From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2013 #1096 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 1096 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mike Gibbs [Dave Blackburn ] Cambridge Folk Festival [Jonathan Edward Lowe ] bigotry in Saskatchewan [Kate Johnson ] Re: The hammers and the boards and the nails... [Jamie Zubairi Home ] Re: Mike Gibbs [Michael Paz ] Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan [Catherine McKay ] Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan [Anita ] Re: Mike Gibbs [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni musings [Anita ] Re: Mike Gibbs [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #299 [Stdoherty ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:30:53 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Mike Gibbs Woohoo, I just got in touch with Mike Gibbs, the orchestrator on DJRD, and asked him if he'd like to share any memories or stories of working with Joni and he wrote back and gave me his phone number. Soany suggestions of questions I might ask him? As yet all I know is he orchestrated Paprika Plains and Off Night Backstreet but nothing more. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:37:42 +0200 From: Jonathan Edward Lowe Subject: Cambridge Folk Festival I just spent 4 great days at the Cambridge (UK) Folk Festival- listening to a diverse bunch of artists, old and new- Blair Dunlop, Emily Barker, The Staves, Thea Gilmore, KT Tunstall and The Waterboys, to name but a few. However, at some friends' house on Saturday morning, we sat in their garden and put on "For The Roses". And then it just struck me- why the heck am I bothering to go to a music festival, when I can sit here, and listen to this perfection? Joni is so far ahead of any other artist... Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:17:31 -0600 From: Kate Johnson Subject: bigotry in Saskatchewan There is still terrible racism (particularly when it comes to the First Nations) in this entire province, though we white people refuse to admit it. Not only do we not WANT to see it in ourselves; it appears we CAN'T. Our good intentions surely do not match with our bigotry, which is deep-down, built in. We may think one way on the surface, but our automatic responses seem to come from social attitudes that are quite different and deeply ingrained. We think we are just being "realistic" when we describe "Indians" as lazy, or thieves, or drunks, or wife-beaters, or parents who don't take good care of their children. But we DO think these things, in spite of knowing that they can't possibly be true of every First Nations person, and knowing (alas, many don't: they will still say, quite self-righteously, that First Nations people bring these problems upon themselves and that if they would just be "more like us" their lives would be just as comfy) that the huge social problems of First Nations communities spring from government (and civilian; let's not kid ourselves) actions and attitudes generations ago that are still affecting them in the present. I don't know how things are in the city where you live, Rob, where there is a high First Nations population, but where I live, I see informal segregation. First Nations kids come to the schools in town, so you'd think "we" and "they" would mix naturally; but no. When "we" go to a concert or community event, there are NO First Nations people there. They do not work in the businesses in town either, and because they have such a reputation for wrecking houses, many landlords don't advertise vacancies publicly (because they can't legally refuse to house a First Nations person), but instead advertise only by word of mouth so it's easier for them to pick and choose their tenants. And whenever you read an RCMP (that's Canada's national police force) report in the paper, the perpetrator of the crime almost invariably has a First Nations surname. When you hear about a home break-in or a knifing or murder in Saskatoon, it's often the same. It's no wonder white people have these bigoted attitudes toward Native people, perhaps ... because people don't tend to look too deeply behind these things, to the causes of these social problems. We sure as hell don't take any responsibility for them. WE didn't do it; our PARENTS didn't do it; our GRANDPARENTS didn't steal the First Nations land; it was the GUMMINT!! But it was our grandparents, great-grandparents, etc, and by extension US, who benefited from that theft and those terrible laws that were made for the benefit of white settlers, to the detriment of the culture of the First Nations. Bigoted people rarely admit they are bigoted. We think we are better than that. And we want to be. But the prejudice IS there; we just don't see it in ourselves. This is probably why folks are so pissed off about what Joni said. It's a very big subject and could use a lot more examination, that's for sure. Re the smalldeadanimals webpage: ugh. An embarrassment. Always has been. Kate in Saskatchewan b?b 1b.b?b 1b.b?b 1b. Stubblejumpin'Gal http://goldengrainfarm.