From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #124 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, January 27 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 124 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Lyrics [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Lyrics [David Lahm ] RE: Lyrics ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lyrics [Dave Blackburn ] the fiddle and the drum lyrics [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: Lyrics ["David J. Phillips" ] Lyrics [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Re: Lyrics [Catherine McKay ] Joni's yearbook [Shari Eaton ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:41:02 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Okay, that sounds pretty definitive, Richard and David. On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Richard Flynn wrote: > I think that the lyrics as printed on the gatefold are "I fall, / Oh my friend" and the repetition "we fall, / Of my friend" is definitive evidence against "follow." > > Richard Flynn > Professor of Literature > Georgia Southern University > https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn/ > > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:35 PM, David Lahm wrote: > >> Isn't there a (slight) pause in the vocal after the word (which sounds >> like) "fall?" To my ear, no way she meant "follow." To say nothing of the >> line "...you are fighting us all." >> >> LAHM >> >> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:52 PM, wrote: >> >>>> I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >>> fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >>> makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >>> with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> >>> >>> No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >>> hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >>> update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". >>> >>> While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. >>> >>> I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. >>> Instead >>> Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >>> after all. >>> >>> Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:35:34 -0500 From: David Lahm Subject: Re: Lyrics Isn't there a (slight) pause in the vocal after the word (which sounds like) "fall?" To my ear, no way she meant "follow." To say nothing of the line "...you are fighting us all." LAHM On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:52 PM, wrote: > >I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I > fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that > makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along > with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > > No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were > hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not > update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > > While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > > I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. > Instead > Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" > after all. > > Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:16:40 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Lyrics "This is a song I wrote for America as a Canadian living in this country"--Joni on the Dick Cavett show, August 18, 1969: http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=27 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:49 AM To: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; Dave Blackburn Cc: JMDL Subject: Re: Lyrics I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping Force. I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with another and then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any moment, it can turn against its former allies. >________________________________ > From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" >To: Dave Blackburn >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM >Subject: Lyrics > >>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > >No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead >Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >after all. > >Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lyrics I can kind of empathize with that. I remember going to the US on family vacations as a child and just thinking Americans were a lot like us. As an adult going there, I had a completely different feeling. You guys scare the crap out of me! >________________________________ > From: Richard Flynn >To: 'Catherine McKay' ; jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com; 'Dave Blackburn' >Cc: 'JMDL' >Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 1:16:40 PM >Subject: RE: Lyrics > >"This is a song I wrote for America as a Canadian living in this >country"--Joni on the Dick Cavett show, August 18, 1969: > >http://jonimitchell.com/library/video.cfm?id=27 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:07:14 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Lyrics Ooh, I like that theory, Catherine. I had assumed "we" was Canadians but anti-war protesters in 1969 sounds very plausible. > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:59:15 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: the fiddle and the drum lyrics love the question. I think it is: "and I fall, oh my friend." or maybe that is just what I always thought *I LOVE this song. . . peace and the star Marianne I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >> fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >> makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >> with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:54:14 -0500 From: "David J. Phillips" Subject: Re: Lyrics that's what I always thought it was about. djp On 26/01/13 12:0255, Catherine McKay wrote: > One more thing and then I'll shut up about it. > > She may also be talking about > anti-war demonstrators within the US itself, people who were literally beaten > with sticks by police and National Guard and so on. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:52:55 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Lyrics >I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" after all. Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lyrics I'm not a historian, but I don't think Joni is writing as a Canadian, but as someone on the "other" side, whatever side that might happen to be. Thinking back on my scant historical knowledge, I can't think of a time that Canada has entered into a war to side with the US. If anything, formerly as a colony and then as a member of the Commonwealth, we, along with Australia, New Zealand and others, went along with Great Britain. We were in WWI and WWII well before the USA, because we were supporting Great Britain. We had some involvement in the Korean Conflict, as did other members of the Commonwealth. We didn't get involved in Viet Nam, or Iraq. We have had, still have, people in Afghanistan and parts of Africa, as part of a UN Peacekeeping Force. I believe Joni is talking about how one country can be allies with another and then things turn and your former friend suddenly becomes the enemy. ("You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned, but we can remember the good things you are." She's lamenting what the US once represented, and that it has become a warmongering nation and that, at any moment, it can turn against its former allies. >________________________________ > From: "jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com" >To: Dave Blackburn >Cc: JMDL >Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:52:55 PM >Subject: Lyrics > >>I got to wondering whether the line "you raise your sticks and cry and I >fall, oh my friend" might in fact be "and I follow, my friend." To me that >makes more sense, as America tends to strongarm its allies into going along >with its foreign wars. Do we know authoritatively that it is "fall"?> > >No, we don't know any lyrics authoritatively. If I remember right, we were >hopefully anticipating the complete book of lyrics and poems but it did not >update "buoy winds" to "bully winds". > >While this is disappointing, it also allows you to interpret as you will. > >I like your interpretation because Canada is not attacked by the US. Instead >Canada is dragged along, into the fight. She calls Johnny "my good friend" >after all. > >Jim L ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 23:00:48 -0800 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Joni's yearbook http://www.ebay.com/itm/Recording-Artist-Joni-Mitchell-High-School-YB-Cary-Fr ee-Man-in-Paris-Help-Me-/350672185898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a5b0ea 2 Wish I had the purse for this! Sent from my Pimped-out Flying Carpet ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #124 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. 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