. > > > > I've read many articles that talk about the sweet high notes of Joni's > > younger voice...but for me it's the low notes that she sings with such > > warmth and ease that truly hurt my brain/vocal box. How can she sing > > 'apples and cheeses' and then 'songs to play' in the same breath? What a > > freak! > > > > Okay, here ends the rant of a vocally frustrated Joni fan...think I'll go > > back to singing Bob Dylan covers...ha! > > > > Ange in Oz > > angetakats.com.au > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 09:07:10 +0100 > From: Anita G > Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni > > Hi Ange > I empathise entirely with you! When I used to play pubs and clubs back > in the late 70s and 80s, the only Joni I would dare play was BYT and > BSN, which I would play in an open E tuning and could offer a > reasonable attempt at the standards that people would know and > generally enjoy. I never had the ability to understand the complexity > of any other Joni tunings (apart from the dulcimer ones which I picked > out by ear from a video of Joni playing I got somewhere). > > My ambition was always to play The Dawntreader - so when the > marvellous Joni.com came along and amazingly skilful people had worked > out the tuning at last, I could have a go at the Dawntreader. And yes, > that Joni voice......sweeping down 'The roll of the harbour wake...' > then whizzing up to 'he stakes all his silver....' > > How disappointing for me after 30 years of longing to play and sing > that song to eventually do it and hear my voice sound somewhere > between a low aircraft hum and a scalded cat. Truly horrible. I played > it at the France Joni Fest some years ago and it was an error of > judgement I sincerely regret and would like to apologise sincerely to > anyone there who saw the rendition. > > I can play it much better than I can sing it, especially with a bit > of a chorus and reverb whacked on my guitar. But then, not many can > really do Joni's music justice, though many are moved enough to try! > Love to the east coast of Oz and you > Anita > > On 04/09/2013, Ange T wrote: > > I sat in my seaside apartment on the east coast of Australia last night > > with a pile of printed Joni guitar tabs and detuning sheets. I printed > them > > over ten years ago, when I was living in Bangkok. Back then I was working > > as a journalist-by-day and had scored myself a second job as a folk > singer > > by-night, in a little hole in the wall bar. It was my first paid gig ever > > and I was 22 years old. I got the gig by accident and I needed to figure > > out how to fill 2 hours of live music....so, when my newsroom colleagues > > weren't watching, I printed Joni...not just one song, or two, but a whole > > encyclopedia of Ms Mitchell's mind-blowing music. > > > > I've lived in many places around the world since then...and I've carried > > that pile of song sheets with me. Every now and then I will feel inspired > > to pick up my guitar and reminisce about my time as a folk singer in > > Thailand - and that little wooden bar, full of hippy-song-loving Thais, > > where I sang Joni tunes. That's what happened last night. I fell in love > > with Joni's tabs and tunings all over again...but also experienced that > > feeling of utter frustration as a vocalist trying to sing her songs. > > > > I mean - seriously - the woman's voice = NOT OF THIS WORLD. For example, > > Conversation, I tried to play it with the cappo all over the fret board > > last night....each time I'd find a part of the song that sat perfectly > for > > my voice...but all that resulted was another part of the song that was > > impossible to sing. > > > > I've read many articles that talk about the sweet high notes of Joni's > > younger voice...but for me it's the low notes that she sings with such > > warmth and ease that truly hurt my brain/vocal box. How can she sing > > 'apples and cheeses' and then 'songs to play' in the same breath? What a > > freak! > > > > Okay, here ends the rant of a vocally frustrated Joni fan...think I'll go > > back to singing Bob Dylan covers...ha! > > > > Ange in Oz > > angetakats.com.au > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 05:23:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: LC Stanley > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1264 > > They outta send up flying speakers in the skies that bomb them with Joni > singing, > > "study war no more... lay down your arms" > > over and over again > really loud. > > > > ________________________________ > > > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 > 11:51:40 -0600 > From: Lori Renee Fye > Subject: Re: JMDL > Digest V2013 #1263--Fiddle & the Drum njc > > I didn't even think to post this > here. > > http://rawwscoop.com/2013/09/03/making-your-voice-heard-on-us-military-interv > ention-in-syrias-civil-war/ > > Peace ... really ... PEACE. No more war. > > Lori > - ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 18:42:21 +0100 > From: > Anita > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 > #1263--Fiddle & the Drum njc > > I find it incredibly hard to witness the > suffering of the Syrian people. The film shown by the BBC after the gas > attacks were simply harrowing. I think it was an old British prime minister > (Eden I think) who said we need "Jaw, jaw not war,war." If only people > would > talk. > > I simply know if I lived in Syria I would want help to stop the > fighting and killing. The problem for us as we stand by helplessly > watching is > what intervention would really help. Personally, I don't think bombing > will. > Anita > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 05:35:50 -0700 > From: Betsy Blue > Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni > > Ange wrote: > > I've read many articles that talk about the sweet