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:46:49 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Home Subject: Re: The hammers and the boards and the nails... What I found breath taking in this interview was their knee jerk reaction to "the quote unquote quote". The she had to wade through NINETEEN PARAGRAPHS before they got to the audacious statement which got people so riled, so basically, they had to do some work of actually looking through the whole interview before they got to anything they could actually REALLY hate and sink their teeth into, which, as they'd already made their mind up about the statement, they couldn't possibly read with an unbiased mind. Meanwhile, reducing their arguments to name calling and nit picking. Sigh. Journalism. At its laziest. Jamie Zubairi Actor, Painter, Voiceover, Creative Future Appearances: Sept 12-28 in "Cheese" for Fanshen Theatre On 27 Jul 2013 05:09, "David Marine" wrote: > Wow who is this guy, a Canadian Rush Limbaugh? Leaving aside the fact that > he > got pretty much everything wrong, he doesn't even attempt to address her > statements. All he's doing is proving her point: they don't "get" her. > And no > one seems to be addressing the bigotry that Joni's referencing. Years ago > she > was approached about what might be done to honor her, and she suggested > something recognizing the First Nations. They killed that idea fast. What > is > she to infer but that little has changed since the days of Cherokee Louise? > The comments sections of some of the Saskatchewan articles are telling. > I've > seen posts directed toward Joni supporters calling them "stupid Indians," > "greasy Indians," etc. > > I liked the blunt, straightforward lyrics of "Shine," and I love the blunt > declarations of the elder Joni. > > Best, > > David > > > On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:17 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 02:16:48 +0000 > > From: "Susan E. McNamara" > > Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's white liberal self-loathing" > > > > This is all so weird to me after coming off of the incredible experience > of > Luminato. She's got herself a real gloves off wrestling match now. If Ann > Coulter gets involved, please warn me before you send the video ... I may > get > sick to my stomach! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 26, 2013, at 7:56 PM, "Les Irvin" wrote: > > > >> http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2566091524001 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 22:45:53 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan njc On 30/07/2013, Catherine McKay wrote: And anyone who is an immigrant, or particularly a non-white > immigrant, is viewed as a threat by some white people, who are afraid they > will "take our jobs" or that we are doing too much to accomodate them and > that they should just "act like us." What they forget is that, in a country > like Canada, we are all immigrants. > I l get frustrated over here when you confronted with the Keep England for the English Brigade. When confronted with this, I quite often like to enquire about what a person knows about their English heritage. Are they Anglo-Saxon, Angles, Jute, Celtic, Viking, French or (like me) Flemish? Just who are the "English" and are they certain they are one? It's all bloody madness. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:39:05 -0400 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Mike Gibbs Tres cool! I hope you have a nice chat. I like to hear his thoughts on working with Jaco and what he was like creatively in the studio. Was he abusing drugs heavily by this time? Paz (in the Sky Club in ATL) On Jul 30, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: Woohoo, I just got in touch with Mike Gibbs, the orchestrator on DJRD, and asked him if he'd like to share any memories or stories of working with Joni and he wrote back and gave me his phone number. Soany suggestions of questions I might ask him? As yet all I know is he orchestrated Paprika Plains and Off Night Backstreet but nothing more. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:03:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan Let me add my voice to what Anita has said: Kate, you have expressed very well how people are and how they (we) feel. My personal experience with natives here has been that most of the ones I've seen here in Toronto fit the stereotypical mold of being drunks sitting out on the streets, sometimes being rowdy, but often sleeping on the concrete. I'm glad to have worked with a lovely young woman who is native (or half - she is half native and half French Canadian), so that I know that the stereotypes I've seen on the street are only a minority. I've also met native people through work who do not fit that stereotype but that stereotype is something that a lot of white Canadians - at least those of us who live in the city - see. For many of us, natives are people who live "way up there somewhere," so, out of sight, out of mind. For others, they figure native people should just "get over it" (the past, that is.) Getting back to the Buffy Sainte-Marie biography that I read recently, she was adopted at a very young age by a white family. At least, her adoptive father was white but her mother had some native blood. She didn't realize