From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1775 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 10 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1775 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: how many suscribers really? NJC [Victor Johnson ] Re: Zadie Smith article [Catherine McKay ] RE: My play - now njc ["patrick leader" ] how many suscribers really? NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: how many suscribers really? NJC [Sally ] A Christmas song ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: how many suscribers really? ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: how many suscribers really? [Corey Blake ] Re: how many suscribers really? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: how many suscribers really? NJC [Sally ] Re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith NJC [Sally ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:15:05 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? NJC POTATO! On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Sally wrote: > Hmmmm...maybe we should all start posting one word commentary just to stir things up a bit ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:31:15 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? NJC Laurent, if you're talking DAD (and I assume you still are - see? I can use acronyms!), then it seems to me a lot of people don't say thanks. And a lot of people don't download. But I also think that part of that is due to DAD's relatively small user numbers. If I recall correctly, they only let a certain number join, due to bandwidth issues and so on. So, it's bound to happen that sometimes you might take the time to upload something and maybe only ten people will download it and then maybe only one will thank you (going by the 10% thing.) Maybe it's best if only a few people download but that most of them appreciate it, even if they don't say thanks. As for Mr Muller, I think I've downloaded all of those damn Joni covers (frisbees!) at least for the last few years and I guess one of the reasons I don't always thank you is that some people on this list are (apparently) cranky and get pissed off if people post one-or-two-word comments (like, "Thanks" or "Me too!" or "LOL!") And, then again, sometimes I don't listen to them until much later. Which is stupid, since we all know that some of them are bound to suck and others are diamonds in the rough, or even diamonds out of the rough. The fact that you do it at all (either of you, or anyone who does this stuff) suggests a level of commitment beyond my capabilities and attention span. Plus, I'm pretty sure that all of us, at one time or another, think that nobody loves us, everybody hates us, so goin' to the garden to eat worms. Human nature. We all want to be liked/loved/appreciated. So - let the freakin' love-fest continue! >________________________________ > From: Laurent Olszer >To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com >Cc: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:39:18 PM >Subject: RE: how many suscribers really? NJC > >Bob, i've been thinking about the reasons for sharing. > >Seems to me that when you put all this effort into the covers, it's a >statement of love for Joni and also a way to promote often unknown artists >who do these great covers. > >About my reasons: promoting new or unknown artists, sharing recordings that >are too good to hoard, answering requests, selfishly enticing people to >share what they have, and thanking fans for having shared or having made me >discover some artist. > >Now, sometimes i upload some big name and it's the hit i expect, sometimes i >upload some unknown and i don't expect anything. >Sometimes i upload a great video (if i may say so myself) of a great concert >by a great artist whom i love (for example Kevin Eubanks), of whom there is >practically nothing out there in film. This is when it hurts when the thanks >ratio flops. > >I didn't know how to conclude and i just read Jim's story from the New >Testament; at least i got 10%, the same as Jesus, hallelujah i'm cured from >the ratio blues. Thank you all dearly! > >Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 00:39:18 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: RE: how many suscribers really? NJC Bob, i've been thinking about the reasons for sharing. Seems to me that when you put all this effort into the covers, it's a statement of love for Joni and also a way to promote often unknown artists who do these great covers. About my reasons: promoting new or unknown artists, sharing recordings that are too good to hoard, answering requests, selfishly enticing people to share what they have, and thanking fans for having shared or having made me discover some artist. Now, sometimes i upload some big name and it's the hit i expect, sometimes i upload some unknown and i don't expect anything. Sometimes i upload a great video (if i may say so myself) of a great concert by a great artist whom i love (for example Kevin Eubanks), of whom there is practically nothing out there in film. This is when it hurts when the thanks ratio flops. I didn't know how to conclude and i just read Jim's story from the New Testament; at least i got 10%, the same as Jesus, hallelujah i'm cured from the ratio blues. Thank you all dearly! Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:11:24 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Zadie Smith article Joniphiles - Here's the Zadie Smith article on Joni for your enjoyment. I'm hoping someone can convert it to text for me... us... so that I can put it in the Library. Any takers? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Zadie_on_Joni.pdf Enjoy! Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:39:37 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Zadie Smith article I'll do it. >________________________________ > From: Les Irvin >To: Joni List >Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 8:11:24 PM >Subject: Zadie Smith article > >Joniphiles - > >Here's the Zadie Smith article on Joni for your enjoyment. I'm hoping someone can convert it to text for me... us... so that I can put it in the Library. Any takers? > >https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Zadie_on_Joni.pdf > >Enjoy! >Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:06:53 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: My play - now njc hi jamie - what a lovely review. i wish i could fly to london to see 'unbroken line' congratulations. patrick np - terry riley - les yeux fermes - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Jamie Zubairi Home Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:42 PM To: Joni JMDL Subject: SJC My play If you're in London and haven't yet seen it, my play Unbroken Line has been getting great reviews like this http://www.ayoungertheatre.com/review-unbroken-line-jamie-zubairi/ And for those of us that will spot it, there are also 2 Joni lines in the script. One which gets a laugh. Jamie Zubairi Actor, Painter, Voiceover, Creative Appearing in Unbroken Line until 15th Dec at Ovalhouse see www.ovalhouse.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 01:50:57 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: how many suscribers really? NJC So - let the freakin' love-fest continue! 'Cos in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make the Beatles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:51:25 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? NJC Catherine said: > guess one of the reasons I don't always thank you is that > some people on this list are (apparently) cranky and get pissed off if people > post one-or-two-word comments (like, "Thanks" or "Me too!" or "LOL!") Hmmmm...maybe we should all start posting one word commentary just to stir things up a bit and sort of...er, level the playing field! I mean, as we are all well aware, just one little teeny tiny insignificant seeming word can make ALL the difference! And that's the damn truth! I'm sure that all of the writers on this list (as well as Joni herself) would admit to having agonized at length from time to time over just ONE word! Seems to me, folks should be allowed to post as many words as they like..as long as they aren't aflame! . It doesn't mean anybody has to read them... ;D Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Dec 10, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Laurent, if you're talking DAD (and I assume you still are - see? I can use > acronyms!), then it seems to me a lot of people don't say thanks. And a lot of > people don't download. But I also think that part of that is due to DAD's > relatively small user numbers. If I recall correctly, they only let a certain > number join, due to bandwidth issues and so on. So, it's bound to happen that > sometimes you might take the time to upload something and maybe only ten > people will download it and then maybe only one will thank you (going by the > 10% thing.) Maybe it's best if only a few people download but that most of > them appreciate it, even if they don't say thanks. > > As for Mr Muller, I think > I've downloaded all of those damn Joni covers (frisbees!) at least for the > last few years and I guess one of the reasons I don't always thank you is that > some people on this list are (apparently) cranky and get pissed off if people > post one-or-two-word comments (like, "Thanks" or "Me too!" or "LOL!") And, > then again, sometimes I don't listen to them until much later. Which is > stupid, since we all know that some of them are bound to suck and others are > diamonds in the rough, or even diamonds out of the rough. The fact that you do > it at all (either of you, or anyone who does this stuff) suggests a level of > commitment beyond my capabilities and attention span. > > Plus, I'm pretty sure > that all of us, at one time or another, think that nobody loves us, everybody > hates us, so goin' to the garden to eat worms. Human nature. We all want to be > liked/loved/appreciated. > > > So - let the