From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1528 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 7 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1528 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni Covers, Volume 153 Medium Rare [Mark-Leon Thorne ] RE: Last Great Joni song(s) - Cherokee Louise (et al) ["Robert Sartorius"] Re: Dylan and Great Joni Songs now Cherokee Louise ["Mark" Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 153 Medium Rare Hi Catherine, I was only aware of Elixir's self titled album. Katie Noonan was one of the performers at the Joni Mitchell tribute concert at the Sydney Opera House which I reviewed for JM.com. She was the highlight of the show for me. Katie stood out like a beacon among the seven performers. Katie's jazz take on Goodbye Yellow Brick Road is a nice break on the album too. Mark in Sydney On 07/10/2012, at 6:00 PM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Joni Covers, Volume 153 Medium Rare ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 17:06:50 +1000 From: "Pat Boland" Subject: Moon In The Mirror Here's a mystery for you. You're probably familiar with 'Moon at The Window' but you may have never heard of 'Moon In The Mirror', As far as I know, its gone. Maybe her most requested at the time, 1966, and yet we have no chords, no melody... all we have left are these beautiful lyrics... a poem by Joni... ghost of a song... Are you ready? Moon In The Mirrorby Joni MitchellMoon in the mirrorWon't you stay awhile tonight?All things of beautyAre too soon out of sightI know it's a selfish pleaYou must light the hearts of more than meThere's a girl at her windowNow she's trying to catch your eyeBut oh, pretty strangerYou must keep on passing byMoon in the mirrorI don't know youJust a reflectionOf kisses and whispers and indigo skiesMoon in the mirrorLook below youMoon's looking backAnd they're loving and longing and telling no liesMoon in the mirrorI will ask you one more timeNot for a reasonAnd not for a rhymeBut please tell me if you canHave you seen a moonlit man?He's so very like youYou could see him from afarPerhaps he's misplaced moonbeamOr a banished starMoon in the mirrorHe's so like youLight up the roomFor an hour; a smile or the beat of my heartOh how my heart tried to fight himFight against mirrorsOf moonlight or lovelightYou're lost from the start,From the start. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 14:08:52 -0400 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Last Great Joni song(s) - Cherokee Louise (et al) First, I would like to second Gene's compliments to Mark for his review of Cherokee Louise. Mark humbles himself when he apologizes that he merely states the obvious, but doing so in words that elicit appreciation from others who have shared those feelings but have not quite been able to express them is, well, rather Joniesque. The last times I felt a sense of "Joni greatness" in her songs were from Night Ride Home and Turbulent Indigo. I just have not felt that anything great happened in TTT and Shine (although I am partial to "One Day Last Summer" as a mood piece - somewhat "Canonesque", and it might work as background music for, say, the PGA championship, but I digress). For me, a great song must be great musically and great lyrically. IMO, the great songs of NRH were Cherokee Louise and Slouching Toward Bethlehem. In saying that, I would hypothesize that Joni agrees with me - they were both included in Travelogue, for example. That said, I could make a secondary case for Passion Play which, with its plaintive lyric and complemenatary melody, might strike a particularly poignant chord with certain listeners. By way of anecdote, one year I sent NRH as a thank you present to my family's ex-next-door-neighbor (before he got rich), Charles Dolan (of Cablevision, Knicks, Rangers, MadisonSquare Garden, Radio City Music Hall, etc.), whose 4th of July parties - featuring spectacular fireworks from a barge in Oyster Bay Cove off his backyard - are famous on Long Island. The pretense for my gift was the title song, but I secretly hoped that he would give Passion Play a second listen. It is a haunter, much like The Arrangement, which my Dad cited as the song from LOTC that grabbed his attention when I played that album for him in 1970 (and which Joni included in "Misses"). The other songs on NRH are likable, but not great IMO. In particular, NRH and Come In From the Cold are, essentially, 1-4-5 songs - accessible on their face, and "popular" in tone, but really not that special musically. They're good listening (though the latter is way too long), but they're not great. And, they could have been written by another songwriter. I have listened to the case made for Two Grey Rooms, which is also a good one and on which Joni bestowed the "last song" place of honor, but it does not quite get to "great" for me, either musically or lyrically. I think TI is a denser, deeper album than NRH. More of its songs have that Joni "it" factor - nobody else could have written many of them, including the title song, Last Chance Lost, Sex Kills, Yvette in English and Sire of Sorrow. Also, there is another haunter - Magdelene Laundries - with its ripe 1-4-5 chord structure and melody to soften its painful lyric. And the lyric of Borderline is one of Joni's very best, capturing themes both universal and timeless, like Circle Game. And Sunny Sunday is a lovely opener. I am not a huge fan of Not To Blame, but it is a tribute to this award winning album that such a strong song would take "last place" among its songs. There are excellent Joni songs in abundance here, but which ones are "great"? I would agree with Joni that Sire of Sorrow and Sex Kills, which she also featured in Travelogue, are the ones worthy of that title. Among the "close but not quite" candidates, because of their adventurous, rhythmical music, I prefer LCL, TI and YIE to ML and Borderline. Bottom line - Joni has already told you which ones she thinks were the last of her great songs. She produced Travelogue. I'm inclined to agree with her. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 18:56:42 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Dylan and Great Joni Songs now Cherokee Louise I agree that 'Cherokee Louise' stands up alongside the best of Joni's songs from any of her stages of artistic progression. For me Joni really captures that confusion that we all went through when our bodies and our psyches began to change from those tree-climbing innocents into something that is not quite yet adulthood. The verse where she says 'ever since we turned thirteen it's like a mine field walking through the door/going out you get the third degree and coming in you get the third world war' is brilliant. Thirteen, third degree, third world war, mine field are put together so perfectly in those two lines and metaphorically express with clarity and honesty the bafflement caused by what seems like an abrupt shift in the relationship dynamic with parents. Their childlike nature has not departed from those thirteen year olds who still put pennies on railroad tracks and then 'jump and run like fools' to marvel at 'no heads or tails' on the 'lucky prize'. But something has changed that makes their parents into what seem a bit like prison guards. The kids are also grappling with changes in their own natures that they have no way of understanding. Cherokee Louise is the unfortunate child who is without what the others don't realize is actually protection on their parents' part. She is the victim of betrayal of trust and a failed system, forced into a sordid, warped initiation into something she has no cope mechanism for. Unjustly persecuted, she ends up 'hiding in this tunnel in the Broadway Bridge' I love the imagery in the song - 'the place where you can stand and press your hand like it was bubble bath in dust piled high as me' - is one of my favorites. Do they still make powdered bubble bath? Anyway, I babble away and far too often do nothing but state the obvious. It's a great song that works on many different levels. The movement of the guitar line evokes kids skipping or jumping rope but it has a melancholy sound to it as well. Perfect fit of melody, words and music. Classic Joni Mitchell. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 7:51 AM To: Michel BYRNE ; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Dylan and Great Joni Songs Re: the Dylan/plagiarisim thing, I don't really remember what she said or the context, because context means a lot, but I agree with you about Joni's sometimes being a little (or at least coming across as) too opinionated and too quick to judge. I like honesty but there's a line between being honest and being hurtful. In any case, great artists steal from others all the time. From what Joni is quoted as saying about others, it seems that she doesn't care for too many other artists at all and I don't like it when anyone disses others. I also agree with you about "Cherokee Louise". I think Joni did a wonderful job of capturing what it was (is) like to be a girl at that age - still innocent and adventurous but having been suddenly exposed to the dark underbelly of the adult world. She captures that feeling in both the lyrics and the music. I do prefer the original version. I can't really get into "Travelogue" all that much, except in small doses. >________________________________ > From: Michel BYRNE >To: joni@smoe.org >Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 9:21:04 AM >Subject: Dylan and Great Joni Songs > >Hi Shari, I'm sure you'll find quite a lot of correspondence on the 'Dylan a >plagiarist' comments in the jmdl archives. To be honest it's not an episode I >like to revisit: although the issues raised are fascinating (what's >'originality' in art, what's 'plagiarism', etc), the spirit in which Joni >seems to have made her comments was (to me) unpardonably mean, and seriously >dented my admiration for her. I don't follow the music press very closely, >but I've never come across any other musician so willing to publicly diss >fellow musicians. I'm not sure where Joni's extreme competitiveness comes from >(insecurity? but why?), but combined with her unwillingness (or inability) to >self-censure her opinions, it presents a very unpleasant public image-- which >isn't to deny her great charm and humour in other situations. > >But forgetting the contentious personality, the great music remains-- and can >I make a pitch for *Cherokee Louise* as one of her *great* songs? I totally >agree with folk's comments about 'Magdalene Laundries', but to me CL is an >even more amazing work of empathetic art. There she manages to get into the >skin not of an adult looking back on youth, but of a young teenager reflecting >on her 'coming of age' in the past year (through her friendship with an abuse >victim) -- the mix of childish memories (swaying in the branches, pennies >on >the rail) and premature adulthood (with a sense of the oppressiveness of >adults: parental control, the police, the abusive foster-dad) is perfectly >pitched and (imo) emotionally devastating. I love the guitar and ghostly >stacked vocals of the original (on NRH), but the orchestral version on >Travelogue is so beautiful too, especially the sad playful lines on the sax at >the very end (at least I think it's a sax), like children hopping, skipping >away into the distance. To me, Joni's genius in that song is equal to anything >she did earlier. > >Have been away or lurking for a long time, but thanks to you all for all the >discussions and reports, and Bob for his indefatigable providing of Joni >covers! >Michel ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1528 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------