From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1647 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 1 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1647 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Parallelograms [Shari Eaton ] Shelagh McDonald sampler [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni and Buffy [Catherine McKay ] Re: Shelagh McDonald and Linda Perhacs [Catherine McKay ] Happy 50th! [Betsy ] Re: Taylor vs. Joni [Catherine McKay ] Re: Shelagh McDonald and Linda Perhacs ["Eaton, Shari" ] RE: Joni and Buffy ["Robert Sartorius" ] Re: Les Irving Drops a Bomb on the JMDL! [Michael Paz ] We Are Stardust! New Joni Mitchell Album in the works? [Jack Merkel Subject: Parallelograms You can download the album here: https://grey.box.com/s/tenq09xy604zmxpif5im Seems Linda doesn't like the Joni association. PARALLELOGRAMS is the unquestioned queen of the hill of female psychedelic albums. Fans of the genre are as unanimous in their praise of this album as mainstream critics are for Joni Mitchells BLUE, almost to the point where its unthinkable that anything else can be better. The Mitchell comparison is an important one here, whether it accurately describes the music or not. Every American female folk-influenced singer/songwriter is immediately compared to Mitchell (and British singer/songwriters to Sandy Denny), and, invariably dismissed as an inferior copy. Perhacs one and only album suffered this very fate. If critics wouldnt take anyone but Joni seriously, why would they bother with this hippie variation of her style? Its a curious form of self-conscious sexism on the part of 70s rock critics (some of which were female) that as long as they gave good reviews to Joni Mitchell, and occasionally Carole King or the rare oddball like Dory Previn or Essra Mohawk, they could ignore and dismiss every other woman in the business. Even thirty years later, we have John Mellencamp on TV saying (Im paraphrasing) Im sorry to have to say this but when it comes to women in rock, theres only one, Joni. (This comes from an overrated buffoon whose own backup violinist, Lisa Germano, has released four or five albums that blow away anything his sorry ass ever did). http://www.timelesslindaperhacs.com/About.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Shelagh McDonald sampler I've uploaded four songs to yousendit. I think some of these sound Joni-like. These songs are from albums released in 1970-71, so later than Joni's early albums. Just thought I'd share this for anyone who's interested. It's not just the guitar-playing but some of the lyrics themselves that sound Joni-like to me, but I think that those kinds of lyrics were also part of the whole hippy/hippie ethos. Innocent but wise, back to the garden, all that sterf. https://www.yousendit.com/download/WUJiV285R0ZGR0Z1a3NUQw ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:27:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni and Buffy Listening to it now, Les. You're not off base at all. The guitar playing in particular is very Joni-like, so maybe Joni's playing is actually Buffy-like. "The old man's Lament" sounds Irish or Scottish, along the lines of "The great silkie of Suleskerry" (or Shool Skerry, or Skule Skerry, because I've seen it spelled any number of ways. "You're gonna need somebody on your bond." Now there's an oldie but goodie. I borrowed a library book years ago that had this song in it (as one chosen by Buffy). I had never heard it sung, so the way I did it was quite different. This songs sounds more delta blues. It has that funky slide, kind of like what Joni does in "This flight tonight." Another singer from back-then whose guitar work (assuming she's the guitar player) is a Scottish singer, Shelagh McDonald, whose music also reminds me a bit of Nick Drake, Sandy Denny and sometimes Judy Collins. I'll upload some stuff to either Dropbox or YouSendIt if there's interest - right now, Dropbox is giving me a hard time. >________________________________ > From: Les Irvin >To: Joni List >Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:43:29 AM >Subject: Joni and Buffy > >Joniphiles - > >As we know through interviews over the years, Joni took the train across Canada to see her "hero" Buffy Saint-Marie at the Mariposa festival in 1964. During that trip she wrote her first song. When Joni did begin writing songs, it seems to me that she came out of nowhere with no obvious influences. By that I mean - I don't hear Dylan or Woody Guthrie or other obvious "folk" influences in her early writing, even though she largely came through the "folk scare" scene of the early and mid 60s with all the others. > >Recently, I bought Buffy Saint-Marie's first album, released in 1964. As Joni's hero, this would have been what Joni was listening to at the time she began writing. For me, it was a revelation hearing this album and for the first time ever, I thought "Aha!" I can hear now what may have influenced Joni's early, mostly unreleased songwriting. More so the guitar playing (Buffy used open tunings) than lyrically, but to me, a distinct influence for Joni - perhaps the only obvious influence. > >I'd be interested in other's takes on this. Here's a 3-song sampler from Buffy's first album: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Buffy1964.zip > >Thoughts anyone? Am I way off base? > >Thanks, >Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Shelagh McDonald and Linda Perhacs Nice music! She has (had?) a lovely voice and it sounds like she also did her own harmony tracks a la Joan. "Parallelograms" sounds very experimental, especially the 2nd half. I had never heard of her before, so thanks for sharing. Shelagh McDonald also did the disappearing act, only to show up years later, when she found out people were looking