high notes of Joni's > > younger voice...but for me it's the low notes that she sings with such > > warmth and ease that truly hurt my brain/vocal box. > > You are so right, Ange. Can you imagine what Joni could have done as a > singer if she had been willing to submit to some training? Of course, she > probably would have ended up less creative. But she traded that sweet voice > for incredible deft of phrasing over the years and broke even. > > As a teenager, I loved singing along with Joni. It must have been a > combination of innate vocal flexibility, good pitch, and endless > repetition. Now, at 30, my range doesn't allow me the top notes of her > youth. But I still can't hit the bottom notes she found in her fifties and > beyond. The blessing in disguise is that I can transpose like a ninja on > piano. > > As I saw in a recent Orange County Register blog about Angels baseball, > "you don't know what you got 'til it's gone." > > Betsy > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 09:53:30 +0100 > From: Anita G > Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni > > Jamie, > My hat goes off to every man who attempts the Joni register and I can > see how the later arrangements of Joni songs have helped the baritones > - - like your good self. I also know there are some guys who do Joni in > her soprano as well as, if not better, than anyone! I am trying to > think of the name of that amazing man in the USA who did that > fantastic show that a lot of people really loved. Sadly, the name > escapes me now. > > As for French Jonifest, you thinking 'Oh My God, she's doing it!' You > seem to have left off the 'Wish she'd stop' :~)) I know that's what I > felt like after verse one! > Anita x > > > On 05/09/2013, jamiezubairi wrote: > > Anita > > How do you think it feels being a baritone and wanting to sing Joni? I > love > > her BSN 2000 for that reason. She now sings her songs in my register! ;) > > > > I do remember you singing at the French Jonifest and remember thinking > > ohmygod she's doing it! > > > > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Anita G > > Date: 05/09/2013 09:07 (GMT+00:00) > > To: Ange T > > Cc: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni > > > > Hi Ange > > I empathise entirely with you! When I used to play pubs and clubs back > > in the late 70s and 80s, the only Joni I would dare play was BYT and > > BSN, which I would play in an open E tuning and could offer a > > reasonable attempt at the standards that people would know and > > generally enjoy. I never had the ability to understand the complexity > > of any other Joni tunings (apart from the dulcimer ones which I picked > > out by ear from a video of Joni playing I got somewhere). > > > > My ambition was always to play The Dawntreader - so when the > > marvellous Joni.com came along and amazingly skilful people had worked > > out the tuning at last, I could have a go at the Dawntreader. And yes, > > that Joni voice......sweeping down 'The roll of the harbour wake...' > > then whizzing up to 'he stakes all his silver....' > > > > How disappointing for me after 30 years of longing to play and sing > > that song to eventually do it and hear my voice sound somewhere > > between a low aircraft hum and a scalded cat. Truly horrible. I played > > it at the France Joni Fest some years ago and it was an error of > > judgement I sincerely regret and would like to apologise sincerely to > > anyone there who saw the rendition. > > > > I can play it much better than I can sing it, especially with a bit > > of a chorus and reverb whacked on my guitar. But then, not many can > > really do Joni's music justice, though many are moved enough to try! > > Love to the east coast of Oz and you > > Anita > > > > On 04/09/2013, Ange T wrote: > >> I sat in my seaside apartment on the east coast of Australia last night > >> with a pile of printed Joni guitar tabs and detuning sheets. I printed > >> them > >> over ten years ago, when I was living in Bangkok. Back then I was > working > >> as a journalist-by-day and had scored myself a second job as a folk > singer > >> by-night, in a little hole in the wall bar. It was my first paid gig > ever > >> and I was 22 years old. I got the gig by accident and I needed to figure > >> out how to fill 2 hours of live music....so, when my newsroom colleagues > >> weren't watching, I printed Joni...not just one song, or two, but a > whole > >> encyclopedia of Ms Mitchell's mind-blowing music. > >> > >> I've lived in many places around the world since then...and I've carried > >> that pile of song sheets with me. Every now and then I will feel > inspired > >> to pick up my guitar and reminisce about my time as a folk singer in > >> Thailand - and that little wooden bar, full of hippy-song-loving Thais, > >> where I sang Joni tunes. That's what happened last night. I fell in love > >> with Joni's tabs and tunings all over again...but also experienced that > >> feeling of utter frustration as a vocalist trying to sing her songs. > >> > >> I mean - seriously - the woman's voice = NOT OF THIS WORLD. For example, > >> Conversation, I tried to play it with the cappo all over the fret board > >> last night....each time I'd find a part of the song that sat perfectly > for > >> my voice...but all that resulted was another part of the song that was > >> impossible to sing. > >> > >> I've read many articles that talk about the sweet high notes of Joni's > >> younger voice...but for me it's the low notes that she sings with such > >> warmth and ease that truly hurt my brain/vocal box. How can she sing > >> 'apples and cheeses' and then 'songs to play' in the same breath? What a > >> freak! > >> > >> Okay, here ends the rant of a vocally frustrated Joni fan...think I'll > go > >> back to singing Bob Dylan covers...ha! > >> > >> Ange in Oz > >> angetakats.com.au > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 23:52:02 -0400 > From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com > Subject: Earth, Wind, and Fire, njc > > Tonight on Tavis Smiley's tv show, he interviewed Earth, Wind, and Fire. > They got back together in the past 2 years to make a new disc, which is > out now. > > Jim L. > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1265 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 14:01:39 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni Don't stop trying Ange!! One of the things I find fascinating about Joni's career is that she sang lower in her earlier days on the Cafi circuit. Chelsea Morning and Conversation were sung in a much lower register. I understand that her range can be frustrating though. You can always try her later songs, too. I love singing songs from Night Ride Home and Turbulent Indigo (we have tabs for those!). Here's a youtube version of her earlier rendition of Conversation with the extra verse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QjQY8U3eN4 Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Ange T Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 6:42 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni I sat in my seaside apartment on the east coast of Australia last night with a pile of printed Joni guitar tabs and detuning sheets. I printed them over ten years ago, when I was living in Bangkok. Back then I was working as a journalist-by-day and had scored myself a second job as a folk singer by-night, in a little hole in the wall bar. It was my first paid gig ever and I was 22 years old. I got the gig by accident and I needed to figure out how to fill 2 hours of live music....so, when my newsroom colleagues weren't watching, I printed Joni...not just one song, or two, but a whole encyclopedia of Ms Mitchell's mind-blowing music. I've lived in many places around the world since then...and I've carried that pile of song sheets with me. Every now and then I will feel inspired to pick up my guitar and reminisce about my time as a folk singer in Thailand - and that little wooden bar, full of hippy-song-loving Thais, where I sang Joni tunes. That's what happened last night. I fell in love with Joni's tabs and tunings all over again...but also experienced that feeling of utter frustration as a vocalist trying to sing her songs. I mean - seriously - the woman's voice = NOT OF THIS WORLD. For example, Conversation, I tried to play it with the cappo all over the fret board last night....each time I'd find a part of the song that sat perfectly for my voice...but all that resulted was another part of the song that was impossible to sing. I've read many articles that talk about the sweet high notes of Joni's younger voice...but for me it's the low notes that she sings with such warmth and ease that truly hurt my brain/vocal box. How can she sing 'apples and cheeses' and then 'songs to play' in the same breath? What a freak! Okay, here ends the rant of a vocally frustrated Joni fan...think I'll go back to singing Bob Dylan covers...ha! Ange in Oz angetakats.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 07:49:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: The inspiration and frustration of the voice of Joni Hi Ange, and thanks for the post. I could almost see the joint you described. As for following in Joni's footsteps vocally, you're spot on. Conversation is certainly one of those, as are California and I Had A King. I'll never forget the first time I heard her hit that low note on "brown" and couldn't believe it was Joni's voice. Almost as tricky as her range was back in the day, her ability to fit crazy-long phrases in a few short musical bursts is equally challenging. I remember singing "Talk To Me" at a Full Moon Jonifest with Marian playing guitar, bless her heart she was so patient, we had to keep doing the Willy the Shake part because I just couldn't make it work. I feel like I finally got it, or at least came close, but it certainly gives you respect for the vocal skills the lady had. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. 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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 10:31:59 -0400 From: Barbara Sullivan Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2013 #1263--Fiddle & the Drum I agree, well said Babs!! > From: BarbaRent7@aol.com > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 10:00:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2013 #1263--Fiddle & the Drum > To: joni@smoe.org > > With all this chatter about Syria, I can't help but recall Joni singing her > excellent tune, The Fiddle & the Drum on the Dick Cavette Show during > Vietnam's War. America never seemed bothered by massive killings in Uganda, > China and the USSR when up to 50 million were murdered by their regimes so no > matter what trumped up reason we should NOT go into any conflict with > Syria. Let the U.N. enforce the violations of the Geneva convention or let the > uber-wealthy Saudi Arabians, but NOT the USA (again). The V.A. doesn't care > about injured veterans now, so what will happen when WW3 starts up? It is > beneath Obama's intelligence to get suckered into this quagmire. With the > Bushes it was to be expected! It will only push ahead the bad idea for > Keystone XL and other environmental disasters while removing our rights one after > another under the 'state security' veil/ lie. Joni is SO lucky to be back > in Canada the only normal country in this western hemisphere (besides > Equador and Venezuela). Does Kerry not recall he started the V.V.A.W.? > > La Paz Contigo, my comrades > ex-hippie Babs ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1276 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------