freakin' love-fest continue! >> ________________________________ >> From: Laurent Olszer > >> To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com >> Cc: joni@smoe.org >> Sent: > Monday, December 10, 2012 6:39:18 PM >> Subject: RE: how many suscribers really? > NJC >> >> Bob, i've been thinking about the reasons for sharing. >> >> Seems to me > that when you put all this effort into the covers, it's a >> statement of love > for Joni and also a way to promote often unknown artists >> who do these great > covers. >> >> About my reasons: promoting new or unknown artists, sharing > recordings that >> are too good to hoard, answering requests, selfishly enticing > people to >> share what they have, and thanking fans for having shared or having > made me >> discover some artist. >> >> Now, sometimes i upload some big name and > it's the hit i expect, sometimes i >> upload some unknown and i don't expect > anything. >> Sometimes i upload a great video (if i may say so myself) of a > great concert >> by a great artist whom i love (for example Kevin Eubanks), of > whom there is >> practically nothing out there in film. This is when it hurts > when the thanks >> ratio flops. >> >> I didn't know how to conclude and i just read > Jim's story from the New >> Testament; at least i got 10%, the same as Jesus, > hallelujah i'm cured from >> the ratio blues. Thank you all dearly! >> >> Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:15:44 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: A Christmas song Bene wrote: Here is a very beautiful rendition of River. I can't say that I planned to watch Denmark's Radio's grand Christmas show - I don't like these grand productions, but I loved this - a Danish/Icelandic duo, Tina Dickow and Helig Jonsson. Enjoy, and merry Christmas! www.dr.dk/TV/se/drs-store-juleshow/drs-store-juleshow-del-1#!/14:00 I just love Tina Dico/Dickow, in fact will travel next spring to catch the tour. Sorry Bob i know you can't stand her. PS: Bene if you're in Copenhagen this coming friday be sure to go and see Daniel Lanois with the "beautiful" Brian Blade. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:02:28 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: RE: how many suscribers really? Hey Bob, i know you are in a better position to talk about this topic and i appreciate your words of wisdom, as always. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:36:01 -0800 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? I've discovered having no expectations at all is the way to go. It's almost impossible to achieve such a zen state but it's the best place to be instead of wasting time and emotional energy on keeping a tally. Sent from my iPad On Dec 10, 2012, at 12:12 PM, "Laurent Olszer" wrote: > On Dec 7, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Laurent Olszer wrote: >> When i upload a music dvd that took time and effort to make, all i > expect is a "thank you" and i'd rather please 5 grateful people than 500 > ungrateful ones. >> Some friends put up a lot of stuff on youtube, all they're after is the > largest possible audience and they don't care how many thanks they get, if > any. Their logic i guess is that people thank you by downloading > orwatching, personally i don't get it. >> Any comments? >> Laurent > > Paul replied > I think Anita put it about as nicely as anyone could. As usual, I am less > tactful. > If you are doing it for the 'thank yous,' you either are a poor judge of > human nature or selfishly seeking self-aggrandizement. > Altruism, baby, altruism. > > > Sorry guys but in addition to being selfish and/or a poor judge i must also > be dumb because i still don't get it. > > Anita wrote i should lower my expectations. How can i lower them if i expect > nothing but basic politeness? I don't really expect flowers, but what > exactly is the level below my basic expectation? Is there an intermediate > level or is it a plain 0? > FYI Right now the ratio of thanks i get is 10-25% and I'm quite happy when i > get 25%. > > "Poor judge of human nature" > Oh Paul baby, you have no idea how i feel about human nature. I know there > is the worst out there but also the best. Now, this torrent thing is like a > large community, not on a youtube scale. So why not expect the best, or > should i say a minimum, from people who are sensitive to the same music as > we are? > Why should i be content to witness that we live in a world of rudeness and > not try to do anything about it? > Sometimes i jump on a torrent that has like 50 leechers already and not even > 1 thank you. I feel terrible for the uploader when i see this, and i will > apologize for the previous 50 ungrateful leechers. This comment often sparks > a flow of thanks as if the next leechers realize that this is not right, and > it shall never be right in my book. > > "Selfish self aggrandizement": aside from the fact that we're anonymous > (with an avatar) on this torrent site, what is wrong with expecting a tiny > recognition for a job well done or merely