From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1725 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 29 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1725 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Taylor Swift as Joni ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Another meal with Joni [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Another meal with Joni [Betsy ] Re: Queer, if you ask me [Anita ] Re: just wondering, njc [Sally ] Re: Queer, if you ask me [Lori Fye ] Re: Queer, if you ask me [Catherine McKay ] Re: Queer, if you ask me [Sally ] just wondering, njc [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: just wondering, njc [Anita ] Re: just wondering, njc [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Queer, if you ask me [Betsy ] RE: Queer, if you ask me ["John McGloin" ] Re: Queer, if you ask me njc [Lori Fye ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 15:06:37 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Taylor Swift as Joni I don't know what Taylor Swift would or wouldn't do, but it would be like that movie where Joaquin Phoenix tried to sing Johnny Cash. Besides, she knows how to fret-sync! Plus she is enormously popular and looks the part. In related news, there was a feature on Taylor Swift in the slick mag that comes with the Sunday paper, and the byline was that these days she is looking at life and love "from both sides now". RR From: > "Randy Remote" wrote: > If the filmakers are smart (and can afford it) they will use Joni's >> music, and have Ms. Swift lipsync to it. > > First of all, Taylor Swift would never agree to that. > Secondly, what would be the point of casting someone with musical ability > but no proven experience as an actress if not to let her sing. If they > would > plan to use Joni's music or voice, they'd have to do it for the roles of > Carly and Carole as well and it would seem awkward in a film. In that > case, > they might as well cast real actresses, not singers. > Paul Ivice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 09:43:01 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Another meal with Joni The first time I heard "All I Want" I asked myself "what kind of weird guitar is THAT?" Bob From: Betsy To: joni@smoe.org Date: 11/28/2012 09:37 AM Subject: Another meal with Joni Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Well, I heard BYT at a pizza place a while back. Last night it was All I Want at a Mexican restaurant. I'm not sure I've ever heard that song in public, but it only took one strum to recognize it. (I told my other half that there are only a few dulcimer songs in pop music, and they're all on the same album. Sorry, Cyndi.) They seemed to be playing some early 70s mix for the next hour, and it made me realize that "the radio blared so bland" back then, too. Betsy NP on the clock radio My Heart Will Go On and my man cursing about "damn Canadians" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 06:33:43 -0800 From: Betsy Subject: Another meal with Joni Well, I heard BYT at a pizza place a while back. Last night it was All I Want at a Mexican restaurant. I'm not sure I've ever heard that song in public, but it only took one strum to recognize it. (I told my other half that there are only a few dulcimer songs in pop music, and they're all on the same album. Sorry, Cyndi.) They seemed to be playing some early 70s mix for the next hour, and it made me realize that "the radio blared so bland" back then, too. Betsy NP on the clock radio My Heart Will Go On and my man cursing about "damn Canadians" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:04:57 +0000 From: Anita Subject: Re: Queer, if you ask me Catherine wrote: > Interesting! I've never heard Joni's music described as "lesbian" music, so that makes me a lesbian, I suppose, and I'm OK with that label, even if it's just an honorary one. I'm also a fan of Rufus Wainwright, so I guess I'm a gay man too. Also OK with me! > I have never heard Joni's music described as lesbian either.Do we know where that comes from ? As for you,Catherine,labelling yourself as a lesbian or gay man,straight woman or straight man or everything and everone in between, you could just choose one label for yourself. I would suggest HOT! :-)) Love Luscious Les Lilac ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:51:17 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: just wondering, njc Omg...I'm going to marry one of you! But only if the gdamn government will un-uptight itself and allow me to. Thinking multicolored thoughts, Silly Sally the Prismatic Peach Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Nov 28, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Anita wrote: > Butch Brown I love you, > Les Lilac x > > On 28 Nov 2012, at 13:32, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > >> And the coolest thing about the JMDL is that it just does not matter. >> >> Love, >> Butch Brown ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:03:38 +0100 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Queer, if