From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1769 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, December 8 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1769 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch ["Mark" Subject: Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch I'm glad David brought this up as well. 'Stay in Touch' certainly sounds like it is about the beginning of Joni's relationship with Kilauren. However, my understanding has always been that Joni had completed the writing for 'Taming the Tiger' before the reunion with Kilauren. My recollection also tells me that when she was asked if the song were about reuniting with her daughter, her response was that the song was about herself & Donald Freed. But she went on to say that the feelings expressed in the lyric could very well describe the cautious but ecstatic nature of the new relationship between mother and daughter after finding their way back to one another. Thanks to Moni for that quote and David for the post that prompted her to send it to us. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Susan Tierney McNamara Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 4:46 PM To: Moni Kellermann ; David J. Phillips Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch Well I am gratified that David was right about the references to the I Ching even though the song was probably not about Kilauren ... (I always thought it was). Thanks Moni! Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Moni Kellermann wrote: Am 07.12.2012 16:14, Wie David J. Phillips so vortrefflich formulierte: > It struck me recently that "Stay in Touch" could very well be structured > around an I Ching hexagram. The song was discussed on this list back in 1998, you can read it here: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v03.n410 Quote: One of Tiger's many high points is the brief and beguiling "Stay in Touch,"Mitchell's ode to boyfriend Donald Freed. 'When we first met, we threw the I Ching,' she says. "The book said 'to remember the beginning,' so I kept the essence of the idea and restructured the words. It seemed like a blueprint for proper conduct through the beginning phases of any intense attraction.' moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:46:17 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch Well I am gratified that David was right about the references to the I Ching even though the song was probably not about Kilauren ... (I always thought it was). Thanks Moni! Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Moni Kellermann wrote: Am 07.12.2012 16:14, Wie David J. Phillips so vortrefflich formulierte: > It struck me recently that "Stay in Touch" could very well be structured > around an I Ching hexagram. The song was discussed on this list back in 1998, you can read it here: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v03.n410 Quote: One of Tiger's many high points is the brief and beguiling "Stay in Touch,"Mitchell's ode to boyfriend Donald Freed. 'When we first met, we threw the I Ching,' she says. "The book said 'to remember the beginning,' so I kept the essence of the idea and restructured the words. It seemed like a blueprint for proper conduct through the beginning phases of any intense attraction.' moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:11:17 +0100 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch Am 07.12.2012 16:14, Wie David J. Phillips so vortrefflich formulierte: > It struck me recently that "Stay in Touch" could very well be structured > around an I Ching hexagram. The song was discussed on this list back in 1998, you can read it here: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v03.n410 Quote: One of Tiger's many high points is the brief and beguiling "Stay in Touch,"Mitchell's ode to boyfriend Donald Freed. 'When we first met, we threw the I Ching,' she says. "The book said 'to remember the beginning,' so I kept the essence of the idea and restructured the words. It seemed like a blueprint for proper conduct through the beginning phases of any intense attraction.' moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:07:27 -0500 From: "David J. Phillips" Subject: Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch huh. well. there is nothing new under the sun, I guess. but i still think it's about meeting Kilauren, whatever Joni or anyone else says. djp On 07/12/12 16:1117, Moni Kellermann wrote: > Am 07.12.2012 16:14, Wie David J. Phillips so vortrefflich formulierte: >> It struck me recently that "Stay in Touch" could very well be structured >> around an I Ching hexagram. > > The song was discussed on this list back in 1998, you can read it here: > http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v03.n410 > > Quote: > > One of Tiger's many high points is the brief and beguiling "Stay in > Touch,"Mitchell's ode to boyfriend Donald Freed. 'When we first met, we > threw the I Ching,' she says. "The book said 'to remember the > beginning,' so I kept the essence of the idea and restructured the > words. It seemed like a blueprint for proper conduct through the > beginning phases of any intense attraction.' > > > moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:50:48 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch Brilliant deductions, David!!! I never noticed that but of course you are right. This may become another one of my obsessive projects, like way back in 1996 when I wanted to find out all the correct tunings to Joni's songs. See what you've started? I can see Joni running to throw the coins before her first conversation with Kilauren. I did a quick word search through Wilhelm's book and came up with a couple of quotes that match some of the lyrics. Your obvious one is in Hex 50 The Caldroun: Lyric: Clinging like fire to fuel The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing. Lyric: People will be envious Line Two of Hex 50: There is food in the ting. My comrades are envious, But they cannot harm me. Good fortune. In a period of advanced culture, it is of the greatest importance that one should achieve something significant. If a man concentrates on such real undertakings, he may indeed experience envy and disfavor, but that is not dangerous. The more he limits himself to his actual achievements, the less harm the envious inflict on him. If Joni had thrown coins that revealed Hex 50, line 2, the change would make Hex 56, The Wanderer. I am not completely satisfied with this, though because of the reference to clearing out old habits. That is more specific to other hexagrams. But I'm fighting a cold and have to take a nap now. Maybe the rest will be revealed in a dream!!! Thanks!!! Sue Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of David J. Phillips Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 10:15 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch It struck me recently that "Stay in Touch" could very well be structured around an I Ching hexagram. I don't have the expertise or the discipline to really wrack my Wilhelm to see what hexagram the whole song might be based on, but here are some of the lyrics that resonate: "burning brightly, clinging like fire to fuel" is the primary image for the trigram Li. many of the verses are written in a way that evokes the I Ching's slippery insight ("part of this is permanent, part of this is passing, so we must be loyal and wary," "during times like these the wise are influential, they can bear the imperfections, they can keep the harmony" "in the middle of this continent, in the middle of our time on earth we perceive one another.") I know there's at least one other I Ching devotee on this list (Hi Susan!) so I ask: does this reading of Stay in Touch make sense? Are there other songs that are structured like changing hexagrams? djp ps: "guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching" VERY i ching ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:11:24 -0500 From: "David J. Phillips" Subject: Re: Joni, the I Ching, and Stay in Touch On 07/12/12 14:5048, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > Brilliant deductions, David!!! I never noticed that but of course > you are right. This may become another one of my obsessive projects, > like way back in 1996 when I wanted to find out all the correct > tunings to Joni's songs. See what you've started? Yes! I can't wait! djp ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1769 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------