she was different until she got a bit older and, when her mother told her she was "Indian," she was amazed, because she thought all the "Indians" had died and were just something you read about in stories. There is also hatred towards gypsies here, although most of them are relative newcomers. As well, white people here often tend to stereotype young black men as *all* being gangster types, although those people are a small minority who make the news because they shoot someone, or are shot by someone. And anyone who is an immigrant, or particularly a non-white immigrant, is viewed as a threat by some white people, who are afraid they will "take our jobs" or that we are doing too much to accomodate them and that they should just "act like us." What they forget is that, in a country like Canada, we are all immigrants. - ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anita > To: Kate Johnson > Cc: "joni@smoe.org" > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:29:11 PM > Subject: Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan > > Kate, I think your writing is courageous because it challenges us all to look at > our own internalised racism. The issue that hits me in the face in middle > England is our current attitudes to gypsies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:29:11 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: bigotry in Saskatchewan Kate, I think your writing is courageous because it challenges us all to look at our own internalised racism. The issue that hits me in the face in middle England is our current attitudes to gypsies. A more derided or despised group of people it would be hard to find. I am a little informed about their position because my partner,Steph, led the inclusion course at a local university. She would talk about including people with disabilities, issues for gays and lesbians, issues that black kids face, being sensitive to the variety of Asian cultures etc. However, the lecture Steph would personally feel under attack and where the vitriol and hatred would erupt most was about including travellers and gypsies. They were ALL filthy, dirty people who would rob you of everything. At the end of one lecture about six years ago, she was approached by a young student teacher who asked to speak with her and told Steph that she was a gypsy. The young gypsy never told anyone else about her life for fear of being hated in all four years of her training, but she took Steph and I to great traveller fairs where we were able to share in her experience of not being served in pubs and being asked to leave a restaurant, as it was assumed we were travellers. Although as lesbians we have had a fair amount of abuse over the past thirty years, we are able to pass as middle class white straight women. I have experienced that as a great relief several times in my life. Not so easy to duck under the radar for many other "minority" groups. Anita On 30 Jul 2013, at 17:17, Kate Johnson wrote: > There is still terrible racism (particularly when it comes to the First > Nations) in this entire province, though we white people refuse to admit it. > Not only do we not WANT to see it in ourselves; it appears we CAN'T. Our good > intentions surely do not match with our bigotry, which is deep-down, built in. > We may think one way on the surface, but our automatic responses seem to come > from social attitudes that are quite different and deeply ingrained. > > We think we are just being "realistic" when we describe "Indians" as lazy, or > thieves, or drunks, or wife-beaters, or parents who don't take good care of > their children. But we DO think these things, in spite of knowing that they > can't possibly be true of every First Nations person, and knowing (alas, many > don't: they will still say, quite self-righteously, that First Nations people > bring these problems upon themselves and that if they would just be "more like > us" their lives would be just as comfy) that the huge social problems of First > Nations communities spring from government (and civilian; let's not kid > ourselves) actions and attitudes generations ago that are still affecting them > in the present. > > I don't know how things are in the city where you live, Rob, where there is a > high First Nations population, but where I live, I see informal segregation. > First Nations kids come to the schools in town, so you'd think "we" and "they" > would mix naturally; but no. When "we" go to a concert or community event, > there are NO First Nations people there. They do not work in the businesses in > town either, and because they have such a reputation for wrecking houses, many > landlords don't advertise vacancies publicly (because they can't legally > refuse to house a First Nations person), but instead advertise only by word of > mouth so it's easier for them to pick and choose their tenants. > > And whenever you read an RCMP (that's Canada's national police force) report > in the paper, the perpetrator of the crime almost invariably has a First > Nations surname. When you hear about a home break-in or a knifing or murder in > Saskatoon, it's often the same. It's no wonder white people have these bigoted > attitudes toward Native