you ask me Always running behind the times ... Joni's music ... lesbian music? Not even close. There is an entire genre of lesbian music, much of it published by what was Olivia Records (which has morphed into olivia.com, which focuses on travel, retirement communities, etc., but which, sadly, left music behind long ago). Anymore, those of us "old dykes" who reference Cris Williamson, Meg Christian, and others who recorded on Olivia Records are "dating" ourselves (in terms of age, although some of us may be dating ourselves in terms of having given up on relationships, too). But Joni's music? NOT lesbian music. It may appeal to many lesbians, but it appeals to any thinking, intelligent, and soulful person who can delve into her lyrics, and even some who just enjoy a good, complicated melody. (I had a friend long ago who claimed that he never listened to lyrics at all ... any lyrics. I found that odd, but everyone's brain works differently.) Joni is clearly heterosexual. I can wish all I want, but ... if wishes were horses, all women would ride. :-) Lori, still in Dotzheim (Wiesbaden, Germany) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:36:01 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Queer, if you ask me Interesting! I've never heard Joni's music described as "lesbian" music, so that makes me a lesbian, I suppose, and I'm OK with that label, even if it's just an honorary one. I'm also a fan of Rufus Wainwright, so I guess I'm a gay man too. Also OK with me! Good music is good music, as far as I'm concerned and good lyrics resound with people of all races, genders and eras. I'm a fan of many artists, male, female, gay, straight or otherwise. Their messages and music are universal. Sometimes I think that a certain kind of man (the ones who describe themselves as "red-blooded" and so on - I think we all have red blood, though, don't we? ) don't like listening to any kind of "female" music. Maybe I'm painting with too wide a brush, but often the stuff that appeals to women doesn't appeal to the macho he-man type so much, although many of them would say they'd like to jump so-and-so's bones, even if they don't like her music. So, if a musician's followers are mostly female, then these men might see them as all "lesbian," which is often what straight (or so-called straight) men say about women who don't accept their neanderthal advances. ("It can't be me, so it has to be you!" I wish I had that kind of black-and-white, simple world-view.) And then again, I think that the vast majority of people on this list never post. I think the count, when last I heard, was between 800 and 900 on the list. Even if there are some duplications (e.g. you've signed up with your work email and also your home one), then I'm sure that only maybe ten per cent of people post, even irregularly. From an "it seems to me" point of view, then it seems to me that there are more gay/lesbian people represented on this list than there are supposedly in the general population. If I were to take a wild guess, I'd say that maybe half the people who post regularly here are LBG, etc. But then again, Joni's music also appeals to sensitive types. Maybe gay/lesbian (etc) people are more inclined to be sensitive because they've had to be more sensitive to their surroundings to survive in an apparently mostly straight world. Or maybe LBG people feel safe here, because they are accepted for who they are and not judged on one aspect of themselves, as they might be in some other areas. Of course, I could be just blowing smoke outta my arse! Whatever the case may be, I've met a lot of people on this list, both virtually and in person, and I have to say I can't think of one I didn't like! So, bring on the lesbian music! After all, Sappho of Lesbos was a poet! >________________________________ > From: Betsy >To: "joni@smoe.org" ; "treegreen1@hotmail.com" >Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:53:33 AM >Subject: Queer, if you ask me > >Marianne, > >I wouldn't dare guess how many listers fall in which part of the spectrum of sexual orientation, but it you're taking a poll, I'm straight. > >I don't understand how Joni's music is constantly described as "lesbian" music. That woman is a flaming heterosexual in word and deed. Maybe women fall in love with her because she's so beautiful, yet so headstrong and talented, that it seems impossible for her to be the woman behind the man. Not that she didn't try. > >As for gay men, just listen to Man to Man or Free Man in Paris or Two Grey Rooms. Joni is capable of translating a variety of experiences into song using empathy. > >Liza answered the question about why she was a gay icon, "Because they have good taste!" That definitely applies here. > >Betsy > >> What would you say is the percentage of lesbian and gay purple on this list? >> take a guess >> >> And, >> Why are so many gay people attracted to joni? >> >> Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0500 From: Sally Subject: Re: Queer, if you ask me AA pandered to my lower sense of contemplative reasoning when she noted: > Seriously, when it comes to meeting Joni and loving her ethereal music, you should know, Slutty Sally, that both my spirit and soul move to a much higher place - way beyond the lusty loins and dark desires your email infers. Listen Holy Hussy...I saw you at the Salty Sluts meeting so don't try to disavow your membership now! We know where to find you! But wait, I'm sure I saw Joni there also! Seems to me she's the Keeper of the Cards, is she not? Yours in determined devilishness and ongoing overtures, Silly Sally (Simple Simon's Reckless Sister) Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone On Nov 28, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Anita wrote: > On 28 Nov 2012, at 18:24, Sally wrote; > > "On the contrary she seems stubbornly straight (waz up with that Lucious? You spent the evening with her...we shoulda coached you better on recruiting)!!!" > > What makes you think I didn't? :-)) > > Seriously, when it comes to meeting Joni and loving her ethereal music, you should know, Slutty Sally, that both my spirit and soul move to a much higher place - way beyond the lusty loins and dark desires your email infers. > > (Mind you,what a great thread that would have been........'How I got down and dirty to pull Joni'..........) > Yours in holy chas titty > Angelic Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 13:18:50 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: just wondering, njc I don't much think of Joni's music as lesbian music. enjoying the discussion. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 15:50:35 +0000 From: Anita Subject: Re: just wondering, njc Butch Brown I love you, Les Lilac x On 28 Nov 2012, at 13:32, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > And the coolest thing about the JMDL is that it just does not matter. > > Love, > Butch Brown ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:32:16 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: just wondering, njc And the coolest thing about the JMDL is that it just does not matter. Love, Butch Brown From: Anita G To: Marianne Rizzo Cc: joni list Date: 11/28/2012 06:55 AM Subject: Re: just wondering, njc Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org On 27/11/2012, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > I am just wondering, > What would you say is the percentage of lesbian and gay purple on this > list? My emails seem to come into my inbox in black and white, so to know just what percentage of gay purple or, indeed, lesbian lilac there is on JMDL is hard to guess. There is, without doubt, a certain amount of butch brown tempered with sensitive scarlet and a fair bit of brilliant Blue, alongside some startling het henna. It seems that my personal pallette is simply overflowing with radiant rainbows this morning, Anita - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 06:53:33 -0800 From: Betsy Subject: Queer, if you ask me Marianne, I wouldn't dare guess how many listers fall in which part of the spectrum of sexual orientation, but it you're taking a poll, I'm straight. I don't understand how Joni's music is constantly described as "lesbian" music. That woman is a flaming heterosexual in word and deed. Maybe women fall in love with her because she's so beautiful, yet so headstrong and talented, that it seems impossible for her to be the woman behind the man. Not that she didn't try. As for gay men, just listen to Man to Man or Free Man in Paris or Two Grey Rooms. Joni is capable of translating a variety of experiences into song using empathy. Liza answered the question about why she was a gay icon, "Because they have good taste!" That definitely applies here. Betsy > What would you say is the percentage of lesbian and gay purple on this list? > take a guess > > And, > Why are so many gay people attracted to joni? > > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:55:43 -0000 From: "John McGloin" Subject: RE: Queer, if you ask me Hi Synchronicity strikes again. There happens to be a couple of interesting gigs coming up in London on 11 January at Pizza Express Jazz Club. Ian Shaw who is a fine jazz vocalist and also happens to be gay and is doing 2 evenings of music - one of Joni Mitchell music and another of Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen music. Cheers John (Fan of lesbian music and the last time I looked, my blood was red. I can't blow smoke though!!!) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: 28 November 2012 15:36 To: Betsy; joni@smoe.org; treegreen1@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Queer, if you ask me Interesting! I've never heard Joni's music described as "lesbian" music, so that makes me a lesbian, I suppose, and I'm OK with that label, even if it's just an honorary one. I'm also a fan of Rufus Wainwright, so I guess I'm a gay man too. Also OK with me! Good music is good music, as far as I'm concerned and good lyrics resound with people of all races, genders and eras. I'm a fan of many artists, male, female, gay, straight or otherwise. Their messages and music are universal. Sometimes I think that a certain kind of man (the ones who describe themselves as "red-blooded" and so on - I think we all have red blood, though, don't we? ) don't like listening to any kind of "female" music. Maybe I'm painting with too wide a brush, but often the stuff that appeals to women doesn't appeal to the macho he-man type so much, although many of them would say they'd like to jump so-and-so's bones, even if they don't like her music. So, if a musician's followers are mostly female, then these men might see them as all "lesbian," which is often what straight (or so-called straight) men say about women who don't accept their neanderthal advances. ("It can't be me, so it has to be you!" I wish I had that kind of black-and-white, simple world-view.) And then again, I think that the vast majority of people on this list never post. I think the count, when last I heard, was between 800 and 900 on the list. Even if there are some duplications (e.g. you've signed up with your work email and also your home one), then I'm sure that only maybe ten per cent of people post, even irregularly. From an "it seems to me" point of view, then it seems to me that there are more gay/lesbian people represented on this list than there are supposedly in the general population. If I were to take a wild guess, I'd say that maybe half the people who post regularly here are LBG, etc. But then again, Joni's music also appeals to sensitive types. Maybe gay/lesbian (etc) people are more inclined to be sensitive because they've had to be more sensitive to their surroundings to survive in an apparently mostly straight world. Or maybe LBG people feel safe here, because they are accepted for who they are and not judged on one aspect of themselves, as they might be in some other areas. Of course, I could be just blowing smoke outta my arse! Whatever the case may be, I've met a lot of people on this list, both virtually and in person, and I have to say I can't think of one I didn't like! So, bring on the lesbian music! After all, Sappho of Lesbos was a poet! >________________________________ > From: Betsy >To: "joni@smoe.org" ; "treegreen1@hotmail.com" > >Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:53:33 AM >Subject: Queer, if you ask me > >Marianne, > >I wouldn't dare guess how many listers fall in which part of the spectrum of sexual orientation, but it you're taking a poll, I'm straight. > >I don't understand how Joni's music is constantly described as "lesbian" music. That woman is a flaming heterosexual in word and deed. Maybe women fall in love with her because she's so beautiful, yet so headstrong and talented, that it seems impossible for her to be the woman behind the man. Not that she didn't try. > >As for gay men, just listen to Man to Man or Free Man in Paris or Two Grey Rooms. Joni is capable of translating a variety of experiences into song using empathy. > >Liza answered the question about why she was a gay icon, "Because they have good taste!" That definitely applies here. > >Betsy > >> What would you say is the percentage of lesbian and gay purple on this list? >> take a guess >> >> And, >> Why are so many gay people attracted to joni? >> >> Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 04:45:45 +0100 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Queer, if you ask me njc Anita, I think you got the lyrics to 'Ode To A Gym Teacher' spot on! Hilarious song, and the original recording was prefaced with a funny story about a broken piece of a baby blue ruler ... heh. (Actually, here's the entire recording, including the story: http://youtu.be/pT_wmo3O9zM) Olivia Records was a HUGE find for me when I was coming out in 1980-81. I was 21, and suddenly there was all this music, a lot of it pretty damned good, written and sung by women like me (except that I don't write music or lyrics or sing publicly, lol). It was nothing short of a revelation, and it felt like I'd found a world of women who understood a whole lot of what I was feeling and trying to figure out. It was very empowering music at the time. While not a lesbian (as far as I know, anyway), Bonnie Raitt was very supportive of Olivia Records and she played and sang on a number of Olivia recordings. These days, some of the younger lesbians will tease us "dykes of a certain age" when we drag out the Olivia tunes, but things have changed, thankfully. While there is still a lot of work to be done on the equality front, younger lesbians (and gay men, as well as bisexuals and the transgendered) have a much better support system in place today. At least that's how it seems to me. I am grateful for that, for them, for my peers, for myself. It's still hard to come out for too many people in too many places, but we're getting there, and a hat should be tipped to our straight allies for their support, as well. As for giving up on relationships ... nah. Not really. I'm just taking a long (and well deserved) break. Hope you feel better soon, Anita! Lori Dotzheim ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1725 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------