From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #633 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, April 28 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 633 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 [Christopher Treacy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:38:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Treacy Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 Catherine, The differentiation you make pretty much summarizes it (although now--truly evil--instruments are often monitored with corrective software as well). It all falls under the heading of "digital signal processing," and it's one of the reasons I really started to lose my patience as a music critic... people don't play fair anymore. I won't co-sign for it. I love going to see Shawn Colvin - just a gal and her guitar, warts and all. She won't even use an electronic guitar tuner. Autotune was actually available in some capacity before 1997 - I interviewed a CEO at Antares and spoke with the gentleman who designed the software plug-in for pro-tools that Antares ended up buying. He told me the original idea was to use it in community settings - specifically his (or his wife's, can't remember now) church choir. He said he'd feel gutted to know he'd unleashed something that was detrimental to our culture. And I happen to think autotune is, in fact, damaging beyond our wildest imaginations. Kids who listen to mainstream pop (including Taylor Swift, who'd be NOTHING without her pitch correction and vocal production value) don't really know what the human voice sounds like anymore. So, when they hear someone like Neil Young, they can't get past how pitch-y his vocal style is to appreciate his artistry. Indie-pop fans are substantially better off because they thrive on a certain lo-fi scrappiness, but pitch control is still used there too, albeit more gingerly. Joni is involved enough in the production of her projects to make sure they stay pure, but a lot of "recording artists" are not nearly as involved in the production, mixing and mastering of their recordings and AT/Melodyne is applied without their knowledge or say-so. I don't have a big issue with someone using pitch correction to get over a really difficult hump in the studio. And I might even be willing to look the other way when someone uses it sparingly in a live setting, if they simply can't get around an important note and people have paid big bucks to hear them hit it (James Taylor and Carole King, for instance, applied some sparing pitch correction to their shows a couple summers ago). But this notion of entirely pitch-corrected shows and songs on the radio makes it impossible for me to enjoy. Even folks like Mary J Blige are suspect. People think she's a vocal powerhouse, but it's not so. Mariah Carey has done so much damage to her voice over the years, she couldn't tour without it, unless she's going to sync the whole show. Between vocal fills and pitch correction, Mariah probably sings about 25% of the material she does live. People will defend pitch correction and say it makes them a better singer because they can focus more on powerful delivery and less on coloring within the lines, but I would say the people genuinely benefiting from it are few and far between. For most, I think it breeds laziness. I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but I'm sure Joni used something called vari-speed from time to time. It was the pitch control of the 70's and basically involved slight increases and decreases in the speed of the vocal line to preserve the pitch when joined with the rest of the studio tracks. There was another tool used in the 80's, the name of which escapes me now. In summary, there's always been some studio 'cheating,' but nothing like what we're witnessing now. Sorry for the long rant - I saw this come up amid the Taylor Swift commentary and had to speak up. Cheers, Chris ________________________________ From: JMDL Digest To: joni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:04 PM Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #607 JMDL Digest Thursday, April 26 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 607 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Re: auto tune? (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: auto tune? (NJC) Maybe I don't really understand how Autotune works, but isn't the voice processed through something that "corrects" it, whereas a guitar tuner just helps you tune your guitar, but doesn't process it to keep it in tune? Seriously, I dunno. I don't have a guitar tuner. All I've got is a metronome that also plays an A and then I tune the strings relative to the A string and it works. Sometimes I go to one of those online guitar tuners. How much of a correction is it possible to make to someone's voice if the person is seriously offkey? Does it only work if the person is slightly flat or slightly sharp? And then there's the vocals on "Glee" where, to me, all of the people seem to have the same voice. I wouldn't be able to tell one from the other, and they all sound like something generated by a computer in any case. There's just something *wrong* about they way they sound, and it's not easy to put a finger on what it is. I'm not sure what's worse: the voices that all sound the same, or the ones that use Autotune (I'm assuming that's what it is) to deliberately distort their voices (and yet, they still all sound the same.) Didn't know about click tracks for drummers. I guess if it works like a metronome, it's OK for practice, but seems kind of wrong for live playing, although I'm not really sure why: I just think that, by the time they're ready to perform, they should have it down. >________________________________ > From: Dave Blackburn >To: Lori Fye >Cc: jmdl >Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 3:46:24 PM >Subject: Re: auto tune? (NJC) > >At this point Auto-tuning on most pop vocals is akin to Photoshop on magazine models. ie the rule not the exception. > >Is it so different though from electronic tuners helping you tune your guitar accurately or click tracks helping drummers stay at a steady tempo? It's just a more advanced gadget. Maybe we've always jumped at the chance to "improve" our playing/singing... - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #607 ***************************** - ------- To post messages to the list, send tojoni@smoe.org. 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