From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #643 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 30 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 643 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Retro Covers #65 [Bob Muller ] Re: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:10:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Retro Covers #65 Happy weekend to everyone - while I have covers on the brain, here's a retread of Volume 65 for those of you playing catchup or who might have missed it the first time. http://tinyurl.com/7cwm9mu 1. Mike Ragogna - Night Ride Home Medley 2. Matt Flinders - Both Sides Now 3. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - For Free 4. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - Conversation 5. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - The Circle Game 6. The John Cameron Orchestra - Both Sides Now 7. Rose Mary Rees - Chelsea Morning (Purple Mix) 8. Wally Whyton - Big Yellow Taxi 9. Ken Hamilton - The Circle Game 10. Joe Cantada - Both Sides Now 11. Robert Mosci - River 12. Voce - Big Yellow Taxi 13. Susan Jansen - The Circle Game 14. Steve Situm - Both Sides Now 15. Steve Situm - Michael From Mountains 16. Patrick McGinley & Family Style - Big Yellow Taxi 17. Gary Shum & Carl Occhipinti - The Circle Game 18. Alice Babs - Both Sides Now 19. Debra Blaquiere - Michael From Mountains 20. George Kahn - Woodstock 20 songs, 20 hits! (Actually a bit of a cheese platter but several here that you'll like I'm sure). Bob NP: George Kahn, "Woodstock" (my fave on the disc) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:20:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! Danilo, I'm sad for you too. Perhaps someday, we will always keep our hope. And if you're ashamed of the way Italian companies operate, try living in America! Bob NP: Mike Ragogna, "Night Ride Home Medley" ________________________________ From: Danilo Monno To: Bob Muller ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:56 AM Subject: RE: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! :( I was so expecting that. Let me try to explain what happened. Some companies have been bidding for a contract to organize the Festival and the winning company won of course because of the artists they presented, although they did not have any kind of agreement with the company. This is so typical Italian. I'm so sad and ashamed. Danilo > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:23:46 -0700 > From: scjoniguy@yahoo.com > Subject: No Joni in Milan - cancel that flight Sue! > To: joni@smoe.org > > http://tinyurl.com/chdosx8 > > What I could translate from this article in > Italian states that Joni's management has QUICKLY denied that she will be > performing at this event. > > As I suspected, too good to be true. > > Bob > > NP: > Steve Situm, "Michael From Mountains" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:14:52 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Auto-tune NJC Christopher, I believe the MXR Pitch Transposer was your box from the 80's. It was not usually used to correct a singer's tuning as much as to create interesting doubling effects. Godley and Creme used it to great effect on their incredible records. It had a very warbly and obvious sound so stealth fixes were not its strong point. Vari-Speed was simply a knob that altered the motor speed of a tape deck so pitch and tempo were locked together. It was common at the end of a production to goose the tape speed up or down a bit (up giving a bit more bounce to the finished song, down giving a heavier weight to the song and bigger low end.) Geoff Emerick, the EMI/Abbey Road engineer who recorded most of the Beatles albums talks about ways they used to use it in his wonderful book "Here, There, and Everywhere." Most notably, about thirty different takes of Strawberry Fields Forever had been recorded, all at slightly different tempos and even keys. Lennon decided he liked the first minute or so of one take and the remainder of another, but they were in different keys and different tempos. George Martin explained the problem to Lennon who told him "you're a clever chap, you'll figure it out." By a fluke Emerick found he could Vari-Speed one of the takes to make it match the other in tempo and key and was able to join them with no audible edit point. So studio trickery has been around a long time (Les Paul and Mary Ford's stacked guitars and vocals in the fifties was another sound that was fresh and commercial, completely relying on Paul's invention of the multi-track tape deck. But maybe pitch correction is in a different category of studio trickery. It's there to hide lack of skill rather than to assist creative work. You would think that the music industry would want the artists it promotes to be excellent musicians but instead they totally embraced the signal processing tools to make anyone with the look they needed have the sound they needed, and the average consumer was until recently unaware of the fakery. Of course now anyone with a computer can record themselves and stick some Auto-tune on and start to believe they too have a shot at being a star, which I suppose is exactly why Antares have made a mint selling it. As a final irony, there are even singers now who have learned how to sing in the "Auto-tune style" using just their natural voice! On Apr 27, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Christopher Treacy wrote: > Catherine, > The differentiation you make pretty much summarizes it (although > now--truly evil--instruments are often monitored with corrective software as > well). It all falls under the heading of "digital signal processing," and it's > one of the reasons I really started to lose my patience as a music critic... > people don't play fair anymore. I won't co-sign for it. I love going to see > Shawn Colvin - just a gal and her guitar, warts and all. She won't even use an > electronic guitar tuner. > > > Autotune was actually available in some capacity > before 1997 - I interviewed a CEO at Antares and spoke