appreciation for making the effort > to share? I could spare the hassle and the torrent site would still continue > without me. Yet I'm sharing the music i've captured because i know it will > make some good people happy and this is my way of thanking them for all the > music they've shared. > What's selfish and non altruistic about that? > > You're probably going to reply that we should all be total altruists and > keep giving without receiving motivation. That motivation is in the act of > giving itself. I confess i'm not anywhere near the level of a Jesus or a > Ghandi. How do you guys do it? Really i want to understand this giving > without motivation thing please. > > Cheers > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:43:39 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? Laurent, it should be totally possible to re-calibrate your expectations based on historical data. I've been putting these covers downloads out (as well as mailing cd's) for over a decade. I do it because I love it and know that there are others that do too. It makes me happy to share something that others will enjoy, whether they acknowledge it or not. Every once in a great while we have a little thread that pops up because of it, and every once in a great while someone will send me an off-list message about it. I know I can count on Jimmy to give me some feedback and it's always great to see. Based on what typically happens historically (30-40 downloads) and how much feedback/thanks I get (1-2 people), I would be foolish to expect 15-20 people to say thank you or something of the sort. And it's not why I do it anyway. Re-visit the REASONS you share what you do, and adjust your expectations, and you should be fine. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:28:44 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: how many suscribers really? NJC Hi all, Bob...in other words, you have a problem with "no problem" but no problem with "thanks/no thanks" or lack thereof! Just to clarify, of course! ;D. Signed (with thanks, no problem), SillySally Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Dec 10, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Laurent, > > I suppose I should say "thanks" for that. :-) > > Similar subject but a different gripe - what does rub me wrong is when I > tell someone "thank you" and their response is "no problem". I know that's > where the language has shifted to but it still doesn't sound as good as > "you're welcome", "happy to do it", etc - something more positive than "no > problem". > > Bob > > > > > > From: "Laurent Olszer" > To: > Cc: , > Date: 12/10/2012 03:56 PM > Subject: RE: how many suscribers really? > > > > Hey Bob, i know you are in a better position to talk about this topic and > i appreciate your words of wisdom, as always. > > Laurent > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:35:47 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith NJC Catherine, Frankly it is at the top of my list of guilt and likely ultimate regret...that I am going to die surrounded by the piles of books and magazines that I have queued up around me! So much to read, so little time!! Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Dec 10, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > I love that magazine, but I wouldn't subscribe because I'd never be able to keep up with it, and I already hoard my "Acoustic Guitar" magazines and don't need any more hoardin' material. I read the New Yorker when I'm at the dentist or doctor (those dentists or doctors that have the good magazines, that is, not the stupid Golf magazines, or the ten-year-old fashion mags.) > > I've read "On Beauty" (a novel) by Zadie Smith and quite liked it. She is probably most famous for her novel "White teeth," which I haven't read, but which I keep meaning to. (Yes, I am well on my way to hell with all my good intentions.) > > From: Sally > To: Richard Flynn > Cc: "" > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:35:03 PM > Subject: Re: New Yorker essay by Zadie Smith > > Hi Richard, > > I used to bury my head in the NY'er cover to cover, typically fascinating in some way every issue. Thank you for the heads up on this article. I'm damn sorry my subscription lapsed but worth the trip to the news stand to buy it! After reading about Zadie Smith, I have to say I'm going to check out her books as well! Thanks again Richard! > > Sally > > Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > > On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "Richard Flynn" wrote: > > > The December 17th New Yorker has novelist Zadie Smith's personal essay, > > "Some Notes on Attunement: My Voyage Around Joni Mitchell." It is > > notavailable digitally except to subscribers (just read it on my iPad).A > > very interesting essay. > > > > > > > > Abstract here: > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/12/17/121217fa_fact_smith ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1775 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------