From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1689 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 13 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1689 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Pitchfork review [Susan Tierney McNamara ] emails from me - please delete them [Em ] My top 15 ["Eaton, Shari" ] Re: My top 15 [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] youtube finds ["Eaton, Shari" ] Another Box Set review [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: My top 15 ["Eaton, Shari" ] Sporcle game [Betsy ] RE: CeeLo's version of River [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #1674 [Anita G ] Re: CeeLo's version of River [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Pitchfork review [Bob Muller ] Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #1683 [Cindy Casey ] Re: Covers 74 [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Quibbles about Crosby, njc [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:45:59 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Pitchfork review That's a great observation about RLJ, Bob ... and I see a lot of artists who were influenced but don't necessarily get to Joni's level. Good points. Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Bob Muller [mailto:scjoniguy@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 7:07 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Michel BYRNE; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Pitchfork review Well, let's remember that the word "influence" is pretty broad. I would think that almost everyone who heard Joni in their formative artistic creative periods, long or short they may be, couldn't help but be influenced by her. I don't necessarily think that means they are going to write like her, lyrics or music. Even trying to work at that level would be oppressive. But if it means you're inspired to create, pick up a guitar or a paintbrush for that matter, than it works. Having said that, Ani uses a mess of alternate tunings and writes lots of naked truth songs about love and politics. Her writing is very honest and candid. She's constantly changing who she works with, how her sound is defined, etc. I don't know that ANYTHING she's done can be traced to a particular Joni song, but I see a lot of influence. And I always saw Rickie Lee as being HEAVILY influenced by Laura Nyro, by Joni not so much. And last sidebar comment - keep in mind that the average Pitchefork reader is more than half our ages. Not a bad thing, and I visit the site a lot because they cover the indie and cutting edge stuff pretty good. I was very surprised to see that they even gave this collection any print. Bob From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Michel BYRNE >; "joni@smoe.org" > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:38 PM Subject: RE: Pitchfork review I agree with you ... I always scratched my head at Joni comparisons ... even Ricky Lee Jones, who I adore, does not strike me as Joni-like (except for the beret of course). I see Joni as a composer much like the Beatles, orchestral songs, even if it's just her and her guitar. I really like kd lang but her songwriting is not at that level. She is more of a crooner, like Frank Sinatra or Roy Orbison. But Joni ... I guess I just have to go back to what Elvis Costello said about her when describing Shades of Scarlett Conquering ... "You know the line in 'Shades of Scarlet Conquering'- 'Dressed in stolen clothes she stands / Cast-iron and frail / With her impossibly gentle hands / And her blood-red fingernails'? If many songwriters wrote a description as good as that in their whole careers, they would be blessed- and there are five or six lines that good in that one song! It's not just that she has no rivals among female singer-songwriters. She has very few peers among any songwriters." [Vanity Fair - 1997] Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Michel BYRNE Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:29 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Pitchfork review I enjoyed this review, though the dismissal of Mingus as a dilettante's effort is disappointing, and the criticism of Crosby's production of STAS as 'intrusive' is a bit bizarre. But the introductory comment about Joni's massive influence got me wondering: what Joni influence do JMDLers recognise in other artists' music-- in terms of actual musical style, not simply general inspiration or 'confessional' writing style?... I'm she's held in great respect by fellow musicians, but I've always had trouble *hearing* her influence in other people's music. The only examples I can think of (but my knowledge of contemporary music is fairly limited) are k.d.lang's C&S-style stacked harmonies in the Ingenue album, and the guitar work in a McAlmont & Butler song called Blue. B. Anyway, just wondering if anyone had any suggestions... Best to all Michel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:41:36 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: emails from me - please delete them hey all, if you get an email from me (not to JMDL list, but to your personal email address), please just delete it. It is a hack that I got from a friend. I've changed my passwords (again) and am hoping this will fix the situation. thx and sorry for the hassle. Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:24:06 -0800 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: My top 15 I could spend forever trying to arrange these in order from best to least best. I couldn't even narrow it down to 10. This is the closest I could come to finalizing this exercise. My all time favorites... I'm also detailing the lyrics within each song that I most swoon over. 1. The Arrangement "Racing cars, whisky bars, no one cares who you really are." 2. Judgement of the Moon and Stars "You've got to shake your fist at lightening now. You've got to roar like forest fire. You've got to spread your life like blazes all across the sky. They're gonna aim the hoses on ya. Show 'em you won't expire. Not till you burn up every passion.Not even when you die." 3. For the Roses "The caressing rev of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns." "The lights go down and it's just you up there, getting them to feel like that." 4. Just Like This Train "Old man sleeping on his bags. Women with that teased up kind of hair. Kids with the jitters in their legs and those wide, wide open stares." 5. That Song About the Midway "You were betting on some lover. You were shaking up the dice. And I thought I saw you cheating once or twice." 6. Edith and the Kingpin "The passed over girls are conferring. The man with the diamond ring is purring. All claws for now withdrawn." The lyrics in this entire song blow me away though. 7. Amelia "when I spotted six jet planes, leaving six white vapor trails across the bleak terrain. It was the hexagram of the heavens. It was the strings of my guitar. Amelia, it was just a false alarm." 8. The Dawntreader "Seabird I have seen you fly above the pilings. I am smiling at your circles in the air. I will come and sit by you while he lies sleeping. Fold your pleat wings I have got some dreams to share." 9. The Fiddle and the Drum "You say we have turned, like the enemies you've earned. But can remember all the good things you are." 10. Hejira "You know it never has been easy. Whether you do or you do not resign. Whether you travel the breadth of extremities or stick to some straighter lines." "I know no one's going to show me everything. We all come and go alone. Each so deep and so superficial. Between the forceps and the stone." 11. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter And he says: "Snakes along the railroad tracks" He says, "Eagles in jet trails" He says, "Coils around feathers and talons on scales Gravel under the belly plates" He says, "Wind in the Wings" He says, "Big bird dragging its tail in the dust Snake kite flying on a string" "What strange prizes these battles bring These hectic joys these weary blues Puffed up and strutting when I think I win Down and shaken when I think I lose" 12. Silky Veils of Ardor "It's just in dreams we fly. In my dreams we fly." 13. Jericho Just like Jericho I said "Let these walls come tumbling down" I said it like I finally found the way To keep the good feelings alive I said it like it was something to strive for 14. Barangrill "Well some say it's in service They say "humble makes pure" You're hoping it's near Folly 'Cause you're headed that way for sure" 15. Sweet Bird "Behind our eyes Calendars of our lives Circled with compromise Sweet bird of time and change You must be laughing Up on your feathers laughing" "No one knows They can never get that close Guesses at most Guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching" Lots n lots of Joni, Shari ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:04:42 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: My top 15 1. The Arrangement "Racing cars, whisky bars, no one cares who you really are."> What grabs me in this one are the lyrics right out of the gate - "You could have been more than a name on the door" gets right to the point. Also have to add that Jenny Goodspeed's take on this one is AMAZING. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:47:55 -0800 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: youtube finds My goodness how she glows here. She's singing Play Little David for the TV Series Mon Pays, Mes Chansons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gmtwCergLY A live performance in 2000 of Ludwig's Tune. I love her storytelling at the beginning and the full orchestral backing makes for a unique sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWuAdV1gPkY&feature=relmfu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:52:46 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Another Box Set review http://tinyurl.com/aj9t92v From Bob Mersereau, a veteran Canadian broadcaster. Obviously not much of a STAS fan. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:23:38 -0800 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: My top 15 It's such a spooky song. I love it through and through. I did tangle with choosing the intro line as well but these are the lyrics that draw the most imagery in my mind and captures the essence of the song for me. On Nov 13, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > 1. The Arrangement > "Racing cars, whisky bars, no one cares who you really are."> > > What grabs me in this one are the lyrics right out of the gate - "You could have been more than a name on the door" gets right to the point. Also have to add that Jenny Goodspeed's take on this one is AMAZING. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:14:55 -0800 From: Betsy Subject: Sporcle game Quite fun to play. I feel like an obsessed fan, though. It's entirely possible to speak exclusively in Joni phrases and only sound half crazy. But I told you when I met you that I was crazy. Betsy > ------------------------------------------------- > sporcle.com/games/joniphile/joni_mitchell_phrases > > It was fun to make. Hope also to play. > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:58:12 +0000 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: CeeLo's version of River You are a trooper Bob! That's amazing. I scratch my head trying to figure where the heck I'm going to get the time I want to spend on Joni craft, but you put me to shame! :) River is amazing ... I have to put it up there in the top 5 of Joni's most timeless songs ... Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:06 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: CeeLo's version of River No worries, Sue - it's a long way away from getting released from me...It's actually slated for Volume 173, and I'm just at #154 in terms of what I've released - like I say, I have a lot of backlog! It's a very soulful version, don't see how anyone wouldn't like it. Between that one and Tracy Thorn's high-profile release this year, Joni's royalty bells will get a healthy jingle. Bob From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: "joni@smoe.org" > Date: 11/12/2012 03:43 PM Subject: CeeLo's version of River Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org ________________________________ I had a free mpg download from Amazon and decided I wanted to hear this version of River ... (I should have checked to see if it was on one of the recent covers downloads, sorry Bob) ... but I have to say it's a very faithful version ... I think the piano player (does Ceelo play the piano?) downloaded Dave's transcription from jm.com!!! :) I have to love Ceelo, for no other reason than the song Crazy, which I think is awesome. :) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:25:09 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #1674 On 11/11/2012, Catherine McKay wrote: There are many Joni > lyrics that are sometimes difficult to understand, but they always make > sense. I thought I would emerge from the "deathly quiet" to just have a little think about what it is to make 'sense.' What I remember fondly on the list has been the vast array of meanings that folk have taken from Joni's lyrics. I remembered in particular a thread related to what 'sense' people made of 'Sweet Bird' . The discussion uncovered a myriad of different meanings, some of which had all kinds of sense and non-sense. Great lyrics and poems do tend to lend themselves to multi-facted interpretations, I guess. I am playing with the idea of whether or not when we read them they have to make 'sense' at the time. Certainly, what I like about Joni's work is returning to it and finding something else I hadn't found in the words when I first them read them years ago. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:06:03 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: CeeLo's version of River No worries, Sue - it's a long way away from getting released from me...It's actually slated for Volume 173, and I'm just at #154 in terms of what I've released - like I say, I have a lot of backlog! It's a very soulful version, don't see how anyone wouldn't like it. Between that one and Tracy Thorn's high-profile release this year, Joni's royalty bells will get a healthy jingle. Bob From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: "joni@smoe.org" Date: 11/12/2012 03:43 PM Subject: CeeLo's version of River Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org I had a free mpg download from Amazon and decided I wanted to hear this version of River ... (I should have checked to see if it was on one of the recent covers downloads, sorry Bob) ... but I have to say it's a very faithful version ... I think the piano player (does Ceelo play the piano?) downloaded Dave's transcription from jm.com!!! :) I have to love Ceelo, for no other reason than the song Crazy, which I think is awesome. :) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:10 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Pitchfork review Well, let's remember that the word "influence" is pretty broad. I would think that almost everyone who heard Joni in their formative artistic creative periods, long or short they may be, couldn't help but be influenced by her. I don't necessarily think that means they are going to write like her, lyrics or music. Even trying to work at that level would be oppressive. But if it means you're inspired to create, pick up a guitar or a paintbrush for that matter, than it works. Having said that, Ani uses a mess of alternate tunings and writes lots of naked truth songs about love and politics. Her writing is very honest and candid. She's constantly changing who she works with, how her sound is defined, etc. I don't know that ANYTHING she's done can be traced to a particular Joni song, but I see a lot of influence. And I always saw Rickie Lee as being HEAVILY influenced by Laura Nyro, by Joni not so much. And last sidebar comment - keep in mind that the average Pitchefork reader is more than half our ages. Not a bad thing, and I visit the site a lot because they cover the indie and cutting edge stuff pretty good. I was very surprised to see that they even gave this collection any print. Bob ________________________________ From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: Michel BYRNE ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:38 PM Subject: RE: Pitchfork review I agree with