with the gentleman who > designed the software plug-in for pro-tools that Antares ended up buying. He > told me the original idea was to use it in community settings - specifically > his (or his wife's, can't remember now) church choir. He said he'd feel gutted > to know he'd unleashed something that was detrimental to our culture. And I > happen to think autotune is, in fact, damaging beyond our wildest > imaginations. Kids who listen to mainstream pop (including Taylor Swift, who'd > be NOTHING without her pitch correction and vocal production value) don't > really know what the human voice sounds like anymore. So, when they hear > someone like Neil Young, they can't get past how pitch-y his vocal style is to > appreciate his artistry. Indie-pop fans are substantially better off because > they thrive on a certain lo-fi scrappiness, but pitch control is still used > there > too, albeit more gingerly. > > > Joni is involved enough in the production of > her projects to make sure they stay pure, but a lot of "recording artists" are > not nearly as involved in the production, mixing and mastering of their > recordings and AT/Melodyne is applied without their knowledge or say-so. I > don't have a big issue with someone using pitch correction to get over a > really difficult hump in the studio. And I might even be willing to look the > other way when someone uses it sparingly in a live setting, if they simply > can't get around an important note and people have paid big bucks to hear them > hit it (James Taylor and Carole King, for instance, applied some sparing pitch > correction to their shows a couple summers ago). But this notion of entirely > pitch-corrected shows and songs on the radio makes it impossible for me to > enjoy. Even folks like Mary J Blige are suspect. People think she's a vocal > powerhouse, but it's not so. Mariah Carey has done so much damage to her voice > over > the years, she couldn't tour without it, unless she's going to sync the whole > show. Between vocal fills and pitch correction, Mariah probably sings about > 25% of the material she does live. > > People will defend pitch correction and > say it makes them a better singer because they can focus more on powerful > delivery and less on coloring within the lines, but I would say the people > genuinely benefiting from it are few and far between. For most, I think it > breeds laziness. > > I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but I'm sure > Joni used something called vari-speed from time to time. It was the pitch > control of the 70's and basically involved slight increases and decreases in > the speed of the vocal line to preserve the pitch when joined with the rest of > the studio tracks. There was another tool used in the 80's, the name of which > escapes me now. In summary, there's always been some studio 'cheating,' but > nothing like what we're witnessing now. > > > Sorry for the long rant - I saw > this come up amid the Taylor Swift commentary and had to speak up. > > > Cheers, > Chris > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: JMDL Digest > > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Sent: Thursday, April > 26, 2012 4:04 PM > Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 > > > JMDL Digest > Thursday, April 26 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 607 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS > and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: auto tune? (NJC) > [Catherine McKay ] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: > Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:02:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Catherine McKay > > Subject: Re: auto tune? (NJC) > > Maybe I don't really > understand how Autotune works, but isn't the voice > processed through something > that "corrects" it, whereas a guitar tuner just > helps you tune your guitar, > but doesn't process it to keep it in tune? > Seriously, I dunno. I don't have a > guitar tuner. All I've got is a metronome > that also plays an A and then I tune > the strings relative to the A string and > it works. Sometimes I go to one of > those online guitar tuners. > > > How much of a > correction is it possible to make > to someone's voice if the person is > seriously offkey? Does it only work if the > person is slightly flat or slightly > sharp? And then there's the vocals on > "Glee" where, to me, all of the people > seem to have the same voice. I wouldn't > be able to tell one from the other, > and they all sound like something > generated by a computer in any case. There's > just something *wrong* about they > way they sound, and it's not easy to put a > finger on what it is. I'm not sure > what's worse: the voices that all sound the > same, or the ones that use > Autotune (I'm assuming that's what it is) to > deliberately distort their voices > (and yet, they still all sound the same.) > Didn't know about click tracks for > drummers. I guess if it works like a > metronome, it's OK for practice, but > seems kind of wrong for live playing, > although I'm not really sure why: I just > think that, by the time they're ready > to perform, they should have it down. >> ________________________________ >> > From: Dave Blackburn > >> To: Lori Fye > >> Cc: jmdl > >> Sent: Thursday, April > 26, 2012 3:46:24 PM >> Subject: > Re: auto tune? (NJC) >> >> At this point > Auto-tuning on most pop vocals is akin > to Photoshop on magazine models. ie the > rule not the exception. >> >> Is it so > different though from electronic tuners > helping you tune your guitar > accurately or click tracks helping drummers stay > at a steady tempo? It's just > a more advanced gadget. Maybe we've always jumped > at the chance to "improve" > our playing/singing... > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest > V2012 #607 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the > list, send tojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #643 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send tojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------