people, perhaps ... because people don't tend to look > too deeply behind these things, to the causes of these social problems. We > sure as hell don't take any responsibility for them. WE didn't do it; our > PARENTS didn't do it; our GRANDPARENTS didn't steal the First Nations land; it > was the GUMMINT!! But it was our grandparents, great-grandparents, etc, and by > extension US, who benefited from that theft and those terrible laws that were > made for the benefit of white settlers, to the detriment of the culture of the > First Nations. > > Bigoted people rarely admit they are bigoted. We think we are better than > that. And we want to be. But the prejudice IS there; we just don't see it in > ourselves. This is probably why folks are so pissed off about what Joni said. > > It's a very big subject and could use a lot more examination, that's for sure. > > Re the smalldeadanimals webpage: ugh. An embarrassment. Always has been. > > Kate in Saskatchewan > > > b?b > 1b.b?b > 1b.b?b > 1b. > Stubblejumpin'Gal > http://goldengrainfarm.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:49:44 -0400 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Mike Gibbs I meant to say. Pretty impressive list of projects over the years. I have many of those records in my collection On Jul 30, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: Woohoo, I just got in touch with Mike Gibbs, the orchestrator on DJRD, and asked him if he'd like to share any memories or stories of working with Joni and he wrote back and gave me his phone number. Soany suggestions of questions I might ask him? As yet all I know is he orchestrated Paprika Plains and Off Night Backstreet but nothing more. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:00:46 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Joni musings Good ol' Buffy. I must get hold of her book. I also recall our discussion her about Buffy's influence on Joni's tunings and style. Maybe her inflluence is even deeper. At Ruby Lake, there were a couple of First People with Joni who carried her 'herbs'. (known as death sticks in my house after my Mum died from illness that was smoking related). Experimentation on poor people is an outrage - but fairly common in many cultures for sure. Anita On 29 Jul 2013, at 23:34, Catherine McKay wrote: > I'm not sure if the notion of people not knowing how to honour was strictly aimed at Canadians, but it could easily be. I also didn't realize that Joni was so involved in First Nations issues. I knew that she has been in the past and, if she still is, I'm happy to hear that. Goodness knows, despite there being more press in recent years about native peoples' issues, there is still not enough attention paid to them. It would be nice if Joni would speak out on their behalf but, better still, it would be great to see her teaming up with someone like Buffy Sainte-Marie. I just finished reading a biography about Buffy called "It's my way" - a great read. Buffy is an activist for native rights and she puts her money where her mouth is. She started an educational project years ago called Cradleboard that provides multimedia teaching resources about native life (http://www.cradleboard.org) as well as singing about native rights and human rights generally. > > I read those articles about the nutritional experiments. Some people believe it wasn't like that but, having read about the experiments on black men in Tuskegee from the 30s to, believe it or not, the 70s, and having read the book "The immortal life of Henrietta Lacks," and knowing (thanks to Joni) about the Magdelene Laundries, I can absolutely believe that this was done. It seems that experimenting on or taking advantage of poor and disadvantaged people without their knowledge or permission, supposedly in the name of some higher authority - science or religion, was commonplace not so long ago. For all we know, some of it may still be going on. > > Joni says: > Uranium money > Is booming in the old home town now > It's putting up sleek concrete > Tearing the old landmarks down now > Paving over brave little parks > Ripping off Indian land again > How long how long > Short sighted business men > > > In "No, no, Kegagesh,"(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7EYXnLLWZ8) Buffy says: > These old men they make their dirty deals. > Go in the back room and see what they can steal. > Talk about your beautiful and spacious skies. > It's about uranium; it's about the water rights. > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Anita >> To: Catherine McKay >> Cc: JONIMITCHELL DISCUSSION LIST >> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:53:39 PM >> Subject: Re: Joni musings >> >> Cath, I did wonder if Joni's references to the notion of honour have been >> influenced by her association with First People. Wab Kinew, Director of >> Indigenous Inclusion, the University of Winnipeg - (quoted in the Huffington >> Post just this July 25th )contained this, which is about nutritional >> experiments First People were subjected to. >> >> 'Yet I know the hurt from these recent revelations is not limited to the >> Indigenous community. I know many Canadians from other walks of life who have >> been upset by