for her. >________________________________ > From: "Eaton, Shari" >To: Joni List >Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:55:16 PM >Subject: Re: Shelagh McDonald sampler > >Really enjoying these exchanges. I've always thought Joni continued where Linda Perhacs left off. Linda went missing for years. Kind of a bizarre story. > >Chimacum Rain >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb59WCJTs_Q > >Parallelograms >http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2007/11/parallelograms.mp3 > > >I have an album of hers at home. I'll upload when I get there. > >Lots of Joni, >Shari > > > >On Oct 31, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > >> I've uploaded four songs to yousendit. I think some of these sound Joni-like. These songs are from albums released in 1970-71, so later than Joni's early albums. Just thought I'd share this for anyone who's interested. It's not just the guitar-playing but some of the lyrics themselves that sound Joni-like to me, but I think that those kinds of lyrics were also part of the whole hippy/hippie ethos. Innocent but wise, back to the garden, all that sterf. >> >> >> https://www.yousendit.com/download/WUJiV285R0ZGR0Z1a3NUQw ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:07:15 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Shelagh McDonald and Linda Perhacs Cindy Vickery gave me a copy of that Linda Perhacs record way back when, I really dig it and see a lot of similarities in terms of the complexities of the music. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:33:59 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Joni and Buffy No, you're not off base. I hear it too. I found samples on Amazon for the album you described. Released in 1964, it was called "It's My Way". I bought it yesterday, thinking it's an addition to my Joni library. It just might be a cornerstone of Joni's career. > From: Les Irvin Recently, I bought Buffy Saint-Marie's first album, released in 1964. As Joni's hero, this would have been what Joni was listening to at the time she began writing. For me, it was a revelation hearing this album and for the first time ever, I thought "Aha!" I can hear now what may have influenced Joni's early, mostly unreleased songwriting. More so the guitar playing (Buffy used open tunings) than lyrically, but to me, a distinct influence for Joni - perhaps the only obvious influence. I'd be interested in other's takes on this. Here's a 3-song sampler from Buffy's first album:https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Buffy1964.zip Thoughts anyone? Am I way off base? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 10:41:28 -0700 From: Betsy Subject: Happy 50th! Anyone celebrating Joni's 50th anniversary of being paid to perform music? Betsy NP Carey (BBC) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:42:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Taylor vs. Joni Good perspective. Here I was thinking that Joni had written and recorded a lot of her good songs by that age. I've heard a few of Taylor Swift's songs. They don't do much for me, and they're much more in the pop vein, so it's hard to compare, but I will give her the benefit of the doubt. For one thing, times are very different now and we can't expect the music to be the same, if the times are not. And for another thing, I haven't been 17 for a LOOOOOONG time! >________________________________ > From: Paul Ivice >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:45:52 PM >Subject: Taylor vs. Joni > >Catherine McKay wrote: >I've heard a few Taylor Swift songs because a friend of my daughter's is a >fan >and made my daughter go with her to her last concert here in Toronto. >Although >I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I haven't given the songs >on "Red" a listen, so I suppose I should before mouthing off, but I really >don't think Ms Swift can hold a candle to Joni and that she has a LONG way to >go before ever (if ever) coming close to the maturity, poetry and musicality >of Ms Mitchell. > >I am not a fan of Taylor Swift, but I am a fan of fairness. >Ms. Swift willl turn 23 in December. Joni, who will be 69 next week, did not >release her first album until she was 25. >So if you are going to make any comparisons between the songwriting abilities >of Taylor Swift and Joni Mitchell, you >should compare Taylor's work to date only with songs Joni had written by the >same age, or at most perhaps the songs on her first album. >I would suggest that if you can ignore everything Joni wrote later and do not >know of the progression she made through the various genres >of music over the years, the comparison is not so unfavorable to Swift. >I would note that Joni thought many of the songs she had written by the end of >1966, when she was 23, might not have been good enough to release on an >album. > >Paul Ivice > > > > >Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:26:48 -0700 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: Shelagh McDonald and Linda Perhacs Linda also has that knack for imagery and mood as well. I happened upon Sibylle Baier just after looking up Linda on youtube .. really nice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-r1b2H9FKs&feature=related On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Cindy Vickery gave me a copy of that Linda Perhacs record way back when, I really dig it and see a lot of similarities in terms of the complexities of the music. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 10:55:16 -0700 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: Shelagh McDonald sampler Really enjoying these exchanges. I've always thought Joni continued where Linda Perhacs left off. Linda went missing for years. Kind of a bizarre story. Chimacum Rain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb59WCJTs_Q Parallelograms http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2007/11/parallelograms.mp3 I have an album of hers at home. I'll upload when I get there. Lots of Joni, Shari On Oct 31, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > I've uploaded four songs to yousendit. I think some of these sound Joni-like. These songs are from albums released in 1970-71, so later than Joni's early albums. Just thought I'd share this for anyone who's interested. It's not just the guitar-playing but some of the lyrics themselves that sound Joni-like to me, but I think that those kinds of lyrics were also part of the whole hippy/hippie ethos. Innocent but wise, back to the garden, all that sterf. > > > https://www.yousendit.com/download/WUJiV285R0ZGR0Z1a3NUQw ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:50:41 -0400 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Joni and Buffy Les wrote" "Recently, I bought Buffy Saint-Marie's first album, released in 1964. As Joni's hero, this would have been what Joni was listening to at the time she began writing. For me, it was a revelation hearing this album and for the first time ever, I thought "Aha!" I can hear now what may have influenced Joni's early, mostly unreleased songwriting. More so the guitar playing (Buffy used open tunings) than lyrically, but to me, a distinct influence for Joni - perhaps the only obvious influence." I'd be interested in other's takes on this. Here's a 3-song sampler from Buffy's first album: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8377478/Buffy1964.zip Thoughts anyone? Am I way off base?" Thanks for the sampler, Les. I enjoyed it. I think you may be on to something - certainly not off base IMO. Of the three songs in the sampler, the first (Old Mand's Lament, which I assume is an old Irish ballad) reminds me very much of an early Joni song (or perhaps parts of a couple), the name of which escapes me. (The guitar intro reminded me of Eastern Rain, which is to say, vice versa). The second song did not strike a chord with me, but the lyric from the the third cut (It's My Way) was defiantly independent and, in that sense, might well have struck a chord with Joni (Just Like Me? Born To Take the Highway?). Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:52:18 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Les Irving Drops a Bomb on the JMDL! LMAO!!!! Good one! Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Cypress Recording Services Paz Music Production 17 Waverly Place Destrehan, La. 70047 504-382-0343 Home Office-985-764-0395 On Oct 31, 2012, at 6:50 AM, Jack Merkel wrote: "Denver Colorado (AP) - After years of running one of the most beloved and respected fan forums on the web, Les Irving, a favorite son of Colorado, has stunned the community by selling the rights to the JMDL. Details of the transaction are still up in the air, but rumor has it that he agreed to sell the rights for a life time supply of mandolin strings. The new owners, the Jedi Masters Discussion List, wasted no time in putting out their first post. On Oct 30, 2012, at 7:28 > "LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A decade since George Lucas said "Star Wars" was finished on the big screen, a new trilogy under new ownership is destined for theaters after The Walt Disney Co. announced Tuesday that it was buying Lucasfilm Ltd. from him for $4.05 billion." > > Episode 7 is due in 2015. > > Details: > TinyURL.com/9ghctwq > > Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:24:29 -0700 From: "Eaton, Shari" Subject: Re: Subject: Joni and Buffy Wow Buffy is cool. I'm ashamed to say I never gave her a listen! I can see how Joni could gain a lot of courage from watching her perform. On Oct 31, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > BTW, Buffy St. Marie was born a Cree Indian, in Saskatchewan. She's been married and divorced three times. > > Wikipedia entry: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_Sainte-Marie > > Jim L'Hommedieu > np: Human Wheels by John Mellencamp > also now playing: the doorbell as neighborhood kids look for Trick-or-Treat candy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:51:59 -0500 From: Jack Merkel Subject: We Are Stardust! New Joni Mitchell Album in the works? In what appears to be a historic pairing of two cultural icons, rumor has it that Joni Mitchell has decided to reinterpret some of her classic songs from the past, and put a fresh spin on them by incorporating references to the popular Star Wars movies. Never one to rest on her laurels, or shy away from going in unexpected directions, Joni cited the recent sale of the JMDL to the Jedi Masters Discussion List as her inspiration for this project. Bolstered by the recent surge in interest for all things Star Wars, this collaboration could prove to be as popular with her fans as her joint effort with Charles Mingus. Backed by a 70 piece orchestra conducted by John Williams, this record has mega hit written all over it. No release date has been announced. Complete song listing: Urge For Cloning A Woman of Hoth and Mind You Turn Me On, I'm C-3PO The Dry Cleaner From Naboo (No Regrets) Chewbacca Judgement of the Moon and Death Star Big Yellow Starfighter The Ewok That Lived in Lindsey Slouching Towards Coruscant The Last Time I Saw Jar Jar Furry Sings the Blues ( The Wookie's Theme Song) Obi and Marlena Edith and the Dark Lord Palpatine Plains Darth Vader's Reckless Daughter Two Moons at the Window Sith Kills Flat Tires You Dream The Sire of Sorrow (Jabba's Sad Song) The Tatooine Prophesy (Pick Up Your Arms) Dancin' Clone The Only Droid in Town Little Green (Yoda's Theme Song) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1647 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------