you ... I always scratched my head at Joni comparisons ... even Ricky Lee Jones, who I adore, does not strike me as Joni-like (except for the beret of course). I see Joni as a composer much like the Beatles, orchestral songs, even if it's just her and her guitar. I really like kd lang but her songwriting is not at that level. She is more of a crooner, like Frank Sinatra or Roy Orbison. But Joni ... I guess I just have to go back to what Elvis Costello said about her when describing Shades of Scarlett Conquering ... "You know the line in 'Shades of Scarlet Conquering'- 'Dressed in stolen clothes she stands / Cast-iron and frail / With her impossibly gentle hands / And her blood-red fingernails'? If many songwriters wrote a description as good as that in their whole careers, they would be blessed- and there are five or six lines that good in that one song! It's not just that she has no rivals among female singer-songwriters. She has very few peers among any songwriters." [Vanity Fair - 1997] Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Michel BYRNE Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:29 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Pitchfork review I enjoyed this review, though the dismissal of Mingus as a dilettante's effort is disappointing, and the criticism of Crosby's production of STAS as 'intrusive' is a bit bizarre. But the introductory comment about Joni's massive influence got me wondering: what Joni influence do JMDLers recognise in other artists' music-- in terms of actual musical style, not simply general inspiration or 'confessional' writing style?... I'm she's held in great respect by fellow musicians, but I've always had trouble *hearing* her influence in other people's music. The only examples I can think of (but my knowledge of contemporary music is fairly limited) are k.d.lang's C&S-style stacked harmonies in the Ingenue album, and the guitar work in a McAlmont & Butler song called Blue. B. Anyway, just wondering if anyone had any suggestions... Best to all Michel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:23:17 -0600 From: Cindy Casey Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2012 #1683 Words of wisdom Joni has taught me and I quote "Never read your reviews" ~Joni Mitchell What an incredible woman that Joni! I reached out to help her but it has turned out much the opposite. She has helped me. Cindy Sent from my iPad. On Nov 11, 2012, at 7:34 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > JMDL Digest Sunday, November 11 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1683 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Review of Joni boxset [Catherine McKay ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 05:31:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Review of Joni boxset > > I guess I just don't have the patience to read on, then. > > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Shari Eaton >> To: "" >> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:56:34 PM >> Subject: Re: Review of Joni boxset >> >> You're right in correcting me .. as I reread, I see the praise. I wouldn't make a good famous person. I'm obviously on the defense straight off. >> >> *holding off on burning down the Pitchfork offices. >> >> : ) > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1683 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:16:07 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Covers 74 Thanks for that, Michel...since you brought up the subject, that recording comes from a 45 single release from 1969. She did the translation herself. She does have a website: http://www.retrojeunesse60.com/christine.charbonneau.html It's in French which means I can't read it but you might find it of interest. Marie LaForet also released a French-language version in 1969. Bob From: Michel BYRNE To: Date: 11/12/2012 04:04 PM Subject: Covers 74 Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org Thanks once again, Bob. The following is pure trivia, but may be of interest to one or two JMDLers... I was intrigued that the French BSN is a very different translation from the one popularised by Nana Mouskouri. It turns out (thank you Wikipedia) that Christine Charbonneau is a fellow Canadian, from Montreal, born in 1943 a few weeks before Joni, and who was also featured in the 1966 Canadian song TV series Mon Pays, Mes Chansons (the one where Joni sings Little David and other songs in the middle of cornfields). She is also a painter, and a (published) poet. Stange synergies... Best to all Michel - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:56:18 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Quibbles about Crosby, njc WHAT??? On Nov 4, 2012, at 6:06 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: On page 73, Katherine Monk said, > In October 1967, a burned-out rock > star named David Crosby... I don't think he was a burn-out in '67. Maybe later, when he was addicted and his wife nearly left him. But even then, he got a good song out of it and came back from the brink. Later, on page 97, Katherine said, > Mitchell's "Woodstock" captured the > zeitgeist of the Summer if Love so > completely that even Crosby- a > highly accomplished and altogether > prolific songwriter... Maybe it's just me. I wouldn't say that Crosby is either highly accomplished or prolific. What is your opinion? Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1689 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------