the news and and are contemplating what it says about this >> country's history. For me, the more important question is "what will >> our >> response say about what Canada is today?"Some friends and I have put out a >> call to Canadians to shed some of this negativity by uniting across cultural >> and religious lines. We are calling our gatherings (to be held today at noon) >> "Honour The Apology," in reference to Prime Minister Harper's 2008 >> apology to >> Residential School survivors. The idea is that we can each honour the apology >> on an individual level by commemorating or praying for the survivors.' >> >> I wondered if Joni's friends have been talking recently and feel that this >> Apology has not been properly honoured in Canada. Maybe it's in her mind >> that >> Canadians don't know how to honour as a result. >> That's my musing! >> Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:08:35 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Mike Gibbs Wow, that's exciting and I can't think of a better person to do the interview. I guess the only question I'd think of is regarding the length of the track - unless you were Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, or the Allman Brothers, a track that took up an entire album side was pretty rare - I mean, there was Alice's Restaurant in the singer/songwriter genre, but still, pretty uncommon. I would think you could just let him ramble and take it all in. Looking forward to hearing memories of THOSE sessions. What NOT to ask: Are you one of The Bee Gees? Bob From: Dave Blackburn To: JMDL JMDL Date: 07/30/2013 10:39 AM Subject: Mike Gibbs Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Woohoo, I just got in touch with Mike Gibbs, the orchestrator on DJRD, and asked him if he'd like to share any memories or stories of working with Joni and he wrote back and gave me his phone number. Soany suggestions of questions I might ask him? As yet all I know is he orchestrated Paprika Plains and Off Night Backstreet but nothing more. Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:12:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Stdoherty Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #299 It was cool for a while to have so much activity on the digest. So much positive press, Joni laughing, great tunes and well deserved accolades for the queen. And now all this crap. Wish it would go away. - -----Original Message----- From: onlyJMDL Digest To: onlyjoni-digest Sent: Tue, Jul 30, 2013 1:14 pm Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #299 onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 30 2013 Volume 2013 : Number 299 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: Mike Gibbs [Michael Paz ] bigotry in Saskatchewan [Kate Johnson ] Re: The hammers and the boards and the nails... [Jamie Zubairi Home ] Graham Nash Autobiography [Sharon Watkins ] Mike Shipley RIP [Dave Blackburn ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:49:44 -0400 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Mike Gibbs I meant to say. Pretty impressive list of projects over the years. I have many of those records in my collection On Jul 30, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: Woohoo, I just got in touch with Mike Gibbs, the orchestrator on DJRD, and asked him if he'd like to share any memories or stories of working with Joni and he wrote back and gave me his phone number. Soany suggestions of questions I might ask him? As yet all I know is he orchestrated Paprika Plains and Off Night Backstreet but nothing more. Dave - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:17:31 -0600 From: Kate Johnson Subject: bigotry in Saskatchewan There is still terrible racism (particularly when it comes to the First Nations) in this entire province, though we white people refuse to admit it. Not only do we not WANT to see it in ourselves; it appears we CAN'T. Our good intentions surely do not match with our bigotry, which is deep-down, built in. We may think one way on the surface, but our automatic responses seem to come from social attitudes that are quite different and deeply ingrained. We think we are just being "realistic" when we describe "Indians" as lazy, or thieves, or drunks, or wife-beaters, or parents who don't take good care of their children. But we DO think these things, in spite of knowing that they can't possibly be true of every First Nations person, and knowing (alas, many don't: they will still say, quite self-righteously, that First Nations people bring these problems upon themselves and that if they would just be "more like us" their lives would be just as comfy) that the huge social problems of First Nations communities spring from government (and civilian; let's not kid ourselves) actions and attitudes generations ago that are still affecting them in the present. I don't know how things are in the city where you live, Rob, where there is a high First Nations population, but where I live, I see informal segregation. First Nations kids come to the schools in town, so you'd think "we" and "they" would mix naturally; but no. When "we" go to a concert or community event, there are NO First Nations people there. They do not work in the businesses in town either, and because they have such a reputation for wrecking houses, many landlords don't advertise vacancies publicly (because they can't legally refuse to house a First Nations person), but instead advertise only by word of mouth so it's easier for them to pick and choose their tenants. And whenever you read an RCMP (that's Canada's national police force) report in the paper, the perpetrator of the crime almost invariably has a First Nations surname. When you hear about a home break-in or a knifing or murder in Saskatoon, it's often the same. It's no wonder white people have these bigoted attitudes toward Native people, perhaps ... because people don't tend to look too deeply behind these things, to the causes of these social problems. We sure as hell don't take any responsibility for them. WE didn't do it; our PARENTS didn't do it; our GRANDPARENTS didn't steal the First Nations land; it was the GUMMINT!! But it was our grandparents, great-grandparents, etc, and by extension US, who benefited from that theft and those terrible laws that were made for the benefit of white settlers, to the detriment of the culture of the First Nations. Bigoted people rarely admit they are bigoted. We think we are better than that. And we want to be. But the prejudice IS there; we just don't see it in ourselves. This is probably why folks are so pissed off about what Joni said. It's a very big subject and could use a lot more examination, that's for sure. Re the smalldeadanimals webpage: ugh. An embarrassment. Always has been. Kate in Saskatchewan b?b 1b.b?b 1b.b?b 1b. Stubblejumpin'Gal http://goldengrainfarm.blogspot.com - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:46:49 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Home Subject: Re: The hammers and the boards and the nails... What I found breath taking in this interview was their knee jerk reaction to "the quote unquote quote". The she had to wade through NINETEEN PARAGRAPHS before they got to the audacious statement which got people so riled, so basically, they had to do some work of actually looking through the whole interview before they got to anything they could actually REALLY hate and sink their teeth into, which, as they'd already made their mind up about the statement, they couldn't possibly read with an unbiased mind. Meanwhile, reducing their arguments to name calling and nit picking. Sigh. Journalism. At its laziest. Jamie Zubairi Actor, Painter, Voiceover, Creative Future Appearances: Sept 12-28 in "Cheese" for Fanshen Theatre On 27 Jul 2013 05:09, "David Marine" wrote: > Wow who is this guy, a Canadian Rush Limbaugh? Leaving aside the fact that > he > got pretty much everything wrong, he doesn't even attempt to address her > statements. All he's doing is proving her point: they don't "get" her. > And no > one seems to be addressing the bigotry that Joni's referencing. Years ago > she > was approached about what might be done to honor her, and she suggested > something recognizing the First Nations. They killed that idea fast. What > is > she to infer but that little has changed since the days of Cherokee Louise? > The comments sections of some of the Saskatchewan articles are telling. > I've > seen posts directed toward Joni supporters calling them "stupid Indians," > "greasy Indians," etc. > > I liked the blunt, straightforward lyrics of "Shine," and I love the blunt > declarations of the elder Joni. > > Best, > > David > > > On Jul 26, 2013, at 10:17 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 02:16:48 +0000 > > From: "Susan E. McNamara" > > Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell's white liberal self-loathing" > > > > This is all so weird to me after coming off of the incredible experience > of > Luminato. She's got herself a real gloves off wrestling match now. If Ann > Coulter gets involved, please warn me before you send the video ... I may > get > sick to my stomach! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 26, 2013, at 7:56 PM, "Les Irvin" wrote: > > > >> http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2566091524001 - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:15:48 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IE5ldyBMaWJyYXJ5IGl0ZW06IEpvbmkgTWl0Y2hlbGwgc2F5c w==?= =?UTF-8?B?IFNhc2thdG9vbiBkb2VzbuKAmXQg4oCYZ2V04oCZIGl0IOKAkyBhbmQgaXQ= ?= =?UTF-8?B?IGxvb2tzIGxpa2Ugc2hl4oCZcyByaWdodA==?= Now there you go. That's more like it. From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: 07/29/2013 02:01 PM Subject: New Library item: Joni Mitchell says Saskatoon doesnbt bgetb it b and it looks like shebs right Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Title: Joni Mitchell says Saskatoon doesnbt bgetb it b and it looks like shebs right Publication: Metro Saskatoon Date: 2013.7.28 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2666 - - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:40:27 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Wild Tales by Graham Nash - Book - eBook - Audiobook - Random House Am 28.07.2013 23:47, Wie Sharon Watkins so vortrefflich formulierte: > Book release is scheduled for September. More information and Joni mention at link below: > > http://www.randomhouse.com/book/223916/wild-tales-by-graham-nash You can pre-order it from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Tales-Rock-Roll-Life/dp/0385347545/ref=nosim/cagnl ace00/ Scheduled release date is September 17. moni k. - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:53:39 +0100 From: Anita Subject: Re: Joni musings Cath, I did wonder if Joni's references to the notion of honour have been influenced by her association with First People. Wab Kinew, Director of Indigenous Inclusion, the University of Winnipeg - (quoted in the Huffington Post just this July 25th )contained this, which is about nutritional experiments First People were subjected to. 'Yet I know the hurt from these recent revelations is not limited to the Indigenous community. I know many Canadians from other walks of life who have been upset by the news and and are contemplating what it says about this country's history. For me, the more important question is "what will our response say about what Canada is today?"Some friends and I have put out a call to Canadians to shed some of this negativity by uniting across cultural and religious lines. We are calling our gatherings (to be held today at noon) "Honour The Apology," in reference to Prime Minister Harper's 2008 apology to Residential School survivors. The idea is that we can each honour the apology on an individual level by commemorating or praying for the survivors.' I wondered if Joni's friends have been talking recently and feel that this Apology has not been properly honoured in Canada. Maybe it's in her mind that Canadians don't know how to honour as a result. That's my musing! Anita On 29 Jul 2013, at 18:20, Catherine McKay wrote: > I contradict myself all the time. Or maybe I don't. ;-) > > But Joni does seem to make these statements that are completely out of context for everyone but her. I suppose a good interviewer could ask her to clarify what she means, but good luck with that. In the various pre-Luminato interviews, she went off on that "honour dying with WWII" thing that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me in the context of honouring someone by doing a tribute concert. I think there's a bit of a difference between "honour" as in, "do the right thing" and "honour" as in "build a statue or do a tribute show." Later, she apologized for that and still later, was the Saskatoon statement where she was right back with the "honour is dead" thing. I'm not sure at this point if her trying to clarify what she meant would help or just make things worse. But just thinking about the fact that only one of the articles I read about the Saskatoon Incident (there may be more that I missed) mentioned that she wanted to build some kind of museum > dedicated to First Nations people (somewhere, but I'm not sure whether that was Saskatoon or elsewhere) means that someone missed the mark somewhere. > > Her going off on tangents or starting a conversation in what appears to be the middle of something and assuming that people know what came before might be part of the problem. Don't know if that made sense or not. This communication thing can be so tricky! > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Anita >> To: Catherine McKay >> Cc: Mary Morris ; JONIMITCHELL DISCUSSION LIST >> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:15:47 PM >> Subject: Re: Joni musings >> >> On 27 Jul 2013, at 18:17, Catherine McKay >> "As far as people not understanding her, I don't see how anyone could >> be expected to read between the lines and understand the points she was trying >> to make" >> >> Cat, don't you think most of us hope that folk will 'get' what >> we're saying without explanation? I know I do. What seems totally sensible >> in my world view I realise is insanity to others - particularly personal >> politics. I often think that my posts to JMDL are clearly outlining my ideas, >> but then I realise they're not.(though sometimes I do) - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:38:00 -0500 From: Sharon Watkins Subject: Graham Nash Autobiography Graham Nash's autobiography, Wild Tales, is available for pre-order at grahamnash.com. Probably will have Joni content. General release of the book is scheduled for Fall 2013. Sent from my iPhone - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:39:12 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Mike Shipley RIP I posted this on the Facebook JMDL page, but for those of us who don't use that page, it was announced that recording engineer Mike Shipley passed away yesterday. Mike was groundbreaking in the emerging art of mixing during the 80s. He moved out to LA at the request of Elliott Roberts to work with Joni on Dog Eat Dog, the first of several albums he would record and/or mix for her. It has not yet been announced what the cause of death was. A summary of the projects he was best known for can be read here: http://www.allmusic.com/artist/mike-shipley-mn0000485325/biography Dave - ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2013 #299 ********************************* - ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2013 #1096 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------